AG Ken Paxton on glide path to impeachment

104,603 Views | 971 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by boognish_bear
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
outstanding statement by Rep. Isaacs. She's mostly making points already expressed in the thread, but her 2nd bullet point is revealing. Basically, the Speaker was offended that Paxton asked the taxpayers to fund the settlement of a wrongful conduct lawsuit, so he threw the whole laundry list of allegations into the mix for dramatic purposes.



Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points

whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?
OsoCoreyell
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

outstanding statement by Rep. Isaacs. She's mostly making points already expressed in the thread, but her 2nd bullet point is revealing. Basically, the Speaker was offended that Paxton asked the taxpayers to fund the settlement of a wrongful conduct lawsuit, so he threw the whole laundry list of allegations into the mix for dramatic purposes.




No, that's not what it means. They aren't saying that the request for taxpayer funds was the basis for impeachment - they are saying that triggered a deeper investigation, which uncovered the bases for impeachment.

Look, I get it. You identify so closely with this guy because he's sticking it to the D's. I support those efforts, I really do. But Ken is not a policy - He's a guy. The policies and efforts can be good and the guy pursuing them can still have done bad things. That's all I'm saying.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Proud 1992 Alum said:

I have never voted for a Democrat. About as conservative as they come. I am also a huge Baylor fan and love having Baylor grads in powerful positions. But I want the highest elected officials to be people of character who obey the law. Especially when they are the chief law enforcement officer of the state. It is hard for me to understand how anyone can read in detail about Paxton's actions and think he should remain in office. Sometimes the guys on "your side" are turds. It is wise to flush them.
As long as you don't replace them with democrats or neoliberal "conservatives".
Aliceinbubbleland
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Carrie Isaac just got added to my Christian kook list. Because he has faught successfully with the wokes in D.C. he is ok and should get away with political blackmail, crooked politics and every other thieving thing we can think of he has participated within. And he is an adultry, no less (gasp)! That flew right over Carrie's small brain. I guess she is progressive on that viewpoint lol.

Most of us get that Paxton has accomplished a lot in D.C. with the woke. But he is a dishonest theiving crook and his replacement will do just fine fighting D.C.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Proud 1992 Alum
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

Proud 1992 Alum said:

I have never voted for a Democrat. About as conservative as they come. I am also a huge Baylor fan and love having Baylor grads in powerful positions. But I want the highest elected officials to be people of character who obey the law. Especially when they are the chief law enforcement officer of the state. It is hard for me to understand how anyone can read in detail about Paxton's actions and think he should remain in office. Sometimes the guys on "your side" are turds. It is wise to flush them.
As long as you don't replace them with democrats or neoliberal "conservatives".


Doesn't Abbott name his replacement? I want the GOP to have higher standards than the Dems. Both parties are so focused on "winning" that they excuse unethical behavior of their leaders. No wonder faith and trust in institutions gets worse each year. Not to mention that Paxton is the chief law enforcement officer in the state. It is dangerous for the chief prosecutor to be so compromised by his past actions. What defendants have weaponized information on his shady activities to influence their case?
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This looks like a good appointment.

Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday appointed Fort Worth lawyer and former Secretary of State John Scott as interim Texas attorney general, temporarily replacing Ken Paxton, who was suspended as attorney general pending the outcome of an impeachment trial in the state Senate.
Scott previously served as deputy attorney general for civil litigation when Abbott led that office. He has more than 34 years of legal experience and has argued more than 100 cases in state and federal courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court. After leaving the attorney general's office, he was appointed chief operating officer of the state Health and Human Services Commission, overseeing 56,000 employees and a budget of $50 billion.
"John Scott has the background and experience needed to step in as a short-term interim Attorney General during the time the Attorney General has been suspended from duty," Abbott said in a statement. "He served under me in the Texas Attorney General's Office and knows how the Office of the Attorney General operates."


whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
it's in the twitter link above. SCOTX said 665.081 means exactly what it says - one cannot be impeached for acts committed in a prior term.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OsoCoreyell said:

whiterock said:

outstanding statement by Rep. Isaacs. She's mostly making points already expressed in the thread, but her 2nd bullet point is revealing. Basically, the Speaker was offended that Paxton asked the taxpayers to fund the settlement of a wrongful conduct lawsuit, so he threw the whole laundry list of allegations into the mix for dramatic purposes.




