you are a strange little fella with not a lot of perspective . Screw letting Trumps know. He doesn't deserve to know the way he has handled , treated Ukraine and Zelenski. Eff Trump. He would have personally taken credit for the attack. Disgusting how we have handled this fiasco. Putin has made Trumps look foolish and weak.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:Doing my best to set aside my rooting interest for Ukraine, I completely disagree with Flynn here.The_barBEARian said:ATTENTION!
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) June 1, 2025
So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing @realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning… pic.twitter.com/L976NhwFy6
One, Ukraine had to keep this tight. I would trust Trump, but I would not trust some in his administratiion.
Two, and more importantly from a U.S. perspective, had Ukraine told us, the story would have been this was a U.S. attack.
I'm pretty confident saying the administration would not have wanted to know.
They also attacked some civilian infrastructure - bridges and railways - and killed a couple dozen Russian civilians.
When you combine the fact that Trump wasnt notified with the fact that they chose to execute this attack on the eve of scheduled peace talks, it is so brazenly offensive I imagine Zelensky just burned any remnant of grace he had left with this admin who is doing everything it can to end the conflict.
Why Are We in Ukraine?
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Last: 5 days ago by Redbrickbear
J.R. said:you are a strange little fella with not a lot of perspective . Screw letting Trumps know. He doesn't deserve to know the way he has handled , treated Ukraine and Zelenski. Eff Trump. He would have personally taken credit for the attack. Disgusting how we have handled this fiasco. Putin has made Trumps look foolish and weak.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:Doing my best to set aside my rooting interest for Ukraine, I completely disagree with Flynn here.The_barBEARian said:ATTENTION!
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) June 1, 2025
So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing @realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning… pic.twitter.com/L976NhwFy6
One, Ukraine had to keep this tight. I would trust Trump, but I would not trust some in his administratiion.
Two, and more importantly from a U.S. perspective, had Ukraine told us, the story would have been this was a U.S. attack.
I'm pretty confident saying the administration would not have wanted to know.
They also attacked some civilian infrastructure - bridges and railways - and killed a couple dozen Russian civilians.
When you combine the fact that Trump wasnt notified with the fact that they chose to execute this attack on the eve of scheduled peace talks, it is so brazenly offensive I imagine Zelensky just burned any remnant of grace he had left with this admin who is doing everything it can to end the conflict.
I might agree with this post if Ukraine hadn't received $300 billion from the US tax payer, against the wishes of many of us, to fight its war.
What kind of gypsies take $300 billion from someone and then tell them to f*** off as soon as the money is spent? And you clowns want us to give them more money and material aid?
J.R. said:you are a strange little fella with not a lot of perspective . Screw letting Trumps know. He doesn't deserve to know the way he has handled , treated Ukraine and Zelenski. Eff Trump. He would have personally taken credit for the attack. Disgusting how we have handled this fiasco. Putin has made Trumps look foolish and weak.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:Doing my best to set aside my rooting interest for Ukraine, I completely disagree with Flynn here.The_barBEARian said:ATTENTION!
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) June 1, 2025
So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing @realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning… pic.twitter.com/L976NhwFy6
One, Ukraine had to keep this tight. I would trust Trump, but I would not trust some in his administratiion.
Two, and more importantly from a U.S. perspective, had Ukraine told us, the story would have been this was a U.S. attack.
I'm pretty confident saying the administration would not have wanted to know.
They also attacked some civilian infrastructure - bridges and railways - and killed a couple dozen Russian civilians.
When you combine the fact that Trump wasnt notified with the fact that they chose to execute this attack on the eve of scheduled peace talks, it is so brazenly offensive I imagine Zelensky just burned any remnant of grace he had left with this admin who is doing everything it can to end the conflict.
Unless this was the "really bad thing" Trump said would have happened if it had not been for him.
