xfrodobagginsx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"If I need faith in my believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father then I don't want to president with a dead faith, hence works are required."

I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand the "president with a dead faith" line, what does that mean, please?

---

Typos

If I need faith in my belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, then I don't want to present with a dead faith, hence works are required.

^^^was building on the understanding that faith without works….

---

So are you arguing that your works can mean anything?

---

Yes. Without a doubt. No works and only faith would obviously be a problem. It's clearly stated

As another example where the notion of once saved always saved falls short;


Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Maybe all the prior posts is more splitting hairs but it seems some posts are suggesting that all that is required is to believe / have faith

---

I think you are missing the point.

Look at your works. Which, do you think, is the most valuable to God? Which of them made Him decide you should go to Heaven, do you think?

Now before we go on, I will also say that Faith is not something that has merit in the way so many think.

For now, consider the verse: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy".

---

Yes of course. I will not Argue which works are sufficient or better, if any. Only that it is clear that faith without works is dead. We can "lose" our salvation through bad works or not doing God's will.

So yes, as you stated, and I agree, I'm not arguing which good works or how many. Only that something more than zero per the writings of God is required.

---

A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

The self righteousness is hilarious. You know you nailed Jesus to a tree right? Don't pretend to have a monopoly on theology. People far smarter than you have far better thought out arguments.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

Porteroso said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"If I need faith in my believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father then I don't want to president with a dead faith, hence works are required."

I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand the "president with a dead faith" line, what does that mean, please?

---

Typos

If I need faith in my belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, then I don't want to present with a dead faith, hence works are required.

^^^was building on the understanding that faith without works….

---

So are you arguing that your works can mean anything?

---

Yes. Without a doubt. No works and only faith would obviously be a problem. It's clearly stated

As another example where the notion of once saved always saved falls short;


Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Maybe all the prior posts is more splitting hairs but it seems some posts are suggesting that all that is required is to believe / have faith

---

I think you are missing the point.

Look at your works. Which, do you think, is the most valuable to God? Which of them made Him decide you should go to Heaven, do you think?

Now before we go on, I will also say that Faith is not something that has merit in the way so many think.

For now, consider the verse: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy".

---

Yes of course. I will not Argue which works are sufficient or better, if any. Only that it is clear that faith without works is dead. We can "lose" our salvation through bad works or not doing God's will.

So yes, as you stated, and I agree, I'm not arguing which good works or how many. Only that something more than zero per the writings of God is required.

---

A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

The self righteousness is hilarious. You know you nailed Jesus to a tree right? Don't pretend to have a monopoly on theology. People far smarter than you have far better thought out arguments.

---

Uh yeah, sounds like YOU are the one who is being self righteous. Salvation by Grace means that it's God's Work, not mine. It also means that you cannot lose your Salvation because it's of God, not me. Truth is truth whether you like it or not. And that was a snide comment, "People far smarter than you have far better thought out arguments". Oh really? I could care less what the so called smart people say. I care what the Bible says, so Chapter and Verse please. Back it up with Scripture or keep quiet.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

---

Frodo, you are still ducking the point.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"If I need faith in my believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father then I don't want to president with a dead faith, hence works are required."

I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand the "president with a dead faith" line, what does that mean, please?

---

Typos

If I need faith in my belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, then I don't want to present with a dead faith, hence works are required.

^^^was building on the understanding that faith without works….

---

So are you arguing that your works can mean anything?

---

Yes. Without a doubt. No works and only faith would obviously be a problem. It's clearly stated

As another example where the notion of once saved always saved falls short;


Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Maybe all the prior posts is more splitting hairs but it seems some posts are suggesting that all that is required is to believe / have faith

---

I think you are missing the point.

Look at your works. Which, do you think, is the most valuable to God? Which of them made Him decide you should go to Heaven, do you think?

Now before we go on, I will also say that Faith is not something that has merit in the way so many think.

For now, consider the verse: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy".

---

Yes of course. I will not Argue which works are sufficient or better, if any. Only that it is clear that faith without works is dead. We can "lose" our salvation through bad works or not doing God's will.

