Why Are We in Ukraine?

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Redbrickbear
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Uh this old hag?


Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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Jack Bauer
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Biden, Haley, Lindsey, etc. please defend this.

KaiBear
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Anyone notice ?

Biden has agreed to give Ukraine LONG RANGE missiles.



Now just pretend the US is fighting its own 'police action' in Mexico and Russia is not only providing billions of dollars with which to kill US troops but then agrees to supply long range missiles to our adversaries.

Missiles that could easily reach cities in the US.


Really think we would just sit idly by indefintely ?


We are being led, step by step, into war with Russia.
By an 80 year old dementia case.





ATL Bear
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Jack Bauer said:

Biden, Haley, Lindsey, etc. please defend this.


It's hard to defend doing this now, particularly the farm and business subsidies. These are the types of things you do post conflict, not during the active conflict due to the risk of loss. If you look back at the Marshall Plan you'd see these types of programs. The first responder, mine finders, etc. allocation is a tossup as that's sort of an active conflict need, but I understand the optics being viewed as a negative.
ron.reagan
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ATL Bear said:

Jack Bauer said:

Biden, Haley, Lindsey, etc. please defend this.


It's hard to defend doing this now, particularly the farm and business subsidies. These are the types of things you do post conflict, not during the active conflict due to the risk of loss. If you look back at the Marshall Plan you'd see these types of programs. The first responder, mine finders, etc. allocation is a tossup as that's sort of an active conflict need, but I understand the optics being viewed as a negative.
It's hard to understand why all the mouth breathers are focused on aid to Ukraine and not all the other foreign aid. Daddy Tucker told you so I guess
ron.reagan
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KaiBear said:

Anyone notice ?

Biden has agreed to give Ukraine LONG RANGE missiles.



Now just pretend the US is fighting its own 'police action' in Mexico and Russia is not only providing billions of dollars with which to kill US troops but then agrees to supply long range missiles to our adversaries.

Missiles that could easily reach cities in the US.


Really think we would just sit idly by indefintely ?


We are being led, step by step, into war with Russia.
By an 80 year old dementia case.






Do you think that Russia hasn't already done this? How can you be 100 years old and not know this?
Redbrickbear
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We have to get more money to Ukraine.



ron.reagan
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Redbrickbear said:

We have to get more money to Ukraine.




With this logic you probably get back from a 20 minute walk and think you can eat a half dozen donuts
KaiBear
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ron.reagan said:

KaiBear said:

Anyone notice ?

Biden has agreed to give Ukraine LONG RANGE missiles.



Now just pretend the US is fighting its own 'police action' in Mexico and Russia is not only providing billions of dollars with which to kill US troops but then agrees to supply long range missiles to our adversaries.

Missiles that could easily reach cities in the US.


Really think we would just sit idly by indefintely ?


We are being led, step by step, into war with Russia.
By an 80 year old dementia case.






Do you think that Russia hasn't already done this? How can you be 100 years old and not know this?
How can you be 40 something and still be in debt up to your ass ?
ron.reagan
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KaiBear said:

ron.reagan said:

KaiBear said:

Anyone notice ?

Biden has agreed to give Ukraine LONG RANGE missiles.



Now just pretend the US is fighting its own 'police action' in Mexico and Russia is not only providing billions of dollars with which to kill US troops but then agrees to supply long range missiles to our adversaries.

Missiles that could easily reach cities in the US.


Really think we would just sit idly by indefintely ?


We are being led, step by step, into war with Russia.
By an 80 year old dementia case.






Do you think that Russia hasn't already done this? How can you be 100 years old and not know this?
How can you be 40 something and still be in debt up to your ass ?
That is only half way up. You really are a moron
Realitybites
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The good news is that Dementia Joe is only giving them 60 of the weaker cluster bomb DPICMS version. While this could pose a tactical danger to aircraft on the ground it isn't going to move the needle strategically when it comes to a future Russian victory.

As far as KIA vs casualties, the democrats/neocons have repeatedly said that 400,000 Ukrainians KiA is a fake number that only someone who doesn't know the difference between KIA and WIA would use.

