Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
And they're back!Assassin said:
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20250415_22/
so the Europeans can do more, and will do more when it's clear we won't.Assassin said:The Economist reports that Pentagon officials have reached out an unspecified allied state, telling them to put an end to their continued arms supplies to Ukraine.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) April 16, 2025
The allied state rejected the request.
Some Trump aides are reportedly “fed up” with Europe’s Ukraine support pic.twitter.com/j1MEloKB5x
So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
Not so much from Trump's point of view. He'll soon have to decide whether to request more military aid, which will have one of two outcomes: 1) stop the aid and get blamed for losing the war or 2) continue the aid and get blamed for losing the war a little later on. He needs a peace deal in order to call it a win.whiterock said:so the Europeans can do more, and will do more when it's clear we won't.Assassin said:The Economist reports that Pentagon officials have reached out an unspecified allied state, telling them to put an end to their continued arms supplies to Ukraine.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) April 16, 2025
The allied state rejected the request.
Some Trump aides are reportedly “fed up” with Europe’s Ukraine support pic.twitter.com/j1MEloKB5x
#winning
Sam Lowry said:2) continue the aid and get blamed for losing the war a little later on. He needs a peace deal in order to call it a win.whiterock said:so the Europeans can do more, and will do more when it's clear we won't.Assassin said:The Economist reports that Pentagon officials have reached out an unspecified allied state, telling them to put an end to their continued arms supplies to Ukraine.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) April 16, 2025
The allied state rejected the request.
Some Trump aides are reportedly “fed up” with Europe’s Ukraine support pic.twitter.com/j1MEloKB5x
#winning
I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
Yeah, the difference between us is I don't buy either side's propaganda. As I have repeatedly said, Biden certainly helped provoke the conflict with his rhetoric.Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
Sure, Jan.Mothra said:Yeah, the difference between us is I don't buy either side's propaganda.Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
Given the snarky response, and the failure to respond to the substance of my post, I guess I hit a nerve.Sam Lowry said:Sure, Jan.Mothra said:Yeah, the difference between us is I don't buy either side's propaganda.Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
BREAKING:
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) April 17, 2025
Trump says he’s “not a big fan” of Zelensky.
He also repeated that Russia is a “much larger military force”
Talking about Zelensky, he stated: “if you're smart, you don't get involved in wars. I wouldn't say he's done the greatest job. I’m not a big fan” pic.twitter.com/lS7jqK5ju5
Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1) We can quibble over whether it's totalitarian or authoritarian (it displays both attributes, IMO), but that misses the point and is a distinction that has no bearing whatsoever on my main point.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1. Russia is not totalitarian (it's authoritarian and more of a kleptocracy)……N. Korea, Communist China, and Nazi germany are/were totalitarian.
"Do what we say" vs "you must think how we want you to think"
2. The idea is not ridiculous…it's just basic old real politic.
Super Powers and regional powers will intervene in their smaller vassal states…sovereignty of no sovereignty…always have and always will
(The USA of course has invaded lots of our neighbors in the Western hemisphere to secure our interests or security needs.)
The only way to stop that is for a greater power to intervene and use force
When the Ottoman Turks decided to invade Greece proper to put down a national liberation movement the British & French intervened to help the Greeks.
No one cried about fictional norms.
London and Paris decided to man up and step in and stop the slaughter with superior military force.
The USA bombed the Serbs to make them give up Kosovo.
Etc.
If you want the US or EU to intervene to save Ukraine from the Russians you should come out and say it.
Mothra said:1) We can quibble over whether it's totalitarian or authoritarian (it displays both attributes, IMO), but that misses the point and is a distinction that has no bearing whatsoever on my main point.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1. Russia is not totalitarian (it's authoritarian and more of a kleptocracy)……N. Korea, Communist China, and Nazi germany are/were totalitarian.
