Mitch Blood Green said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

What you're missing is Obama, Biden, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Pence, nor anyone else has done this.

A better hypothetical is if you or me did this, how many chances would the government have given us to return the files? We'd be 18 months in jail either awaiting trial or 18 months into a sentence.

There is a double standard here but it's not the way conservatives are portraying it.

---

So you're in the "he didn't respond and return fast enough" camp?

ATL Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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You want to know why some of us don't vote for the other guys? Because we know they have no principles and they're willing to act recklessly with impunity. So when our own guy who constantly acted recklessly with impunity is now in trouble for his actions the defense is, "well the other guys have been doing it or worse and nothing happened"! We already knew this all along. Why the hell do you think we don't support them? But for some of you the answer is to double down on our guy who's acting in the similar manner as them?? How about some integrity and be opposed to both? No matter how much you love your dog, if they have fleas and you let it go, eventually you're going to get them.

Work the problem, not the person.

---

Nice speech.

But at the end of the day, if you allow the Democrats to use the courts as a weapon against Trump, you know damn well they won't stop with him.

They will go after DeSantis if he wins the nomination just the same as they trashed Romney in 2012, lying that he did not pay his taxes.

They will go after Scott if he wins the nomination just the same as they attacked Judge (now Justice) Kavanaugh with false rape allegations.

Long before Trump ever ran for President, Obama weaponized the IRS to target and attack Conservative groups, and in so doing dismantled a lot of groups who could and should have played a proper role in the 2012 and 2014 elections.

The problem is that the Democrats have created a weapon that threatens the very foundation of our nation.

The choice is whether you allow that corruption to grow even stronger, just because you cannot stand to protect Trump from that corrupted power.

---

Yet instead of dealing with the matters that I concur are at issue, we gave them an easy target and someone acting just like them. The problem with Trump is that while they never gave quarter to Republicans, nor will they in the future, we didn't give them anything substantive to support their claims and they looked like the idiots they are. We lost that with Trump. You don't fight corruption with corruption.

---

Nice rant.

Pays absolutely no attention to what I just said.

---

Addressed it directly. The threat the Democrats have always posed is their blatant abuse of power. The fact our guy didn't get away with it and they did/have thus far is only a symptom. If we argue our guy should get away with it because of the former we're no different than them.

---

No, you did not address the problem, You decided to let the Democrats get away with their abuse, because defending Trump is unacceptable to you.

You don't want Trump to be the nominee, so you are going along with this outrageous abuse of power.

Ergo, you have endorsed their corruption and become one of them.

Trump at his worst was far better than Biden or Obama, and you know that.

Have you looked at the specific charges? Compared them with the known facts?

---

Yes, he's incredibly guilty. I believe Biden, or at least his son to be guilty as well. Your argument is stupid. I'm letting the others get away because o think both are guilty?? WTH?

---

So trump incredibly guilty and Biden etc just guilty?

Got it

sombear said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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sombear said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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quash said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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regarding the classified documents found at Mar-A-Lago. No specifics available yet.

The Biden Administration, Department of Justice, the FBI, and CIA are rotten to the core. If they are not careful, they may get to see what a real insurrection looks like. The Deep State is alive and well. I do not like Donald Trump, but this is a sad day for our country.

---

.
I've read the indictment. You're delusional. Get familiar with Waltine.

---

I wonder what the Libertarian position is on a sitting President having his top political rival indicted for mishandling documents? A sitting President that is in possession of classified documents from when he was a Senator and Vice President? Please ask one and get back to me.

---

Well, Trump , while President, did everything possible to take down Biden, including conditioning foreign aide on help investigating him.

---

When Trump was President, Biden was as insignificant as a pimple on an elephant's ass. Unfortunately, that's how most world leaders perceive Biden as President. Sad.

---

No, he was the leading candidate for the Dem nomination and later obviously the actual nominee.