No, that's not what it means. They aren't saying that the request for taxpayer funds was the basis for impeachment - they are saying that triggered a deeper investigation, which uncovered the bases for impeachment.

Look, I get it. You identify so closely with this guy because he's sticking it to the D's. I support those efforts, I really do. But Ken is not a policy - He's a guy. The policies and efforts can be good and the guy pursuing them can still have done bad things. That's all I'm saying.
and that's not an unreasonable position to take.

Only problem is, the voters knew about nearly all of those 20 items and elected him anyway, a mere 6 months ago. We didn't HAVE to do this to engage in good governance. Arguably, deferring to the will of the voters IS good governance.

Anyway, we are where we are. Brian Birdwell will be fair with the rules.
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
it's in the twitter link above. SCOTX said 665.081 means exactly what it says - one cannot be impeached for acts committed in a prior term.
I went back four pages. Couldn't find a S Ct of Texas opinion on 665.081

If you have a link to the S Ct case on which Paxton is relying, please post it.
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
it's in the twitter link above. SCOTX said 665.081 means exactly what it says - one cannot be impeached for acts committed in a prior term.
S Ct does not say what you are saying.
https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/37dfc32e8a9ab6db4c41061aabae51d4/GI%20Impeachment%20Memo.pdf

They refer this section as the "forgiveness doctrine". Gov Ferguson was impeached for acts he committed in terms prior to the term in which he was impeached. The section on which you rely means Paxton couldn't be impeached for acts he committed before being elected to AG in 2014. He can be impeached for acts he committed while in the office of AG.
whitetrash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
it's in the twitter link above. SCOTX said 665.081 means exactly what it says - one cannot be impeached for acts committed in a prior term.
S Ct does not say what you are saying.
https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/37dfc32e8a9ab6db4c41061aabae51d4/GI%20Impeachment%20Memo.pdf

They refer this section as the "forgiveness doctrine". Gov Ferguson was impeached for acts he committed in terms prior to the term in which he was impeached. The section on which you rely means Paxton couldn't be impeached for acts he committed before being elected to AG in 2014. He can be impeached for acts he committed while in the office of AG.
Article XV, Section 2 of the Texas Constitution governs impeachment of state elected officials, including the AG. Article XV, Section 7 provides that:

"The Legislature shall provide by law for the trial and removal from office of all officers of this State, the modes for which have not been provided in this Constitution."


Govt. Code 665.081 (and its verbatim precursor, Tex. Rev. Civ. Stat. Art. 5986) states:

"No officer in this State shall be removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office."


The last impeachment to reach the legislature was the removal of O.P. Carillo, district judge in Duval County and henchman of George and Arthur Parr (the "Dukes of Duval" who engineered LBJ's senate election in 1948). In In re Carillo, 542 S.W.2d 105 (1976), Carillo raised Art. 5986 as a defense. The Supreme Court acknowledged that virtually all of the impeachable conduct by Carillo occurred prior to his election, but held that:

(1) the Texas Constitution provides a procedure for removal of a district judge (in Article V), thus rendering Art. 5986 inapplicable to his case; and

(2) even more pertinent to the current case, "We hold that the willful and persistent acts of misconduct committed by Judge Carrillo prior to his last election were such as to cast just as much public discredit upon the judiciary as if they had been committed after the election; and they were not in any manner absolved by his election."


In a similar vein, the Constitution provides a procedure for removal of a state officer (impeachment by House in Art. XV, Sec. 1, trial by Senate in Sec. 2). So the chances of the Texas Supreme Court overruling their holdings in In re Carillo and holding that Govt. Code 665.081 supersedes and thus precludes impeachment are infinitesimal.

Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whitetrash said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
it's in the twitter link above. SCOTX said 665.081 means exactly what it says - one cannot be impeached for acts committed in a prior term.
S Ct does not say what you are saying.
https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/37dfc32e8a9ab6db4c41061aabae51d4/GI%20Impeachment%20Memo.pdf

They refer this section as the "forgiveness doctrine". Gov Ferguson was impeached for acts he committed in terms prior to the term in which he was impeached. The section on which you rely means Paxton couldn't be impeached for acts he committed before being elected to AG in 2014. He can be impeached for acts he committed while in the office of AG.
Article XV, Section 2 of the Texas Constitution governs impeachment of state elected officials, including the AG. Article XV, Section 7 provides that:

"The Legislature shall provide by law for the trial and removal from office of all officers of this State, the modes for which have not been provided in this Constitution."


