Oldbear83 said:

---

"Knowledge is not always summed up in degrees."

True, but knowing the school sometimes helps orient the perspective.

---

Trust me this guy knows Doctrine better than 90 to 95% of the preachers out there. He studies all of it. He just doesn't have a formal degree. He reads he has read many books and has many other sources.

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Knowledge is not always summed up in degrees."

True, but knowing the school sometimes helps orient the perspective.

---

Sometimes Schools force a certain type of Theology that may be incorrect. I would out Cathoic Theology in the incorrect category.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

A person hears the gospel, believes, and places his trust in Jesus for his salvation. The church schedules a water baptism for him in one week.

Question: when did he get saved - after belief, or one week later after he was water baptized?

---

Still saved. Baptism has nothing to do woth Salvation

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

Thanks Frodo. Some interesting bits in there, and maybe worth discussion.

I'm one of those people who likes to know the foundation used, so Mr. Feldick's doctrine page was helpful.

https://www.lesfeldick.org/les-doct.html

Some of Mr. Feldick's statements raised questions for me as well.

For example, why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?

I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

I am curious about your thoughts on that point. And thanks again for providing the link to Mr. Feldick's site.

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

---

It's not propaganda, it's truth. They should be there telling them about Jesus Christ because their eternal souls are at stake. You are wrong.

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

---

It's not propaganda, it's truth. They should be there telling them about Jesus Christ because their eternal souls are at stake. You are wrong.

---

Arrogance

The locals had a right to live.

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

---

It's not propaganda, it's truth. They should be there telling them about Jesus Christ because their eternal souls are at stake. You are wrong.

---

Arrogance

The locals had a right to live.

---

The arrogance is yours. You are only complaining because they are Christians. You don't care about any other visitors. They have a right to choose eternal life in Jesus Christ.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

---

It's not propaganda, it's truth. They should be there telling them about Jesus Christ because their eternal souls are at stake. You are wrong.

---

Arrogance

The locals had a right to live.

---

The arrogance is yours. You are only complaining because they are Christians. You don't care about any other visitors. They have a right to choose eternal life in Jesus Christ.

---

A. Wrong, as I am a practicing Christian. But facts are facts.
B. The natives had no 'choice ' in Hawaii, Texas or California missions. The Europeans came regardless. And millions of natives died as a result. Most in horrible agony.

"And millions of natives died as a result. Most in horrible agony."

That sounds like a stretch to me.

I agree that the missionaries brought disease with them. But that was the case with every group which moved into foreign lands.

Pharoah's armies likely did the same, as did China's emperors, and of course Genghis Khan and his horde. I wouldn't toss a relatively small number of well-meaning and pacifist missionaries into the pot of 'cruel invaders' you seem to be doing here.

After all, no one blames China for the Black Plague deaths in Europe, even though that's a strong possibility for the origin. Intent matters

As to the number who died and how, that's up for debate. One prominent theory is that the natives lost some of their immune system after contact with the missionaries, and simply died earlier and in greater numbers from injuries and common infections.

And of course, it's not as if the missionaries themselves were immune to disease contracted from contact with the new friends they met.

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

---

It's not propaganda, it's truth. They should be there telling them about Jesus Christ because their eternal souls are at stake. You are wrong.

---

Arrogance

The locals had a right to live.

---

The arrogance is yours. You are only complaining because they are Christians. You don't care about any other visitors. They have a right to choose eternal life in Jesus Christ.

---

A. Wrong, as I am a practicing Christian. But facts are facts.
B. The natives had no 'choice ' in Hawaii, Texas or California missions. The Europeans came regardless. And millions of natives died as a result. Most in horrible agony.

---

You forgot where the "natives"' ancestors immigrated here also.

And you forgot how some tribes fought, enslaved, raped and murdered "natives" of other tribes. For example, the Waco were not run off by Europeans but by Apache.

Finally, I was born in Texas, raised here, and live here now, if I am not a "native", then what am I?

We're all natives to Earth. We are all human beings. Who we are as people is determined by our individual personalities, not by our ancestors and not by what we look like.

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Just re read the history of Hawaii.

This thread reminds me how the New England missionaries inadvertently spread various diseases among the local natives.

---

What does that have to do with anything? Should they not have spread the gospel to those people?

---

Tens of thousands of natives died horrible deaths.


Does that answer your question ?

---

Of course I care about their deaths, but whenever a foreign person visits, there is a risk of that sort of thing. They obviously didn't mean for that to happen.

---

No doubt the thousands who died in horrible pain were ok with all the 'good' intentions.

---

But you don't have a problem with anybody else visiting a foreign country just missionaries right? Get your head on straight

---

Have a problem with propaganda.

