look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda. The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes. The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view. The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids. What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party!

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda. Now, what did the GOP accomplish with the majority? Nothing. Just like last time under Ryan. Why vote GOP? They can't or won't get anything done? Hell, they can't even agree within their own Party. GOP is in a very weakened position and the Freedom Caucus is front and center. Ask McCarthy and Johnson.

Surprised at your short-term view of the situation. But, that is what they want right? Nothing getting done and a weak GOP. I truly don't understand why the Freedom Caucus is even in the GOP.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

---

Seems like they are trying a new tactic out and seeing if they can sake things up in Congress from the usual back room-business as usual stuff.

Now maybe it wont work...but you cant criticize them for trying unless you just like the way our corrupt Congress works currently

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

---

Seems like they are trying a new tactic out and seeing if they can sake things up in Congress from the usual back room-business as usual stuff.

Now maybe it wont work...but you cant criticize them for trying unless you just like the way our corrupt Congress works currently

---

Would have liked to see the GOP pass Trump's Agenda in 2016-18 with House and Senate.

Would like to see the GOP with the majority pick one or two things to pass together, anything. Propose one solution that isn't "STOP" funding.

Seems to me that the ones not willing to work to fix something, be it the Border, Health Care, etc is the Freedom Caucus.

They seem to be AGAINST everything and for nothing. Seems the Freedom Caucus ties their support to what they don't want. So, if Ukraine funding is going through for whatever reason, they will tank Border control or immigration, defense, etc too.

There is not one item that Greene, Gaetz or any of the other MAGA bring forward with a solution. It is 100% negative, to stop things. I have a problem with that. If we get too many, nothing gets done. Trying to reduce Govt and spending to 1955 levels is a fool's errand.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

---

Seems like they are trying a new tactic out and seeing if they can sake things up in Congress from the usual back room-business as usual stuff.

Now maybe it wont work...but you cant criticize them for trying unless you just like the way our corrupt Congress works currently

---

Would have liked to see the GOP pass Trump's Agenda in 2016-18 with House and Senate.


Seems to me that the ones not willing to work to fix something, be it the Border, Health Care, etc is the Freedom Caucus.

They seem to be AGAINST everything and for nothing.

---

In that period the GOP controlled all 3 branches of government.

They only passed a tax cut for the rich.

They did not cut back the size of the Federal government, pull out of the wasteful foreign wars, end mass 3rd world immigration, and even eliminate things like racist DEI in the military.

Are you saying the Freedom Caucus was responsible for all that failure?

I know you think the Freedom Caucus is the root of all evil in the GOP but they have very little power compared to the institutional party leadership and the Donor class.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

---

Seems like they are trying a new tactic out and seeing if they can sake things up in Congress from the usual back room-business as usual stuff.

Now maybe it wont work...but you cant criticize them for trying unless you just like the way our corrupt Congress works currently

---

Seems to me that the ones not willing to work to fix something, be it the Border, Health Care, etc is the Freedom Caucus.

---

I would also like to know what policies you think in the Freedom caucus are so radical...

[REFORM THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN CONFERENCE: RECLAIM LEGISLATIVE IMPACT FOR THE PEOPLE'S REPRESENTATIVES:

To fix the House of Representatives, we must first put Republicans' own house in order. The governing rules of the House Republican Conference must be reformed to give all Members the power to fix Washington with a united front and to hold our own party leaders accountable.

1) Enact a "Majority of the Majority" Rule. Legislation passed in a Republican House should be supported by a majority of House Republicans. Our constituents did not elect us to cut deals with Democrats that cannot win the support of most Republicans. Not only will this force more unity and consensus among House Republicans by requiring us to tackle the tough issues together, but it upholds Republicans' commitment to voters that we will remain faithful to the promises we make.

2) Restore the Independence of Committees. To balance the power between committees and party leaders so that Members can meaningfully participate in the legislative process on behalf of their constituents, committees need to reclaim independence and authority. Instead of being selected based on loyalty towards and fundraising for party leadership, committee chairs should be elected by the members of their committee based on their qualifications and effectiveness

3) Diversify the Steering Committee. The Steering Committee makes nearly all decisions on committee assignments for House Republicans, but its makeup does not reflect all House Republicans and instead it is packed with party leaders and their close allies. As a result, decisions are made based on who is loyal to leadership and who delivers the most fundraising not who is best qualified.

