Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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KaiBear said:

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Mothra said:

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KaiBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Mafia Bear said:

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Mothra said:

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Meh. I am no fan of a proxy war with Russia and think the Biden administration did a hell of a lot to antagonize Putin, but this guy is a piece of **** little despot. There's so much blood on his hand over the years. And quite frankly, his initial statements, prove that this was nothing more than a landgrab buy an imperialistic little dictator.

I am not sure what Tucker's intentions were in interviewing him, but this did not make either look good. Putin came across as the dictator he is, and Tucker sullied what semblance of a reputation he had by interviewing him.

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Could not disagree more. That is a shocking take. The fact that you think Russia is imperialistic by wanting to protect itself against NATO advancement on its own border is Lindsey Graham-ish level. Here are some more balanced reflections:

Tucker Carlson Network: After The Vladimir Putin Interview

Tucker's immediate reaction to his hours-long interview with Vladimir Putin at the Kremlin. pic.twitter.com/Y1AaaURsC6

— Wojciech Pawelczyk (@WojPawelczyk) February 9, 2024

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The only shocking take is your own. It's really at nutjob level. You really have drunk the Kool-Aid.

I've been against our involvement in the war from the beginning, and have regularly criticized this incompetent admin for its bellicose talk on letting Ukraine join NATO. I've also said we should have offered the security assurances Russia was seeking.

But let's be clear about why Russia invaded. It wasn't merely because Putin thought Ukraine was a threat or would be a threat. It's because Putin - as he said during the interview - has imperialistic ambitions. As he said, Ukraine was once apart of mother Russia and he desired to have it apart of mother Russia again. Those were his own words. That is not ok, under any circumstance. He's got thousands of Ukrainians and Russians blood on his hands because of it.

Putin is a smart, calculating, steely cold blooded killer. We shouldn't be in a proxy war with Russia and I put most of the fault on the Biden admin for that but trying to make Putin a sympathetic figure is a terrible look. Conservatives should not be cozying up to despots.

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I expected this reaction from a lot of people, but not so much from you. Sounds like you watched the first 20 minutes and tuned out, am I right?

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Tucker is a Putin stooge.

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Hardly

Tucker is merely the most successful 'talking head' of all time.

Has become extremely wealthy playing to his ever increasing audience world wide.

The dork has more influence than any politician outside of the president.

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Perhaps, but...

...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

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I certainly suspect Putin is responsible, but we all don't know for a fact at this point.

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We will never know it as a fact. Nalvany's body is most likely gone. Only his mother is reported to have seen his bruised body, and she states she is being blackmailed by Russian authorities, who have advised her she can have his body only if she agrees to a secret funeral, and to not perform an autopsy (hmm, wonder why?). So we will never know for certain.

But the circumstantial evidence lays out a very strong case to any reasonable, non-rube. First, you have the Nalvany poisoning from a few years ago - something that seems to happen frequently to expats who don't toe the party line. Then when he returns to Russia, he is arrested on trumped-up charges. Next, he's convicted in secret, on a trial not open to the public of even more trumped up charges, including Nazism (despite the absence of evidence regarding same). Then he is transferred to a remote prison, where the videos recording the prisoners somehow malfunctioned (convenient, isn't it?). And then of course, a 40-something man in good health somehow dies in said Russian prison of natural causes. Of course, we can't verify that for sure because the Russians are hiding the body and won't release it (again, convenient isn't it).

Anyone with half a brain realizes what's going on here, just like they realize planes aren't magically falling to the ground, and oligarchs aren't magically dropping from tall buildings. Only the Russian shills like Sam dispute the plainly obvious.

I've found a good rule of thumb on these boards over the years is that if Sam believes something or argues for a certain position, the opposite is usually the truth or morally correct. His positions are more often than not morally bankrupt, unfortunately.

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Again, a good rule of thumb is to follow the evidence, not react hysterically to other posters and wed yourself to all kinds of assumptions. If that's morally bankrupt, I don't know what to tell you.

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It sounds good in principle. But of course, we know you don't really hold to it. I mean, you were pushing vaccine mandates, shutting down businesses, vaccinating kids, and now defending Putin's invasion when there is little if any evidence to support your positions on the subject. I realize that's what you'd like everyone to believe of course - that you're some smart, logical guy who is merely following the evidence. But the evidence actually proves you simply like to try and fit the evidence to your position, and not the other way around.

As I said, your positions over the years have been for the most part wrong, and morally bankrupt. It remains as true today as it was 20 years ago. You are typically on the wrong side of issues.

