Legalizing Marijuana Is a Big Mistake

4,844 Views | 89 Replies | Last: 20 days ago by boognish_bear
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Legalizatio isn't working the way proponents wish it would.

Legalizing Marijuana Is a Big Mistake
Of all the ways to win a culture war, the smoothest is to just make the other side seem hopelessly uncool. So it's been with the march of marijuana legalization: There have been moral arguments about the excesses of the drug war and medical arguments about the potential benefits of pot, but the vibe of the whole debate has pitted the chill against the uptight, the cool against the square, the relaxed future against the Principal Skinners of the past.
As support for legalization has climbed, commanding a two-thirds majority in recent polling, any contrary argument has come to feel a bit futile, and even modest cavils are couched in an apologetic and defensive style. Of course I don't question the right to get high, but perhaps the pervasive smell of weed in our cities is a bit unfortunate …? I'm not a narc or anything, but maybe New York City doesn't need quite so many unlicensed pot dealers …?
All of this means that it will take a long time for conventional wisdom to acknowledge the truth that seems readily apparent to squares like me: Marijuana legalization as we've done it so far has been a policy failure, a potential social disaster, a clear and evident mistake.
The best version of the square's case is an essay by Charles Fain Lehman of the Manhattan Institute explaining his evolution from youthful libertarian to grown-up prohibitionist. It will not convince readers who come in with stringently libertarian presuppositions who believe on high principle that consenting adults should be able to purchase, sell and enjoy almost any substance short of fentanyl and that no second-order social consequence can justify infringing on this right.

But Lehman explains in detail why the second-order effects of marijuana legalization have mostly vindicated the pessimists and skeptics. First, on the criminal justice front, the expectation that legalizing pot would help reduce America's prison population by clearing out nonviolent offenders was always overdrawn, since marijuana convictions made up a small share of the incarceration rate even at its height. But Lehman argues that there is also no good evidence so far that legalization reduces racially discriminatory patterns of policing and arrests. In his view, cops often use marijuana as a pretext to search someone they suspect of a more serious crime, and they simply substitute some other pretext when the law changes, leaving arrest rates basically unchanged.

So legalization isn't necessarily striking a great blow against mass incarceration or for racial justice. Nor is it doing great things for public health. There was hope, and some early evidence, that legal pot might substitute for opioid use, but some of the more recent data cuts the other way: A new paper published in the Journal of Health Economics found that "legal medical marijuana, particularly when available through retail dispensaries, is associated with higher opioid mortality." There are therapeutic benefits to cannabis that justify its availability for prescription, but the evidence for its risks keeps increasing: This month brought a new paper strengthening the link between heavy pot use and the onset of schizophrenia in young men.
And the broad downside risks of marijuana, beyond extreme dangers like schizophrenia, remain as evident as ever: a form of personal degradation, of lost attention and performance and motivation, that isn't mortally dangerous in the way of heroin but that can damage or derail an awful lot of human lives. Most casual pot smokers won't have this experience, but the legalization era has seen a dramatic increase the number of noncasual users. Occasional use has risen substantially since 2008, but daily or near-daily use is up much more, with around 16 million Americans, out of more than 50 million users, now suffering from what is termed marijuana use disorder.
In theory, there are technocratic responses to these unfortunate trends. In its ideal form, legalization would be accompanied by effective regulation and taxation, and as Lehman notes, on paper it should be possible to discourage addiction by raising taxes in the legal market, effectively nudging users toward more casual consumption.
In practice, it hasn't worked that way. Because of all the years of prohibition, a mature and supple illegal marketplace already exists, ready to undercut whatever prices the legal market charges. So to make the legal marketplace successful and amenable to regulation, you would probably need much more enforcement against the illegal marketplace which is difficult and expensive and, again, obviously uncool, in conflict with the good-vibrations spirit of the legalizers.

Then you have the extreme case of New York, where legal permitting has lagged while untold numbers of illegal shops are doing business unmolested by the police. But even in less-incompetent-seeming states and localities, a similar pattern persists. Lehman cites (and has reviewed) the recent book "Can Legal Weed Win? The Blunt Realities of Cannabis Economics," by Robin Goldstein and Daniel Sumner, which shows that unlicensed weed can cost as much as 50 percent less than the licensed variety. So the more you tax and regulate legal pot sales, the more you run the risk of having users just switch to the black market and if you want the licensed market to crowd out the black market instead, you probably need to make legal pot as cheap as possible, which in turn undermines any effort to discourage chronic, life-altering abuse.