So yes, as you stated, and I agree, I'm not arguing which good works or how many. Only that something more than zero per the writings of God is required.

---

A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

The self righteousness is hilarious. You know you nailed Jesus to a tree right? Don't pretend to have a monopoly on theology. People far smarter than you have far better thought out arguments.

---

Uh yeah, sounds like YOU are the one who is being self righteous. Salvation by Grace means that it's God's Work, not mine. It also means that you cannot lose your Salvation because it's of God, not me. Truth is truth whether you like it or not. And that was a snide comment, "People far smarter than you have far better thought out arguments". Oh really? I could care less what the so called smart people say. I care what the Bible says, so Chapter and Verse please. Back it up with Scripture or keep quiet.

---

No you don't, you care about what you say and your image when you say it. Your self righteousness is all over the thread. I am just pointing out the obvious.

Porteroso 's self righteousness comes from confirmation bias.

Arrogance sneaks in and takes hold in many of us without us noticing.

No surprise that when called on it, denial is the most common response.

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

---

Frodo, you are still ducking the point.

---

I don't have to duck anything. I have Scripture on my side. Scripture trumps all. If you can't show me in the Scriptures, then your opinion is meaningless.

Are you some born againer? You joined in 2017, only have 100 posts and suddenly the scriptures errupted here. And that screen name resembles a frog or aggy.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

---

Frodo, you are still ducking the point.

---

I don't have to duck anything. I have Scripture on my side. Scripture trumps all. If you can't show me in the Scriptures, then your opinion is meaningless.

---

Your problem, Frodo, is that anyone can quote Scripture. Context matters and must not be ignored.

This is not a place where you can win arguments. If you want to help bring people to Christ, you must win their belief, not bicker and dispute like the Pharisees did.

Look to Christ's example and put Reason over Pride.

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

---

Frodo, you are still ducking the point.

---

I don't have to duck anything. I have Scripture on my side. Scripture trumps all. If you can't show me in the Scriptures, then your opinion is meaningless.

---

Your problem, Frodo, is that anyone can quote Scripture. Context matters and must not be ignored.

This is not a place where you can win arguments. If you want to help bring people to Christ, you must win their belief, not bicker and dispute like the Pharisees did.

Look to Christ's example and put Reason over Pride.

---

Your problem is that you try to duck out of the fact that you are proven wrong by using the "Context" lie. It's not out of context. It says what it means and means what it says. I will continue to share the Gospel. You are the one who needs to stop being prideful and just accept Scripture for what it says, instead of trying to change the meaning using the "out of context" lie. Show me the verse that proves me wrong.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

---

Frodo, you are still ducking the point.

---

I don't have to duck anything. I have Scripture on my side. Scripture trumps all. If you can't show me in the Scriptures, then your opinion is meaningless.

---

Your problem, Frodo, is that anyone can quote Scripture. Context matters and must not be ignored.

This is not a place where you can win arguments. If you want to help bring people to Christ, you must win their belief, not bicker and dispute like the Pharisees did.

Look to Christ's example and put Reason over Pride.

---

Your problem is that you try to duck out of the fact that you are proven wrong by using the "Context" lie. It's not out of context. It says what it means and means what it says. I will continue to share the Gospel. You are the one who needs to stop being prideful and just accept Scripture for what it says, instead of trying to change the meaning using the "out of context" lie. Show me the verse that proves me wrong.

---

Try to be a follower of Christ, not "win" internet arguments, Frodo.

I believe in sharing the Gospel. You don't do that by shoving Scripture in the faces of other people, you do it by patiently explaining what the verses say in the context of the situation.

It's silly to claim context does not matter. It is essential.

By the way. What 'proves you wrong', Frodo, is that not one person here has decided to become a Christian because of your testimony.

If you are angry and want to fire back some witty snark, keep in mind that would mean you are serving your pride, not our Lord.

1 Peter 5:5 "Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, 'God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. '"

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

So what happens to all the Asians, Indians, Arabs, Jews, Americans and European non believers?