Govt. Code 665.081 (and its verbatim precursor, Tex. Rev. Civ. Stat. Art. 5986) states:

"No officer in this State shall be removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office."


The last impeachment to reach the legislature was the removal of O.P. Carillo, district judge in Duval County and henchman of George and Arthur Parr (the "Dukes of Duval" who engineered LBJ's senate election in 1948). In In re Carillo, 542 S.W.2d 105 (1976), Carillo raised Art. 5986 as a defense. The Supreme Court acknowledged that virtually all of the impeachable conduct by Carillo occurred prior to his election, but held that:

(1) the Texas Constitution provides a procedure for removal of a district judge (in Article V), thus rendering Art. 5986 inapplicable to his case; and

(2) even more pertinent to the current case, "We hold that the willful and persistent acts of misconduct committed by Judge Carrillo prior to his last election were such as to cast just as much public discredit upon the judiciary as if they had been committed after the election; and they were not in any manner absolved by his election."


In a similar vein, the Constitution provides a procedure for removal of a state officer (impeachment by House in Art. XV, Sec. 1, trial by Senate in Sec. 2). So the chances of the Texas Supreme Court overruling their holdings in In re Carillo and holding that Govt. Code 665.081 supersedes and thus precludes impeachment are infinitesimal.




Much more complete answer. Thanks
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:




I'm surprised
I think of them as defense lawyers, not prosecutors
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Let the race for lawyer posturing begin!
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

Osodecentx said:

whiterock said:

OsoCoreyell said:

I will not argue with the criticisms of the way the speakership is chosen in the Texas House. But I lay the blame squarely on Abbott and Patrick. It should be communicated clearly to any Republican that caucusing with Democrats to get the Speakership will equal total pariah status and getting primaried endlessly. Perry had a chance to stop that junk and didn't.


This lege could have stopped it at any time.

Instead, they hired a bunch of Harris Co. Dems to investigate Paxton without any defense witnesses. Long, but we'll worth the time:




And you said you had no talking points


I don't. I'm just reading the ongoing debate and noting the facts that correspond with your narrative. You could do the same and educate yourself. I thought the Tx Supreme Court ruling was particularly relevant. Don't you?


What did S Ct rule? Cite?
it's in the twitter link above. SCOTX said 665.081 means exactly what it says - one cannot be impeached for acts committed in a prior term.
I went back four pages. Couldn't find a S Ct of Texas opinion on 665.081

If you have a link to the S Ct case on which Paxton is relying, please post it.

Page 4, 28th post down, in comments at link

whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Link to case contained in post above:

https://casetext.com/case/reeves-v-state-of-texas-ex-rel-mason

Last few paragraphs: "The Court of Civil Appeals correctly held that the defendant Reeves, plaintiff in error here, could not be removed from office during his second term for offences committed during his first term. In support of this holding we advance the following reasons, in addition to those given by the Court of Civil Appeals which we approve:

Article 6030, R.S., provides for removal from office for certain acts of official misconduct while in office.

Article 6055, R.S., provides that "no officer shall be prosecuted or removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office."

As said by the Court of Civil Appeals, "the phrase `prior to his election to office' would, and is intended to, apply to a re-election as well as election in the first instance, since the re-election of the same officer is in legal effect the same as an original election. As the Constitution does not provide for continuity of terms of office, each `term of office' legally becomes an entity, separate and distinct from all other terms of the same office. This being so, the Legislature doubtless intended in the enactment of the statute to provide that an officer should not be removed for official misconduct except for acts committed after his election to the term of office he is then holding and from which it is attempted to oust him." Thurston v. Clark, 107 Cal. 285, 40 P. 435; Speed v. Common Council of Detroit, 98 Mich. 360, 39 Amer. St. Repts., 555; Smith v. Ling, 68 Cal. 324, 9 P. 171.