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You missed the point.

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No, I just disagreed with your charitable characterization

Realitybites said:

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Well, this is awkward. Not for me, but for those who jumped the the conclusion that he was assassinated by Putin without evidence or logic.

Ukraine Intelligence Chief Backs Russia and Contradicts Zelensky Claiming Alexei Navalny Died of 'Natural' Causes

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/02/26/ukraine-intelligence-chief-backs-russia-and-contradicts-zelensky-claiming-alexei-navalny-died-of-natural-causes/

---

Huh...who knew the leader of Ukrainian Defense Intelligence was a Russian shill?

Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

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What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

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Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

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We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

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Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

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The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

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Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

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I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

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So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

Realitybites said:

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Well, this is awkward. Not for me, but for those who jumped the the conclusion that he was assassinated by Putin without evidence or logic.

Ukraine Intelligence Chief Backs Russia and Contradicts Zelensky Claiming Alexei Navalny Died of 'Natural' Causes

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/02/26/ukraine-intelligence-chief-backs-russia-and-contradicts-zelensky-claiming-alexei-navalny-died-of-natural-causes/

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Let me ask you a few questions that may help facilitate a discussion on this topic, since you seem to believe that Putin being responsible for Navalany's death is somehow totally illogical and lacks evidentiary support, and that apparently this report by the Ukrainian intelligence chief once and for all settles that Navalny died of mere natural causes, without assistance from the Russians:

1) Do you believe that Navalny was justly imprisoned by Putin?

2) Do you believe the evidence that he was poisoned with a Russian nerve agent, or are you skeptical of same? In other words, do you believe like Sam that this was some story made up by Navalny, in a grand conspiracy with Germany and other Western powers, to paint Putin and Russia in a bad light?

3) Do you find it odd that the Russians wouldn't release his body to his family?

4) Do you find it odd that blood clot or stroke wasn't listed as the official cause of death on his death certificate?

5) Do you disbelieve the evidence from his lawyers that he was regularly beaten and tortured in prison?

6) Do you disbelieve the eyewitness account of his mother that when she was allowed to briefly view his body - it contained substantial bruising (which, coincidentally, can lead to blood clots)? Is it normal for 47 year old men in apparently good health to die of same?

7) Is it odd to you that the Russian cameras that record prisoners, and in fact recorded Nalvany walking in the same location where he died just the day before, suddenly malfunctioned on the day he died?

Now, here are some related questions about other incidents that will help me understand where you are coming from:

1) Do you believe that Russia was responsible for Prigozhin's death, or that his plane merely malfunctioned?

2) Do you believe that the long list of Russians who have been killed or died in murky circumstances after opposing, criticizing, or crossing Putin died of mere natural causes?

Take Sergei Yushenkov, for example, the leader of the anti-Kremlin party Liberal Russia, who was shot in front of his Moscow home.

Or Politkovskaya, one of Russia's most prominent journalists and a persistent chronicler of rights abuses in Chechnya, who was found shot dead in her apartment building, in an execution-style killing.

Or perhaps Boris Nemtsov, the reformist former regional governor and deputy prime minister who was one of Putin's most vocal opponents and found shot dead on a bridge near the Kremlin.

Or perhaps the half-dozen or so prominent Russian executives dying of apparent suicides or falls from great heights.

Do none of these have anything whatsoever to do with the Putin regime? Is it totally illogical and crazy to strongly suspect that Putin and/or the Russian govt. likely played a hand in some or all of these murders?

Or is that just bat **** crazy, and this is indeed some massive Western conspiracy to get innocent, sweet little old Putin and Russia?

I'll hang up and listen.

J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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Tucker is a douce and I'd like to punch him right, square in the puss!

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Didn't see the interview as I rarely watch any talking heads.

What did he say while with Putin that pissed you off ?

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Nothing in particular. What hell is he doing interview our second biggest adversary ? but he is a Trump boot licker

---

Obviously tens of millions of people throughout the world thought the interview was worthwhile.

When Tucker was a regular on Fox; my wife insisted on watching him. Although I agreed with most of his views ; Tuckers smugness and obvious fake laughter made me go into another room.

You seem to judge everyone and everything through a prism of anti Trump vitriol.

Might be a bit excessive.

---

If you and momma watch Fox, that tells me all I need to know. I don't judge anyone through Trump lens. I view them for actions not, works. They are NO different than CNBC. Chasing the money playing to there stupid sheep bases. Tucker is a mercenary , pimping $. Fox Business isn't much better. Maria dun lost her mind. Barney is terrible and biased. Now, the good Neil Cavuto is great.