The missionaries meant well.

But their uninvited presence resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of natives.

Fact


Same occurred with the Spanish missions in Texas and California.

Well intentioned Spanish clergy brought European diseases to the Indians.

Soon the mission graveyards were full.

---

It's not propaganda, it's truth. They should be there telling them about Jesus Christ because their eternal souls are at stake. You are wrong.

---

Arrogance

The locals had a right to live.

---

The arrogance is yours. You are only complaining because they are Christians. You don't care about any other visitors. They have a right to choose eternal life in Jesus Christ.

---

A. Wrong, as I am a practicing Christian. But facts are facts.
B. The natives had no 'choice ' in Hawaii, Texas or California missions. The Europeans came regardless. And millions of natives died as a result. Most in horrible agony.

---

A practicing Christian.... except for the Great Commission apparently. Even resentful of it.

A very, very strange take for a professed Christian. And aren't you Catholic? Even stranger, as it was mainly Catholicism that spread to indigenous peoples.

Oldbear83 said:

---

"And millions of natives died as a result. Most in horrible agony."

That sounds like a stretch to me.

I agree that the missionaries brought disease with them. But that was the case with every group which moved into foreign lands.

Pharoah's armies likely did the same, as did China's emperors, and of course Genghis Khan and his horde. I wouldn't toss a relatively small number of well-meaning and pacifist missionaries into the pot of 'cruel invaders' you seem to be doing here.

After all, no one blames China for the Black Plague deaths in Europe, even though that's a strong possibility for the origin. Intent matters

As to the number who died and how, that's up for debate. One prominent theory is that the natives lost some of their immune system after contact with the missionaries, and simply died earlier and in greater numbers from injuries and common infections.

And of course, it's not as if the missionaries themselves were immune to disease contracted from contact with the new friends they met.

---

A. It is not a stretch. Missionaires brought epidemics that absolutely destroyed up to 80% of various populations.
The survivors were stunned at the loss of their children, parents and other family members.

B. Have already stated....the missionaires meant well. Epidemics aside the missionaires usually treated the locals better than other Europeans. However the locals were still infected and died like flies.

C. If one wants to be really cold blooded about it....one could argue the missionaires helped defeat the most powerful tribe in Texas. As Comanche populations were reduced by European infections by at least 35%.

Still nothing there but your claim, Kaibear.

And no wonder, since we have no population data from North America from that time

It's all subjective, and as the mood has been for the last fifty years, when in doubt blame the White, the Male, the Christian.

The people selling this hate aren't even embarrassed when someone points out their claims lack evidence beyond the accusations.

I like a reasoned discussion, and have no complaint about a common sense argument, but serious accusations really need more support than a rant.

Oldbear83 said:

---

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

---

From my post up the page:


"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

I am curious about your thoughts"

Thanks Frodo.

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

---

From my post up the page:


"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

I can't speak for him and neither can he, (he is deceased), but I can give my opinion. A lot of Churches drop the Denominational title because they know that people will tune them out before hearing their message rather than hearing the message and processing it fir what it is. His Authority is the Word of God that he quotes it to back him up. He do doesn't need a Church or Denomination or organization to affirm his views. He needs The Word of God. And Les shows in detail how the Bible fits together perfectly. No fancy degrees. Greatest Bible I have ever heard.


What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Well, there are certainly people who have Revelations from Jesus Christ and dreams and visions and come to salvation in Him. His view is that only those who place their faith in Jesus Christ, that He shed His blood as the sacrifice for our sins will go to heaven. And I agree with him.


Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Perfected in Les Feldick's view means maturity, not a perfect person. The journey leads to maturity (perfection). It is Christ, vis the Holy Spirit leading the believer to maturity, not the believer.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

Yes, The Great White Throne Judgement is the final judgement of the Non Believers. He resurrects them at the end of time to give them a fair trial of their lives and the final consequences of their actions. For instance, Mohammad started Islam, murdered, raped and tortured thousands of people, but also, the consequences of his false religion are still causing violence, rape, murder and destruction all over middle east & the world. It is also sadly leading countless millions of Muslims to an eternal hell. Mohammed will be judged for each and every person he leads astray, past, present and future of his actions and the other misery caused by his actions. That's why God is waiting until the end of time to judge them.

I am curious about your thoughts"

Thanks Frodo.

---

My responses are in bold above. Let me know of you have any more questions.

No problem.

Happy Sunday.