---

Not true. Up until Super Tuesday it was unclear that racist like Obama would make it to Wednesday. That's why the field was so terribad, even by Dem socialist standards. Dems knew they had no chance….the covid

Mothra said:

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sombear said:

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Mothra said:

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HuMcK said:

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The Hillary case was exactly what I was alluding to. "Buttery males"="but-her-e-mails". Comey was quite clear in his justification presser that they could not establish intentionality or willful acts in defiance of the law, so even if not an actual statutory element, that's where the bar was set. He probably set it there thinking there was no way someone would be stupid enough to ever reach it, but that was the pre-Trump era.

Again, if just storing the info off site was prosecutable, that would be some bad news for Ivanka and Jared, but that's not even close to what happened here (meaning the Trump admin did in fact benefit from the "Hillary precedent"). They have Trump's dumb ass on tape bragging the he kept things he knew he wasn't supposed to (i.e. a corrupt purpose) and was deliberately concealing them from DoJ after a subpoena...what choice does law enforcement have at that point?

I didn't love that Hillary got a pass, so much so that I did not vote for her (you still voted for Trump and would again as I recall, like a good little partisan), but Trump's conduct is so far beyond and more egregious than what she (or anyone else really) did. There has to be a line somewhere, DoJ has decided it lies at the point of deliberate and willful misconduct (for public figures anyway, Reality Winner shows that the bar is a little lower for the rest of us) and I am at peace with that.

---

You're significantly down-playing HRC's conduct. The criminal intent element was not the mere fact she stored classified information off site. If that were the standard then Biden would likewise be prosecuted.

Instead, it was the fact she set up a private server outside of govt. oversight to send classified information, and then deliberately destroyed most of the evidence of her misconduct. The intent element could be inferred from that conduct, as Comey himself later said in his memoir. Interestingly, he also admitted that his decision not to prosecute was in part based on the fact she was the democrat presidential candidate.

I'm not defending Trump. I think he's despicable and that his conduct was in line with his behavior. But let's not pretend HRC's conduct was all that different legally. There's a clear double standard here that you're conveniently ignoring.

---

A strong majority of experts agreed with Comey that Hillary's case was a close call, and most former prosecutors agreed they would not have charged her based on the available facts. Some disagreed. My pro-Trump law contacts agreed with Comey and said if you charge Hillary, you'd have to charge hundreds or even thousands from both parties.

I'm just surprised more folks don't recall that the Repubs - led by Grassley - continued to investigate the Hillary mess for 3 years into the Trump administration and found no wrongdoing.

But, regardless, there is no way to get around the fact that what Trump allegedly did is at an entirely differently level in multiple respects. I'm sure we can dig something up on twitter but I've not read, heard, or talked to one attorney who has argued with a straight face that others would not be charged for these same crimes. Even legal experts who have defended Trump from day one say this is much different.

---

I don't know. I'm not sure how different it is. I haven't seen any evidence that he tried to use the information for nefarious purposes. It seems he was extremely careless and flippant in sharing some of the information. His worst offense may have been his response to the subpoena, if he encouraged people to lie in response. We will see, but I don't see it as markedly different than HRC.

---

I feel dirty in any way defending HRC. I've despised the Clintons since college in the early 90s!

But, read the Senate report and all the reports of the FBI's investigation.

HRC produced all info the FBI requested - servers, docs, phones, computers, etc.
- Trump allegedly actively concealed info, advised his attorneys to do the same, and allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance.
HRC did not lie to the FBI in her interview.
- Trump allegedly lied and said he had given the FBI access to all documents.
HRC did not destroy anything after FBI commenced investigation.
- Trump allegedly did.
The classified info on HRC's server was a 1 on 1-10 scale of sensitivity.
- The info Trump allegedly concealed and disclosed was a 10.
HRC did not show actual classified info to third parties.
- Trump allegedly showed and described highly sensitive info to multiple others who had no clearance.

The only comparable facts relate to possession. HRC possessed info on a server that could have been hacked. Trump possessed info throughout a public area (Mar-A-Lago) that any number of folks could have accessed. I'm not sure which is worse, but again, Trump's info was far more sensitive.

*

Fre3dombear said:

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sombear said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

sombear said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

quash said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

regarding the classified documents found at Mar-A-Lago. No specifics available yet.

