Realitybites said:

---

We have forced Moscow to ally with Beijing.

An ex-communist, Christian nationalist state that is building chapels at highway rest areas is not the natural ally of a fascist oriental state with a much larger population on its eastern border.

---

Putin uses the church the same way Mussolini did in Italy. Not as a sense of religious duty, but a mechanism to shape public perception of the regime. Just the fact you combine Christian and Nationalism should tell you that.

ATL Bear said:

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Realitybites said:

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We have forced Moscow to ally with Beijing.

An ex-communist, Christian nationalist state that is building chapels at highway rest areas is not the natural ally of a fascist oriental state with a much larger population on its eastern border.

---

Putin uses the church the same way Mussolini did in Italy. Not as a sense of religious duty, but a mechanism to shape public perception of the regime. Just the fact you combine Christian and Nationalism should tell you that.

---

You're forgetting that Marxism/communism destroyed just about every institution and tradition in Russia.

The Russian Orthodox Church is the last standing institution/tradition/entity with any link to the history of the Russian slavic people or with any legitimacy.

Putin (ex-KGB agnostic) has to turn to the Church for support because the communists destroyed everything else.

This man is a Senator…wow

Fuck that https://t.co/DjC2WXS8l1

— Senator John Fetterman (@SenFettermanPA) October 23, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

We have forced Moscow to ally with Beijing.

An ex-communist, Christian nationalist state that is building chapels at highway rest areas is not the natural ally of a fascist oriental state with a much larger population on its eastern border.

---

Putin uses the church the same way Mussolini did in Italy. Not as a sense of religious duty, but a mechanism to shape public perception of the regime. Just the fact you combine Christian and Nationalism should tell you that.

---

You're forgetting that Marxism/communism destroyed just about every institution and tradition in Russia.

The Russian Orthodox Church is the last standing institution/tradition/entity with any link to the history of the Russian slavic people or with any legitimacy.

Putin (ex-KGB agnostic) has to turn to the Church for support because the communists destroyed everything else.

---

That is all well and good, but the Russian Orthodox Church has now made themselves a military target. So Ukraine was right to shut down the Church in Kyiv?

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Just curious ... asking for a unicorn I know .. who can make the affirmative case that artificially funding Ukraine's economy serves what national interests of the U.S.?

---

Maybe I am a Reagan Cold War guy, but I agreed with Scott and Haley last night on Ukraine. Anything we do to weaken Putin is good for US.

---

Reagan couldn't disagree more. Biden is undoing everything that he accomplished.

---

Reagan would stand by and let Putin invade Ukraine? Grenada/Iran-Contra Ron would have said, we are out let Russia have Ukraine? After he worked to get Ukrainian independence. Yeah.

I served why Ronnie was President. You know how many times we (82nd Abn) got ready to deploy and sit at Pope Air Field so the satellites could get a good look? You think he was bluffing? I don't, the officers and AF personnel managing our aircraft didn't. Sitting in a stick on a tarmac for 8 hours is no fun. This happened that I can remember with Libya and Poland. Every EDRE was a satellite opportunity to show strength and he used it. Reagan also supplies Afghan Rebels and Solidarity in Poland. Reagan would not stand by and let Putin do this.

---

He wouldn't have to. Reagan never would have put us in this situation to begin with. Read up on his dealings with Gorbachev and how he worked for peace despite the skepticism of his advisers.

---

....and against the advice of his advisors proceeded with SDI, walked out of a summit in Reykjavik, stood in front of the Brandenburg Gate and demanded "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Reagan pushed the Soviets harder than any POTUS before him or since.

---

He believed in peace through strength. There are too many people who can only understand half the equation.

---

Exactly. We denied Ukraine the means to adequate deterrence. Look what happened.

---

Ooo, so close.

We denied Ukraine their elected president and installed a thug instead.

But you have never, ever, even shown what direct American interest is involved in this war. Are you getting something out of this?

whiterock said:

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trey3216 said:

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But....But...But.....That Christian nation that is Russia!!!

The Kremlin-linked Russian Orthodox Church is building and running private military companies (PMC), which recruit and train fighters for deployment in Ukraine, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) reported on Oct. 19: https://t.co/BwcGABLuZv pic.twitter.com/u66XiWY1kD

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) October 20, 2023

---

Templar Knights, Teutonic Order, Hospitallers, etc...... What's old is new.

---

Its obvious that Westerners have been systematically denied the learning of their own history....or else they would remember that for most of Western Christianity existence it has had martial orders.

At least 5 large international orders and many smaller national ones.