It could be that when Putin fired the last round of rockets at civilian targets Trump said for the EU and Ukraine to do as you wish. If that's the case, they wouldn't need to or feel obligated to notify Trump. It allows him to keep plausible deniability which allows him to still be the peacemaker.
It's the saber-rattling from some of the EU nations that I really don't like.
Putin is not going to back down so, if there are any in Russia that have not fallen out of windows or down stairs that can oppose Putin, now is their time.
I think we're making a mistake in this dialogue conflating academia with science. Academia is made up of the the individuals in the education and research community. Individuals are often subject to political influence and error. Some things require more data, research, and understanding before reliable predictions can be made. Climate change is a fact borne out by geologic history. Understanding all of the variables, and the significance of each variable that can affect the physics of climate is not fully understood, nor the is the impact of human activity on any of those variables. Regardless of human activity, climate will change.historian said:TexasScientist said:I'm not aware of any objective scholarship that vests a god with the ability to talk, or any objective evidence that any god has ever spoken to anyone. Most people that hear things including god have various degrees of psychological disorders. Academia is the place where ideas, and hypothesis can be questioned, tested, and either accepted or rejected depending upon reproducible results. In academia everything is open to question. There are always people with fringe ideas and crazy nonsensical beliefs. Their "kookiness" is no more "kooky" than adopting the mythological beliefs of ancient primitive people.historian said:TexasScientist said:Only if you redefine legitimate to exclude critical credentialed researchers and scholars. Ask the Baylor Religion Department. They'll help you out.historian said:
You keep making statements of opinion as if they were fact. That's hardly "scientific" or scholarly! While some "scholars" might claim the Gospel of John was written anonymously, most legitimate Bible scholars don't. They make all kinds of ridiculous claims about Jesus and His ministry, about His disciple, about Paul, and much else. These false narratives are often repeated by atheists, charlatans, people with an axe to grind, Christ-haters, & others but they always collapse under the facts, especially as presented in scripture.
For at least 150+ years (probably much more), various "experts" have been trying to cast doubts about various aspects of scripture: the accounts of the creation, the flood, other historic events, the authorship of various books, the biographies of persons in the Bible, and almost everything else. Most of their claims have been soundly refuted by genuine scholarship that takes the text seriously. Over the years, including recently, there have been several dramatic archaeological finds and other scholarship that confirm the biblical accounts of events 3,000 or 4,000 years ago.
To be honest, most of the efforts to contradict the Bible & its history are a rabbit hole, a silly waste of time for anyone who takes it seriously.
The evidence of reality, science and history tell us the biblical accounts of creation, both accounts, and the flood story was borrowed and embellished from ancient Canaanite and older cultures.
The rabbit hole is believing in impossible, and far-fetched myths.
If that's what those "credentialed scholars" think then their credentials aren't worth much. A so-called Bible scholar who calls God a liar is a fool and probably does not know as much as he or she thinks. Academia has declined much over the past 50-60 years with crazy ideas, unproven theories, and blatant lies masquerading as scholarship l.
Elevating scientists, scholars, and anyone else who thinks education alone makes one smart is the true rabbit hole, someone following far fetched myths. It's amazing the crazy nonsense the self proclaimed intelligentsia believe. The climate cult, trans insanity, gender studies, basically all the kookiness we've seen from the Ivies lately, all the various forms of Marxism (including cultural), "Queers for Palestine", and so on.
They repeatedly prove Orwell correct:
"Some ideas are so absurd only an intellectual will believe them."
Objective critical thinking, objective analysis, and academia is what has taken our species out of the dark ages to the present technological standard of living we enjoy today. Religion is mired in ignorance.
Academia is also where lots of stupid ideas, bogus theories, junk science, & outright lies gain lots of traction. For decades the climate cultists made lots of apocalyptic predictions about famines, tiring oceans, mass devastation, etc. They all proved false. Academics also give us all kinds of trans insanity, bigotry, antisemitism, arrogance, etc.