In Texas we have frequent elections; for county officers every two years. The main, if not the only, justification for such frequent elections is that thereby the elections are kept in the hands of and close to the people, and ample opportunity is afforded to retire incompetent or corrupt officers. We construe Article 6055 to mean that an officer cannot be removed for acts committed prior to his election to the term of office he is holding. An election to a second term is as much an "election to office" as to a first term. This doubtless is more consistent with the legislative intent, and is to give it a more practical value and application in connection with the purpose of the Act and our system of elections. To construe it differently would be to agree to the argument of defendant in error wherein it says: "Article 6055 Rev. Stat. by providing that no officer shall be removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office, in our opinion carries no more force than if such Article had not been enacted, as he could not be guilty of official misconduct until he was inducted into office by taking the oath of office and executing official bond." But we think the Legislature did not idly enact the Article, and that it should be given "force". To do so we must apply it only to acts committed subsequent to an election to the term the officer is holding, and from which it is sought to oust him.

We think, however, the Court of Civil Appeals erred in holding that the admission in evidence of acts of official misconduct during the plaintiff in error's first term of office should not work a reversal of the judgment against him. The jury, under the direction of the court, as provided in Article 6043, there being more than one distinct cause of removal alleged, did, by separate findings in their verdict, say which cause they found to be sustained by the evidence and which were not sustained, and they found acts of official misconduct in both terms of office. We think, however, that the admission in evidence of other and separate acts charged and found by the jury to have been committed during the first term in office could not help but be prejudicial to plaintiff in error and to have influenced the jury in their findings upon the issues submitted to them of acts committed during the second term, and should not have been admitted for any purpose.

For the reasons stated herein, the judgments of the Court of Civil Appeals and of the District Court are reversed and the cause is remanded.

Reversed and remanded."
whitetrash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Link to case contained in post above:

https://casetext.com/case/reeves-v-state-of-texas-ex-rel-mason

Last few paragraphs: "The Court of Civil Appeals correctly held that the defendant Reeves, plaintiff in error here, could not be removed from office during his second term for offences committed during his first term. In support of this holding we advance the following reasons, in addition to those given by the Court of Civil Appeals which we approve:

Article 6030, R.S., provides for removal from office for certain acts of official misconduct while in office.

Article 6055, R.S., provides that "no officer shall be prosecuted or removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office."

As said by the Court of Civil Appeals, "the phrase `prior to his election to office' would, and is intended to, apply to a re-election as well as election in the first instance, since the re-election of the same officer is in legal effect the same as an original election. As the Constitution does not provide for continuity of terms of office, each `term of office' legally becomes an entity, separate and distinct from all other terms of the same office. This being so, the Legislature doubtless intended in the enactment of the statute to provide that an officer should not be removed for official misconduct except for acts committed after his election to the term of office he is then holding and from which it is attempted to oust him." Thurston v. Clark, 107 Cal. 285, 40 P. 435; Speed v. Common Council of Detroit, 98 Mich. 360, 39 Amer. St. Repts., 555; Smith v. Ling, 68 Cal. 324, 9 P. 171.

In Texas we have frequent elections; for county officers every two years. The main, if not the only, justification for such frequent elections is that thereby the elections are kept in the hands of and close to the people, and ample opportunity is afforded to retire incompetent or corrupt officers. We construe Article 6055 to mean that an officer cannot be removed for acts committed prior to his election to the term of office he is holding. An election to a second term is as much an "election to office" as to a first term. This doubtless is more consistent with the legislative intent, and is to give it a more practical value and application in connection with the purpose of the Act and our system of elections. To construe it differently would be to agree to the argument of defendant in error wherein it says: "Article 6055 Rev. Stat. by providing that no officer shall be removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office, in our opinion carries no more force than if such Article had not been enacted, as he could not be guilty of official misconduct until he was inducted into office by taking the oath of office and executing official bond." But we think the Legislature did not idly enact the Article, and that it should be given "force". To do so we must apply it only to acts committed subsequent to an election to the term the officer is holding, and from which it is sought to oust him.

We think, however, the Court of Civil Appeals erred in holding that the admission in evidence of acts of official misconduct during the plaintiff in error's first term of office should not work a reversal of the judgment against him. The jury, under the direction of the court, as provided in Article 6043, there being more than one distinct cause of removal alleged, did, by separate findings in their verdict, say which cause they found to be sustained by the evidence and which were not sustained, and they found acts of official misconduct in both terms of office. We think, however, that the admission in evidence of other and separate acts charged and found by the jury to have been committed during the first term in office could not help but be prejudicial to plaintiff in error and to have influenced the jury in their findings upon the issues submitted to them of acts committed during the second term, and should not have been admitted for any purpose.

For the reasons stated herein, the judgments of the Court of Civil Appeals and of the District Court are reversed and the cause is remanded.