The Biden Administration, Department of Justice, the FBI, and CIA are rotten to the core. If they are not careful, they may get to see what a real insurrection looks like. The Deep State is alive and well. I do not like Donald Trump, but this is a sad day for our country.

---

.
I've read the indictment. You're delusional. Get familiar with Waltine.

---

I wonder what the Libertarian position is on a sitting President having his top political rival indicted for mishandling documents? A sitting President that is in possession of classified documents from when he was a Senator and Vice President? Please ask one and get back to me.

---

Well, Trump , while President, did everything possible to take down Biden, including conditioning foreign aide on help investigating him.

---

When Trump was President, Biden was as insignificant as a pimple on an elephant's ass. Unfortunately, that's how most world leaders perceive Biden as President. Sad.

---

No, he was the leading candidate for the Dem nomination and later obviously the actual nominee.

---

Not true. Up until Super Tuesday it was unclear that racist like Obama would make it to Wednesday. That's why the field was so terribad, even by Dem socialist standards. Dems knew they had no chance….the covid

---

Biden announced he was running in April 2019 and polls immediately and consistently showed him the favorite. Trump's infamous Ukraine phone call was 3 months later, and Trump's efforts against Biden continued after that.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

What you're missing is Obama, Biden, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Pence, nor anyone else has done this.

A better hypothetical is if you or me did this, how many chances would the government have given us to return the files? We'd be 18 months in jail either awaiting trial or 18 months into a sentence.

There is a double standard here but it's not the way conservatives are portraying it.

---

So you're in the "he didn't respond and return fast enough" camp?

---

I don't know that camp. I'm in the "Keep your eye on the sparrow" camp.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Have you read the specific charges?

Do you understand who has the relevant authority in matters of Presidential Records?

Calling Trump "guilty" at this point is premature at best, and demonstrates the same garbage bias we have seen in all these threads.

And since I suspect I need to be clear, defending Trump on these charges is not at all the same thing as endorsing Trump for 2024. But throwing him under the bus does demonstrate that you are cool with abuse of power as long as you hate the target.

---

Will bet he either settles or is convicted. No way he is acquited of 37 charges. All I want y bet is you saying I was right... You are right, I have no problem saying you called it.

I laid out why I think he is toast on this one. Him tweeting asking for help, indicates to me I am on right track.

By the way, I suspect whether you endorse him or not is going to be moot when this plays out...

---

1. No chance he settles. I think we can at least agree that Trump is not one to agree to any kind of legal guilt.

2. Any trial in DC or a metropolitan city will acquit a Democrat/convict a Republican. The interesting question is what the Appeals Court/SCOTUS will do.

3. The number of charges is irrelevant. That's playing for media. Remember the Manhattan DA basically had one charge, but he repeated it dozens of times to make it look worse.

4. The best and worst thing about this issue, is that it will shut down debate of many other issues. The good thing is that we have a flood of classified documents, and frankly we are overdue to revamp rules for how such documents must be handled by politicians. If Hillary Clinton, Mike Pence or others think this will end with Trump, they are lying to themselves. The bad thing is that a lot of legit issues will get ignored in 2024. That's bad for the country, no matter your politics.

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

---

I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

---

Please cite those attorneys

---

You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

---

Imaginary.
You're a Bull****ter

Old Bear...

The trial is not in D.C. It will be in Palm Beach after hearing in Miami Tuesday. By a Judge Trump appointed no less. Keep up.

I predict right now he won't be found guilty because it will be hard to find all 12 people who think alike on Trump.

I can't imagine how he would walk on all charges but I guess anything is possible when dealing with Trump.

LOL at either the wife or daughter who didn't want top secret documents on private plane because it would cramp her luggage for weight restricted takeoff. It didn't matter they were illegal documents being transported. It would just interfere with her luggage.

With the Trumps it is like Let Them Eat Cake

Osodecentx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

---

I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

---

Please cite those attorneys

---

You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

---

Imaginary.
You're a Bull****ter

---

Google is your friend. If too Lazy to Seek truth, that's on you

Oldbear83 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Have you read the specific charges?

Do you understand who has the relevant authority in matters of Presidential Records?