Academics definitely don't have a monopoly on knowledge or discoveries. They often lack wisdom which is far more important. What they seem to have in abundance is arrogance which when added to cultural Marxism is generally laughable in its idiocy.
You keep talking using "primitive" when you should be using the word "ancient". Is that deliberate? It appears arrogant and condescending. There is nothing objective of respectful about such an attitude. One could even say it sounds "kooky", like so much else that academia produces these days.
Ancient is ok, but it doesn't fully capture the definition of primitive.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
What is God's word?historian said:TexasScientist said:Sounds good to an apologist, but there is no basis to support such an over the top statement.historian said:TexasScientist said:You do realize that belief in god is a man made concept.historian said:
"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good."
Psalm 14:1
Actually it's a concept from God. Belief in God is also basic common sense and self evident fact.
"For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:19-20
You realize you're quoting someone whose beliefs are the product of a primitive culture that believed in myths and the supernatural to try and understand their plight. The evidence of reality belies those claims and reveals them as primitive beliefs of primitive people who were trying to make sense of their circumstance in the world.
Actually the opposite. I'm quoting the ultimate authority on such issues: God's word. It's a statement of fact and reality.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
💥💥 Ukraine planned this operation months in advance.
— Jason Jay Smart (@officejjsmart) June 2, 2025
Russia is hunting 🇺🇦 Artem Timofeev, the man behind drone strikes on its airbases. He set up a cargo business in Oct 2024, bought trucks in Dec—those same trucks launched the drones.
Long game, well played. pic.twitter.com/8pHRIWG75l
Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
How is this not a major win for Ukraine. Russia lost 40+/- strategic bombers. They had emergency meetings of their commanders. It seems to me they are looking at this differently than you are.
Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The Russian delegation behaved a little more calmly, although still brazenly. Perhaps a few more "events" need to be organized and the Russians will behave like people— Zelensky
— Cloooud |🇺🇦 (@GloOouD) June 2, 2025
😈😈😈 pic.twitter.com/mwmNXvqBwA
how'd they eff off?The_barBEARian said:J.R. said:you are a strange little fella with not a lot of perspective . Screw letting Trumps know. He doesn't deserve to know the way he has handled , treated Ukraine and Zelenski. Eff Trump. He would have personally taken credit for the attack. Disgusting how we have handled this fiasco. Putin has made Trumps look foolish and weak.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:Doing my best to set aside my rooting interest for Ukraine, I completely disagree with Flynn here.The_barBEARian said:ATTENTION!
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) June 1, 2025
So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing @realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning… pic.twitter.com/L976NhwFy6
One, Ukraine had to keep this tight. I would trust Trump, but I would not trust some in his administratiion.
Two, and more importantly from a U.S. perspective, had Ukraine told us, the story would have been this was a U.S. attack.
I'm pretty confident saying the administration would not have wanted to know.
They also attacked some civilian infrastructure - bridges and railways - and killed a couple dozen Russian civilians.
When you combine the fact that Trump wasnt notified with the fact that they chose to execute this attack on the eve of scheduled peace talks, it is so brazenly offensive I imagine Zelensky just burned any remnant of grace he had left with this admin who is doing everything it can to end the conflict.
I might agree with this post if Ukraine hadn't received $300 billion from the US tax payer, against the wishes of many of us, to fight its war.
What kind of gypsies take $300 billion from someone and then tell them to f*** off as soon as the money is spent? And you clowns want us to give them more money and material aid?
Do you think Trump, the President of the United States and leader of the country who has given the most aid and support to Ukraine, was informed and approved the attack before Zelensky ordered it?
I don't see why as the way he has treated them. Eff Trump! Biden has given much more aid than the Trumps. Trump just likes to hold things/$ over their heads like a punk az. They are the ones who were invaded. They are defending themselves. Great for Ukraine . Maybe the grifter in chief can ask them if they will take Trump Fart Coins!The_barBEARian said:
Do you think Trump, the President of the United States and leader of the country who has given the most aid and support to Ukraine, was informed and approved the attack before Zelensky ordered it?