Thus policymakers who don't want so much chronic use and personal degradation have two options. They can set out to design a much more effective (but necessarily expensive, complex and sometimes punitive) system of regulation and enforcement than what exists so far. Or they can reach for the blunt instrument of recriminalization, which Lehman prefers for its simplicity with medical exceptions still carved out and with the possibility that possession could remain legal and that only production and distribution be prohibited.
I expect legalization to advance much further before either of these alternatives builds significant support. But eventually the culture will recognize that under the banner of personal choice, we're running a general experiment in exploitation addicting our more vulnerable neighbors to myriad pleasant-seeming vices, handing our children over to the social media dopamine machine and spreading degradation wherever casinos spring up and weed shops flourish.
With that realization, and only with that realization, will the squares get the hearing they deserve.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/17/opinion/marijuana-legalization-disaster.html


midgett
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Too long to read.

But I agree with the title. Prolonged use of marijuana has serious negative mental and physical consequences. So does alcohol. For whatever reason, only smoking nicotine has brought the heap of plaintiff's attorneys onto those companies.

Some people are almost immune to the consequences of any of the above. Lots of people aren't.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:


With that realization, and only with that realization, will the squares get the hearing they deserve.
The squares have had the hearing they deserve and then some. In all fairness it should be at least a century before they get another one.
Wangchung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The squares always have an argument until they try it. Then they feel stupid for all their previous protestations.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Wangchung
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Apparently they have sensitive noses or something.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Wangchung said:

The squares always have an argument until they try it. Then they feel stupid for all their previous protestations.
I have and ended up getting hooked on it for a while. Highs were too euphoric, found myself using 24/7 for nearly a year. It made my memory recall horrible. Had some terrifying highs along the way too. The issue is you get a tolerance very quickly.

It makes boring menial tasks interesting, so for me I was constantly avoiding those feelings by using it and it got out of control. When I quit it made me sick as a dog for about a week. Couldn't sleep and had horrible nausea. I'll never do it again.

It's definitely addictive. For some it could be debilitating.

Prohibition isn't going to work. People need to be aware that it's not harmless.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?


Because while they are possessed in the euphoria of certain 'freedoms '; they are a lethal threat to innocent people .
fadskier
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
I have no problems until it infringes on mine.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
muddybrazos
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think it should be medically legal and those who want it should be able to get a card and buy it. It seems to me that in the states where its fully legal there are a lot of other type of drug addicts in those places. Oklahmoa seems to be doing just fine with their medical cannabis system. I have never experienced any withdrawal symptoms or any other side effects. If you use the gummies there are really no negative health impacts at all unless you take a huge dose and then you might have a rough couple of hours.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
KaiBear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?


Because while they are possessed in the euphoria of certain 'freedoms '; they are a lethal threat to innocent people .
I have never smoked pot. I just dont think I have any right to your personal choices. I have enough trouble making decisions for myself, much less trying to dictate what you can or cant do.

Do you think alcohol, which is much more dangerous than most other drugs, should be legal?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

KaiBear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?


Because while they are possessed in the euphoria of certain 'freedoms '; they are a lethal threat to innocent people .
I have never smoked pot. I just dont think I have any right to your personal choices. I have enough trouble making decisions for myself, much less trying to dictate what you can or cant do.

Do you think alcohol, which is much more dangerous than most other drugs, should be legal?
I had a co-worker whose mom and brother were coming home one night and were struck by a drunk driver and killed. Should I tell her she shouldn't be afraid of other other people's freedom to alcohol?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?


Never touched stuff. The dufference between us is that make rules for myslef. You seem to want to make rules for others. I dont. Your way supports cartels, violence and Americas proson industry. Mine doesnt.
Wrecks Quan Dough
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?

You seem to want to make rules for others.
That is the way government works. The debate is focused on what and whose values are embodied in the rules that are made.
midgett
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:


With that realization, and only with that realization, will the squares get the hearing they deserve.
The squares have had the hearing they deserve and then some. In all fairness it should be at least a century before they get another one.


The squares? Is that the term for people who don't or have never smoked weed?
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
midgett said:

Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:


With that realization, and only with that realization, will the squares get the hearing they deserve.
The squares have had the hearing they deserve and then some. In all fairness it should be at least a century before they get another one.


The squares? Is that the term for people who don't or have never smoked weed?
According to the article it means the opposite of cool.
KaiBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

KaiBear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?