Reversed and remanded."
A 1924 Supreme Court case regarding removal of a county sheriff. Texas Civil Statutes were revised and renumbered in 1925, so I presume what was Art. 6055 was renumbered as Art. 5986 at that time, then codified into the Govt. Code as Sec. 665.081 in 1993.

However, in the 1955 Supreme Court ruling in In re Carillo cited above, the Court held that 6055/5986/665.081 only applies to offices where there is not a procedure set forth in the Texas Constitution for the removal of the elected official. The Constitution specifies a procedure for the removal of the AG in Art. XV, Sec. 2. It does not specify a procedure for removal of a county sheriff. Further, the Carillo court specifically referred to acts of misconduct committed prior to reelection that were not in any way absolved by a subsequent election as grounds for impeachment.

Again, the distinction is that Reeves applies to offices not otherwise governed by a procedure set forth in the Texas Constitution, while Carillo applies to those offices enumerated in the Constitution. If Paxton was County Attorney, he'd have a leg to stand on. But not as AG.
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whitetrash said:

whiterock said:

Link to case contained in post above:

https://casetext.com/case/reeves-v-state-of-texas-ex-rel-mason

Last few paragraphs: "The Court of Civil Appeals correctly held that the defendant Reeves, plaintiff in error here, could not be removed from office during his second term for offences committed during his first term. In support of this holding we advance the following reasons, in addition to those given by the Court of Civil Appeals which we approve:

Article 6030, R.S., provides for removal from office for certain acts of official misconduct while in office.

Article 6055, R.S., provides that "no officer shall be prosecuted or removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office."

As said by the Court of Civil Appeals, "the phrase `prior to his election to office' would, and is intended to, apply to a re-election as well as election in the first instance, since the re-election of the same officer is in legal effect the same as an original election. As the Constitution does not provide for continuity of terms of office, each `term of office' legally becomes an entity, separate and distinct from all other terms of the same office. This being so, the Legislature doubtless intended in the enactment of the statute to provide that an officer should not be removed for official misconduct except for acts committed after his election to the term of office he is then holding and from which it is attempted to oust him." Thurston v. Clark, 107 Cal. 285, 40 P. 435; Speed v. Common Council of Detroit, 98 Mich. 360, 39 Amer. St. Repts., 555; Smith v. Ling, 68 Cal. 324, 9 P. 171.

In Texas we have frequent elections; for county officers every two years. The main, if not the only, justification for such frequent elections is that thereby the elections are kept in the hands of and close to the people, and ample opportunity is afforded to retire incompetent or corrupt officers. We construe Article 6055 to mean that an officer cannot be removed for acts committed prior to his election to the term of office he is holding. An election to a second term is as much an "election to office" as to a first term. This doubtless is more consistent with the legislative intent, and is to give it a more practical value and application in connection with the purpose of the Act and our system of elections. To construe it differently would be to agree to the argument of defendant in error wherein it says: "Article 6055 Rev. Stat. by providing that no officer shall be removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office, in our opinion carries no more force than if such Article had not been enacted, as he could not be guilty of official misconduct until he was inducted into office by taking the oath of office and executing official bond." But we think the Legislature did not idly enact the Article, and that it should be given "force". To do so we must apply it only to acts committed subsequent to an election to the term the officer is holding, and from which it is sought to oust him.

We think, however, the Court of Civil Appeals erred in holding that the admission in evidence of acts of official misconduct during the plaintiff in error's first term of office should not work a reversal of the judgment against him. The jury, under the direction of the court, as provided in Article 6043, there being more than one distinct cause of removal alleged, did, by separate findings in their verdict, say which cause they found to be sustained by the evidence and which were not sustained, and they found acts of official misconduct in both terms of office. We think, however, that the admission in evidence of other and separate acts charged and found by the jury to have been committed during the first term in office could not help but be prejudicial to plaintiff in error and to have influenced the jury in their findings upon the issues submitted to them of acts committed during the second term, and should not have been admitted for any purpose.

For the reasons stated herein, the judgments of the Court of Civil Appeals and of the District Court are reversed and the cause is remanded.

Reversed and remanded."
A 1924 Supreme Court case regarding removal of a county sheriff. Texas Civil Statutes were revised and renumbered in 1925, so I presume what was Art. 6055 was renumbered as Art. 5986 at that time, then codified into the Govt. Code as Sec. 665.081 in 1993.