The_barBEARian said:
Do you think Trump, the President of the United States and leader of the country who has given the most aid and support to Ukraine, was informed and approved the attack before Zelensky ordered it?
Would you have told Trump? I wouldn't have. He can't be trusted with secrets.
I'll be very surprised if they took out 40 strategic bombers with this type of attack.LIB,MR BEARS said:Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
How is this not a major win for Ukraine. Russia lost 40+/- strategic bombers. They had emergency meetings of their commanders. It seems to me they are looking at this differently than you are.
Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?sombear said:Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.
Sam Lowry said:Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?sombear said:Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.
ROFL!!!! No.
The_barBEARian said:J.R. said:you are a strange little fella with not a lot of perspective . Screw letting Trumps know. He doesn't deserve to know the way he has handled , treated Ukraine and Zelenski. Eff Trump. He would have personally taken credit for the attack. Disgusting how we have handled this fiasco. Putin has made Trumps look foolish and weak.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:Doing my best to set aside my rooting interest for Ukraine, I completely disagree with Flynn here.The_barBEARian said:ATTENTION!
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) June 1, 2025
So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing @realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning… pic.twitter.com/L976NhwFy6
One, Ukraine had to keep this tight. I would trust Trump, but I would not trust some in his administratiion.
Two, and more importantly from a U.S. perspective, had Ukraine told us, the story would have been this was a U.S. attack.
I'm pretty confident saying the administration would not have wanted to know.
They also attacked some civilian infrastructure - bridges and railways - and killed a couple dozen Russian civilians.
When you combine the fact that Trump wasnt notified with the fact that they chose to execute this attack on the eve of scheduled peace talks, it is so brazenly offensive I imagine Zelensky just burned any remnant of grace he had left with this admin who is doing everything it can to end the conflict.
I might agree with this post if Ukraine hadn't received $300 billion from the US tax payer, against the wishes of many of us, to fight its war.
What kind of gypsies take $300 billion from someone and then tell them to f*** off as soon as the money is spent? And you clowns want us to give them more money and material aid?
What if they haven't received $300B? Is it ok not to let Trump know?
Sam Lowry said:Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?sombear said:Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.
A few things…
Haven't seen any reports that Ukraine maintains regime change in Moscow is necessary for peace. I do know at one point they demanded same when Russia continued to demand same from Ukraine (which BTW Russia apparently still does). It was more of a tit for tat than anything. However, that hasn't been a term they insisted on for many months. When you cite knowingly inaccurate information, and fail to point out that the Russian counterpart also insisted on regime change, you're being disingenuous and merely spouting Russian propaganda. That's of course par for the course with you.
My understanding is that while Ukraine insist on Russian withdrawal, I've read reports that Ukraine is willing to cede occupied territories. The hitch in the get along is they can't get a security agreement from Russia.
It takes two to tango, and as you've admitted, Russia has no interest in a peace deal. So once again, it's a bit disingenuous for you to point the finger at Ukraine when the country you support engages in the equivalent or worse behavior, and fails to negotiate in good faith.
But of course, it's all Ukraine's fault.
Mitch Blood Green said:The_barBEARian said:J.R. said:you are a strange little fella with not a lot of perspective . Screw letting Trumps know. He doesn't deserve to know the way he has handled , treated Ukraine and Zelenski. Eff Trump. He would have personally taken credit for the attack. Disgusting how we have handled this fiasco. Putin has made Trumps look foolish and weak.The_barBEARian said:sombear said:Doing my best to set aside my rooting interest for Ukraine, I completely disagree with Flynn here.The_barBEARian said:ATTENTION!