4) Open the Legislative Process. For Members of Congress to represent the will of their constituents in lawmaking, they must have the ability to actually participate in making laws. No Member of the "People's House" has been allowed to offer an amendment in an open process to change legislation being considered on the floor since May 2016. The Republican 115th Congress broke the record for the most bills considered without amendments. Americans expect more from Republicans than to be mere rubber stamps, blocked from having any impact on legislation beyond voting for or against a final product. Republican Conference rules must be changed to require all legislation considered on the floor to allow amendments. If amendments must be limited to some degree, then any Republican amendment supported by at least 10 percent of the Republican Conference must be allowed to be offered, debated, and voted on.

5) Enforce Responsibility in Spending. Restoring fiscal responsibility requires being responsible with spending decisions. We will never rein in out-of-control spending if we continue governing with kick-the-can-down-the-road continuing resolutions and massive omnibus spending bills crafted in secret at the eleventh hour and rushed to the floor for a vote. The House is supposed to pass all twelve regular appropriations bills to fund the government by June 30 in time for the Senate to consider them and the President to sign them into law by the start of the fiscal year on October 1. This schedule hasn't been met in over two decades.

https://perry.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hfc_rules_reforms_proposal_7.25.2022.pdf]

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

---

Seems like they are trying a new tactic out and seeing if they can sake things up in Congress from the usual back room-business as usual stuff.

Now maybe it wont work...but you cant criticize them for trying unless you just like the way our corrupt Congress works currently

---

Would have liked to see the GOP pass Trump's Agenda in 2016-18 with House and Senate.


Seems to me that the ones not willing to work to fix something, be it the Border, Health Care, etc is the Freedom Caucus.

They seem to be AGAINST everything and for nothing.

---

In that period the GOP controlled all 3 branches of government.

They only passed a tax cut for the rich.

They did not cut back the size of the Federal government, pull out of the wasteful foreign wars, end mass 3rd world immigration, and even eliminate things like racist DEI in the military.

Are you saying the Freedom Caucus was responsible for all that failure?

I know you think the Freedom Caucus is the root of all evil in the GOP but they have very little power compared to the institutional party leadership and the Donor class.

---

We agree on the Ryan Congress of 2016, which I never said was Freedom Caucus fault. Waste of opportunity. Disgraceful and I called out Ryan the same as I am calling out Greene/Gaetz.

Both are signs of Party futility. The GOP cannot get out of its own way. Even if they disagree on Ukraine, Israel and other foreign aid. FIND SOMETHING OUT OF THE PLETHORA OF **** THAT IS WRONG AND FIX IT! Don't play these f-ing games and waste time. Ryan is just as bad, probably worse because he had the gavel, than Greene, different part of political spectrum but same issue. Distracted by what they don't like and not focusing on what they can fix. That is what I liked about Gingrich, he knew he needed to find solutions or be an asterick in history.

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power! MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.

---

What "damage" are they doing?

Johnson is still speaker.

The war funding you like for Israel and Ukraine is still getting passed.

Nothing much else is being done because non-MAGA republicans don't care about anything other than funding wars and corporate tax cuts.

The Dems are just waiting to re-take the House in the next election cycle.

Again I'm not sure what damage MTG and her small group are doing.

---

What damage?

First the Dems having the opportunity to either rescue or let go the Speaker gives them power they should not have as the minority party.

Second, weeks of discussion, political chips and time was wasted internally rather than moving forward a GOP platform. MTG and buddies (Gaetz included) killed time for the Dems to get closer to election as the minority party.

Third, the GOP majority is down to 1. The Freedom Caucus infighting has chased several out that could have been used to push a GOP agenda.

---

1. That point is immaterial...the Speaker staid in power regardless

2. The Congress has plenty of time to engage in discussion but that is what they are sent their to do...debate issues and policy.

3.. What exactly is the GOP platform and agenda? For a large part of the leadership it seems to be continuing to print money, more war overseas, and no conservative change at home.