Fighting the Muslims to free Spain and in the Holy Land for centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_order_(religious_society)

Western aversion to the mixing of Church and Military is a recent invention (post 1600s) and the idea of only civil authorities wielding the powers of war making also new.

In this case...its more of a innovation for the Eastern Orthodox who historically had a far less active war making clergy...and again an example of the rather pathetic state of the Russian military that it must turn to Bishops to help them fight a war.

The U.K. does not need the Church of England to raise regiments for them...France does not need the Pope's Swiss Guards...and the USA does not need the LDS in Salt Lake or the Methodist Bishops to help them fight overseas.

That is more than anything extremely embarrassing for the Russian government.

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

trey3216 said:

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But....But...But.....That Christian nation that is Russia!!!

The Kremlin-linked Russian Orthodox Church is building and running private military companies (PMC), which recruit and train fighters for deployment in Ukraine, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) reported on Oct. 19: https://t.co/BwcGABLuZv pic.twitter.com/u66XiWY1kD

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) October 20, 2023

---

Templar Knights, Teutonic Order, Hospitallers, etc...... What's old is new.

---

Its obvious that Westerners have been systematically denied the learning of their own history....or else they would remember that for most of Western Christianity existence it has had martial orders.

At least 5 large international orders and many smaller national ones.

Fighting the Muslims to free Spain and in the Holy Land for centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_order_(religious_society)

Western aversion to the mixing of Church and Military is a recent invention (post 1600s) and the idea of only civil authorities wielding the powers of war making also new.

In this case...its more of a innovation for the Eastern Orthodox who historically had a far less active war making clergy...and again an example of the rather pathetic state of the Russian military that it must turn to Bishops to help them fight a war.

The U.K. does not need the Church of England to raise regiments for them...France does not need the Pope's Swiss Guards...and the USA does not need the LDS in Salt Lake or the Methodist Bishops to help them fight overseas.

That is more than anything extremely embarrassing for the Russian government.

---

... and an advancement.

quash said:

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whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Just curious ... asking for a unicorn I know .. who can make the affirmative case that artificially funding Ukraine's economy serves what national interests of the U.S.?

---

Maybe I am a Reagan Cold War guy, but I agreed with Scott and Haley last night on Ukraine. Anything we do to weaken Putin is good for US.

---

Reagan couldn't disagree more. Biden is undoing everything that he accomplished.

---

Reagan would stand by and let Putin invade Ukraine? Grenada/Iran-Contra Ron would have said, we are out let Russia have Ukraine? After he worked to get Ukrainian independence. Yeah.

I served why Ronnie was President. You know how many times we (82nd Abn) got ready to deploy and sit at Pope Air Field so the satellites could get a good look? You think he was bluffing? I don't, the officers and AF personnel managing our aircraft didn't. Sitting in a stick on a tarmac for 8 hours is no fun. This happened that I can remember with Libya and Poland. Every EDRE was a satellite opportunity to show strength and he used it. Reagan also supplies Afghan Rebels and Solidarity in Poland. Reagan would not stand by and let Putin do this.

---

He wouldn't have to. Reagan never would have put us in this situation to begin with. Read up on his dealings with Gorbachev and how he worked for peace despite the skepticism of his advisers.

---

....and against the advice of his advisors proceeded with SDI, walked out of a summit in Reykjavik, stood in front of the Brandenburg Gate and demanded "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Reagan pushed the Soviets harder than any POTUS before him or since.

---

He believed in peace through strength. There are too many people who can only understand half the equation.

---

Exactly. We denied Ukraine the means to adequate deterrence. Look what happened.

---

Ooo, so close.

We denied Ukraine their elected president and installed a thug instead.

But you have never, ever, even shown what direct American interest is involved in this war. Are you getting something out of this?

---

LOL there you stand, "always wrong, never in doubt...."

Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate (basically 100% controlled by the Russian Orthodox Church) doing some dirty work for their Russian overlords...

And folks wonder why Ukraine wants them silenced during wartime...

⚡️One of the smugglers who tried to sell "Scythian gold" in Spain turned out to be a representative of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (MP), the SSU.

Employees of the SSU, together with the Spanish police, neutralized a group that illegally exported 11 gold objects of cultural… pic.twitter.com/tRoT457r2y

— FLASH (@Flash_news_ua) October 24, 2023

Hope the CIA has learned something since the 1960s......


Buying allies is the least effective long term plan

Redbrickbear said:

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Hope the CIA has learned something since the 1960s......


