You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

There is simply no doubt that the Babylonian Talmud does discuss the Christian Jesus.

Prof. Peter Schafer at Princeton makes this clear in his book.


[Jesus in the Talmud reveals that the early Jewish-Christian relationship was not nearly as asymmetrical as we had thought. If Schafer is right, far from greeting the emergence of Christianity with silence, the rabbis answered the growing Christian triumphalism earlier, more forcefully, and more coherently than it at first seems. The effect is a reversal of the consensus view, as the Oxford scholar Geza Vermes once put it, that "open and deliberate doctrinal conflict on the Jewish side had to wait until the Middle Ages."

What Jesus in the Talmud demonstrates is that Rabbinic Judaism and orthodox Christianity did not evolve in ignorance of each other. From the beginning, these two nascent orthodoxies, more sisters than a mother and a daughter, vied for influence and narrative sovereignty. ]

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2007/06/talmudic-jesus

There is also some pretty wild stuff in the Talmud....some can argue it is taken out of context...but its still pretty wild.


Crazy & Funny Teachings of the Talmud:

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.


Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.


Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.


Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a w-hor-e in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.


Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.


Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.


Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.


Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.



Slanders against other groups:

The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."
Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30



"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
Coschen hamischpat 405


"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits"
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b


"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b


"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b


"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
Jore dea 377,


"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
Talmud Sanhedrin 74b


"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah". (Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah)
Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5


"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b


Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.


O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews:

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.


Jews Have Superior Legal Status:

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."



Jews May Steal from Non-Jews or Harm them:

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."


Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.


Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God


Jews May Lie to Non-Jews:

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.


Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.


Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.


Insults Against Mary and Jesus:

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a *****: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.


Gittin 57a. Says a certain Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."
Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"


Talmud Attacks Non jewish beliefs:

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.


Shabbath 116a. Jews may destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.



Stories about a Roman Holocaust?

Here are two early Holocaust/Mass killing tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were most likely not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews.)

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

Eh...that is debatable

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).

Especially if they follow and practice some of the more extremists teachings from the Talmud.

Sanhedrin 57a . "When a Jew murders a gentile ('Cuthean'), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep."

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

Eh...that is debatable

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).

Especially if they follow and practice some of the more extremists teachings from the Talmud.

Sanhedrin 57a . "When a Jew murders a gentile ('Cuthean'), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep."

---

We creatures can debate.

God decides.

Redbrickbear said:

---

There is also some pretty wild stuff in the Talmud....some can argue it is taken out of context...but its still pretty wild.


Crazy & Funny Teachings of the Talmud:

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.


Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.


Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.


Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a w-hor-e in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.


Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.


Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.


Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.


Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.



Slanders against other groups:

The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."
Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30



"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
Coschen hamischpat 405


"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits"
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b


"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b


"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b


"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
Jore dea 377,


"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
Talmud Sanhedrin 74b


"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah". (Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah)
Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5


"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b


Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.


O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews:

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.


Jews Have Superior Legal Status:

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."



Jews May Steal from Non-Jews or Harm them:

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."


Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.


Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God


Jews May Lie to Non-Jews:

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.


Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.


Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.


Insults Against Mary and Jesus:

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a *****: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.


Gittin 57a. Says a certain Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."
Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"


Talmud Attacks Non jewish beliefs:

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.


Shabbath 116a. Jews may destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.



Stories about a Roman Holocaust?

Here are two early Holocaust/Mass killing tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were most likely not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews.)

---

Assuming these quotes are accurate, they wouldn't apply to righteous gentiles.

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

The church is God's chosen people. The new covenant supersedes the old.

Titus and Titus said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

The church is God's chosen people. The new covenant supersedes the old.

---

Agreed, but I don't think the Rabbis circa 400 CE to 1900 CE would agree ...

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Slanders against other groups:

The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."
Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30



"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
Coschen hamischpat 405


"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits"
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b


"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b


"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b


"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
Jore dea 377,


"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
Talmud Sanhedrin 74b


"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah". (Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah)
Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5


"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b


Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.


O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews:

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.


Jews Have Superior Legal Status:

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."



Jews May Steal from Non-Jews or Harm them:

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."


Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.


Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God


Jews May Lie to Non-Jews:

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.


Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.


Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.


Insults Against Mary and Jesus:

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a *****: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.