---

Thought I made it clear I rarely watch Tucker ( or TV at all ).

Have no idea who Neil Cavuto is and don't really care .

Well, I'm sure the fate was sealed when they inexplicably shipped him to an Arctic Circle prison. 3 weeks in and he was dead. I admit dying of pneumonia would make sense.

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

Mothra said:

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Realitybites said:

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Well, this is awkward. Not for me, but for those who jumped the the conclusion that he was assassinated by Putin without evidence or logic.

Ukraine Intelligence Chief Backs Russia and Contradicts Zelensky Claiming Alexei Navalny Died of 'Natural' Causes

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/02/26/ukraine-intelligence-chief-backs-russia-and-contradicts-zelensky-claiming-alexei-navalny-died-of-natural-causes/

---

Let me ask you a few questions that may help facilitate a discussion on this topic, since you seem to believe that Putin being responsible for Navalany's death is somehow totally illogical and lacks evidentiary support, and that apparently this report by the Ukrainian intelligence chief once and for all settles that Navalny died of mere natural causes, without assistance from the Russians:

1) Do you believe that Navalny was justly imprisoned by Putin?

2) Do you believe the evidence that he was poisoned with a Russian nerve agent, or are you skeptical of same? In other words, do you believe like Sam that this was some story made up by Navalny, in a grand conspiracy with Germany and other Western powers, to paint Putin and Russia in a bad light?

3) Do you find it odd that the Russians wouldn't release his body to his family?

4) Do you find it odd that blood clot or stroke wasn't listed as the official cause of death on his death certificate?

5) Do you disbelieve the evidence from his lawyers that he was regularly beaten and tortured in prison?

6) Do you disbelieve the eyewitness account of his mother that when she was allowed to briefly view his body - it contained substantial bruising (which, coincidentally, can lead to blood clots)? Is it normal for 47 year old men in apparently good health to die of same?

7) Is it odd to you that the Russian cameras that record prisoners, and in fact recorded Nalvany walking in the same location where he died just the day before, suddenly malfunctioned on the day he died?

Now, here are some related questions about other incidents that will help me understand where you are coming from:

1) Do you believe that Russia was responsible for Prigozhin's death, or that his plane merely malfunctioned?

2) Do you believe that the long list of Russians who have been killed or died in murky circumstances after opposing, criticizing, or crossing Putin died of mere natural causes?

Take Sergei Yushenkov, for example, the leader of the anti-Kremlin party Liberal Russia, who was shot in front of his Moscow home.

Or Politkovskaya, one of Russia's most prominent journalists and a persistent chronicler of rights abuses in Chechnya, who was found shot dead in her apartment building, in an execution-style killing.

Or perhaps Boris Nemtsov, the reformist former regional governor and deputy prime minister who was one of Putin's most vocal opponents and found shot dead on a bridge near the Kremlin.

Or perhaps the half-dozen or so prominent Russian executives dying of apparent suicides or falls from great heights.

Do none of these have anything whatsoever to do with the Putin regime? Is it totally illogical and crazy to strongly suspect that Putin and/or the Russian govt. likely played a hand in some or all of these murders?

Or is that just bat **** crazy, and this is indeed some massive Western conspiracy to get innocent, sweet little old Putin and Russia?

I'll hang up and listen.

---

I'm old enough to remember Viktor Yushchenko too.

ATL Bear said:

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Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

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I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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Tucker is a douce and I'd like to punch him right, square in the puss!

---

Didn't see the interview as I rarely watch any talking heads.

What did he say while with Putin that pissed you off ?

---

Nothing in particular. What hell is he doing interview our second biggest adversary ? but he is a Trump boot licker

---

Obviously tens of millions of people throughout the world thought the interview was worthwhile.

When Tucker was a regular on Fox; my wife insisted on watching him. Although I agreed with most of his views ; Tuckers smugness and obvious fake laughter made me go into another room.

You seem to judge everyone and everything through a prism of anti Trump vitriol.

Might be a bit excessive.

---

If you and momma watch Fox, that tells me all I need to know. I don't judge anyone through Trump lens. I view them for actions not, works. They are NO different than CNBC. Chasing the money playing to there stupid sheep bases. Tucker is a mercenary , pimping $. Fox Business isn't much better. Maria dun lost her mind. Barney is terrible and biased. Now, the good Neil Cavuto is great.