Well, here is corroboration from a pro Ukrainian journalist courtesy of the SBU. That was 310,000 Ukrainians killed in action roughly 3 months ago before this latest ill fated offensive. So 400,000 now is a very good estimate.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg
whiterock
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Realitybites said:

The good news is that Dementia Joe is only giving them 60 of the weaker cluster bomb DPICMS version. While this could pose a tactical danger to aircraft on the ground it isn't going to move the needle strategically when it comes to a future Russian victory.

As far as KIA vs casualties, the democrats/neocons have repeatedly said that 400,000 Ukrainians KiA is a fake number that only someone who doesn't know the difference between KIA and WIA would use.

Well, here is corroboration from a pro Ukrainian journalist courtesy of the SBU. That was 310,000 Ukrainians killed in action roughly 3 months ago before this latest ill fated offensive. So 400,000 now is a very good estimate.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg
unsourced assertion that is 3x publicly available data, which is pretty uniformly in the 500k range for "casualties." And Ukraine has quite good casevac procedures all the way to urban hospitals, so their KIA ratios will be substantially better than Russia's.

If you really believe what you are citing, you have been wildly mislead. The Ukrainian offensive is yielding casualty rates vis-a-vis Russia not unlike the ratios Uke experienced while on defense this winter/spring. They use small units to infiltrate small sections of trench (which do involve high casualty rates in those very small units), which provokes immediate larger-scale counter-attacks from Russia into the teeth of prepared Ukrainian artillery, which has fire-superiority over Russia.

The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver. In any event, Uke has penetrated the main defensive line near Verbove and is now operating behind it. Another 20 miles of advance by Thanksgiving, which is quite plausible, and Uke will have effectively severed the land bridge, with all highways and rails to Melitopol falling under Uke arty umbrella. As bad as it is for Russia right now, wait until winter. Uke is well supplied with intact lines of supply; Russia is neither. Russian soldiers are going to be freezing (literally) in the trenches by Christmas.

Bear8084
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Realitybites said:

The good news is that Dementia Joe is only giving them 60 of the weaker cluster bomb DPICMS version. While this could pose a tactical danger to aircraft on the ground it isn't going to move the needle strategically when it comes to a future Russian victory.

As far as KIA vs casualties, the democrats/neocons have repeatedly said that 400,000 Ukrainians KiA is a fake number that only someone who doesn't know the difference between KIA and WIA would use.

Well, here is corroboration from a pro Ukrainian journalist courtesy of the SBU. That was 310,000 Ukrainians killed in action roughly 3 months ago before this latest ill fated offensive. So 400,000 now is a very good estimate.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg


No. Take the tinfoil off.
whiterock
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ATL Bear said:

Jack Bauer said:

Biden, Haley, Lindsey, etc. please defend this.


It's hard to defend doing this now, particularly the farm and business subsidies. These are the types of things you do post conflict, not during the active conflict due to the risk of loss. If you look back at the Marshall Plan you'd see these types of programs. The first responder, mine finders, etc. allocation is a tossup as that's sort of an active conflict need, but I understand the optics being viewed as a negative.
this is not really new. Generally speaking, the majority of the hard cash being spent is in aid like this. The military portion is in large part non-cash. All the big-ticket hardware (tanks, arty systems, etc....) are already paid for, slated for retirement into storage or scrap. The "cost" of the "aid" is just an accounting entry to write the equipment off our books. In many cases, the "gift" actually saves us money. Many of the Bradleys were already in storage. And gifting allows us to avoid the cost of de-mil on ordnance, which on more sophisticated systems can involve 5-digit numbers EACH ROUND to render safe.

Yes, the numbers are big.
Yes, it is frustrating Biden is willing to spend it in Ukraine and not on our border.
But that itself does not undermine the need for spending it in Ukraine.
We need to do BOTH.
Realitybites
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Yes, the numbers are big.

Yes, it is frustrating Biden is willing to spend it in Ukraine and not on our border.
But that itself does not undermine the need for spending it in Ukraine.
We need to do BOTH.

30 Trillion in Debt = Zero dollars to Ukraine.

Thanks for playing.

And Ukraine has quite good casevac procedures all the way to urban hospitals, so their KIA ratios will be substantially better than Russia's...The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver.

This is complete nonsense. You've completely reversed the description of the actual situation on the ground.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

The good news is that Dementia Joe is only giving them 60 of the weaker cluster bomb DPICMS version. While this could pose a tactical danger to aircraft on the ground it isn't going to move the needle strategically when it comes to a future Russian victory.