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

---

From my post up the page:


"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

I can't speak for him and neither can he, (he is deceased), but I can give my opinion. A lot of Churches drop the Denominational title because they know that people will tune them out before hearing their message rather than hearing the message and processing it fir what it is. His Authority is the Word of God that he quotes it to back him up. He do doesn't need a Church or Denomination or organization to affirm his views. He needs The Word of God. And Les shows in detail how the Bible fits together perfectly. No fancy degrees. Greatest Bible I have ever heard.


What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Well, there are certainly people who have Revelations from Jesus Christ and dreams and visions and come to salvation in Him. His view is that only those who place their faith in Jesus Christ, that He shed His blood as the sacrifice for our sins will go to heaven. And I agree with him.


Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Perfected in Les Feldick's view means maturity, not a perfect person. The journey leads to maturity (perfection). It is Christ, vis the Holy Spirit leading the believer to maturity, not the believer.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

Yes, The Great White Throne Judgement is the final judgement of the Non Believers. He resurrects them at the end of time to give them a fair trial of their lives and the final consequences of their actions. For instance, Mohammad started Islam, murdered, raped and tortured thousands of people, but also, the consequences of his false religion are still causing violence, rape, murder and destruction all over middle east & the world. It is also sadly leading countless millions of Muslims to an eternal hell. Mohammed will be judged for each and every person he leads astray, past, present and future of his actions and the other misery caused by his actions. That's why God is waiting until the end of time to judge them.

I am curious about your thoughts"

Thanks Frodo.

---

My responses are in bold above. Let me know of you have any more questions.

No problem.

---

Will be similar for Martin Luther and the nun he snuck out in a barrel etc etc

Quote:

---

"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

---

Why not just go by whether what they're saying is true or not?

Quote:

---

Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

---

Where are you getting that he is implying that we are already perfected?

Quote:

---

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

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Where are you getting that he's saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering?

Fre3dombear said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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xfrodobagginsx said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

---

From my post up the page:


"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

I can't speak for him and neither can he, (he is deceased), but I can give my opinion. A lot of Churches drop the Denominational title because they know that people will tune them out before hearing their message rather than hearing the message and processing it fir what it is. His Authority is the Word of God that he quotes it to back him up. He do doesn't need a Church or Denomination or organization to affirm his views. He needs The Word of God. And Les shows in detail how the Bible fits together perfectly. No fancy degrees. Greatest Bible I have ever heard.


What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Well, there are certainly people who have Revelations from Jesus Christ and dreams and visions and come to salvation in Him. His view is that only those who place their faith in Jesus Christ, that He shed His blood as the sacrifice for our sins will go to heaven. And I agree with him.


Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Perfected in Les Feldick's view means maturity, not a perfect person. The journey leads to maturity (perfection). It is Christ, vis the Holy Spirit leading the believer to maturity, not the believer.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

Yes, The Great White Throne Judgement is the final judgement of the Non Believers. He resurrects them at the end of time to give them a fair trial of their lives and the final consequences of their actions. For instance, Mohammad started Islam, murdered, raped and tortured thousands of people, but also, the consequences of his false religion are still causing violence, rape, murder and destruction all over middle east & the world. It is also sadly leading countless millions of Muslims to an eternal hell. Mohammed will be judged for each and every person he leads astray, past, present and future of his actions and the other misery caused by his actions. That's why God is waiting until the end of time to judge them.

I am curious about your thoughts"

Thanks Frodo.

---

My responses are in bold above. Let me know of you have any more questions.

No problem.

---

Will be similar for Martin Luther and the nun he snuck out in a barrel etc etc

---

I would think that Martin Luther got it right. He believed in salvation by grace through faith In Christ Alone believing that He died and rose from the dead as a sacrifice for our sins. That's Romans 10:9 ,10 -13

Good point. I heard the last person that was perfect wound up on a cross as a result of a bunch of jealous hypocrites.

BUDOS said:

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Good point. I heard the last person that was perfect wound up on a cross as a result of a bunch of jealous hypocrites.

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When it comes to the Doctrine of Salvation, we have to get it right. The other stuff is Secondary.

Please take the time to read this first post if you haven't yet thank you.

xfrodobagginsx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

---

From my post up the page:


"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

I can't speak for him and neither can he, (he is deceased), but I can give my opinion. A lot of Churches drop the Denominational title because they know that people will tune them out before hearing their message rather than hearing the message and processing it fir what it is. His Authority is the Word of God that he quotes it to back him up. He do doesn't need a Church or Denomination or organization to affirm his views. He needs The Word of God. And Les shows in detail how the Bible fits together perfectly. No fancy degrees. Greatest Bible I have ever heard.


What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Well, there are certainly people who have Revelations from Jesus Christ and dreams and visions and come to salvation in Him. His view is that only those who place their faith in Jesus Christ, that He shed His blood as the sacrifice for our sins will go to heaven. And I agree with him.


Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Perfected in Les Feldick's view means maturity, not a perfect person. The journey leads to maturity (perfection). It is Christ, vis the Holy Spirit leading the believer to maturity, not the believer.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

Yes, The Great White Throne Judgement is the final judgement of the Non Believers. He resurrects them at the end of time to give them a fair trial of their lives and the final consequences of their actions. For instance, Mohammad started Islam, murdered, raped and tortured thousands of people, but also, the consequences of his false religion are still causing violence, rape, murder and destruction all over middle east & the world. It is also sadly leading countless millions of Muslims to an eternal hell. Mohammed will be judged for each and every person he leads astray, past, present and future of his actions and the other misery caused by his actions. That's why God is waiting until the end of time to judge them.

I am curious about your thoughts"

Thanks Frodo.

---

My responses are in bold above. Let me know of you have any more questions.

No problem.

---

Will be similar for Martin Luther and the nun he snuck out in a barrel etc etc

---

I would think that Martin Luther got it right. He believed in salvation by grace through faith In Christ Alone believing that He died and rose from the dead as a sacrifice for our sins. That's Romans 10:9 ,10 -13

---

"Faith in Christ alone"? Well that's a new spin.

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

xfrodobagginsx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

No response to my questions about Mr. Feldick?

---

I'm sorry I must have missed it. What questions did you have?

---

From my post up the page:


"Why did Mr. Feldick not belong to or accept the authority of any specific denomination?


I have to say that bothers me a bit, because that's what a lot of Mega-churches do, the ones which end up teaching whatever gets them popular and rich. Not saying Mr. Feldick was that way, but if someone is to teach the Bible, it matters where and how they learned what they are teaching.

I can't speak for him and neither can he, (he is deceased), but I can give my opinion. A lot of Churches drop the Denominational title because they know that people will tune them out before hearing their message rather than hearing the message and processing it fir what it is. His Authority is the Word of God that he quotes it to back him up. He do doesn't need a Church or Denomination or organization to affirm his views. He needs The Word of God. And Les shows in detail how the Bible fits together perfectly. No fancy degrees. Greatest Bible I have ever heard.


What was Mr. Feldick's explanation for those who do not experience Christ through direct witness by a believer in this life?

Well, there are certainly people who have Revelations from Jesus Christ and dreams and visions and come to salvation in Him. His view is that only those who place their faith in Jesus Christ, that He shed His blood as the sacrifice for our sins will go to heaven. And I agree with him.


Mr. Feldick wrote that "We believe the true believer will live a life pleasing to God [Titus 2:1, 12, & 13, Galatians 5:22 & 23]"

But a plain reading shows, to me at least, that we believers must persevere to grow our faith and while this journey pleases God, we should not imagine we are already perfected, as Mr. Feldick seems to imply.

Perfected in Les Feldick's view means maturity, not a perfect person. The journey leads to maturity (perfection). It is Christ, vis the Holy Spirit leading the believer to maturity, not the believer.

Also, I am curious about Mr. Feldick's statement that "We believe the lost of all the ages will be resurrected and appear before the great white throne and then sent to their eternal doom [John 5:28 & 29, Revelation 20:11-15]."

In your opinion, why would God resurrect someone just to punish them for eternity? I do believe that if someone does not accept the Lord, he or she is not reborn and will suffer the consequence of their sins, but to me that has always been a matter of us choosing our outcome through selfish pride rather than letting the Lord redeem us, while Mr. Feldick seems to be saying God chooses to cause maximum suffering in some cases.

Yes, The Great White Throne Judgement is the final judgement of the Non Believers. He resurrects them at the end of time to give them a fair trial of their lives and the final consequences of their actions. For instance, Mohammad started Islam, murdered, raped and tortured thousands of people, but also, the consequences of his false religion are still causing violence, rape, murder and destruction all over middle east & the world. It is also sadly leading countless millions of Muslims to an eternal hell. Mohammed will be judged for each and every person he leads astray, past, present and future of his actions and the other misery caused by his actions. That's why God is waiting until the end of time to judge them.

I am curious about your thoughts"

Thanks Frodo.

---

My responses are in bold above. Let me know of you have any more questions.

No problem.

---

Will be similar for Martin Luther and the nun he snuck out in a barrel etc etc

---

I would think that Martin Luther got it right. He believed in salvation by grace through faith In Christ Alone believing that He died and rose from the dead as a sacrifice for our sins. That's Romans 10:9 ,10 -13

---

"Faith in Christ alone"? Well that's a new spin.

---

.

Well, when you cut out the rest of what he actually said, you sometimes get different meaning from what he actually said.