This is exactly what the more MAGA types you hate are complaining about in Congress....nothing changes with the GOP leadership....they get in power and then spend money on proxy wars and try to sneak amnesty bills though the Congress.

You seem to think that any faction in Congress that arises to complain about this business as usual strategy are "trouble makers" and "damaging the GOP"

---

No, it just seems to be the MAGA-ites... How many Congresses functioned before 2016? The Motion to Vacate has been used once since 1910, over 100 years. With MAGA we have 2 in 6 months! Yeah, they are just like every other group. No radicals there.


Of course it is immaterial, you don't agree.

---

Seems like they are trying a new tactic out and seeing if they can sake things up in Congress from the usual back room-business as usual stuff.

Now maybe it wont work...but you cant criticize them for trying unless you just like the way our corrupt Congress works currently

---

Would have liked to see the GOP pass Trump's Agenda in 2016-18 with House and Senate.


Seems to me that the ones not willing to work to fix something, be it the Border, Health Care, etc is the Freedom Caucus.

They seem to be AGAINST everything and for nothing.

---

In that period the GOP controlled all 3 branches of government.

They only passed a tax cut for the rich.

They did not cut back the size of the Federal government, pull out of the wasteful foreign wars, end mass 3rd world immigration, and even eliminate things like racist DEI in the military.

Are you saying the Freedom Caucus was responsible for all that failure?

I know you think the Freedom Caucus is the root of all evil in the GOP but they have very little power compared to the institutional party leadership and the Donor class.

---

We agree on the Ryan Congress of 2016, which I never said was Freedom Caucus fault. Waste of opportunity. Disgraceful and I called out Ryan the same as I am calling out Greene/Gaetz.

Both are signs of Party futility. The GOP cannot get out of its own way. Even if they disagree on Ukraine, Israel and other foreign aid. FIND SOMETHING OUT OF THE PLETHORA OF **** THAT IS WRONG AND FIX IT! Don't play these f-ing games and waste time. Ryan is just as bad, probably worse because he had the gavel, than Greene,

---

I think the Freedom caucus has made that point that the Congress needs fundamental reform in how it does business or things will never change.

Its been the Freedom caucus who has advocated for opening up the process to let MORE Republicans be involved in legislation....they have been for ending pork and ending backroom deals.

They reason they have turned to these "games" as you say around vacating the speakership is because they are blocked at every turn by the party leadership who likes the system how it is.

Every rule reform they have proposed as been pretty logical and good.

[3) End Secret Deals Behind Closed Doors. House Rules require legislation be available for 72 hours before being considered on the floor. These commonsense, good government rules are easily waived, but it was previously considered a rare and significant departure from the norm. In May 2020, Democrats gave themselves "same day authority" (also known as "martial law") to get around these rules and force a vote on bills the same day they are introduced. Speaker Pelosi has kept this extraordinary power for over two years, using it to rush the passage of massive trillion-dollar spending deals so fast that no one can even read them. To end this reckless abuse, the next Republican Majority must change this requirement from 72 hours to 120 hours (5 full days) and require a vote of two-thirds of the House to waive this rule.

4) Institute a Ban on Earmarks. While both parties have opted to allow earmarks under the name "Community Funding Projects," the practice remains open for corruption, and it enables party leaders to coerce Members into supporting legislation they otherwise would oppose. Earmarks facilitate federal overreach by spending taxpayer-dollars on personal pet projects of lawmakers and lobbyists. Earmarks also extend Congress's power of spending beyond items genuinely connected to the nation's welfare. In practice, they are often used to buy votes and coerce support for bills that might otherwise not pass muster. Essentially, earmarks amount to taxpayer-financed bribery. There must be a strict ban on earmarks instituted in House Rules.]

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Looking for a copy of the Texas Republican Party platform. Where can I get it

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

Trying to find the Texas RPT platform. Have you read it?

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

The Republican Party Platform, 2020 - Ballotpedia

There you go.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

The Republican Party Platform, 2020 - Ballotpedia

There you go.

---

That is the National Republican platform from 2020. Do you have the RPT platform from 2024?

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

The Republican Party Platform, 2020 - Ballotpedia

There you go.

---

That is the National Republican platform from 2020. Do you have the RPT platform from 2024?