However, in the 1955 Supreme Court ruling in In re Carillo cited above, the Court held that 6055/5986/665.081 only applies to offices where there is not a procedure set forth in the Texas Constitution for the removal of the elected official. The Constitution specifies a procedure for the removal of the AG in Art. XV, Sec. 2. It does not specify a procedure for removal of a county sheriff. Further, the Carillo court specifically referred to acts of misconduct committed prior to reelection that were not in any way absolved by a subsequent election as grounds for impeachment.

Again, the distinction is that Reeves applies to offices not otherwise governed by a procedure set forth in the Texas Constitution, while Carillo applies to those offices enumerated in the Constitution. If Paxton was County Attorney, he'd have a leg to stand on. But not as AG.
Good summary of the law.

Does/should Senator Angela Paxton recuse herself from the trial? State law says lawmakers should step aside from matters in which they have a personal stake. The more community property there is the wealthier she is (state retirement). She lives in the house that the wealthy donor remodeled for free (so she is a beneficiary of the illegal gift).
I believe the Tx constitution requires all senators to be in their seats during the trial. Is Sen Paxton even able to recuse herself? She wouldn't have to vote guilty or not guilty if she is present.
whitetrash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

whitetrash said:

whiterock said:

Link to case contained in post above:

https://casetext.com/case/reeves-v-state-of-texas-ex-rel-mason

Last few paragraphs: "The Court of Civil Appeals correctly held that the defendant Reeves, plaintiff in error here, could not be removed from office during his second term for offences committed during his first term. In support of this holding we advance the following reasons, in addition to those given by the Court of Civil Appeals which we approve:

Article 6030, R.S., provides for removal from office for certain acts of official misconduct while in office.

Article 6055, R.S., provides that "no officer shall be prosecuted or removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office."

As said by the Court of Civil Appeals, "the phrase `prior to his election to office' would, and is intended to, apply to a re-election as well as election in the first instance, since the re-election of the same officer is in legal effect the same as an original election. As the Constitution does not provide for continuity of terms of office, each `term of office' legally becomes an entity, separate and distinct from all other terms of the same office. This being so, the Legislature doubtless intended in the enactment of the statute to provide that an officer should not be removed for official misconduct except for acts committed after his election to the term of office he is then holding and from which it is attempted to oust him." Thurston v. Clark, 107 Cal. 285, 40 P. 435; Speed v. Common Council of Detroit, 98 Mich. 360, 39 Amer. St. Repts., 555; Smith v. Ling, 68 Cal. 324, 9 P. 171.

In Texas we have frequent elections; for county officers every two years. The main, if not the only, justification for such frequent elections is that thereby the elections are kept in the hands of and close to the people, and ample opportunity is afforded to retire incompetent or corrupt officers. We construe Article 6055 to mean that an officer cannot be removed for acts committed prior to his election to the term of office he is holding. An election to a second term is as much an "election to office" as to a first term. This doubtless is more consistent with the legislative intent, and is to give it a more practical value and application in connection with the purpose of the Act and our system of elections. To construe it differently would be to agree to the argument of defendant in error wherein it says: "Article 6055 Rev. Stat. by providing that no officer shall be removed from office for any act he may have committed prior to his election to office, in our opinion carries no more force than if such Article had not been enacted, as he could not be guilty of official misconduct until he was inducted into office by taking the oath of office and executing official bond." But we think the Legislature did not idly enact the Article, and that it should be given "force". To do so we must apply it only to acts committed subsequent to an election to the term the officer is holding, and from which it is sought to oust him.

We think, however, the Court of Civil Appeals erred in holding that the admission in evidence of acts of official misconduct during the plaintiff in error's first term of office should not work a reversal of the judgment against him. The jury, under the direction of the court, as provided in Article 6043, there being more than one distinct cause of removal alleged, did, by separate findings in their verdict, say which cause they found to be sustained by the evidence and which were not sustained, and they found acts of official misconduct in both terms of office. We think, however, that the admission in evidence of other and separate acts charged and found by the jury to have been committed during the first term in office could not help but be prejudicial to plaintiff in error and to have influenced the jury in their findings upon the issues submitted to them of acts committed during the second term, and should not have been admitted for any purpose.

For the reasons stated herein, the judgments of the Court of Civil Appeals and of the District Court are reversed and the cause is remanded.