Calling Trump "guilty" at this point is premature at best, and demonstrates the same garbage bias we have seen in all these threads.

And since I suspect I need to be clear, defending Trump on these charges is not at all the same thing as endorsing Trump for 2024. But throwing him under the bus does demonstrate that you are cool with abuse of power as long as you hate the target.

---

Will bet he either settles or is convicted. No way he is acquited of 37 charges. All I want y bet is you saying I was right... You are right, I have no problem saying you called it.

I laid out why I think he is toast on this one. Him tweeting asking for help, indicates to me I am on right track.

By the way, I suspect whether you endorse him or not is going to be moot when this plays out...

---

1. No chance he settles. I think we can at least agree that Trump is not one to agree to any kind of legal guilt.

2. Any trial in DC or a metropolitan city will acquit a Democrat/convict a Republican. The interesting question is what the Appeals Court/SCOTUS will do.

3. The number of charges is irrelevant. That's playing for media. Remember the Manhattan DA basically had one charge, but he repeated it dozens of times to make it look worse.

4. The best and worst thing about this issue, is that it will shut down debate of many other issues. The good thing is that we have a flood of classified documents, and frankly we are overdue to revamp rules for how such documents must be handled by politicians. If Hillary Clinton, Mike Pence or others think this will end with Trump, they are lying to themselves. The bad thing is that a lot of legit issues will get ignored in 2024. That's bad for the country, no matter your politics.

---

Trump will only settle if it is that or jail time.

They will try in Palm Beach. They must be awfully sure of their case to do that. But, I suspect that they know they have a slam dunk case or they wouldn't indict, they know if they don't convict it will backfire.

Yeah, we won't get to debate policy, again. It will be all Trump all the time and the Nation sinks. Just what Biden wants, he is playing right into their plan. He is so predictable.

Fre3dombear said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

---

I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

---

Please cite those attorneys

---

You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

---

Imaginary.
You're a Bull****ter

---

Google is your friend. If too Lazy to Seek truth, that's on you

---

I'm just calling an obvious bluff. You're playing a pair of deuces

Osodecentx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

---

I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

---

Please cite those attorneys

---

You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

---

Imaginary.
You're a Bull****ter

---

Google is your friend. If too Lazy to Seek truth, that's on you

---

I'm just calling an obvious bluff. You're playing a pair of deuces

---

Okeydoke

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

---

I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

---

Please cite those attorneys

---

You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

---

I've legit tried. I've seen folks argue traditional witch hunt, that Trump was unfairly targeted at the outset, and that he should not be charged because he's a former president and the leading GOP candidate.

I've seen arguments that the feds may not have the evidence they claim to have.

I've seen arguments that the charges against Trump's valet are weak.

I've seen the silly de-classification arguments.

I've yet to see one attorney argue others would not be (or have not been) charged for the same alleged conduct during an FBI/Grand Jury investigation.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Old Bear...

The trial is not in D.C. It will be in Palm Beach after hearing in Miami Tuesday. By a Judge Trump appointed no less. Keep up.

I predict right now he won't be found guilty because it will be hard to find all 12 people who think alike on Trump.

I can't imagine how he would walk on all charges but I guess anything is possible when dealing with Trump.

LOL at either the wife or daughter who didn't want top secret documents on private plane because it would cramp her luggage for weight restricted takeoff. It didn't matter they were illegal documents being transported. It would just interfere with her luggage.

With the Trumps it is like Let Them Eat Cake

---

Agree. Trump is counting on jury nullification, and I think he'll get it. One or more FL jurors will hold out.

I don't see how he beats this. He's dead guilty. And they've got the goods.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

regarding the classified documents found at Mar-A-Lago. No specifics available yet.

The Biden Administration, Department of Justice, the FBI, and CIA are rotten to the core. If they are not careful, they may get to see what a real insurrection looks like. The Deep State is alive and well. I do not like Donald Trump, but this is a sad day for our country.

---

All he had to do was turn the documents over and he'd be fine. He should go to jail.

sombear said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Old Bear...

The trial is not in D.C. It will be in Palm Beach after hearing in Miami Tuesday. By a Judge Trump appointed no less. Keep up.