Gittin 57a. Says a certain Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."
Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"


Talmud Attacks Non jewish beliefs:

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.


Shabbath 116a. Jews may destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.



Stories about a Roman Holocaust?

Here are two early Holocaust/Mass killing tales from the Talmud: Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were most likely not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews.)

---

Assuming these quotes are accurate, they wouldn't apply to righteous gentiles.

---

1. They are accurate.

2. I sure hope so. But just like with any teachings...some are not going to understand nuance or teach it to their followers that way.

For instance it is not uncommon to find Israeli people today who will tell you on the street that it is completely ok to kill the "idol worshippers"....the question then becomes who are the idol worshipers? Do they limit this to Canaanites/Philistines 4,000 years ago...or consider Christians today who venerate the Cross to be "idol worshipers"...

Titus and Titus said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

The church is God's chosen people. The new covenant supersedes the old.

---

Creatures debate.

God choses.

Personally, I love the Jews. Consider them intellecturally superior.

Despite centuries of horrible oppression they have not only persevered, but thrived.

Jews are going to heaven, as they have already survived hell.

"Personally, I love the Jews. Consider them intellecturally superior."

Depends on the individual.

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

The church is God's chosen people. The new covenant supersedes the old.

---

Creatures debate.

God choses.

Personally, I love the Jews. Consider them intellecturally superior.

Despite centuries of horrible oppression they have not only persevered, but thrived.

---

If you are going by just IQ level matched to ethnic group.....the Han in China have the highest average IQ levels on earth...average is 105 and above.


"Asiatics" have the highest average IQ (101-110), followed by "Caucasoids" (95-101)

Oldbear83 said:

---

"Personally, I love the Jews. Consider them intellecturally superior."

Depends on the individual.

---

Naturally.

Have met a MIT grad who could barely function outside of his research lab.




Do recall a couple of studies which put Jews at the head of the IQ pyramid.

I chose to accept the results. Others chose to dispute them.

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

The church is God's chosen people. The new covenant supersedes the old.

---

Creatures debate.

God choses.

Personally, I love the Jews. Consider them intellecturally superior.

Despite centuries of horrible oppression they have not only persevered, but thrived.

---

If you are going by just IQ level matched to ethnic group.....the Han in China have the highest average IQ levels on earth...average is 105 and above.


"Asiatics" have the highest average IQ (101-110), followed by "Caucasoids" (95-101)

---

Interesting take.

Thank you.

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

The church is God's chosen people. The new covenant supersedes the old.

---

Creatures debate.

God choses.

Personally, I love the Jews. Consider them intellecturally superior.

Despite centuries of horrible oppression they have not only persevered, but thrived.

---

If you are going by just IQ level matched to ethnic group.....the Han in China have the highest average IQ levels on earth...average is 105 and above.


"Asiatics" have the highest average IQ (101-110), followed by "Caucasoids" (95-101)

---

What is the MOE in that study?

Read the book Jesus in the Talmud by Peter Shafer and it will tell you exactly what Jews think of Jesus. The term Judeo-Christian is a misnomer and should not be used. They literally hate Christ and we are not similar to them. See 1 John 2:22 and that's all you need to know.

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Titus and Titus said:

---

I stumbled upon something recently that I thought was extremely interesting and I can't believe I didn't learn it in any of my religious courses. I've read the Talmud before, found it in the college library but I found this recently- The Disputation of Paris.

The Disputation of Paris (Hebrew: , romanized: Mishpat Pariz; French: disputation de Paris), also known as the Trial of the Talmud (French: procs du Talmud), took place in 1240 at the court of King Louis IX of France. It followed the work of Nicholas Donin, a Jewish convert to Christianity who translated the Talmud and pressed 35 charges against it to Pope Gregory IX by quoting a series of allegedly blasphemous passages about Jesus, Mary, or Christianity.[1] Four rabbis defended the Talmud against Donin's accusations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

---

Very intersting.


Notable jewish slanders against Jesus and the Christian Faith.


Explains why some Christian kingdoms expelled Jews.


Martin Luther took it much father. In one famous manuscript he wondered if it was a sin NOT to kill Jews.

---

Sadly Jews cannot go to Heaven it is said, as they don't believe Jesus is the Messiah

But if course, they aren't the only ones.

---

Jews are God's chosen people.