— General Mike Flynn (@GenFlynn) June 1, 2025
So, it appears Zelenskyy gave the go ahead to attack parked Russian nuclear capable bombers without informing @realDonaldTrump (if true that our President was not consulted nor informed, this isn’t simply a breach of protocol. It’s a geopolitical insult and a warning… pic.twitter.com/L976NhwFy6
One, Ukraine had to keep this tight. I would trust Trump, but I would not trust some in his administratiion.
Two, and more importantly from a U.S. perspective, had Ukraine told us, the story would have been this was a U.S. attack.
I'm pretty confident saying the administration would not have wanted to know.
They also attacked some civilian infrastructure - bridges and railways - and killed a couple dozen Russian civilians.
When you combine the fact that Trump wasnt notified with the fact that they chose to execute this attack on the eve of scheduled peace talks, it is so brazenly offensive I imagine Zelensky just burned any remnant of grace he had left with this admin who is doing everything it can to end the conflict.
I might agree with this post if Ukraine hadn't received $300 billion from the US tax payer, against the wishes of many of us, to fight its war.
What kind of gypsies take $300 billion from someone and then tell them to f*** off as soon as the money is spent? And you clowns want us to give them more money and material aid?
What if they haven't received $300B? Is it ok not to let Trump know?
That depends on whether or not they are planning on begging the US for more money.
If I asked you for a loan for X and spent all the money you loaned me on Y, then came back to you with an entitled attitude demanding you give me another loan how would you react?
Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.Sam Lowry said:Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?sombear said:Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.
I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.
I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.
There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .
LOL dream on, buddy.The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:yep. and Mark Rutte, the new NATO Sec. Gen. is a leftist nutter, too. No question that the Nato bureaucracy would react reflexively and fairly uniformly to a change agent like Trump.Doc Holliday said:I know two FSOs that work at NATO and they're both radical leftists. I would hope they're not representative of the rest of the Americans working there. I toured NATO a couple of years ago and they had CNN on every TV in the cafeteria. They're very vocally anti Trump.whiterock said:Red has his eye on the ball here. NATO is a tremendous stabilizing force in EUrope, greatly lessening geopolitical tensions within the alliance by freezing borders where they are and largely removing the dynamic of "spheres of influence." Bulgaria, Greece, and Romania are no longer just shatterzone states between greater powers - Turkey, Italy, and Germany. They are all allied together rather than pieces of constantly shifting blocks of alliances whose dynamics threaten larger powers.Redbrickbear said:The_barBEARian said:Redbrickbear said:Realitybites said:
We need to get out of NATO. Culturally, demographically, and politically those nations are nothing like the ones we agreed to give Truman doctrine protections to almost 80 years ago.
I disagree
Being in NATO allows the Western World to have a powerful alliance network
And that also prevents outsiders from coming into Europe and causing trouble. (Russia)
And it prevents the massive rearming of the European powers and their old bitter rivalries (UK vs France, France vs Germany, Germany vs Poland, Turkey vs all the non-Muslim Balkan states, etc.)
The NATO allies are all supposed to spend 2% of GDP on defense (most don't hit that number)...but it keeps everyone spending around the same proportionally.
If NATO goes away then the UK, France, Germany, Turkey, Italy, Poland all start to rearm at a fast pace to become the big military dog in Europe. And we get dangerously close to a 1914 world again of rival alliance networks and large military spending campaigns.
That world is not good for America or the average European.
The USA and the EU States need to be in a general positive military alliance....especially as we face the big challenges of the future.
Rivalry and war in Europe eventually sucks us in....and its not good for anyone but the non-Western rivals who gain from the West infighting
At this point NATO is a major hinderance to native Europeans purging their countries of the 3rd world invaders and rainbow globalists who are on the cusp of making them extinct. Britain, France, Sweden, and Belgium are already lost forever... and the rest of Europe isnt far behind.
Nationalism needs to thrive.
NATO needs to die.
Realitybites is right.