I predict right now he won't be found guilty because it will be hard to find all 12 people who think alike on Trump.

I can't imagine how he would walk on all charges but I guess anything is possible when dealing with Trump.

LOL at either the wife or daughter who didn't want top secret documents on private plane because it would cramp her luggage for weight restricted takeoff. It didn't matter they were illegal documents being transported. It would just interfere with her luggage.

With the Trumps it is like Let Them Eat Cake

---

Agree. Trump is counting on jury nullification, and I think he'll get it. One or more FL jurors will hold out.

---

This is a setup. The venue, the judge, and the SC for Biden. They got him, they know it and they are taking away every excuse. This should scare Trumps legal team

This judge may be put in a position to over rule the jury if they just disregard the evidence. I don't know enough about it any Florida attorneys here?

Fre3dombear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

---

What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

---

If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

---

100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

---

I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

---

Please cite those attorneys

---

You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

---

Imaginary.
You're a Bull****ter

---

Google is your friend. If too Lazy to Seek truth, that's on you

---

I'm just calling an obvious bluff. You're playing a pair of deuces

---

Okeydoke

---

And he folds

Tempus Edax Rerum said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

regarding the classified documents found at Mar-A-Lago. No specifics available yet.

The Biden Administration, Department of Justice, the FBI, and CIA are rotten to the core. If they are not careful, they may get to see what a real insurrection looks like. The Deep State is alive and well. I do not like Donald Trump, but this is a sad day for our country.

---

All he had to do was turn the documents over and he'd be fine. He should go to jail.

---

Horse ***** Should Hillary Clinton have gone to jail? You have no problem with this dual system of justice? This behavior by government should concern EVERY American. Especially conservatives.

This is like saying two different people robbed two different banks but only one was caught. Why the F can't you acknowledge the fact that BOTH are ****ing crooks and yet you support one because he pisses you off less?

Were you born in Oklahoma?

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

This is like saying two different people robbed two different banks but only one was caught. Why the F can't you acknowledge the fact that BOTH are ****ing crooks and yet you support one because he pisses you off less?

Were you born in Oklahoma?

---

Actually, I was born in Arkansas. I despise Trump, but he is the only one that has the balls and the ability to clean up the corrupt s h i t show that we refer to as our federal government. DeSantis lacks the experience and Tim Scott is too nice.

For the record, Hillary and Trump were both caught. Only one has been charged. That is the problem. In my perfect world, Trump, Biden, and Hillary would all go away.

FLBear5630 said:

---

sombear said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Old Bear...

The trial is not in D.C. It will be in Palm Beach after hearing in Miami Tuesday. By a Judge Trump appointed no less. Keep up.

I predict right now he won't be found guilty because it will be hard to find all 12 people who think alike on Trump.

I can't imagine how he would walk on all charges but I guess anything is possible when dealing with Trump.

LOL at either the wife or daughter who didn't want top secret documents on private plane because it would cramp her luggage for weight restricted takeoff. It didn't matter they were illegal documents being transported. It would just interfere with her luggage.

With the Trumps it is like Let Them Eat Cake

---

Agree. Trump is counting on jury nullification, and I think he'll get it. One or more FL jurors will hold out.

---

This is a setup. The venue, the judge, and the SC for Biden. They got him, they know it and they are taking away every excuse. This should scare Trumps legal team

This judge may be put in a position to over rule the jury if they just disregard the evidence. I don't know enough about it any Florida attorneys here?

---

How is it a setup? Genuinely would like to know.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

This is like saying two different people robbed two different banks but only one was caught. Why the F can't you acknowledge the fact that BOTH are ****ing crooks and yet you support one because he pisses you off less?

Were you born in Oklahoma?

---

Actually, I was born in Arkansas. I despise Trump, but he is the only one that has the balls and the ability to clean up the corrupt s h i t show that we refer to as our federal government. DeSantis lacks the experience and Tim Scott is too nice.

For the record, Hillary and Trump were both caught. Only one has been charged. That is the problem. In my perfect world, Trump, Biden, and Hillary would all go away.

---

Then vote them out.