Buying allies is the least effective long term plan

---

Buying allies is the oldest business model of all. And as long as your timeframe is reasonable, i.e. not forever, it works quite well.

the modern model of ideological alliances is very new. Started with the Napoleonic age. But not everyone is France, or America. There are a lot of Ugandas and Uruguays out there. And they can be had. They will be had. The price depends on how valuable is their geography. No chance South Korea doesn't find a way to hook up with USA. Leaders in Seoul will come and go, but given the geography they have to work with, getting cozy with USA is the only choice they have.

It is what it is.

Redbrickbear said:

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Hope the CIA has learned something since the 1960s......


Buying allies is the least effective long term plan

---

What other way is there that is acceptable???? You don't like mutual defense. You don't want changes in leadership. You don't want supporting their goals - see Ukraine. So, what is the effective long term plan? In-breeding, like US and UK?

You think China's Road and Belt isn't bribing? We did that and that wasn't acceptable.

Great book for you, read the original...

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: Perkins, John: 9780452287082: Amazon.com: Books

lol...

Never drink anything near Putin pic.twitter.com/mQy8IjDbXS

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) October 26, 2023

The above posts regarding the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church are totally false. They are not recruiting soldiers for Russia. In fact, as of the following an official church council held at the Feofaniia convent in Kyiv, it was announced that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church had declared its full independence and autonomy from the Moscow Patriarchate.

The Kiev independent is a mouthpiece for the Zelensky government and is about as reliable a source as Pravda was in 1960 or the Washington Post is today.

https://rumble.com/v3ry896-tucker-on-x-episode-34-bob-amsterdam-religion-in-ukraine-tucker-carlson.html

More telling is that the world's other Orthodox churches from Japan to Serbia to Antioch are still in communion with and recognize the original Ukrainian Orthodox Church and not Zelensky's state church.

Realitybites said:

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The above posts regarding the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church are totally false. The Kiev independent is a mouthpiece for the Zelensky government and is about as reliable a source as Pravda was in 1960 or the Washington Post is today.

https://rumble.com/v3ry896-tucker-on-x-episode-34-bob-amsterdam-religion-in-ukraine-tucker-carlson.html

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

Realitybites said:

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The above posts regarding the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church are totally false.

---

They are not.

Bear8084 said:

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Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

You can't possibly think a tweet from "The Kiev Independent" is a more reliable source than Tucker Carlson.

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

You can't possibly think a tweet from "The Kiev Independent" is a more reliable source than Tucker Carlson.

---

LOL. You can't possibly think Carlson is any kind of reliable source.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9-2023

"The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41]The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church's subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia's initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42]Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43]One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Luhansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44]Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military's success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill's health.[45]Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46]Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities. "

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

You can't possibly think a tweet from "The Kiev Independent" is a more reliable source than Tucker Carlson.

---

Tucker who's regularly on RT, or Tucker who's just asking questions?

trey3216 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

You can't possibly think a tweet from "The Kiev Independent" is a more reliable source than Tucker Carlson.

---

Tucker who's regularly on RT…

---

How many times has Tucker actually been on RT?

Just for the record.

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

You can't possibly think a tweet from "The Kiev Independent" is a more reliable source than Tucker Carlson.

---

LOL. You can't possibly think Carlson is any kind of reliable source.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9-2023

"The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41]The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church's subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia's initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42]Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43]One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Luhansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44]Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military's success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill's health.[45]Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46]Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities. "

---

People believe the 'news' sources that reflective their preconceived biases.

KaiBear said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

You can't possibly think a tweet from "The Kiev Independent" is a more reliable source than Tucker Carlson.

---

LOL. You can't possibly think Carlson is any kind of reliable source.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9-2023

"The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41]The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church's subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia's initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42]Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43]One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Luhansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44]Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military's success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill's health.[45]Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46]Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities. "

---

People believe the 'news' sources that reflective their preconceived biases.

---

Always has been that way….and the media has never been about objective "truth telling" it's always been about making money and shaping views.

At least there was a time in America where large cities had many multiple competing newspapers each aligned with a different ideological view and they were open about it.

You could grab 4 papers in the morning and get 4 different views on a war or policy matter…and in dealing with those view points come to your own conclusions

Believe it or not, being on RT is not some sort of scarlet letter. It is their regime media. CNN is our regime media. Collect facts from various sources and draw your own conclusions.