"Do what we say" vs "you must think how we want you to think"
2. The idea is not ridiculous…it's just basic old real politic.
Super Powers and regional powers will intervene in their smaller vassal states…sovereignty of no sovereignty…always have and always will
(The USA of course has invaded lots of our neighbors in the Western hemisphere to secure our interests or security needs.)
The only way to stop that is for a greater power to intervene and use force
When the Ottoman Turks decided to invade Greece proper to put down a national liberation movement the British & French intervened to help the Greeks.
No one cried about fictional norms.
London and Paris decided to man up and step in and stop the slaughter with superior military force.
The USA bombed the Serbs to make them give up Kosovo.
Etc.
If you want the US or EU to intervene to save Ukraine from the Russians you should come out and say it.
2) You've also misunderstood my second point. I am not saying that countries can't do such things in the sense that countries cannot physically invade other countries, or that such invasions have not happened throughout the course of history. I am saying that in today's world countries shouldn't do such things. That was a lesson we should've learned in Vietnam and certainly in Iraq.
What Russia is doing is wrong, and it's the reason they are considered a pariah in most of the free world (present company excluded of course).
I've stated my position on Ukraine many times, including a number of times on this thread. I believe we should be looking for a way to end the war, instead of perpetuating it. While I do not oppose some form of support militarily (i.e. providing some arms and weapons), that support should be made with an off ramp in mind. So, to be clear, I have come out and said it. You must not have been paying attention.
Perhaps it is you who should come out and say that you have no issue with Russia invading and annexing large swaths of a sovereign country. While I find that morally reprehensible, at least be honest about it.
1) Once again, you're missing the point and getting bogged down with red herrings, as you so often do on these boards. Whether its authoritarian or totalitarian is completely irrelevant to my point. Indeed, that is the very definition of "quibbling" - i.e. raising an objection about a trivial or irrelevant matter.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:1) We can quibble over whether it's totalitarian or authoritarian (it displays both attributes, IMO), but that misses the point and is a distinction that has no bearing whatsoever on my main point.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1. Russia is not totalitarian (it's authoritarian and more of a kleptocracy)……N. Korea, Communist China, and Nazi germany are/were totalitarian.
"Do what we say" vs "you must think how we want you to think"
2. The idea is not ridiculous…it's just basic old real politic.
Super Powers and regional powers will intervene in their smaller vassal states…sovereignty of no sovereignty…always have and always will
(The USA of course has invaded lots of our neighbors in the Western hemisphere to secure our interests or security needs.)
The only way to stop that is for a greater power to intervene and use force
When the Ottoman Turks decided to invade Greece proper to put down a national liberation movement the British & French intervened to help the Greeks.
No one cried about fictional norms.
London and Paris decided to man up and step in and stop the slaughter with superior military force.
The USA bombed the Serbs to make them give up Kosovo.
Etc.
If you want the US or EU to intervene to save Ukraine from the Russians you should come out and say it.
2) You've also misunderstood my second point. I am not saying that countries can't do such things in the sense that countries cannot physically invade other countries, or that such invasions have not happened throughout the course of history. I am saying that in today's world countries shouldn't do such things. That was a lesson we should've learned in Vietnam and certainly in Iraq.
What Russia is doing is wrong, and it's the reason they are considered a pariah in most of the free world (present company excluded of course).
I've stated my position on Ukraine many times, including a number of times on this thread. I believe we should be looking for a way to end the war, instead of perpetuating it. While I do not oppose some form of support militarily (i.e. providing some arms and weapons), that support should be made with an off ramp in mind. So, to be clear, I have come out and said it. You must not have been paying attention.
Perhaps it is you who should come out and say that you have no issue with Russia invading and annexing large swaths of a sovereign country. While I find that morally reprehensible, at least be honest about it.
1. There is no quibble
Authoritarian and totalitarian have definitions and are not the same. Russia is a classically authoritarian system.
[Authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom].