That is the EU bureaucracy
Not NATO
NATO truly does not have anything to do with setting European migration policies (leftwing or rightwing)
And if NATO went away tomorrow there is not a totally impossible scenario where Muslim Turkey under Erdogan starts actually invading other European-Balkans countries. (they have dangerous neo-Ottoman tendencies)
But none of that changes the impact of the alliance on itself. It greatly relieves millennia-old rivalries. the first Nato SG, Lord Ismay, put it succinctly:
"...(the purpose of Nato is)"to keep the Soviet Union out, the Americans in, and the Germans down."
That is the subtext to German unwillingness to meet their Nato spending obligations, and also why the rest of Nato has never made an issue of it.
My generation will put NATO down... like many other corrupt institutions you support.
You and the other boomers can wail about it from the afterlife.
NATO should have been killed off 30 years ago for attacking the Serbian Nationalists, which had they won would have kept Europe from being overrun by the 3rd world Asians and Africans.
To understand, here's what's beneath the pylons. Let's hope cracks appear soon. pic.twitter.com/hN15InANBS
— Threepwood (@snieders) June 3, 2025
I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
Ukraine disabling russia's nuclear planes is a win for everyone
Mothra said:So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!
The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.
I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.
So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!
The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.
I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.
Mothra said:So, despite railing against out of control spending, you're ok with a Trump/Republican bill that substantially increases that spending and adds to our problems as long as it extends your tax cuts?The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!
The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.
I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.
Yes. I support anything reasonable that extends the tax cuts because I have to be practical and deal with the current ****ed up state of our union.
This country is cooked because of the clowns in this thread who supported wasting money on corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine and Israel and spent the last decade calling me a NAZI and Klansmen for wanting border security and law and order.
At least with access to more of my own assets and capital I can more effectively plan my exit strategy when the inevitable collapse occurs.
I'm not sure you "produce" a whole lot, nor pay any significant taxes. Tax cuts in this bill are ridiculous without corresponding spending reductions. The R's have NO Balls to stand up to Fatman. I would forgo a tax cut to bring down the debt if everyone else did too. Trust me, I stand to do very well on these tax cuts, but I really don't need them. Everyone has to sacrifice.The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!
The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.
I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.
J.R. said:I'm not sure you "produce" a whole lot, nor pay any significant taxes. Tax cuts in this bill are ridiculous without corresponding spending reductions. The R's have NO Balls to stand up to Fatman. I would forgo a tax cut to bring down the debt if everyone else did too. Trust me, I stand to do very well on these tax cuts, but I really don't need them. Everyone has to sacrifice.The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!
The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.
I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.
Yeah. You're not sure. So why dont you shut your ****ing mouth for once in your *********life!
Putin's helicopter was reportedly targeted by drones on May 20 in the Kursk region.sombear said:Both sides have presented unreasonable offers. That's how bargaining works. I'm sure both have considerable room to move. No idea how much. Russia is still demanding all the nutty things it demanded prior to the invasion. Ukraine still grasping to Crimea and NATO, but I think Zelensky knows both are gone.Sam Lowry said:Morale and the rest is important if you have a strategy for winning. Otherwise you're just postponing the inevitable. The fundamentals have never been there for Ukraine. It might be different if they were actually willing to negotiate, but look at what they consider "decent terms." Full Russian withdrawal, reparations, and regime change in Moscow? It's everything they've failed to win on the battlefield, and then some. Why would Putin agree?sombear said:Believe it or not, if you look at it narrowly, I agree with you.Sam Lowry said:Tough is when it sinks in that this took a year and a half to plan and it didn't change a thing on the battlefield. That it qualifies as a major Ukrainian accomplishment tells you everything you need to know.sombear said:The_barBEARian said:Let’s drop the charade, this isn’t a Ukraine-Russia conflict.
— Richard (@ricwe123) June 1, 2025
It’s a full-blown NATO war on Russia, with Ukraine as the disposable pawn.