OsoCoreyell said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

This is like saying two different people robbed two different banks but only one was caught. Why the F can't you acknowledge the fact that BOTH are ****ing crooks and yet you support one because he pisses you off less?

Were you born in Oklahoma?

---

Actually, I was born in Arkansas. I despise Trump, but he is the only one that has the balls and the ability to clean up the corrupt s h i t show that we refer to as our federal government. DeSantis lacks the experience and Tim Scott is too nice.

For the record, Hillary and Trump were both caught. Only one has been charged. That is the problem. In my perfect world, Trump, Biden, and Hillary would all go away.

---

Then vote them out.

---

I will go through the motions and cast my vote. I have ZERO faith in the integrity of our voting system at this point. We have become Venezuela. I am sorry I feel that way, but I do.

Biden’s gonna be scattered, smothered, chunked and covered. #Trump2024@WaffleHouse pic.twitter.com/Etyo5lEqFK

— Marjorie Taylor Greene 🇺🇸 (@mtgreenee) June 10, 2023

HuMcK said:

---

The Hillary case was exactly what I was alluding to. "Buttery males"="but-her-e-mails". Comey was quite clear in his justification presser that they could not establish intentionality or willful acts in defiance of the law, so even if not an actual statutory element, that's where the bar was set. He probably set it there thinking there was no way someone would be stupid enough to ever reach it, but that was the pre-Trump era.

Again, if just storing the info off site was prosecutable, that would be some bad news for Ivanka and Jared, but that's not even close to what happened here (meaning the Trump admin did in fact benefit from the "Hillary precedent"). They have Trump's dumb ass on tape bragging the he kept things he knew he wasn't supposed to (i.e. a corrupt purpose) and was deliberately concealing them from DoJ after a subpoena...what choice does law enforcement have at that point?

I didn't love that Hillary got a pass, so much so that I did not vote for her (you still voted for Trump and would again as I recall, like a good little partisan), but Trump's conduct is so far beyond and more egregious than what she (or anyone else really) did. There has to be a line somewhere, DoJ has decided it lies at the point of deliberate and willful misconduct (for public figures anyway, Reality Winner shows that the bar is a little lower for the rest of us) and I am at peace with that.

---

I agree with you about Hillary, but I'm not sure Trump's knowledge that he was keeping things he wasn't supposed to constitutes a corrupt purpose. To me that would be something like selling secrets or blackmailing public officials.

I think this was a tough call -- not on guilt, but on the appropriateness of charging an ex-president and presidential candidate. It's somewhere in between what Biden did and the kind of substantive crime that would clearly demand prosecution.

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

---

I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

---

I defended him on Russia and Ukraine. To me J6 was worse than anything else. The crimes you listed are a lot more cut and dried, to be sure, but you're still talking about process crimes.

Alright. Let me move on lol

Hannity:“I can’t imagine you ever saying, ‘Bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the White House. I’d like to look at them.’”

Trump: “I would do that”

Hannity: “Alright, let me move on—”

Trump: “I have the right to take stuff!”

pic.twitter.com/cUuus4jMY5

— Keith Edwards (@keithedwards) June 10, 2023

OsoCoreyell said:

---

I don't see how he beats this. He's dead guilty. And they've got the goods.

---

That's in your mind. The Real World may be a lot different.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

Alright. Let me move on lol

Hannity:“I can’t imagine you ever saying, ‘Bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the White House. I’d like to look at them.’”

Trump: “I would do that”

Hannity: “Alright, let me move on—”

Trump: “I have the right to take stuff!”

pic.twitter.com/cUuus4jMY5

— Keith Edwards (@keithedwards) June 10, 2023

---

Melania wants her panties returned. I don't think that is too much for her to ask.

The DOJ is indicting Trump, in part, for joking with his lawyer?

Trump's rhetorical questions about consequences are now obstructive?

Whew... pic.twitter.com/0gdBNosdrl

— Techno Fog (@Techno_Fog) June 9, 2023

Osodecentx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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sombear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Those that like Desantis, do you not realize they will treat him exactly the same as Trump or worse?

If you think this helps, you're not seeing the big picture.