[Totalitarian: Totalitarianism is a political system and a form of government that prohibits opposition from political parties, disregards and outlaws the political claims of individual and group opposition to the state, and completely controls the public sphere and the private sphere of society. Often in service to an extreme and all encompassing ideology….the totalitarian government uses ideology to control most aspects of human life ]
2. Well there should not be cancer, or famines, or war at all.
But we live in the real world and not a utopian society.
Great powers like the USA and Russia will invade neighbors if they feel it's in their vital security interests to do so.
You have to decide if it's worth countering them with military force and war.
In the case of Ukraine I have no problem saying the risk that comes with trying to tear it out of the Russian orbit is high and of little upside to the USA…it's far from our traditional sphere of influence and of little geo strategic interests to us….its basically another Afghanistan/Vietnam/iraq…a outlying backwater that ends up costing us money and resources
Poland and Russia are destined to struggle over Ukraine (as they have in the past centuries)
It's a passing issue for us…not something we will be spending decades or centuries worrying about
Mothra said:1) Once again, you're missing the point and getting bogged down with red herrings, as you so often do on these boards. Whether its authoritarian or totalitarian is completely irrelevant to my point. Indeed, that is the very definition of "quibbling" - i.e. raising an objection about a trivial or irrelevant matter.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:1) We can quibble over whether it's totalitarian or authoritarian (it displays both attributes, IMO), but that misses the point and is a distinction that has no bearing whatsoever on my main point.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1. Russia is not totalitarian (it's authoritarian and more of a kleptocracy)……N. Korea, Communist China, and Nazi germany are/were totalitarian.
"Do what we say" vs "you must think how we want you to think"
2. The idea is not ridiculous…it's just basic old real politic.
Super Powers and regional powers will intervene in their smaller vassal states…sovereignty of no sovereignty…always have and always will
(The USA of course has invaded lots of our neighbors in the Western hemisphere to secure our interests or security needs.)
The only way to stop that is for a greater power to intervene and use force
When the Ottoman Turks decided to invade Greece proper to put down a national liberation movement the British & French intervened to help the Greeks.
No one cried about fictional norms.
London and Paris decided to man up and step in and stop the slaughter with superior military force.
The USA bombed the Serbs to make them give up Kosovo.
Etc.
If you want the US or EU to intervene to save Ukraine from the Russians you should come out and say it.
2) You've also misunderstood my second point. I am not saying that countries can't do such things in the sense that countries cannot physically invade other countries, or that such invasions have not happened throughout the course of history. I am saying that in today's world countries shouldn't do such things. That was a lesson we should've learned in Vietnam and certainly in Iraq.
What Russia is doing is wrong, and it's the reason they are considered a pariah in most of the free world (present company excluded of course).
I've stated my position on Ukraine many times, including a number of times on this thread. I believe we should be looking for a way to end the war, instead of perpetuating it. While I do not oppose some form of support militarily (i.e. providing some arms and weapons), that support should be made with an off ramp in mind. So, to be clear, I have come out and said it. You must not have been paying attention.
Perhaps it is you who should come out and say that you have no issue with Russia invading and annexing large swaths of a sovereign country. While I find that morally reprehensible, at least be honest about it.
1. There is no quibble
Authoritarian and totalitarian have definitions and are not the same. Russia is a classically authoritarian system.
[Authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom].
[Totalitarian: Totalitarianism is a political system and a form of government that prohibits opposition from political parties, disregards and outlaws the political claims of individual and group opposition to the state, and completely controls the public sphere and the private sphere of society. Often in service to an extreme and all encompassing ideology….the totalitarian government uses ideology to control most aspects of human life ]
2. Well there should not be cancer, or famines, or war at all.
But we live in the real world and not a utopian society.
Great powers like the USA and Russia will invade neighbors if they feel it's in their vital security interests to do so.
You have to decide if it's worth countering them with military force and war.