Reversed and remanded."
A 1924 Supreme Court case regarding removal of a county sheriff. Texas Civil Statutes were revised and renumbered in 1925, so I presume what was Art. 6055 was renumbered as Art. 5986 at that time, then codified into the Govt. Code as Sec. 665.081 in 1993.

However, in the 1955 Supreme Court ruling in In re Carillo cited above, the Court held that 6055/5986/665.081 only applies to offices where there is not a procedure set forth in the Texas Constitution for the removal of the elected official. The Constitution specifies a procedure for the removal of the AG in Art. XV, Sec. 2. It does not specify a procedure for removal of a county sheriff. Further, the Carillo court specifically referred to acts of misconduct committed prior to reelection that were not in any way absolved by a subsequent election as grounds for impeachment.

Again, the distinction is that Reeves applies to offices not otherwise governed by a procedure set forth in the Texas Constitution, while Carillo applies to those offices enumerated in the Constitution. If Paxton was County Attorney, he'd have a leg to stand on. But not as AG.
Good summary of the law.

Does/should Senator Angela Paxton recuse herself from the trial? State law says lawmakers should step aside from matters in which they have a personal stake. The more community property there is the wealthier she is (state retirement). She lives in the house that the wealthy donor remodeled for free (so she is a beneficiary of the illegal gift).
I believe the Tx constitution requires all senators to be in their seats during the trial. Is Sen Paxton even able to recuse herself? She wouldn't have to vote guilty or not guilty if she is present.
Article XV, Sec. 3 of the Texas Constitution provides: "When the Senate is sitting as a Court of Impeachment, the Senators shall be on oath, or affirmation impartially to try the party impeached, and no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the Senators present."

So if she stays, 2/3 is 21 of 31. If she recuses, 2/3 is 20 of 30. One would presume she would vote to acquit. But can she swear to be impartial as required by the Constitution?

In any event, THIS is certainly a question of first impression for the Supreme Court, because there has never been a spouse of an impeached official in a position of sitting in judgment. Nor do I imagine the framers of the 1876 Constitution contemplated such a situation. One wonders if it would be raised on an interlocutory appeal (i.e., before trial) as to whether she is required to recuse, or whether it goes to trial and then gets raised on appeal (which could be exceptionally dicey if the vote turned out 20-11 to convict, with Angela as one of the 11).


P.S.: If Paxton is certain he has more than 11 in his corner, then she could gracefully recuse herself and appear above the fray. But if further salacious evidence comes out (as has been intimated by DeGuerin and Hardin) it could make a very awkward situation for some of those 11.

quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OsoCoreyell said:

J.B.Katz said:

chriscbear said:

Paxton impeachment is unfair and political. The charges and accusations are prior to 2022. He was reelected. He beat someone named Bush and Dems hate his guts because is a supporter of Trump. God bless Ken Paxton.
Son, if there really is a Hell, Ken Paxton has been on the express train there for a long, long time--long before he was elected TX A.G.

As for God blessing ole Ken, how many of these Commandments has Paxton broken?

  • Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  • Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
  • Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
  • Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  • Honor thy father and thy mother.
  • Thou shalt not kill.
  • Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  • Thou shalt not steal.
  • Thou shall not bear false witness.
  • Thou shall not covet.

Just, shut up. No one needs you to lecture us on commandments that you don't believe in.

Yeah, this is a Christian country, the rest of you shut up.

**** right off.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Aliceinbubbleland
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The conversation between Katz and Oso says it all. You don't have to be Christian when it comes to politics. You can sit on the first pew of itty bitty Baptist church and pray for the world and all the people but when it comes to action that merits those beliefs (like President Carter) the rest are like **** you.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
From DMN:

Buzbee anticipated that if the case is not tossed out quickly, proceedings could last for a long time. He said they identified 66 witnesses to question and thousands of documents to gather.
"If this isn't dismissed summarily, then we are girded up for a fight," he said. "The whole thing is a sham engineered by someone with a personal vendetta against Attorney General Paxton and if it takes us a year to show that, then we'll take a year to do it."
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2023/06/07/houston-lawyer-tony-buzbee-will-lead-texas-ag-ken-paxtons-impeachment-defense/


whitetrash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Buzbee and Paxton will no doubt immediately bond over the common trials and tribulations of maintaining a side chick.