---

Thought I made it clear I rarely watch Tucker ( or TV at all ).

Have no idea who Neil Cavuto is and don't really care .

---

Neil is on Fox business. He is really good.

J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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Tucker is a douce and I'd like to punch him right, square in the puss!

---

Didn't see the interview as I rarely watch any talking heads.

What did he say while with Putin that pissed you off ?

---

Nothing in particular. What hell is he doing interview our second biggest adversary ? but he is a Trump boot licker

---

Obviously tens of millions of people throughout the world thought the interview was worthwhile.

When Tucker was a regular on Fox; my wife insisted on watching him. Although I agreed with most of his views ; Tuckers smugness and obvious fake laughter made me go into another room.

You seem to judge everyone and everything through a prism of anti Trump vitriol.

Might be a bit excessive.

---

If you and momma watch Fox, that tells me all I need to know. I don't judge anyone through Trump lens. I view them for actions not, works. They are NO different than CNBC. Chasing the money playing to there stupid sheep bases. Tucker is a mercenary , pimping $. Fox Business isn't much better. Maria dun lost her mind. Barney is terrible and biased. Now, the good Neil Cavuto is great.

---

Thought I made it clear I rarely watch Tucker ( or TV at all ).

Have no idea who Neil Cavuto is and don't really care .

---

Neil is on Fox business. He is really good.

---

So you watch Fox ?

I thought you said if anyone watches Fox…..that's all you
Need to know ' ?

KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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Tucker is a douce and I'd like to punch him right, square in the puss!

---

Didn't see the interview as I rarely watch any talking heads.

What did he say while with Putin that pissed you off ?

---

Nothing in particular. What hell is he doing interview our second biggest adversary ? but he is a Trump boot licker

---

Obviously tens of millions of people throughout the world thought the interview was worthwhile.

When Tucker was a regular on Fox; my wife insisted on watching him. Although I agreed with most of his views ; Tuckers smugness and obvious fake laughter made me go into another room.

You seem to judge everyone and everything through a prism of anti Trump vitriol.

Might be a bit excessive.

---

If you and momma watch Fox, that tells me all I need to know. I don't judge anyone through Trump lens. I view them for actions not, works. They are NO different than CNBC. Chasing the money playing to there stupid sheep bases. Tucker is a mercenary , pimping $. Fox Business isn't much better. Maria dun lost her mind. Barney is terrible and biased. Now, the good Neil Cavuto is great.

---

Thought I made it clear I rarely watch Tucker ( or TV at all ).

Have no idea who Neil Cavuto is and don't really care .

---

Neil is on Fox business. He is really good.

---

So you watch Fox ?

I thought you said if anyone watches Fox…..that's all you
Need to know ' ?

---

Never said that. I like Brett Beir on Fox News. He's a straight up newsman. The rest of them are a bunch of shills for fat orange. As mentioned, I do like Neil Cavuto Business. He is all biz and not political. What I meant by that is when people post clips from people like Judge Twat and the rest of the lunes (Jesse, Gutfeild) just pathetic. Anyone posting anything from judge twat or the rest of these shills, tells me what I need to know

J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

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Tucker is a douce and I'd like to punch him right, square in the puss!

---

Didn't see the interview as I rarely watch any talking heads.

What did he say while with Putin that pissed you off ?

---

Nothing in particular. What hell is he doing interview our second biggest adversary ? but he is a Trump boot licker

---

Obviously tens of millions of people throughout the world thought the interview was worthwhile.

When Tucker was a regular on Fox; my wife insisted on watching him. Although I agreed with most of his views ; Tuckers smugness and obvious fake laughter made me go into another room.

You seem to judge everyone and everything through a prism of anti Trump vitriol.

Might be a bit excessive.

---

If you and momma watch Fox, that tells me all I need to know. I don't judge anyone through Trump lens. I view them for actions not, works. They are NO different than CNBC. Chasing the money playing to there stupid sheep bases. Tucker is a mercenary , pimping $. Fox Business isn't much better. Maria dun lost her mind. Barney is terrible and biased. Now, the good Neil Cavuto is great.

---

Thought I made it clear I rarely watch Tucker ( or TV at all ).

Have no idea who Neil Cavuto is and don't really care .

---

Neil is on Fox business. He is really good.

---

So you watch Fox ?

I thought you said if anyone watches Fox…..that's all you
Need to know ' ?