In the case of Ukraine I have no problem saying the risk that comes with trying to tear it out of the Russian orbit is high and of little upside to the USA…it's far from our traditional sphere of influence and of little geo strategic interests to us….its basically another Afghanistan/Vietnam/iraq…a outlying backwater that ends up costing us money and resources
Poland and Russia are destined to struggle over Ukraine (as they have in the past centuries)
It's a passing issue for us…not something we will be spending decades or centuries worrying about
2) I suspect we mostly agree with respect to whether we should be supporting Ukraine militarily and financially. But yet again, this subject is completely irrelevant to the point I was making. We can make a judgment call on whether Russia's actions were right or just - as I was doing - without concluding we should be supporting Ukraine militarily and financially. You seem to be confusing these two, separate issues.
Keep your eye on the ball.
We've already been discussing the substance of the NK issue. You evidently ran out of arguments and had to fall back on accusations of bias instead. I'm simply pointing out that I could accuse you of the same. But it would be boring and wouldn't prove much. If you have anything else of substance to add, feel free.Mothra said:Given the snarky response, and the failure to respond to the substance of my post, I guess I hit a nerve.Sam Lowry said:Sure, Jan.Mothra said:Yeah, the difference between us is I don't buy either side's propaganda.Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
Give him some slack for the typo. He was actually talking about RussiaBear8084 said:Sam Lowry said:2) continue the aid and get blamed for losing the war a little later on. He needs a peace deal in order to call it a win.whiterock said:so the Europeans can do more, and will do more when it's clear we won't.Assassin said:The Economist reports that Pentagon officials have reached out an unspecified allied state, telling them to put an end to their continued arms supplies to Ukraine.
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) April 16, 2025
The allied state rejected the request.
Some Trump aides are reportedly “fed up” with Europe’s Ukraine support pic.twitter.com/j1MEloKB5x
#winning
Nope.
Russian failure in Ukraine is good for literally everyone involved, except Russia. Not one state in theater.....not a single one....is supporting Russia, helping Russia to achieve victory, because Russian victory harms every one of them. Gotta go to the opposite sides of the Russian periphery (Iran, China, NoKo) to find a state which perceives policy benefit (diminished Western power) from active support for Russia.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:
Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1. Russia is not totalitarian (it's authoritarian and more of a kleptocracy)……N. Korea, Communist China, and Nazi germany are/were totalitarian.
"Do what we say" vs "you must think how we want you to think"
But at leastMussoliniPutin makes the trains run on time?
"She's only a little bit pregnant."
2. The idea is not ridiculous…it's just basic old real politic.
Super Powers and regional powers will intervene in their smaller vassal states…sovereignty of no sovereignty…always have and always will.
Shallow analysis which begs two fallacies: A) that those interventions are not objectively harmful to the interests of other powers, and B) that other powers should tolerate or facilitate those interventions just because the intervening state has an interest. If the intervening state is unable to impose its will, it should fail and deal with the consequences. And policy to help defeat that intervening state fail is presumptively good policy, as it weakens the intervening state, delaying any further expansion.
(The USA of course has invaded lots of our neighbors in the Western hemisphere to secure our interests or security needs.)
We have also tolerated foreign power influence in the Americas, to include defacto alliance and broad-based military relationships. And we have not invaded anyone for the purpose of subsuming the entire polity into ours, which is what Russia frequently does and was the explicit intent of their Ukraine invasion.
The only way to stop that is for a greater power to intervene and use force
Or to support the local government to resist.....
When the Ottoman Turks decided to invade Greece proper to put down a national liberation movement the British & French intervened to help the Greeks.
No one cried about fictional norms.
Because:
A) it was in the interest of the British & French not to allow Turkish power to expand in the Mediterranean, where it could pose a greater threat to British & French lines of trade & communication with colonial possessions.
B) Britain and France had the power to impose their will.
C) Turkey did not have the power to impose its will.