Because while they are possessed in the euphoria of certain 'freedoms '; they are a lethal threat to innocent people .
I have never smoked pot. I just dont think I have any right to your personal choices. I have enough trouble making decisions for myself, much less trying to dictate what you can or cant do.

Do you think alcohol, which is much more dangerous than most other drugs, should be legal?
Where in the world did you develop such a bizarre and destructive mindset ?

Illegal narcotics commonly lead to mental illness .

Mental illness often leads to suicide or violent acts toward others .

Its a straight line equation .

To say alcohol is more dangerous than the likes of fentanyl is so ludicrous that I can only conclude you are some kind of druggie .

Go away .
ABC BEAR
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
We could double the prison population and still have too many thugs on the street.
BellCountyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Because I don't want to pay for other people that choose to be unproductive members of society.
ron.reagan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

Wangchung said:

The squares always have an argument until they try it. Then they feel stupid for all their previous protestations.
I have and ended up getting hooked on it for a while. Highs were too euphoric, found myself using 24/7 for nearly a year. It made my memory recall horrible. Had some terrifying highs along the way too. The issue is you get a tolerance very quickly.

It makes boring menial tasks interesting, so for me I was constantly avoiding those feelings by using it and it got out of control. When I quit it made me sick as a dog for about a week. Couldn't sleep and had horrible nausea. I'll never do it again.

It's definitely addictive. For some it could be debilitating.

Prohibition isn't going to work. People need to be aware that it's not harmless.
People get through med school smoking every night and my man here can't remember his name.
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?


Never touched stuff. The dufference between us is that make rules for myslef. You seem to want to make rules for others. I dont. Your way supports cartels, violence and Americas proson industry. Mine doesnt.
You write like you're touching the stuff right now.

If you don't believe in rules for others, then you are anti-civilization. That's apparently the real difference between you and I - I'm for having a civilization.

Saying that the cartels, violence, and prisons are supported by having laws against certain behavior, is like saying the sex trafficking industry is supported by laws against rape. It's ridiculous, distorted thinking.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I really have no opinion or stance here. Did some in my younger years (At Baylor) some years ago and have not touched it since. I like to think it is harmless and not addictive but then I think about what Josh Gordon might have been without marijuana. My drug of choice is Vodka. And it is legal.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

KaiBear said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?


Because while they are possessed in the euphoria of certain 'freedoms '; they are a lethal threat to innocent people .
I have never smoked pot. I just dont think I have any right to your personal choices. I have enough trouble making decisions for myself, much less trying to dictate what you can or cant do.

Do you think alcohol, which is much more dangerous than most other drugs, should be legal?
Very good post, Brother Redneck.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
midgett
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Sam Lowry said:

midgett said:

Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:


With that realization, and only with that realization, will the squares get the hearing they deserve.
The squares have had the hearing they deserve and then some. In all fairness it should be at least a century before they get another one.


The squares? Is that the term for people who don't or have never smoked weed?
According to the article it means the opposite of cool.


Well I guess I qualify either way!
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
midgett said:

Sam Lowry said:

midgett said:

Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:


With that realization, and only with that realization, will the squares get the hearing they deserve.
The squares have had the hearing they deserve and then some. In all fairness it should be at least a century before they get another one.


The squares? Is that the term for people who don't or have never smoked weed?
According to the article it means the opposite of cool.


Well I guess I qualify either way!
That's cool.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?


Never touched stuff. The difference between us is that make rules for myslef. You seem to want to make rules for others. I dont. Your way supports cartels, violence and Americas proson industry. Mine doesnt.
You write like you're touching the stuff right now.

If you don't believe in rules for others, then you are anti-civilization. That's apparently the real difference between you and I - I'm for having a civilization.

Saying that the cartels, violence, and prisons are supported by having laws against certain behavior, is like saying the sex trafficking industry is supported by laws against rape. It's ridiculous, distorted thinking.


Throughout most of history most civilizations did not declare war on its citizens. Incarceration rates by country:

[ol]
  • United States 629
  • Rwanda 580
  • Turkmenistan 576
  • El Salvador 564
  • Cuba 510
  • Palau 478
  • British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) 477
  • Thailand 445
  • Panama 423
  • Saint Kitts and Nevis 423
  • [/ol]
    Notice where the USA, "Land of the Free" ranks. We have a gool lead of Rawanda. I think its an embarrassing stat. Are you chanting "We're number 1, We're number 1"? Land of the Free.