https://abc13.com/tony-buzbee-houston-attorney-woman-accused-of-damaging-art-river-oaks/2829928/
OsoCoreyell
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

From DMN:

Buzbee anticipated that if the case is not tossed out quickly, proceedings could last for a long time. He said they identified 66 witnesses to question and thousands of documents to gather.
"If this isn't dismissed summarily, then we are girded up for a fight," he said. "The whole thing is a sham engineered by someone with a personal vendetta against Attorney General Paxton and if it takes us a year to show that, then we'll take a year to do it."
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2023/06/07/houston-lawyer-tony-buzbee-will-lead-texas-ag-ken-paxtons-impeachment-defense/



Who better to defend a bunch of garbage than the garbage man?
Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OsoCoreyell said:

Osodecentx said:

From DMN:

Buzbee anticipated that if the case is not tossed out quickly, proceedings could last for a long time. He said they identified 66 witnesses to question and thousands of documents to gather.
"If this isn't dismissed summarily, then we are girded up for a fight," he said. "The whole thing is a sham engineered by someone with a personal vendetta against Attorney General Paxton and if it takes us a year to show that, then we'll take a year to do it."
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2023/06/07/houston-lawyer-tony-buzbee-will-lead-texas-ag-ken-paxtons-impeachment-defense/



Who better to defend a bunch of garbage than the garbage man?


Buz is formidable
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:


Like I said before,
Let the race for lawyer posturing begin!
OsoCoreyell
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Osodecentx said:

OsoCoreyell said:

Osodecentx said:

From DMN:

Buzbee anticipated that if the case is not tossed out quickly, proceedings could last for a long time. He said they identified 66 witnesses to question and thousands of documents to gather.
"If this isn't dismissed summarily, then we are girded up for a fight," he said. "The whole thing is a sham engineered by someone with a personal vendetta against Attorney General Paxton and if it takes us a year to show that, then we'll take a year to do it."
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2023/06/07/houston-lawyer-tony-buzbee-will-lead-texas-ag-ken-paxtons-impeachment-defense/



Who better to defend a bunch of garbage than the garbage man?


Buz is formidable
OK. He seems to think this is a piece of normal litigation with the rules of evidence and procedure where he gets to drag out the process. Whether or not he's allowed to do that is really up to the Senate members themselves. One might reflect that the reason this ended up the way it did was because Ken refused to resign during the primaries, and when he was in the general, the party didn't want to/couldn't force him out of the race because that would've handed the AG office to the Dems. So they had to wait until the normal session to take action. Ken conveniently paints this as some kind of last-minute sandbagging when he knows good-and-well that the timing was basically responsive to the choices he left folks. We'll see if those same people are interested in a long, drawn out trial that is bad for the party and the State of Texas. One thing that Ken has made abundantly clear, he dosn't give a rip about what's good for anyone but Ken.
GrowlTowel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
OsoCoreyell said:

Osodecentx said:

OsoCoreyell said:

Osodecentx said:

From DMN:

Buzbee anticipated that if the case is not tossed out quickly, proceedings could last for a long time. He said they identified 66 witnesses to question and thousands of documents to gather.
"If this isn't dismissed summarily, then we are girded up for a fight," he said. "The whole thing is a sham engineered by someone with a personal vendetta against Attorney General Paxton and if it takes us a year to show that, then we'll take a year to do it."
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2023/06/07/houston-lawyer-tony-buzbee-will-lead-texas-ag-ken-paxtons-impeachment-defense/



Who better to defend a bunch of garbage than the garbage man?


Buz is formidable
OK. He seems to think this is a piece of normal litigation with the rules of evidence and procedure where he gets to drag out the process. Whether or not he's allowed to do that is really up to the Senate members themselves. One might reflect that the reason this ended up the way it did was because Ken refused to resign during the primaries, and when he was in the general, the party didn't want to/couldn't force him out of the race because that would've handed the AG office to the Dems. So they had to wait until the normal session to take action. Ken conveniently paints this as some kind of last-minute sandbagging when he knows good-and-well that the timing was basically responsive to the choices he left folks. We'll see if those same people are interested in a long, drawn out trial that is bad for the party and the State of Texas. One thing that Ken has made abundantly clear, he dosn't give a rip about what's good for anyone but Ken.


Hit the nail on the head. Only reason we are here is because Paxton didn't yield to Bush in the primaries.

Dang those voters who picked wrong.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.