Bear8084 said:

---

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9-2023

"The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41]The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church's subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia's initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42]Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43]One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Luhansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44]Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military's success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill's health.[45]Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46]Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities. "

---

Since the initial sentence of your source is wrong, the rest can confidently be disregarded. Ukraine currently has an independent Orthodox Church in communion with Moscow and the rest of Orthodoxy (UOC), and a state church that Zelensky has set up with almost no support outside of Bart, the Ukrainian Government, the Vatican, and the US Deep State.

https://rumble.com/v3rkgya-colonel-douglas-macgregor-ukraine-cannot-win-this-war-its-time-to-negotiate.html

Some good analysis and sanity in a world where the democrats and neocons in DC are desperately trying to start World War 3.

Realitybites said:

---

Bear8084 said:

---

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-9-2023

"The UOC MP is not an independent religious organization but rather an extension of the Russian state and an instrument of Russian hybrid warfare.[41]The UOC MP is the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church's subordinate element in Ukraine. The UOC MP provided material support for Russia's initial invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in 2014.[42]Russian soldiers used UOC MP churches as military storage depots, garrisons, field hospitals, and even fighting positions during Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[43]One UOC MP priest in Lysychansk, Luhansk Oblast, collected information on his OCU clergy rivals and gave instructions to Russian soldiers to murder a Ukrainian priest.[44]Russian forces have reportedly gone out of their way to punish individual UOC MP priests in Ukraine who were not fully cooperative with Russian forces. Russian troops reportedly searched the UOC MP Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Melitopol in February 2023 to register UOC MP priests who refused to pray for the Russian military's success in Ukraine or for Russian Orthodox Church Head Patriarch Kirill's health.[45]Russian soldiers reportedly abducted a UOC MP priest who actively distributed humanitarian aid to Ukrainian civilians in Kherson City in April 2022.[46]Russia will continue to weaponize the UOC MP and religion to incite social tensions in Ukraine and influence battlefield realities. "

---

Since the initial sentence of your source is wrong

---

It's not.

Realitybites said:

---

https://rumble.com/v3rkgya-colonel-douglas-macgregor-ukraine-cannot-win-this-war-its-time-to-negotiate.html

Some good analysis and sanity in a world where the democrats and neocons in DC are desperately trying to start World War 3.

---

Pro-RU guy who is almost always wrong boosts Pro-RU talking points. Shocking.

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The above posts regarding the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church are totally false. The Kiev independent is a mouthpiece for the Zelensky government and is about as reliable a source as Pravda was in 1960 or the Washington Post is today.

https://rumble.com/v3ry896-tucker-on-x-episode-34-bob-amsterdam-religion-in-ukraine-tucker-carlson.html

---

Speaking of unreliable vatnik sources.....

---

LOL for sure. ROC has allied itself at the sternum of the Putin Regime which invaded Ukraine. Kudos to Zelensky for making the hard decisions to prevent Russia from using the UOC as a base for subversion.

Remember how, during the Trump years, people talked about returning policy-making to the grownups? Here's one of the grownups, national security adviser Jake Sullivan, sounding like a 6-year-old.https://t.co/LAWwkvDPoy pic.twitter.com/pFiGWxkY8V

— Doug Henwood (@DougHenwood) October 29, 2023

Zelenskyy aide on corruption in Ukraine: 'People are stealing like there's no tomorrow' https://t.co/DGjlo7PYej

— Fox News (@FoxNews) October 31, 2023

Well, some good news. Russian forces have nearly encircled and cut off the Ukrainian garrison at Avdeevka and once it surrenders a lynchpin of the Ukrainian forces in Donbass will be gone. Hopefully Victoria Nuland's war is over by the end of 2024 and Zelensky - as well as our own diseased administration and their apparatchiks - are history.

Realitybites said:

---

Well, some good news. Russian forces have nearly encircled and cut off the Ukrainian garrison at Avdeevka and once it surrenders a lynchpin of the Ukrainian forces in Donbass will be gone. Hopefully Victoria Nuland's war is over by the end of 2024 and Zelensky - as well as our own diseased administration and their apparatchiks - are history.

---

They haven't, vatnik. The rest of the post is just full of ignorance.

Bear8084 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Well, some good news. Russian forces have nearly encircled and cut off the Ukrainian garrison at Avdeevka and once it surrenders a lynchpin of the Ukrainian forces in Donbass will be gone. Hopefully Victoria Nuland's war is over by the end of 2024 and Zelensky - as well as our own diseased administration and their apparatchiks - are history.

---

They haven't, vatnik. The rest of the post is just full of ignorance.

---

Yep. Watch & wait. UKR attacking over-extended Russian lines as we speak.

Meanwhile, UKR has established a beach-head on east bank of Dnieper across from Kherson......