    Our war on drugs is the biggest part of this. We legalize vodka rum amd whiskey, but arrest others for their drug of choice. See Busy Tarp, I back my ideas with facts while you name call. China has a bigger population but we tonight there are more Americans locked up than Chinise. How can this happen in the
    "Land of the Free"?

    Why can Jim go to town and buy vodka, but if Joe goes and buys his drug of choice, pot, he can lose his freedom?

    Alcohol causes more deaths each year in Amercia than Fentanil, Cocain, herion and methdone combined.

    Our drug laws finance the cartels I know they have branched out lately but drugs are still their bread and butter. I could grow a bale of pot and sell it for 10 dollars and make a good profit. Thats it real value. But when you make it illegal it sells for thousands times that. Why? Our laws. Drop the price down to $10 dollars a bale and the drug part of the cartels disappear.. Same holds true of other drugs.

    Think back high school. Most kids smoked at least a little. Did it being legal or illegal make that much difference? It didnt back in Midway in the late 70's. But the law ruined a lot of lives.


    ATL Bear
    How long do you want to ignore this user?
    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
    Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
    Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
    America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?


    Never touched stuff. The difference between us is that make rules for myslef. You seem to want to make rules for others. I dont. Your way supports cartels, violence and Americas proson industry. Mine doesnt.
    You write like you're touching the stuff right now.

    If you don't believe in rules for others, then you are anti-civilization. That's apparently the real difference between you and I - I'm for having a civilization.

    Saying that the cartels, violence, and prisons are supported by having laws against certain behavior, is like saying the sex trafficking industry is supported by laws against rape. It's ridiculous, distorted thinking.


    Throughout most of history most civilizations did not declare war on its citizens. Incarceration rates by country:

    [ol]
  • United States 629
  • Rwanda 580
  • Turkmenistan 576
  • El Salvador 564
  • Cuba 510
  • Palau 478
  • British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) 477
  • Thailand 445
  • Panama 423
  • Saint Kitts and Nevis 423
  • [/ol]
    Notice where the USA, "Land of the Free" ranks. We have a gool lead of Rawanda. I think its an embarrassing stat. Are you chanting "We're number 1, We're number 1"? Land of the Free.

    Our war on drugs is the biggest part of this. We legalize vodka rum amd whiskey, but arrest others for their drug of choice. See Busy Tarp, I back my ideas with facts while you name call. China has a bigger population but we tonight there are more Americans locked up than Chinise. How can this happen in the
    "Land of the Free"?

    Why can Jim go to town and buy vodka, but if Joe goes and buys his drug of choice, pot, he can lose his freedom?

    Alcohol causes more deaths each year in Amercia than Fentanil, Cocain, herion and methdone combined.

    Our drug laws finance the cartels I know they have branched out lately but drugs are still their bread and butter. I could grow a bale of pot and sell it for 10 dollars and make a good profit. Thats it real value. But when you make it illegal it sells for thousands times that. Why? Our laws. Drop the price down to $10 dollars a bale and the drug part of the cartels disappear.. Same holds true of other drugs.

    Think back high school. Most kids smoked at least a little. Did it being legal or illegal make that much difference? It didnt back in Midway in the late 70's. But the law ruined a lot of lives.



    Alcohol is more deadly only because of its legality and wider spread use, so that's not a good comparison. Incarceration rates for drugs has very little to do with simple possession or use, or even marijuana. So you'd have to advocate for legalization of all drugs for that to be reduced by any meaningful amount.

    I'm not necessarily against marijuana legalization, but let's not pretend it's a "harmless drug" and that it would/should not be heavily regulated (not free) or that the ancillary negative impacts of its use don't become a further burden on society (infringe on others). The unfortunate reality with this and many other freedoms is many people can't handle freedoms through personal restraint, and then government gets involved trying to resolve the problems by making it a collective infringement of other freedoms.
    ron.reagan
    How long do you want to ignore this user?
    ATL Bear said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

    Why are so many people afraid of other peoples freedom?
    Do you call that freedom? It seems more like a prison and a life sentence. And why wouldn't people be afraid of the mental destruction of large numbers of the population and what that would lead to?
    Drama much? How have other countries started to handle it? America, home of the free, imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation.
    America imprisons its criminals....so that makes the "prison" of drug use ok? Is this the pot talking?


    Never touched stuff. The difference between us is that make rules for myslef. You seem to want to make rules for others. I dont. Your way supports cartels, violence and Americas proson industry. Mine doesnt.
    You write like you're touching the stuff right now.