As far as KIA vs casualties, the democrats/neocons have repeatedly said that 400,000 Ukrainians KiA is a fake number that only someone who doesn't know the difference between KIA and WIA would use.

Well, here is corroboration from a pro Ukrainian journalist courtesy of the SBU. That was 310,000 Ukrainians killed in action roughly 3 months ago before this latest ill fated offensive. So 400,000 now is a very good estimate.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg
unsourced assertion that is 3x publicly available data, which is pretty uniformly in the 500k range for "casualties." And Ukraine has quite good casevac procedures all the way to urban hospitals, so their KIA ratios will be substantially better than Russia's.

If you really believe what you are citing, you have been wildly mislead. The Ukrainian offensive is yielding casualty rates vis-a-vis Russia not unlike the ratios Uke experienced while on defense this winter/spring. They use small units to infiltrate small sections of trench (which do involve high casualty rates in those very small units), which provokes immediate larger-scale counter-attacks from Russia into the teeth of prepared Ukrainian artillery, which has fire-superiority over Russia.

The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver. In any event, Uke has penetrated the main defensive line near Verbove and is now operating behind it. Another 20 miles of advance by Thanksgiving, which is quite plausible, and Uke will have effectively severed the land bridge, with all highways and rails to Melitopol falling under Uke arty umbrella. As bad as it is for Russia right now, wait until winter. Uke is well supplied with intact lines of supply; Russia is neither. Russian soldiers are going to be freezing (literally) in the trenches by Christmas.


This is laugh-out-loud funny…pure propaganda without shame.
ron.reagan
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Realitybites said:

Yes, the numbers are big.

Yes, it is frustrating Biden is willing to spend it in Ukraine and not on our border.
But that itself does not undermine the need for spending it in Ukraine.
We need to do BOTH.

30 Trillion in Debt = Zero dollars to Ukraine.

Thanks for playing.

The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver.

This is complete nonsense. You've completely reversed the description of the actual situation on the ground.
Captain big brains over here found a way to get rid of 30 trillion in debt. Let Ukraine get rolled and it all goes away.
Bear8084
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

The good news is that Dementia Joe is only giving them 60 of the weaker cluster bomb DPICMS version. While this could pose a tactical danger to aircraft on the ground it isn't going to move the needle strategically when it comes to a future Russian victory.

As far as KIA vs casualties, the democrats/neocons have repeatedly said that 400,000 Ukrainians KiA is a fake number that only someone who doesn't know the difference between KIA and WIA would use.

Well, here is corroboration from a pro Ukrainian journalist courtesy of the SBU. That was 310,000 Ukrainians killed in action roughly 3 months ago before this latest ill fated offensive. So 400,000 now is a very good estimate.

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F57819f25-1bb3-4e39-8d4d-1d6df4c0f281_748x776.jpeg
unsourced assertion that is 3x publicly available data, which is pretty uniformly in the 500k range for "casualties." And Ukraine has quite good casevac procedures all the way to urban hospitals, so their KIA ratios will be substantially better than Russia's.

If you really believe what you are citing, you have been wildly mislead. The Ukrainian offensive is yielding casualty rates vis-a-vis Russia not unlike the ratios Uke experienced while on defense this winter/spring. They use small units to infiltrate small sections of trench (which do involve high casualty rates in those very small units), which provokes immediate larger-scale counter-attacks from Russia into the teeth of prepared Ukrainian artillery, which has fire-superiority over Russia.

The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver. In any event, Uke has penetrated the main defensive line near Verbove and is now operating behind it. Another 20 miles of advance by Thanksgiving, which is quite plausible, and Uke will have effectively severed the land bridge, with all highways and rails to Melitopol falling under Uke arty umbrella. As bad as it is for Russia right now, wait until winter. Uke is well supplied with intact lines of supply; Russia is neither. Russian soldiers are going to be freezing (literally) in the trenches by Christmas.


This is laugh-out-loud funny…pure propaganda without shame.


LOL coming from you vatnik, that's hilarious.
Bear8084
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Realitybites said:

Yes, the numbers are big.

Yes, it is frustrating Biden is willing to spend it in Ukraine and not on our border.
But that itself does not undermine the need for spending it in Ukraine.
We need to do BOTH.