The example you cite is a direct analog to Russia's position in Ukraine. It does have an interest in subsuming Ukraine into Russian policy. It does have the will to do so. But it does not have the power to do so. And it is in the interest of Nato to frustrate and if possible defeat Russian efforts in Ukraine, as Russian success there would be a zero-sum increase of Russian threats to Nato.
London and Paris decided to man up and step in and stop the slaughter with superior military force.
The USA bombed the Serbs to make them give up Kosovo.
Etc.
If you want the US or EU to intervene to save Ukraine from the Russians you should come out and say it.
Uttered or not, the wisdom of trying to do so is obvious to any sober mind.
1) I believe it to be both to varying degrees. But that's completely irrelevant.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:1) Once again, you're missing the point and getting bogged down with red herrings, as you so often do on these boards. Whether its authoritarian or totalitarian is completely irrelevant to my point. Indeed, that is the very definition of "quibbling" - i.e. raising an objection about a trivial or irrelevant matter.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:1) We can quibble over whether it's totalitarian or authoritarian (it displays both attributes, IMO), but that misses the point and is a distinction that has no bearing whatsoever on my main point.Redbrickbear said:Mothra said:Sam Lowry said:I mean, I guess it's funny that you're supposedly against the war but still can't seem to get enough of Biden's propaganda. Even Trump correctly notes that Ukraine started the war, so I don't know how you see Russia as the aggressive regime.Mothra said:My bad. I forgot you always consider totalitarian regimes the "good guys" and the Western world the bad.Sam Lowry said:Exactly...that's why you always want to take Uke propaganda with a grain of salt.Mothra said:Yes, far be it from totalitarian and despotic regimes with something to lose to try and fool the rest of the free world. They've always been known for shooting straight.Sam Lowry said:As opposed to a massive conspiracy involving the Russians, the North Koreans, and now the Chinese?Mothra said:So, massive conspiracy involving multiple countries, the UN and NATO.Sam Lowry said:Sure, why not. They've floated every tale imaginable, maybe that one will fly. Speaking of conspiracy theories, supposedly the Norks were already so scared of Biden that they were disguising themselves in Russian uniforms, killing their own wounded, and burning the bodies to keep from being found out. All of which is ridiculous enough, but now we're supposed to believe Trump was that much more terrifying?Mothra said:So they weren't able to produce the two NK soldiers for questioning to the reporters at the Quincy Institute? Wow. Must be a total sham then.Sam Lowry said:Indeed. The Ukrainian narrative has only gotten more convoluted and self-contradictory over time.Mothra said:That is weird, since there have been a number of news reports - including reports from the UN - since Trump took office evidencing their continued involvement.Sam Lowry said:Truer than you know. They were suddenly "withdrawn" and disappeared en masse a couple of months ago when Trump returned to office and the US got tired of maintaining the charade.Mothra said:I think they probably just apparate. There one minute, and gone the next.Sam Lowry said:Especially if they aren't there.Assassin said:
Wagner Soldiers are Kids Compared to North Koreans
DPRK soldiers rarely surrender.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/north-korea-troops-in-russia/
I am sure the NK troops withdrawing from the front lines had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact Trump returned to office and that NK thought it best not to provoke him, and everything to do with the US, South Korea, Great Britain, NATO, the UN, and Ukraine just completely making **** up. All just one big conspiracy. Sure, NK has provided plenty of arms and weapons, but a few thousand expendable soldiers is beyond the pale, and just impossible to believe.
It's not that complicated. These were Buryat soldiers in the Russian army. By mistake or by design, the Ukrainians took them for North Koreans, and the myth snowballed from there.
Got it.
Do you also believe it's a lie that Russia has received weapons from NK?
No, I assume NK is sending weapons to Russia, and probably even some troops for observation and training purposes. There's just no reason to put 10K North Korean troops on the front lines when Russia can recruit that many volunteers in a few weeks. Keep in mind that part of the reason for this talking point was to show that Russia was short on troops and needed to pull forces from the Donbas in order to defend Kursk. Even Syrskyi has recently acknowledged that neither of those things was ever true.