I am very confident they are going to heaven .

---

I am merely a caveman. But what is written suggests otherwise. In the end, I have no Say in the matter.

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

---

True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

ATL Bear said:

---

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

---

To discuss the Talmud….it's right in the topic header

You have any thoughts?

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

---

To discuss the Talmud….it's right in the topic header

You have any thoughts?

---

Other than a few wafts of Anti Semitism? You're not discussing the Talmud. You're taking shots at it and Judaism. Don't hide, just be honest.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

---

To discuss the Talmud….it's right in the topic header

You have any thoughts?

---

Other than a few wafts of Anti Semitism? You're not discussing the Talmud. You're taking shots at it and Judaism. Don't hide, just be honest.

---

1. People are in fact perfectly entitled to take shots at Judaism in a country with free speech written into its constitution if they want. It's a religion and can be criticized, discussed, even attacked just like all religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism included)

2. It's actually not a thread attacking Judaism. It's discussing the Talmud. A specific oral collection of teachings/discussions/rabbinical opinions inside of Judaism. And people on this thread have in fact been pretty generous in admitting that views on the Talmud are all over the place inside of Judaism (and even among Hasidic dynasties within orthodoxy).

Judaism is a monotheistic religion that has been around for at least 4,000 years.

The Talmud barley dates back more than 1/4th of that time.

Constantine the Great was ruling the Roman Empire and founding a new city in Byzantium when the Talmud was being created. And the angles and the saxons were settling England.

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

---

To discuss the Talmud….it's right in the topic header

You have any thoughts?

---

Other than a few wafts of Anti Semitism? You're not discussing the Talmud. You're taking shots at it and Judaism. Don't hide, just be honest.

---

1. People are in fact perfectly entitled to take shots at Judaism in a country with free speech written into its constitution if they want. It's a religion and can be criticized, discussed, even attacked just like all religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism included)

2. It's actually not a thread attacking Judaism. It's discussing the Talmud. A specific oral collection of teachings/discussions/rabbinical opinions inside of Judaism. And people on this thread have been pretty generous in admitting that views on the Talmud are all over the place inside of Judaism (and even among Hasidic dynasties within orthodoxy).

Judaism is a monotheistic religion that has been around for at least 4,000 years.

The Talmud barley dates back more than a 1/4th of that time.

Constantine the Great was ruling the Roman Empire and founding a new city in Byzantium when the Talmud was being created. And the angles and the saxons were settling England.

---

Perhaps I hit too close to the mark.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

---

To discuss the Talmud….it's right in the topic header

You have any thoughts?

---

Other than a few wafts of Anti Semitism? You're not discussing the Talmud. You're taking shots at it and Judaism. Don't hide, just be honest.

---

1. People are in fact perfectly entitled to take shots at Judaism in a country with free speech written into its constitution if they want. It's a religion and can be criticized, discussed, even attacked just like all religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism included)

2. It's actually not a thread attacking Judaism. It's discussing the Talmud. A specific oral collection of teachings/discussions/rabbinical opinions inside of Judaism. And people on this thread have been pretty generous in admitting that views on the Talmud are all over the place inside of Judaism (and even among Hasidic dynasties within orthodoxy).

Judaism is a monotheistic religion that has been around for at least 4,000 years.

The Talmud barley dates back more than a 1/4th of that time.

Constantine the Great was ruling the Roman Empire and founding a new city in Byzantium when the Talmud was being created. And the angles and the saxons were settling England.

---

Perhaps I hit too close to the mark.

---

Naw,

Perhaps you just wanted to imply bigotry or racism….when what was going on was a religious argument.

If anything we have had more philo-semitism on this thread (acknowledgment of Jewish ethic high IQ, respected/ancient religious history, and academic/cultural success) than anti-Semitic ideas.

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

---

True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

---

yet we still have people making the case that the ramblings of those ancient rabbis are evidence of modern Jewish xenophobia as manifested in an apartheid state known as Israel.

ATL Bear said:

---

Trying to figure out what the point of this thread is.

---

It's the sharp ouchy thing. Usually only shows up when you forget to look.

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

---

True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

---

yet we still have people making the case that the ramblings of those ancient rabbis are evidence of modern Jewish xenophobia as manifested in an apartheid state known as Israel.