---

Two thoughts:

First, there are accounts in pretty much every culture of a strange prophet or priest who counseled forgiveness and peace. I cannot help but wonder if the concept of the Christophany extends to such cultures.

Second, there is a verse which shows up in both the Old Testament (Exodus 33:19) and the New Testament (Romans 9:15):

"I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy"

---

This verse is referring to those whom we already know He had mercy on and those whom He didn't as a group. The Jews and the Gentiles. In the OT, under the Law, it was the Jews who primarily received God's Salvation and under the NT, under Grace, it is the Gentiles who primarily receive God's Salvation. But there are exceptions in both cases.

---

You are missing the point, frodo. It's up to God, always, not some human rule.

---

God expects us to make a choice of Faith in Christ in order to obtain His Saving Grace:


Ro 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

---

Frodo, you are still ducking the point.

---

I don't have to duck anything. I have Scripture on my side. Scripture trumps all. If you can't show me in the Scriptures, then your opinion is meaningless.

---

Your problem, Frodo, is that anyone can quote Scripture. Context matters and must not be ignored.

This is not a place where you can win arguments. If you want to help bring people to Christ, you must win their belief, not bicker and dispute like the Pharisees did.

Look to Christ's example and put Reason over Pride.

---

Your problem is that you try to duck out of the fact that you are proven wrong by using the "Context" lie. It's not out of context. It says what it means and means what it says. I will continue to share the Gospel. You are the one who needs to stop being prideful and just accept Scripture for what it says, instead of trying to change the meaning using the "out of context" lie. Show me the verse that proves me wrong.

---

Try to be a follower of Christ, not "win" internet arguments, Frodo.

I believe in sharing the Gospel. You don't do that by shoving Scripture in the faces of other people, you do it by patiently explaining what the verses say in the context of the situation.

It's silly to claim context does not matter. It is essential.

---

I see, so you ignore the Word of God when sharing the Gospel? Maybe you should take your own advice and stop shoving your ignorance of the Scriptures in the face of other people who are trying to share the Gospel. I never said that context doesn't matter. What I am saying is that you don't know the Scriptures if you claim that I am somehow taking the verses out of context. That's a cop out for people who don't want to believe it. The Bible is our source for truth. You don't seem to be interested in Scripture, just criticizing those who share it. I'm not angry, I just can't believe that I have to argue/debate someone who claims to believe in the Gospel, but doesn't know that Scripture is the foundation of Christianity and sharing the Gospel is a good thing. That works don't save a person. Read the book of Romans.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

I posted this a few days ago, but didn't see a direct response. If you answered in another post, I apologize.

]What does this (bolded print) mean?

How does one KNOW that they are a true Christian?

Finally, in Galatian 5:4, St. Paul states to the new Christians, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace." So if they were severed from Christ, they have obviously were WITH Christ (saved) but they lost salvation.

Fortunately, the Catholic church gives us a way to restore our friendship with Him thru the sacrament of Reconciliation.

Frodo: "I see, so you ignore the Word of God when sharing the Gospel?"

Of course I depend on the Word of God. But your posts use it to attack, not persuade.

I suggest you consider the following verses before posting in exposition of the Gospel:

Matthew 11:29a "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart"

Matthew 12: 19 "He will not quarrel, nor cry out; nor will anyone hear his voice in the streets."

Ephesians 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love"

Proverbs 15:18 "Hot tempers cause arguments, but patience brings peace"

Ecclesiastes 7:8b "Patience is better than pride."

1 Corinthians 13:4 "Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud; it is not arrogant."

Proverbs 14:29 "Whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly"

2 Timothy 2:24-25 "The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth"



Frodo: "Maybe you should take your own advice and stop shoving your ignorance of the Scriptures in the face of other people who are trying to share the Gospel."

Why do you make false claims, Frodo? Do you think it pleases Jesus to lie about other Christians simply because you prefer your opinion and style, and become angry whenever someone suggests you reconsider your tactics?


Frodo: "I never said that context doesn't matter."