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I've never understood this argument. Of course Dems will go after Repubs, just as Repubs went after Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. That's how the game is played. The answer is not whining about it or doubling down on a buffoon, but rather, nominate normal, decent candidates who are not easy to attack. Reagan, the Bushes, and numerous successful GOP Governors and Senators withstood attacks just fine.

I've defended Trump on his legal troubles from Russia to Ukraine to J6 and everything in between. This is different. If even half of what is alleged in the indictment is true, he should be convicted and do real time. These are egregious crimes to say the least. And, unlike the other matters, he cannot blame anyone but himself.

If true, he intentionally (1) suggested his own attorneys destroy subpoenad evidence, (2) concealed subpoenad evidence, (3) allowed his attorneys to falsely certify compliance with subpoenas, and (4) lied to the FBI.

If these crimes don't bother you, how about exposing some of our most top secret defense and nuclear information by keeping it in public areas and then worse, actually showing it to and discussing with third parties and bragging that it is top secret? He put our country at risk.

And this is the guy you defend and use as an example why others will be treated the same way? Would Desantis, Scott, and Haley do this crap? Have others? No and No.

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They're letting Biden get away with pay for play bribery. Hillary destroyed classified data she stored on her server.

The difference is Trump is actually going to be locked up while everyone else gets a free pass.

It's the unequal application of law that YOU CANT DENY.

Do you really not think they'll use extreme lawfare on Desantis?

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What you fail to acknowledge is Trump is the exception. Both parties have gone after each other and will continue to. Trump is the only Republican making it easy for the Dems.

I can and do deny it IN THIS CASE. Unequal application requires similar facts. No other case comes close to what the indictment alleges about Trump. Trump has only himself to blame. And he knowingly put our country at risk.

HRC's case was completely different, and again, Repubs themselves found no wrongdoing after a 3-year investigation.

We will see what happens with Biden. The evidence seems to be piling up that he was directly involved.

Of course the Dems will come after Desantis, but what are the allegations . . . military service, a good family, keeping his state open during COVID, and taking on Disney/woke teachers?

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If Obama or Biden did exactly what Trump has done here, nobody would touch it.

That's what you're not understanding.

Nothing is going to happen to Biden.

What facts GOP presented about HRC are far worse than what Trump is being accused of here. Nobody was willing to actually hold her accountable. THATS A HUGE F 'ING PROBLEM.

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100% disagree. Anyone who did what Trump appears to have done during an FBI investigation is charged and does real time. Again, I've not seen, heard, nor talked to one attorney who argues otherwise. Others from both parties have been charged for a lot less - Berger, Petraeus and countless others.

I despise Hillary, but Comey did likely cost her the election with his press conference. But, regardless, the allegations against her came nowhere close to the allegations against Trump: (1) no willful element, (2) no obstruction of FBI investigation, (3) no telling own attorneys to destroy, (4) no purposefully showing some of the most highly sensitive intel to others, and (5) the level of intel on a scale of 1-10 was a 1, while Trump's was a 10 (highly sensitive defense and nuclear intel).

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I invested 30 seconds googling and found interviews with 4 attorneys whose names I know stating regarding the charges:

Weak
Unprecedented absurd
Politically motivated
Doesn't even rise to a Nixon level (which is know as weak)

A couple are known democrats. The others, unsure kf political Affiliation

The way you state it, it is interesting that such esteemed lawyers would go on the record in a case you suggest is tantamount to Benedict Arnold / Quisling type offense

Now the nation should trust the people that screamed and weeped Russia, peepeegate, Putin and Facebook posts for Trump Elected for 4+ years?

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Please cite those attorneys

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You can Google it yourself. It's all right there

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Imaginary.
You're a Bull****ter

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Google is your friend. If too Lazy to Seek truth, that's on you

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I'm just calling an obvious bluff. You're playing a pair of deuces

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Okeydoke

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And he folds

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You. Like a cheap suit.

Feel free to debate. If you can.