---

What are you talking about? This is just a thoughtful discussion on the Talmud…

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

---

True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

---

yet we still have people making the case that the ramblings of those ancient rabbis are evidence of modern Jewish xenophobia as manifested in an apartheid state known as Israel.

---

What are you talking about? This is just a thoughtful discussion on the Talmud…

---

You really dislike free speech

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

---

True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

---

yet we still have people making the case that the ramblings of those ancient rabbis are evidence of modern Jewish xenophobia as manifested in an apartheid state known as Israel.

---

“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.”----Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, head of Shas Council of Torah Sages during a sermon delivered Oct. 2010 in Jerusalem pic.twitter.com/w71FSeHFD2

— Supposedly Kevin (@kewinajohnson) March 15, 2022

It seems like the ancient rabbis aren't very much different than the modern ones.

muddybrazos said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

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Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

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True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

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yet we still have people making the case that the ramblings of those ancient rabbis are evidence of modern Jewish xenophobia as manifested in an apartheid state known as Israel.

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“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.”----Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, head of Shas Council of Torah Sages during a sermon delivered Oct. 2010 in Jerusalem pic.twitter.com/w71FSeHFD2

— Supposedly Kevin (@kewinajohnson) March 15, 2022

It seems like the ancient rabbis aren't very much different than the modern ones.

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24429733

"Several hundred thousand people have attended the funeral in Jerusalem of influential Rabbi Ovadia Yosef."
This guy had a rather large funeral.

muddybrazos said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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You also have to realize that these Talmudic discourses were given long after the rise of Christianity. Making it more likely they reference Christianity at least in some places.

So there is reason to think that:

1. They do probably at least in certain areas reference the new Christian religion....a competitor faith at the time.

2. They Rabbis who created these commentaries have reason to be at least a little coy about coming straight out and saying "this is a straight up attack on the Christian Lord Jesus, his family, or his divine story"


For instance: Sanhedrin 106a. Says a certain Mary was a w-hor-e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Its possible this is a reference to another Mary unrelated to the Biblical Jesus....but is strains credulity to believe it.

It's much more likely it is a Rabbinic answer to and attack on the Christian reverence for Mary. Granting her noble descent but attacking her Virginity (very important to the Christians), attacking her moral character/truthfulness, and making a joke (playing the prostitutes with Carpenters)... of course the Christian Lord Jesus was himself a carpenter.

Here is another example: Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

[On the eve of Passover Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of Passover.]

Now could this be another Yeshu (Jesus) unrelated to the Christian Lord Jesus Christ? It's Possible.

But considering the execution took place during the Passover festival/holiday, and he "enticed Israel to apostacy", these would seem to be attacks on Jesus Christ with some play around the form of execution...in this case hanging instead of Crucifixion to give some plausible deniability that this was a reference to the Christian Jesus Christ.

Though of course Crucifixion is in a real sense a sort of death by "hanging"...hanging on a Cross and tortured to death.

That is the kind of attack and joke at the same time sort of thing you see in these commentaries.....many use humor and double meaning...

---

Hardly remarkable that Jewish Scholars would have made derisive assessments of what was, at the time, a small sect of "radical" Jews.

Does making fun of Mormon Magic Underwear mean we are Mormon-phobic?

---

True.

The only remarkable thing is still finding people to this day trying to deny that the ancient rabbis were insulting Jesus and Christianity.

Obviously any thinking person can plainly see that they were.

---

yet we still have people making the case that the ramblings of those ancient rabbis are evidence of modern Jewish xenophobia as manifested in an apartheid state known as Israel.

---

“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created.”----Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, head of Shas Council of Torah Sages during a sermon delivered Oct. 2010 in Jerusalem pic.twitter.com/w71FSeHFD2

— Supposedly Kevin (@kewinajohnson) March 15, 2022

It seems like the ancient rabbis aren't very much different than the modern ones.

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At least not much different from this very influential rabbi.

Definitely should provide some food for thought for American taxpayers.

LOL Jewish fundamentalism as a threat to international order?

You guys are working awfully hard to give yourselves a bad name....

whiterock said:

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LOL Jewish fundamentalism as a threat to international order?

You guys are working awfully hard to give yourselves a bad name....

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Judaism teaches Tikkun Olam or "repairing the world". Which completely denies the fact that Christ has already saved the world.