Your 9:34 post from yesterday says otherwise. Or more precisely, you claim that your argument is the one right method of evangelism, and that other opinions - even from other Christians - are so "wrong" as to be non-Scriptural at all.

That, brother, is hubris. And surely you know where that leads.



Frodo "What I am saying is that you don't know the Scriptures if you claim that I am somehow taking the verses out of context."


That's your pride speaking. You started this thread in the effort to tell the Gospel. If you look through this thread, you will see its results.

Stop and consider, why are there four Gospel books in Canon? can you accept that one person may not accept one version, however true? That other believers could tell the same true story, but in the language suited to their audience, in some ways similar to how a farmer uses different ways to treat the soil to meet the needs of the seeds planted. What works for corn is different than what you need to use for wheat, and the same with different audiences. Yet you use the same style in every thread, and never look at your results to see if you are effective in your ministry.



Frodo: "That's a cop out for people who don't want to believe it. The Bible is our source for truth. You don't seem to be interested in Scripture, just criticizing those who share it."

If you have ever read my posts on faith, Frodo, you would know that I have studied Scripture, and try to apply it as relevant to the need. Attacking and making false claims about other believers does not serve you well, brother.



Frodo: "I'm not angry"

You most certainly are, and displaying a posture of arrogance and - frankly - bullying.



Frodo: "I just can't believe that I have to argue/debate someone who claims to believe in the Gospel, but doesn't know that Scripture is the foundation of Christianity and sharing the Gospel is a good thing. That works don't save a person. Read the book of Romans."

That sir, is a rant and frankly is both dishonest and prideful.

I was plain that Scripture is precious and vital.. But you can see by your harvest whether your tools are effective.

Who here have you persuaded? Who among the non-believers has granted that you are right on any point?

Coke Bear said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

I posted this a few days ago, but didn't see a direct response. If you answered in another post, I apologize.

]What does this (bolded print) mean?

How does one KNOW that they are a true Christian?

Finally, in Galatian 5:4, St. Paul states to the new Christians, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace." So if they were severed from Christ, they have obviously were WITH Christ (saved) but they lost salvation.

Fortunately, the Catholic church gives us a way to restore our friendship with Him thru the sacrament of Reconciliation.

---

Thank you Coke Bear. I find the verse relevant, even if I must say I do not consider the doctrines of the RCC equal to Scripture, although I may compare it to the writings of Lewis or Chesterton. That is, if not Holy Writ it has value as all service to God has value.

Coke Bear said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

I posted this a few days ago, but didn't see a direct response. If you answered in another post, I apologize.

]What does this (bolded print) mean?

How does one KNOW that they are a true Christian?

Finally, in Galatian 5:4, St. Paul states to the new Christians, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace." So if they were severed from Christ, they have obviously were WITH Christ (saved) but they lost salvation.

Fortunately, the Catholic church gives us a way to restore our friendship with Him thru the sacrament of Reconciliation.

---

This verse means that if you are trying to be Justified by Works as in working for your Salvation rather than Saved by Grace through Faith alone, then you are not saved. This passage doesn't say the words, "But they lost their Salvation". It says that if a person is relying on Works to save them, as the Catholic Church Teaches, then Christ shall profit them nothing.

Ga 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Also, Sacraments don't save a soul. Communion isn't a part of your Salvation, it's an ordinance of God. There is another example of Catholics trying to add works to Salvation. That exact passage warns against this. OBEY the Word of God! Salvation is by Grace through Faith alone as the Bible says.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Coke Bear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

I posted this a few days ago, but didn't see a direct response. If you answered in another post, I apologize.

]What does this (bolded print) mean?

How does one KNOW that they are a true Christian?

Finally, in Galatian 5:4, St. Paul states to the new Christians, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace." So if they were severed from Christ, they have obviously were WITH Christ (saved) but they lost salvation.

Fortunately, the Catholic church gives us a way to restore our friendship with Him thru the sacrament of Reconciliation.