---

If I am not mistaken, they will develop, approve and introduce at the RNC Convention. This is the one in effect right now.

Osodecentx said:

---

Looking for a copy of the Texas Republican Party platform. Where can I get it

---

Paxton probably dropped off one at Young's First Baptit Church Houston when they were rallying the base and damning left wing liberals. Paxton delivered a hell fire speech from the pulpit that included all the highlights of the MAGA platform. Texas hasn't had a Republican Party since Bush.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

The Republican Party Platform, 2020 - Ballotpedia

There you go.

---

That is the National Republican platform from 2020. Do you have the RPT platform from 2024?

---

If I am not mistaken, they will develop, approve and introduce at the RNC Convention. This is the one in effect right now.

---

The Republican Party of TEXAS just had a convention & adopted a platform. That's what I'm looking for

Texas Republicans, not national GOP

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

The Republican Party Platform, 2020 - Ballotpedia

There you go.

---

That is the National Republican platform from 2020. Do you have the RPT platform from 2024?

---

If I am not mistaken, they will develop, approve and introduce at the RNC Convention. This is the one in effect right now.

---

The Republican Party of TEXAS just had a convention & adopted a platform. That's what I'm looking for

Texas Republicans, not national GOP

---

Sorry, in Florida...

FLBear5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

The Republican Party Platform, 2020 - Ballotpedia

There you go.

---

That is the National Republican platform from 2020. Do you have the RPT platform from 2024?

---

If I am not mistaken, they will develop, approve and introduce at the RNC Convention. This is the one in effect right now.

---

The Republican Party of TEXAS just had a convention & adopted a platform. That's what I'm looking for

Texas Republicans, not national GOP

---

Sorry, in Florida...

---

Not a problem

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Looking for a copy of the Texas Republican Party platform. Where can I get it

---

https://texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2022-RPT-Platform.pdf

Would much prefer it to be 4 or 5 pages rather than 45, and that is an argument had at every convention, but it always ends up being a tome. But it shows the amount of work and thought that goes into it. Lots of people, each of them nominated by their Senate Districts, lots of long meetings, etc......

the participation is fresh. I only recognize three names on the first page. Dr. Armstrong has been one of our RNC reps forever and is a very steady hand. Vergel Cruz is a fine young man with a future. Jack DuBose has been around for a good while, too. So there's lots of fresh blood, seasoned with some old hands. Always a healthy sign in political party.

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Well, as we expected, it boils down to that. That we do agree on that. We have a Platform, execute it.

---

---

Here it is, 2020 GOP Platform. Pick one that the whole GOP will get behind and push through...

JOBS

• Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
• Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
• Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
• Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
• 'Made in America' Tax Credits
• Expand Opportunity Zones
• Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

ERADICATE COVID-19

• Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
• Return to Normal in 2021
• Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
• Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA

• Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
• Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
• Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring *Back their Manufacturing to the United States
• No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
• Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

HEALTHCARE

• Cut Prescription Drug Prices
• Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
• Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
• End Surprise Billing
• Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
• Protect Social Security and Medicare
• Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

EDUCATION

• Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
• Teach American Exceptionalism

DRAIN THE SWAMP

• Pass Congressional Term Limits
• End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
• Expose Washington's Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
• Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

DEFEND OUR POLICE

• Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
• Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
• Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
• Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
• End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS

• Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
• Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
• Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
• End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
• Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
• Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE

• Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
• Build the World's Greatest Infrastructure System
• Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
• Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
• Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet's Oceans

AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY

• Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
• Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
• Maintain and Expand America's Unrivaled Military Strength
• Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
• Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES

• Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
• Protect unborn life through every means available
• Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
• Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights[url=https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7][7][/url]

"

---

That is a summary
Do you have the actual words?

---

I don't need to be picky, I know attorneys like that, but I am good with an idea. Pick one, show the GOP can come together and push it through...

---

I'd just like to see what the words say. Whiterock tells us that the Republican legislators are bound to translate the platform into law.

---

No, I did not tell anyone they were "bound" to translate the platform into law. I said they were nominated by their party to be election for the purpose of translating the platform into law.

Why do political parties exist?

That question came up a few years ago in a contested RPT Chairman race......"what is the purpose of the Republican Party of Texas?" Cindy Ashe said quickly...."to elect Republicans!" James Dickey countered "to enact the platform into law."