30 Trillion in Debt = Zero dollars to Ukraine.

Thanks for playing.

The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver.

This is complete nonsense. You've completely reversed the description of the actual situation on the ground.


The only nonsense is whatever crazy vatnik conspiracy theories you post.
Redbrickbear
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Bear8084 said:

Realitybites said:

Yes, the numbers are big.

Yes, it is frustrating Biden is willing to spend it in Ukraine and not on our border.
But that itself does not undermine the need for spending it in Ukraine.
We need to do BOTH.

30 Trillion in Debt = Zero dollars to Ukraine.

Thanks for playing.

The Uke tactics I describe are well-documented. The Uke counter-offensive is designed more to attrit Russian troops/materiel than slice thru in a combined arms maneuver.

This is complete nonsense. You've completely reversed the description of the actual situation on the ground.


The only nonsense is whatever crazy vatnik conspiracy theories you post.

Congress said they could not spend $10 billion on a border wall to defend the people of the USA.

Since the start of the war we have spend at least $75 billion on Ukraine.

That is not a conspiracy theory...its a horrific fact that tells us what the priorities of the D.C. class are...

"Since the war began, the Biden administration and the U.S. Congress have directed more than $75 billion in assistance to Ukraine"

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
Redbrickbear
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whiterock said:

ATL Bear said:

Jack Bauer said:

Biden, Haley, Lindsey, etc. please defend this.


It's hard to defend doing this now, particularly the farm and business subsidies. These are the types of things you do post conflict, not during the active conflict due to the risk of loss. If you look back at the Marshall Plan you'd see these types of programs. The first responder, mine finders, etc. allocation is a tossup as that's sort of an active conflict need, but I understand the optics being viewed as a negative.

Yes, the numbers are big.
Yes, it is frustrating Biden is willing to spend it in Ukraine and not on our border.
But that itself does not undermine the need for spending it in Ukraine.
We need to do BOTH.


But we are not doing both....that is the whole point.

Our leaders are spending money fighting the Russians over some frozen tundra and rusting out ex-Soviet towns in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine... somewhere that almost no American had ever heard of before a few years ago.

While they let 200,000+ 3rd worlders pour over our border every single month.

The idea that the average middle class American should support the continuation of this monstrous situation is unreasonable.
Redbrickbear
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KaiBear
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ron.reagan said:

KaiBear said:

ron.reagan said:

KaiBear said:

Anyone notice ?

Biden has agreed to give Ukraine LONG RANGE missiles.



Now just pretend the US is fighting its own 'police action' in Mexico and Russia is not only providing billions of dollars with which to kill US troops but then agrees to supply long range missiles to our adversaries.

Missiles that could easily reach cities in the US.


Really think we would just sit idly by indefintely ?


We are being led, step by step, into war with Russia.
By an 80 year old dementia case.






Do you think that Russia hasn't already done this? How can you be 100 years old and not know this?
How can you be 40 something and still be in debt up to your ass ?
That is only half way up. You really are a moron
CIB in the closet and 12 million clear.

Meanwhile all the 'combat' clerk has is debt and a keyboard.

Gotta luv the internet.
Redbrickbear
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ron.reagan
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KaiBear said:

ron.reagan said:

KaiBear said:

ron.reagan said:

KaiBear said:

Anyone notice ?

Biden has agreed to give Ukraine LONG RANGE missiles.



Now just pretend the US is fighting its own 'police action' in Mexico and Russia is not only providing billions of dollars with which to kill US troops but then agrees to supply long range missiles to our adversaries.

Missiles that could easily reach cities in the US.


Really think we would just sit idly by indefintely ?


We are being led, step by step, into war with Russia.
By an 80 year old dementia case.






Do you think that Russia hasn't already done this? How can you be 100 years old and not know this?
How can you be 40 something and still be in debt up to your ass ?
That is only half way up. You really are a moron
CIB in the closet and 12 million clear.

Meanwhile all the 'combat' clerk has is debt and a keyboard.

Gotta luv the internet.
Where people on their death bed brag about their imaginary money
whiterock
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Food for thought……
https://newcriterion.com/blogs/dispatch/the-adams-triangle-13652
Redbrickbear
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whiterock
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Redbrickbear said:



Ratifies what I've been saying about Russian intentions….