    If you don't believe in rules for others, then you are anti-civilization. That's apparently the real difference between you and I - I'm for having a civilization.

    Saying that the cartels, violence, and prisons are supported by having laws against certain behavior, is like saying the sex trafficking industry is supported by laws against rape. It's ridiculous, distorted thinking.


    Throughout most of history most civilizations did not declare war on its citizens. Incarceration rates by country:

    [ol]
  • United States 629
  • Rwanda 580
  • Turkmenistan 576
  • El Salvador 564
  • Cuba 510
  • Palau 478
  • British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) 477
  • Thailand 445
  • Panama 423
  • Saint Kitts and Nevis 423
  • [/ol]
    Notice where the USA, "Land of the Free" ranks. We have a gool lead of Rawanda. I think its an embarrassing stat. Are you chanting "We're number 1, We're number 1"? Land of the Free.

    Our war on drugs is the biggest part of this. We legalize vodka rum amd whiskey, but arrest others for their drug of choice. See Busy Tarp, I back my ideas with facts while you name call. China has a bigger population but we tonight there are more Americans locked up than Chinise. How can this happen in the
    "Land of the Free"?

    Why can Jim go to town and buy vodka, but if Joe goes and buys his drug of choice, pot, he can lose his freedom?

    Alcohol causes more deaths each year in Amercia than Fentanil, Cocain, herion and methdone combined.

    Our drug laws finance the cartels I know they have branched out lately but drugs are still their bread and butter. I could grow a bale of pot and sell it for 10 dollars and make a good profit. Thats it real value. But when you make it illegal it sells for thousands times that. Why? Our laws. Drop the price down to $10 dollars a bale and the drug part of the cartels disappear.. Same holds true of other drugs.

    Think back high school. Most kids smoked at least a little. Did it being legal or illegal make that much difference? It didnt back in Midway in the late 70's. But the law ruined a lot of lives.



    Alcohol is more deadly only because of its legality and wider spread use, so that's not a good comparison. Incarceration rates for drugs has very little to do with simple possession or use, or even marijuana. So you'd have to advocate for legalization of all drugs for that to be reduced by any meaningful amount.

    I'm not necessarily against marijuana legalization, but let's not pretend it's a "harmless drug" and that it would/should not be heavily regulated (not free) or that the ancillary negative impacts of its use don't become a further burden on society (infringe on others). The unfortunate reality with this and many other freedoms is many people can't handle freedoms through personal restraint, and then government gets involved trying to resolve the problems by making it a collective infringement of other freedoms.
    Sugar is much worse. It isn't even close. Very addicting and people are literally killing themselves with it. It is a huge drain on our medical industry (including dental). There is no doubt that regulating sugar use would be a huge net positive.

    Limited IQ Redneck in PU
    How long do you want to ignore this user?
    ATL and Ron, great post. I would also add that several sites claim nicotine is the most dangerous drug. Prohibition did not do much good back then and it wont now. The current laws are failing. Many youngsters have had a lot of damage done to their future. I knew a kid that had got pulled over, had his car seached, and got arrested for seeds in his console. He paid the fine and ent home. 6 years later he was applying for a job and discovered he had a criminal record.

    I am disappointed that so many Americans are in favor of a nanny state. Make your own decisions. Teach your children. Dont rely on the government. Its not working.

    Make "Land of the Free" mean something.
    Oldbear83
    How long do you want to ignore this user?
    I have never been comfortable, either with the attitude some towns/states have towards prison, nor with those who forget that there are quite a few nations likely lying about their incarceration rates.

    At least in the US, when you are arrested your family knows where you are sent while waiting for trial and if convicted, where you serve your time. There are a number of places where you can be arrested and no one knows where you are, or what happened to you.
    KaiBear
    How long do you want to ignore this user?
    Over 100,000 fatal drug overdoses last year alone, and some morons want to make the narcotics involved easier to obtain .

    So stupid .

    DancinBear09
    How long do you want to ignore this user?
    KaiBear said:

    Over 100,000 fatal drug overdoses last year alone, and some morons want to make the narcotics involved easier to obtain .

    So stupid .



    Show me the statistics on marijuana related overdoses. You are putting the carriage way in front of the horse here. Nobody is talking about legalizing hard drugs like cocaine or heroin on here. You are sensationalizing and conflating the issue at hand, which is marijuana legalization.
    Last Page
    Page 1 of 3
     
    ×
    subscribe Verify your student status
    See Subscription Benefits
    Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.