Reality is, it's both. You have to get Republicans elected if you are going to get the things Republicans believe in (the platform) enacted into law. And when Republicans get elected and then fail to act, or worse actually oppose efforts to get the platform planks enacted into law.....you can expect the Party faithful to be upset about it. You can expect party faithful to reward electeds who diligently work toward and actually accomplish platform agendas. And you can expect to see them work to unseat electeds who get in the way of the platform.

Moderates can get pretty arrogant when their party tries to hold them accountable for their actions/inactions......

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Looking for a copy of the Texas Republican Party platform. Where can I get it

---

https://texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2022-RPT-Platform.pdf

Would much prefer it to be 4 or 5 pages rather than 45, and that is an argument had at every convention, but it always ends up being a tome. But it shows the amount of work and thought that goes into it. Lots of people, each of them nominated by their Senate Districts, lots of long meetings, etc......

the participation is fresh. I only recognize three names on the first page. Dr. Armstrong has been one of our RNC reps forever and is a very steady hand. Vergel Cruz is a fine young man with a future. Jack DuBose has been around for a good while, too. So there's lots of fresh blood, seasoned with some old hands. Always a healthy sign in political party.

---

One of the things that Trump did well in 2020 was posting the Agenda, I posted it earlier, it was an easy to understand bulleted list of what he wanted to do. "Keep it Simple, Stupid", right?

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

look at the implicit premise of your measure of effectiveness: number of bills passed.

Is that really the only yardstick (or even the one that matters most)?
Doesn't a consistent voting record have value?
Is there no benefit to OPPOSING things in Congress?
is there no benefit to elected officials using bully pulpit to organize public sentiment?

She's a rabble rousing Freedom Caucus member seeking to force the GOP to be more attentive to the platform agenda. So was RDS. They had virtually identical voting records.

So you can criticize her eloquence and her choice of where to draw the battle lines. But she's hardly outside the mainstream with her views/votes. A good leaders can figure out ways to put her combatitiveness to good use. Democrats do it. Why can't we?

(hint: you say she "undermines the majority" yet it is the moderates who are largely responsible for MTG. If you would just vote for the platform agenda, there'd be no oxygen for the Freedom Caucus to exist.)

---

The problem I see is that the Speaker sets the Agenda.
The party Platform IS the agenda; the Speaker is supposed to execute a plan to enact the platform.
The Whip does what it takes to ensure that the Speaker gets the Votes.
If the whip is whipping the base rather than the moderates, that is a sign the Speaker is NOT working the platform. You don't have to whip the base to pass the platform. You have to whip moderates to pass the platform......
The Freedom Caucus and MTG working within the structure is fine, the Grandstanding playing the media to force their hand? No, that just empowers the Dems.
No, it empowers the platform agenda.

The biggest issue I have with the Freedom Caucus is they do not care about anything but their narrow view.
It's called "the platform." The reality of how the Govt runs, keeping the Nation operating or god forbid moving the Nation forward vs Russia, China and Iran is non-existent.
They were elected to enact the platform into law, not empower the other side to get its own platform enacted into law, or to protect things that are at odds with platform agendas.

The Freedom Caucus thinks it is the 94 Revolution and T-Party on Steroids.
Why shouldn't it be? We've got a frickin' disaster not because of a lack of compromise but because Democrats passed bad law!
What they fail to realize was that both those movements attacked Dem Administrations. TThe Freedom Caucus that will shut down the Govt and burn it down if it doesn't get its way and is attacking its own Party! .....to stop their own party from helping Democrats enact bad policy! Stopping bad stuff from getting enacted into law is a core job requirement of a Congresscritter. Democrats do a very good job of it against us. Why should we not return the favor?

She and her cronies don't work within the GOP system and are willing to attack the Speaker when THEY have power!
Why shouldn't a speaker who breaks promises to his/her caucus be attacked? Exactly what does it look like when the speaker whips the base too hard? Isn't the base allowed to bite back?
MTG and the Freedom Caucus is a dream come true for the Dems. They love her taking the knees out from under the Speaker and letting the Dems "save" him. She and her group are idiots that do more damage than good. Voting is one part of being a Congressperson.
Dems are scared of the FC. "if you're taking flack, you're over the target....." Remember that one?