Russia caused what's happening now. THEY invaded. THEY caused the westward advance of NATO. They DID have options. But they miscalculated and as a result are likely to have pieces of their anatomy handed to them.

It does not matter what are Russian interests if they do not have the power to defend them. And they don't.
trey3216
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whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:



Ratifies what I've been saying about Russian intentions….

Russia caused what's happening now. THEY invaded. THEY caused the westward advance of NATO. They DID have options. But they miscalculated and as a result are likely to have pieces of their anatomy handed to them.

It does not matter what are Russian interests if they do not have the power to defend them. And they don't.


Poor Russia…2000km of flat lands to defend….well, don't threaten every neighbor around you, don't invade them, don't corrupt their governments with planted parties, don't rape their women and thieve their children. I'd bet that 2000km border would be fairly docile if so. Canada ain't invading the US, nor are we invading Canada.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Redbrickbear
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trey3216 said:

whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:



Ratifies what I've been saying about Russian intentions….

Russia caused what's happening now. THEY invaded. THEY caused the westward advance of NATO. They DID have options. But they miscalculated and as a result are likely to have pieces of their anatomy handed to them.

It does not matter what are Russian interests if they do not have the power to defend them. And they don't.


Poor Russia…2000km of flat lands to defend….well, don't threaten every neighbor around you, don't invade them, don't corrupt their governments with planted parties, don't rape their women and thieve their children. I'd bet that 2000km border would be fairly docile if so. Canada ain't invading the US, nor are we invading Canada.


Yea they should be more like us….we have a 2000+km border and we just don't bother defending it so….


trey3216
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Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:



Ratifies what I've been saying about Russian intentions….

Russia caused what's happening now. THEY invaded. THEY caused the westward advance of NATO. They DID have options. But they miscalculated and as a result are likely to have pieces of their anatomy handed to them.

It does not matter what are Russian interests if they do not have the power to defend them. And they don't.


Poor Russia…2000km of flat lands to defend….well, don't threaten every neighbor around you, don't invade them, don't corrupt their governments with planted parties, don't rape their women and thieve their children. I'd bet that 2000km border would be fairly docile if so. Canada ain't invading the US, nor are we invading Canada.


Yea they should be more like us….we have a 2000+km border and we just don't bother defending it so….





So you'd rather we cross over into Mexico and take matters into our own hands? That's Russia's M.O.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Redbrickbear
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trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:



Ratifies what I've been saying about Russian intentions….

Russia caused what's happening now. THEY invaded. THEY caused the westward advance of NATO. They DID have options. But they miscalculated and as a result are likely to have pieces of their anatomy handed to them.

It does not matter what are Russian interests if they do not have the power to defend them. And they don't.


Poor Russia…2000km of flat lands to defend….well, don't threaten every neighbor around you, don't invade them, don't corrupt their governments with planted parties, don't rape their women and thieve their children. I'd bet that 2000km border would be fairly docile if so. Canada ain't invading the US, nor are we invading Canada.


Yea they should be more like us….we have a 2000+km border and we just don't bother defending it so….





So you'd rather we cross over into Mexico and take matters into our own hands? That's Russia's M.O.


We did it before…of course that was when we had a government that was not actively hostile towards its native populace.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition




Sam Lowry
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trey3216 said:

Redbrickbear said:

trey3216 said:

whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:



Ratifies what I've been saying about Russian intentions….

Russia caused what's happening now. THEY invaded. THEY caused the westward advance of NATO. They DID have options. But they miscalculated and as a result are likely to have pieces of their anatomy handed to them.

It does not matter what are Russian interests if they do not have the power to defend them. And they don't.


Poor Russia…2000km of flat lands to defend….well, don't threaten every neighbor around you, don't invade them, don't corrupt their governments with planted parties, don't rape their women and thieve their children. I'd bet that 2000km border would be fairly docile if so. Canada ain't invading the US, nor are we invading Canada.


Yea they should be more like us….we have a 2000+km border and we just don't bother defending it so….





So you'd rather we cross over into Mexico and take matters into our own hands? That's Russia's M.O.
Yes, we've been oh so tolerant of Russia's efforts to transform Mexico into a client state and use it as a military proxy to overthrow our regime. Why can't we all just get along.
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