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you on Uke. I just think it's funny you swallow hook, line and sinker whatever propaganda the aggressive totalitarian regime puts out.
We should take both with a huge grain of salt. But when Uke has confirmation from the free world, it does tend to lend more credence to their positions.
The idea that totalitarian regimes can invade other sovereign countries because they don't like that countries internal decisions is absurd, and not a position you would ever support if it was America doing it.
1. Russia is not totalitarian (it's authoritarian and more of a kleptocracy)……N. Korea, Communist China, and Nazi germany are/were totalitarian.
"Do what we say" vs "you must think how we want you to think"
2. The idea is not ridiculous…it's just basic old real politic.
Super Powers and regional powers will intervene in their smaller vassal states…sovereignty of no sovereignty…always have and always will
(The USA of course has invaded lots of our neighbors in the Western hemisphere to secure our interests or security needs.)
The only way to stop that is for a greater power to intervene and use force
When the Ottoman Turks decided to invade Greece proper to put down a national liberation movement the British & French intervened to help the Greeks.
No one cried about fictional norms.
London and Paris decided to man up and step in and stop the slaughter with superior military force.
The USA bombed the Serbs to make them give up Kosovo.
Etc.
If you want the US or EU to intervene to save Ukraine from the Russians you should come out and say it.
2) You've also misunderstood my second point. I am not saying that countries can't do such things in the sense that countries cannot physically invade other countries, or that such invasions have not happened throughout the course of history. I am saying that in today's world countries shouldn't do such things. That was a lesson we should've learned in Vietnam and certainly in Iraq.
What Russia is doing is wrong, and it's the reason they are considered a pariah in most of the free world (present company excluded of course).
I've stated my position on Ukraine many times, including a number of times on this thread. I believe we should be looking for a way to end the war, instead of perpetuating it. While I do not oppose some form of support militarily (i.e. providing some arms and weapons), that support should be made with an off ramp in mind. So, to be clear, I have come out and said it. You must not have been paying attention.
Perhaps it is you who should come out and say that you have no issue with Russia invading and annexing large swaths of a sovereign country. While I find that morally reprehensible, at least be honest about it.
1. There is no quibble
Authoritarian and totalitarian have definitions and are not the same. Russia is a classically authoritarian system.
[Authoritarian: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom].
[Totalitarian: Totalitarianism is a political system and a form of government that prohibits opposition from political parties, disregards and outlaws the political claims of individual and group opposition to the state, and completely controls the public sphere and the private sphere of society. Often in service to an extreme and all encompassing ideology….the totalitarian government uses ideology to control most aspects of human life ]
2. Well there should not be cancer, or famines, or war at all.
But we live in the real world and not a utopian society.
Great powers like the USA and Russia will invade neighbors if they feel it's in their vital security interests to do so.
You have to decide if it's worth countering them with military force and war.
In the case of Ukraine I have no problem saying the risk that comes with trying to tear it out of the Russian orbit is high and of little upside to the USA…it's far from our traditional sphere of influence and of little geo strategic interests to us….its basically another Afghanistan/Vietnam/iraq…a outlying backwater that ends up costing us money and resources
Poland and Russia are destined to struggle over Ukraine (as they have in the past centuries)
It's a passing issue for us…not something we will be spending decades or centuries worrying about
2) I suspect we mostly agree with respect to whether we should be supporting Ukraine militarily and financially. But yet again, this subject is completely irrelevant to the point I was making. We can make a judgment call on whether Russia's actions were right or just - as I was doing - without concluding we should be supporting Ukraine militarily and financially. You seem to be confusing these two, separate issues.
Keep your eye on the ball.
1. It it's a minor issue then just admit it's not a totalitarian system in Russia. It's authoritarian
No reason to try and up the ante as it were when describing the State.
2. Ok, so your point is big nations should not invade smaller nations
Yet we see how that idea worked out so far in history.