---

You are just making an appeal to teamwork and civility, which do have a time and place, just not when a majority of Republicans are demanding better (more conservative) leadership.

---

You also keep referring to MTG as the Whip, she is not. I have no problem with the Whip doing their job, most of the time they operate behind the scenes. I can't think of a well known Whip since Gingrich.

You also keep referring to MTG and MAGA as the "base", we disagree. The whole MAGA/Gang of 8 are on the fringe, not the base. That is why Gaetz was only able to get those 8 votes, a quirky House rule (which will never get passed again) and the small number of GOP Majority is what allowed it to happen. You keep acting like it was "base" movement, it was not. It was 8 of over 279. That is not the base... MTG HAD LESS. A quirk of rule making that got passed is the only reason this small minority of the GOP has any voice at all. You are mistaken that quirk for the base. Without that rule, you hear NOTHING from this crowd but MTG's shrill *****ing and Gaetz's scheming.

---

Every member of the caucus will whip what they can. Some do it behind the scenes. Some for the cameras. Each method has its time and place. In that context, the FC exist almost exclusive as a bulwark AGAINST whipping by moderate Speakers, to push back and force more accommodation of platform objectives.

The vote total did not reflect what you presume. There are dozens of members who shared exactly MTG's views on the Speaker's actions. They just didn't want to have another protracted speaker fight. MTG, if you remember, stuck with McCarthy all the way to the end. She didn't do that because she agreed with McCarthy on issues. She did it because she had carved out a role for herself under McCarthy and didn't see a similar space available under a new speaker.

You keep avoiding the obvious - if you want the FC to go away, just keep putting platform agenda items up for votes and quit making compromises that hand Democrats their platform agenda at the expense of ours. I'm perfectly happy with a Congress that does nothing except shooting down every bill the Democrats propose. We'd be way better off than having all those expensive compromises we keep getting that gut the country in so many ways. That's what Dems do. Just put their platform agenda up for a vote. Why can't we do that?

---

You keep going to the "presume", "not what it looks like", etc... The bottomline is that there are too many factions only concerned with their slice of the pie.
It has always been so and always will be. It's easy to work with your own base. You know what they want and broadly agree with them. So if you find yourself whipping them....isn't that a sign something is wrong with the bill you're whipping them about?

At least at the GOP should find items THEY agree on and put together an Agenda. Hell, the Border that is a no brainer...

We do agree on your last point, they need to put the Agenda to a vote. That is where the strength of the majority can work.

---

We do agree on and put together an agenda. We do it every 2 years at Party Conventions = write a platform. We do it every 4 years at a National Convention. Weeks writing rules for the convention(s) before the first gavel falls. Months arguing about platform planks before the first gavel falls. And then, the platform is passed at a national convention, with strong influence from the Presidential nominee (who gets nearly every thing they want). So we do have an agenda. The only question is, will our elected officials execute on it. Far too often, they don't. Ergo the rise of the FC.

The FC exists solely due to broad dissatisfaction with GOP leadership. If GOP leadership is conservative enough, the FC will have no oxygen to survive.

---

Looking for a copy of the Texas Republican Party platform. Where can I get it

---

https://texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2022-RPT-Platform.pdf

Would much prefer it to be 4 or 5 pages rather than 45, and that is an argument had at every convention, but it always ends up being a tome. But it shows the amount of work and thought that goes into it. Lots of people, each of them nominated by their Senate Districts, lots of long meetings, etc......

the participation is fresh. I only recognize three names on the first page. Dr. Armstrong has been one of our RNC reps forever and is a very steady hand. Vergel Cruz is a fine young man with a future. Jack DuBose has been around for a good while, too. So there's lots of fresh blood, seasoned with some old hands. Always a healthy sign in political party.

---

One of the things that Trump did well in 2020 was posting the Agenda, I posted it earlier, it was an easy to understand bulleted list of what he wanted to do. "Keep it Simple, Stupid", right?

---

that bullet list you cited was started when I was on the SREC......exactly for the purposes you cited. So now we have a long and detailed document PLUS a short bullet list that could be put on a bi-fold handout. Something for the scholars, and something for the salesman. Nice balance.....