---

Never said that. I like Brett Beir on Fox News. He's a straight up newsman. The rest of them are a bunch of shills for fat orange. As mentioned, I do like Neil Cavuto Business. He is all biz and not political. What I meant by that is when people post clips from people like Judge Twat and the rest of the lunes (Jesse, Gutfeild) just pathetic. Anyone posting anything from judge twat or the rest of these shills, tells me what I need to know

---

Our children are all too old for either of their Fathers to resort to a term like judge twat.

Come on JR, you are a far better read than that.

KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

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KaiBear said:

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J.R. said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Tucker is a douce and I'd like to punch him right, square in the puss!

---

Didn't see the interview as I rarely watch any talking heads.

What did he say while with Putin that pissed you off ?

---

Nothing in particular. What hell is he doing interview our second biggest adversary ? but he is a Trump boot licker

---

Obviously tens of millions of people throughout the world thought the interview was worthwhile.

When Tucker was a regular on Fox; my wife insisted on watching him. Although I agreed with most of his views ; Tuckers smugness and obvious fake laughter made me go into another room.

You seem to judge everyone and everything through a prism of anti Trump vitriol.

Might be a bit excessive.

---

If you and momma watch Fox, that tells me all I need to know. I don't judge anyone through Trump lens. I view them for actions not, works. They are NO different than CNBC. Chasing the money playing to there stupid sheep bases. Tucker is a mercenary , pimping $. Fox Business isn't much better. Maria dun lost her mind. Barney is terrible and biased. Now, the good Neil Cavuto is great.

---

Thought I made it clear I rarely watch Tucker ( or TV at all ).

Have no idea who Neil Cavuto is and don't really care .

---

Neil is on Fox business. He is really good.

---

So you watch Fox ?

I thought you said if anyone watches Fox…..that's all you
Need to know ' ?

---

Never said that. I like Brett Beir on Fox News. He's a straight up newsman. The rest of them are a bunch of shills for fat orange. As mentioned, I do like Neil Cavuto Business. He is all biz and not political. What I meant by that is when people post clips from people like Judge Twat and the rest of the lunes (Jesse, Gutfeild) just pathetic. Anyone posting anything from judge twat or the rest of these shills, tells me what I need to know

---

Our children are all too old for either of their Fathers to resort to a term like judge twat.

Come on JR, you are a far better read than that.

---

yeah, that was a little tough. That women Judge Shapiro is a nut!

Haven't watched her for over 10 minutes in the last 2 years .

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

---

What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

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Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

---

We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

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Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

---

The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

---

Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

---

I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

---

So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

---

The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

---

I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

---

We don't base our policy on human rights, or you'd be here crusading for the likes of Khashoggi, Lira, and Assange. All of this noise about Navalny is just another form of propaganda to rile up the masses.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

---

I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

---

We don't base our policy on human rights, or you'd be here crusading for the likes of Khashoggi, Lira, and Assange. All of this noise about Navalny is just another form of propaganda to rile up the masses.

---

LOL Lira. No.

Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

---

I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

---

We don't base our policy on human rights, or you'd be here crusading for the likes of Khashoggi, Lira, and Assange. All of this noise about Navalny is just another form of propaganda to rile up the masses.

---

You're arguing against a position I've never taken. Of course we can still have relations with countries that don't share our values. But we don't have to defend their evil conduct or spread their propaganda, as you have on this thread.

To use your example, we can still have relations with Saudi Arabia without shilling for Saudia Arabia and defending the murder of Khashoggi.

This has not been one of your better showings.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

---

What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

---

Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

---

We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

---

Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

---

The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

---

Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

---

I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

---

So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

---

The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

---

Yes, to his mother - after 10 days and in a significant state of decomposition (again, convenient) - on the promise that he will be privately and quickly buried. Hmmm, wonder why?

Just to be clear, is it your position that Navalany did indeed die of natural causes, was justly imprisoned, and was never poisoned?

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

---

I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

---

We don't base our policy on human rights, or you'd be here crusading for the likes of Khashoggi, Lira, and Assange. All of this noise about Navalny is just another form of propaganda to rile up the masses.

---

You're arguing against a position I've never taken. Of course we can still have relations with countries that don't share our values. But we don't have to defend their evil conduct or spread their propaganda, as you have on this thread. To use your example, we can still have relations with Saudi Arabia without defending the murder of Khashoggi.

---

I'm not defending anything. I'm saying we don't know what happened. Why is that so hard to understand?

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

---

What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

---

Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

---

We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

---

Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

---

The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

---

Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

---

I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

---

So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

---

The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

---

Yes, to his mother - after 10 days and in a significant state of decomposition (again, convenient) - on the promise that he will be privately and quickly buried. Hmmm, wonder why?