---

This verse means that if you are trying to be Justified by Works as in working for your Salvation rather than Saved by Grace through Faith alone, then you are not saved. This passage doesn't say the words, "But they lost their Salvation". It says that if a person is relying on Works to save them, as the Catholic Church Teaches, then Christ shall profit them nothing.

Ga 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

---

• First, thanks for responding.
• Second, I was asking for the meaning of your statement, "they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace." I don't understand what you mean in the context of the statement you presented.
• Third, please show me the passage where it states "Saved by Grace alone."
• Forth, please show me an official Catholic documents that states that the Church teaches Works based Salvation.
• Finally, the Galatians passage states that one is NOT saved by works of the Mosaic law. It also states that one CAN lose their salvation. Once saved, always saved is not biblical.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Also, Sacraments don't save a soul. Communion isn't a part of your Salvation, it's an ordinance of God. There is another example of Catholics trying to add works to Salvation. That exact passage warns against this. OBEY the Word of God! Salvation is by Grace through Faith alone as the Bible says.

---

All 7 sacraments are given to us from Jesus. Baptism is essential for Salvation. Jesus, himself, tells Nicodemus this very thing in John 3:5 -

Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Once again, please show us where the Bible states "Salvation is by Grace through Faith alone."

Catholics do not add works to salvation. As I mentioned before, the only things required for salvation are to Believe, Repent, and be Baptized.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')

There are some things that you should know:

1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:

Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.

2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:

Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That's because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won't have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.

3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (from hell).

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.

Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

4. You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:

"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."

If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.

---

This is all superstitious religious culture that has taught is we are sinners. Hate to break to you but there has never been an Adam and eve and we know exactly how we got here as human beings. I guess you beli e the earth is flat of a religious document tells you so...very sad for so many to not be able to find fact based truths if they are blinded by their superstitious beliefs...
..

joseywales said:

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This is all superstitious religious culture that has taught is we are sinners. Hate to break to you but there has never been an Adam and eve and we know exactly how we got here as human beings. I guess you beli e the earth is flat of a religious document tells you so...very sad for so many to not be able to find fact based truths if they are blinded by their superstitious beliefs...
..

---

Please state what religious document claims that the earth is flat.

Please (re)state your beliefs concerning the afterlife.

Coke Bear said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.

---

I posted this a few days ago, but didn't see a direct response. If you answered in another post, I apologize.

]What does this (bolded print) mean?

How does one KNOW that they are a true Christian?

Finally, in Galatian 5:4, St. Paul states to the new Christians, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace." So if they were severed from Christ, they have obviously were WITH Christ (saved) but they lost salvation.

Fortunately, the Catholic church gives us a way to restore our friendship with Him thru the sacrament of Reconciliation.

---

This verse means that if you are trying to be Justified by Works as in working for your Salvation rather than Saved by Grace through Faith alone, then you are not saved. This passage doesn't say the words, "But they lost their Salvation". It says that if a person is relying on Works to save them, as the Catholic Church Teaches, then Christ shall profit them nothing.

Ga 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

---

• First, thanks for responding.
• Second, I was asking for the meaning of your statement, "they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace." I don't understand what you mean in the context of the statement you presented.
• Third, please show me the passage where it states "Saved by Grace alone."
• Forth, please show me an official Catholic documents that states that the Church teaches Works based Salvation.
• Finally, the Galatians passage states that one is NOT saved by works of the Mosaic law. It also states that one CAN lose their salvation. Once saved, always saved is not biblical.

---

1) You're Welcome
2) This is something we will have to discuss another day, I am about to go to bed.
3) READ THE BOOK OF ROMANS. THE WHOLE BOOK TALKS ABOUT IT

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

4) I don't have official Catholic Doctrine. I am not a Catholic. I do know what they say and teach and it's works based. A good friend of mine is also a Catholic and he thinks he has to do good works to be saved.
5) The Mosaic Law is all about what works you could do to be saved IF you could be saved by works. So, any work that you do to try and be saved, nullifies grace because Grace is God's work, not ours.

Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians doesn't say that you can lose your Salvation. It says that if you are seeking to be Justified by Works or Adding good works to God's Grace, you aren't saved.