It that will not change
Indeed the reason we have NATO is because we all know unless small nations are in a big security (military) alliance they will get run over
Mothra said:You're catching on.FLBear5630 said:Sam Lowry said:
As I've said, South Korean intelligence is notoriously shoddy and unreliable. The US ignored these claims until they became a convenient excuse to launch missiles into Russia. NYT later revealed the Biden administration had made that decision at least six months earlier. Subsequently less and less was said about it as the evidence failed to materialize.
The bottom line is that it doesn't really matter. Even if you believe Ukraine captured a couple of Chinese nationals, it doesn't mean China is involved in the war.
Let's face it Sam, you and Red are pro-Russia. As much as I don't trust Trump, you are pro-Russia. They can do no wrong in this war. I don't Trust Trump based on what he did in NJ and NY, he is about him. Why are you so pro-Putin on this? Family ties? Know people? It would give context.
He's been on the side of our enemies for, oh, about 20 years now.
UKRAINE: Recruiting children under 15 into armed forces or groups is considered a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. pic.twitter.com/2c9owIBkTY
— @amuse (@amuse) April 17, 2025
A good rule of thumb: If amuse posts it, it is BS.historian said:
As a clear an indication that Ukraine has lost the war as any:UKRAINE: Recruiting children under 15 into armed forces or groups is considered a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. pic.twitter.com/2c9owIBkTY
— @amuse (@amuse) April 17, 2025
It was you who took the immoral side during the pandemic.Mothra said:
I pointed out the error in your accusation, and the dichotomy in your arguments. You are a poster who, over the years, has repeatedly and consistently argued against US military interventionism. In fact, I can't think of a single intervention or war in which you've advocated invasion and toppling of the foreign govt. Can you name one?
The ironic thing is, you and I are probably today much more closely aligned in that regard than in years past, as my position has evolved toward yours (though there are probably a few instances in which we disagree, namely WWII). That's what makes your position on Russia so ironic.
Call me crazy, but I suspect that even if Mexico was making internal democratic decisions to more closely align with Russia in terms of trade and potential security, you wouldn't be advocating we invade and topple the Mexican govt.
Couldn't disagree more with your assessment that your arguments regarding who started the war have aged well. If world opinion is any indication, they remain as ridiculous as they day you first advocated for them.
As I've pointed out repeatedly, history has proven you to be on the wrong and immoral side of most issues., Your posting through three years of a Covid pandemic prove that.
You have not even identified the issue correctly, much less taken the "constitutional" side of it. The vaccine decision was a matter of statutory construction. None of the justices questioned whether the mandate would be constitutional if Congress had duly legislated it.Mothra said:
I took both the moral side and the constitutional side. Other countries experiences proved that all businesses did not need to be closed for weeks (as you suggested), vaccines did not need to be mandated (ruled unconstitutional) and healthy children simply did not need the jab. You let cowardice compromise your ethics and our freedoms.
And per usual, you claim regarding US responsibility for Russia's invasion is tenuous at best. We can agree that the US should not have taken the side of anti-Yanukovych demonstrators in 2013, and regarding who Ukrainians should choose to run the country, but the idea that such conduct justified an invasion of the country and incorporation of large swaths of territory is absurd. Even more absurd was the justification for 2022 invasion based on Biden's irresponsible rhetoric.
But no surprise you take away any Russian agency, and pretend we left it with no choice but to invade. Disgusting but par for the course. It appears war and death is ok with you as long as it's not the US waging it.
look closely at those "weapons" in the photo. #reallybadpropagandasombear said:A good rule of thumb: If amuse posts it, it is BS.historian said:
As a clear an indication that Ukraine has lost the war as any:UKRAINE: Recruiting children under 15 into armed forces or groups is considered a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. pic.twitter.com/2c9owIBkTY
— @amuse (@amuse) April 17, 2025
If you track the war at all, you know that we and the Euros have actually criticized Zelensky for NOT reducing the age below 25.