Fre3dombear said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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You want to know why some of us don't vote for the other guys? Because we know they have no principles and they're willing to act recklessly with impunity. So when our own guy who constantly acted recklessly with impunity is now in trouble for his actions the defense is, "well the other guys have been doing it or worse and nothing happened"! We already knew this all along. Why the hell do you think we don't support them? But for some of you the answer is to double down on our guy who's acting in the similar manner as them?? How about some integrity and be opposed to both? No matter how much you love your dog, if they have fleas and you let it go, eventually you're going to get them.

Work the problem, not the person.

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Nice speech.

But at the end of the day, if you allow the Democrats to use the courts as a weapon against Trump, you know damn well they won't stop with him.

They will go after DeSantis if he wins the nomination just the same as they trashed Romney in 2012, lying that he did not pay his taxes.

They will go after Scott if he wins the nomination just the same as they attacked Judge (now Justice) Kavanaugh with false rape allegations.

Long before Trump ever ran for President, Obama weaponized the IRS to target and attack Conservative groups, and in so doing dismantled a lot of groups who could and should have played a proper role in the 2012 and 2014 elections.

The problem is that the Democrats have created a weapon that threatens the very foundation of our nation.

The choice is whether you allow that corruption to grow even stronger, just because you cannot stand to protect Trump from that corrupted power.

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Yet instead of dealing with the matters that I concur are at issue, we gave them an easy target and someone acting just like them. The problem with Trump is that while they never gave quarter to Republicans, nor will they in the future, we didn't give them anything substantive to support their claims and they looked like the idiots they are. We lost that with Trump. You don't fight corruption with corruption.

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Nice rant.

Pays absolutely no attention to what I just said.

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Addressed it directly. The threat the Democrats have always posed is their blatant abuse of power. The fact our guy didn't get away with it and they did/have thus far is only a symptom. If we argue our guy should get away with it because of the former we're no different than them.

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No, you did not address the problem, You decided to let the Democrats get away with their abuse, because defending Trump is unacceptable to you.

You don't want Trump to be the nominee, so you are going along with this outrageous abuse of power.

Ergo, you have endorsed their corruption and become one of them.

Trump at his worst was far better than Biden or Obama, and you know that.

Have you looked at the specific charges? Compared them with the known facts?

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Yes, he's incredibly guilty. I believe Biden, or at least his son to be guilty as well. Your argument is stupid. I'm letting the others get away because o think both are guilty?? WTH?

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So trump incredibly guilty and Biden etc just guilty?

Got it

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Next time I'll match adjectives for the simpletons.

Sam Lowry said:

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HuMcK said:

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The Hillary case was exactly what I was alluding to. "Buttery males"="but-her-e-mails". Comey was quite clear in his justification presser that they could not establish intentionality or willful acts in defiance of the law, so even if not an actual statutory element, that's where the bar was set. He probably set it there thinking there was no way someone would be stupid enough to ever reach it, but that was the pre-Trump era.

Again, if just storing the info off site was prosecutable, that would be some bad news for Ivanka and Jared, but that's not even close to what happened here (meaning the Trump admin did in fact benefit from the "Hillary precedent"). They have Trump's dumb ass on tape bragging the he kept things he knew he wasn't supposed to (i.e. a corrupt purpose) and was deliberately concealing them from DoJ after a subpoena...what choice does law enforcement have at that point?

I didn't love that Hillary got a pass, so much so that I did not vote for her (you still voted for Trump and would again as I recall, like a good little partisan), but Trump's conduct is so far beyond and more egregious than what she (or anyone else really) did. There has to be a line somewhere, DoJ has decided it lies at the point of deliberate and willful misconduct (for public figures anyway, Reality Winner shows that the bar is a little lower for the rest of us) and I am at peace with that.

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I agree with you about Hillary, but I'm not sure Trump's knowledge that he was keeping things he wasn't supposed to constitutes a corrupt purpose. To me that would be something like selling secrets or blackmailing public officials.

I think this was a tough call -- not on guilt, but on the appropriateness of charging an ex-president and presidential candidate. It's somewhere in between what Biden did and the kind of substantive crime that would clearly demand prosecution.

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Hiding them, in the face of a subpoena, from the DOJ to keep them for yourself (to use for whatever purpose you want later) would be a corrupt purpose.