Those strikes on Russian bombers, rail lines, airfields, and bridges weren’t just Ukraine acting alone, they were coordinated, funded and… pic.twitter.com/JCj4bEHm5B
Really tough day for you and this Richard fellow.
But I don't look at it that way.
Ukraine is not going to win this war directly. Its best hope is to end the war on decent terms.
To do that, battlefield "success" is only a part of it. Ukraine must also:
- maintain military morale.
- keep Ukrainians engaged and positive.
- plant seeds of doubt in Russians and Russian leaders.
- show leaders and people of supporting countries that they competing.
This truly historic op helps in all of these areas. And, again, if I were a betting man, I'd bet a good chunk of money that more is coming.
The only explanation is that Zelensky is back to his perennial strategy of trying to drag us deeper into the war, possibly with the help of some in the United States. This is the second major provocation in recent days (following the drone attack on Putin's helicopter) that Trump may or may not have been aware of. Either possibility is troubling.
I've seen no reports of Ukraine demanding Russian regime change.
I think you're overthinking it. Zelensky's goal is a continued stalemate with the occasional small victory, hoping that leads to a deal that maintains Ukraine's sovereignty and most of the east.
There was no attack on Putin's helicopter. Of course, I would not mind if there was . . . .
Ukraine has from the beginning demanded that Putin face a war crimes tribunal, which implies regime change.
The strategic question isn't whether you find Russia's position reasonable. It's whether you can give them an incentive to abandon it. This attack won't accomplish that. Note also that Ukraine has revised its estimate of Russia's losses from 40 planes to 12. After studying satellite images, Western analysts quoted by Reuters said only that "several" appeared to have been damaged or destroyed.
J.R. said:I'm not sure you "produce" a whole lot, nor pay any significant taxes. Tax cuts in this bill are ridiculous without corresponding spending reductions. The R's have NO Balls to stand up to Fatman. I would forgo a tax cut to bring down the debt if everyone else did too. Trust me, I stand to do very well on these tax cuts, but I really don't need them. Everyone has to sacrifice.The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:So, you are against all of the absurd spending, but want a bill to be passed that substantially increases that spending and deficits???The_barBEARian said:Mothra said:I take it you are also against the Big Beautiful Bill, then?The_barBEARian said:
The vast majority of the American tax payers are against funding this proxy war.
The MIC seems to be under the assumption tax payers are their slave caste who solely exist to serve them.
If they can't get our tax cuts extended bcs we are so badly in debt, but a year from now they send hundreds of billions more to Ukraine there should be blood in the streets.
I understand where the true conservatives like Thomas Massie and Ron Johnson are coming from.
My democrat fatigue is at all time highs. My rhino/neo-con republican fatigue is also at all time highs.
On the democrat side:
Adult men and women without children should not be entitled to Medicaid.
There should be massive cuts to corrupt welfare state programs like food stamps and section 8 housing.
There should be Medicare and Social Security reforms.
On the rhino/neo-con side:
Our defense budget should also be cut in half... not increased!
CIA fronts like USAID should be completely eliminated.
Not a single penny more to Ukraine or Israel to fight proxy wars that dont benefit anyone who doesnt work for a defense contractor.
I am beyond livid that the Big Beautiful Bill might not get passed and the tax cuts will not be extended because of all the absolute filth who supported sending hundreds of billions of wasted tax pay money to corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine. I hope Zelensky gets assassinated in one of the many yachts or mansions he purchased with my tax dollars.
I want the tax cut extensions from the bill you fool!
The people who produce should be rewarded instead of constantly being penalized and stolen from.
I dont support any of the other spending. There should be a constitutional amendment that congress isnt allowed to spend a single dime without a balanced budget in place.
It would have been nice if you Boomers had sacrificed in 2008 and lost half your savings instead of kicking the can down the road, ballooning our debt to unprecedented, historic proportions, and making the next generation pay for your mistakes.
I'm in my peak earning years so every dollar you *******s steal from me is one less dollar I can invest and put towards retirement.