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Christ died for nothing if you could be saved by doing good deeds. It's all about FAITH ALONE. Read the entire book of Romans. It's pretty clear.

I, too, look forward to our later exchange. I'm heading to bed shortly. I just wanted to reply to a few things.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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4) I don't have official Catholic Doctrine. I am not a Catholic. I do know what they say and teach and it's works based. A good friend of mine is also a Catholic and he thinks he has to do good works to be saved.

---

Unfortunately, your Catholic friend is incorrect. The Church has NEVER taught that good works are necessary to be saved. Only repenting, believing, and being baptized.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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5) The Mosaic Law is all about what works you could do to be saved IF you could be saved by works. So, any work that you do to try and be saved, nullifies grace because Grace is God's work, not ours.

---

We'll have to agree to disagree. The passages states "you have fallen away from grace." If one had grace, i.e. salvation, and now they're fallen, they have lost salvation.

When we do lose our salvation by committing a mortal sin, we can regain our salvation thru the sacrament of Confession, which Jesus gave us.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Christ died for nothing if you could be saved by doing good deeds. It's all about FAITH ALONE. Read the entire book of Romans. It's pretty clear.

---

Once again, the Church never stated doing good deeds would garner salvation.

Josey, what are your thoughts on Jesus?

Fre3dombear said:

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I've already pointed you to a / the verse proving my point

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What verse is that? You hang your whole Doctrinal view on one verse? Read the book or Romans. It's very clear that Savlation is by Grace through Faith alone.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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I've already pointed you to a / the verse proving my point

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What verse is that? You hang your whole Doctrinal view on one verse? Read the book or Romans. It's very clear that Savlation is by Grace through Faith alone.

---

You choose to ignore the versus that contradict what you're saying? It's all stated above. That's not the path I am choosing to go down.

Fre3dom, in your view, is xFrodo going to spend eternity in heaven?

xFrodo, in your view, is Fre3dom going to spend eternity in heaven?

In both cases, you will notice that I didn't ask you about you.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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I've already pointed you to a / the verse proving my point

---

What verse is that? You hang your whole Doctrinal view on one verse? Read the book or Romans. It's very clear that Savlation is by Grace through Faith alone.

---

I hope that you will get a chance to respond to my previous post. I am enjoying our conversation.

I'm slowing reviewing Romans. I have a few questions concerning FAITH ALONE:

Romans 1:11-12 states:
11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong
12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.

What is the point of Paul's spiritual gift to make them strong if they only need FAITH ALONE?

Once they have faith, why must they mutually encourage each others faith?

I figure that we should tackle "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" in another post or thread.

I'll continue my study of Romans in another post.

Coke Bear said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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I've already pointed you to a / the verse proving my point

---

What verse is that? You hang your whole Doctrinal view on one verse? Read the book or Romans. It's very clear that Savlation is by Grace through Faith alone.

---

I hope that you will get a chance to respond to my previous post. I am enjoying our conversation.

I'm slowing reviewing Romans. I have a few questions concerning FAITH ALONE:

Romans 1:11-12 states:
11 I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong
12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.

What is the point of Paul's spiritual gift to make them strong if they only need FAITH ALONE?

Once they have faith, why must they mutually encourage each others faith?

I figure that we should tackle "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED" in another post or thread.

I'll continue my study of Romans in another post.

---

We are saved by Grace through Faith Alone, but Faith is a choice we make to believe God. We can become weak in our Faith if we neglect to read the Word and gather with other Believers. The Church was founded for Believers in Christ to Build up and Encourage one another in the Faith and to Learn the Word of God.

Grace=God's Work
Faith=Our Choice to Believe/Trust/Faith in God & His Word.

Ro 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Ro 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Ro 4:16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Ro 4:24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

Ro 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Ro 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Ro 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ro 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

It's pretty clear that Salvation by by Grace (God's Work) through Faith (Our choice to Believe God) Believing that Jesus Christ died and Rose Again for our sins.

A short video that explains things nicely