Just to be clear, is it your position that Navalany did indeed die of natural causes, was justly imprisoned, and was never poisoned?

---

I don't know and neither do you.

ron.reagan said:

---

Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

---

We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

Mothra said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

---

We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

---

Just parroting their Furor!

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

---

What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

---

Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

---

We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

---

Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

---

The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

---

Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

---

I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

---

So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

---

The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

---

Yes, to his mother - after 10 days and in a significant state of decomposition (again, convenient) - on the promise that he will be privately and quickly buried. Hmmm, wonder why?

Just to be clear, is it your position that Navalany did indeed die of natural causes, was justly imprisoned, and was never poisoned?

---

I don't know and neither do you.

---

Oh, I agree. As I said, we will never know for sure. But we can speculate and ask questions, especially given the suspicious circumstances pointed out above, agreed? Or is that off limits as well, in your book?

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

---

We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

---

Just parroting their Furor!

---

If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

---

I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

---

We don't base our policy on human rights, or you'd be here crusading for the likes of Khashoggi, Lira, and Assange. All of this noise about Navalny is just another form of propaganda to rile up the masses.

---

You're arguing against a position I've never taken. Of course we can still have relations with countries that don't share our values. But we don't have to defend their evil conduct or spread their propaganda, as you have on this thread. To use your example, we can still have relations with Saudi Arabia without defending the murder of Khashoggi.

---

I'm not defending anything. I'm saying we don't know what happened. Why is that so hard to understand?

---

And yet, you're the same dude on this thread who has called into question his poisoning, suggesting it is some massive Western conspiracy, and has likewise attempted to impugn him through this actions of some of his associates (while nary a word about him being locked up following secret trials for his political beliefs). And of course, you're also the same guy who has argued the Russian invasion fits within your just war beliefs because Nazis.

But you're not defending anything. LOL.

Sam Lowry said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

---

We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

---

Just parroting their Furor!

---

If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.

---

Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

---

What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

---

Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

---

We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

---

Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

---

The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

---

Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

---

I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

---

So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

---

The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

---

Yes, to his mother - after 10 days and in a significant state of decomposition (again, convenient) - on the promise that he will be privately and quickly buried. Hmmm, wonder why?

Just to be clear, is it your position that Navalany did indeed die of natural causes, was justly imprisoned, and was never poisoned?

---

I don't know and neither do you.

---

Oh, I agree. As I said, we will never know for sure. But we can speculate and ask questions, especially given the suspicious circumstances pointed out above, agreed? Or is that off limits as well, in your book?

---

Speculation as in, "Only Russian shills and Putin-sucking rubes would dispute the plainly obvious?" That kind of speculation?

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Funny no one is asking the question of why he was imprisoned in the first place, and why a secret prison trial was conducted and added 19 years to his sentence. But hey, maybe Putin didn't have him poisoned. What a humanitarian!

---

I've referenced this elephant in the room on multiple occasions, and of course Sam, RealityBear and the like still haven't addressed it

I suspect they don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. They don't appear to have a problem with political prisoners and lack of Due Process - as long as it's Russia of course.

---

We don't base our policy on human rights, or you'd be here crusading for the likes of Khashoggi, Lira, and Assange. All of this noise about Navalny is just another form of propaganda to rile up the masses.

---

You're arguing against a position I've never taken. Of course we can still have relations with countries that don't share our values. But we don't have to defend their evil conduct or spread their propaganda, as you have on this thread. To use your example, we can still have relations with Saudi Arabia without defending the murder of Khashoggi.

---

I'm not defending anything. I'm saying we don't know what happened. Why is that so hard to understand?

---

And yet, you're the same dude on this thread who has called into question his poisoning, suggesting it is some massive Western conspiracy, and has likewise attempted to impugn him through this actions of some of his associates (while nary a word about him being locked up following secret trials for his political beliefs). And of course, you're also the same guy who has argued the Russian invasion fits within your just war beliefs because Nazis.

But you're not defending anything. LOL.

---

I meant I wasn't defending anything with respect to Navalny. Two separate issues, counselor.

So you can "speculate and ask questions," but I can't. Got it.

ron.reagan said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ron.reagan said:

---

Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

---

We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

---

Just parroting their Furor!

---

If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.

---

Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.

---

Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Quote:

---

Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

---

What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

---

Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

---

We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

---

Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

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The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

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Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

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I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

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So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

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The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

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Yes, to his mother - after 10 days and in a significant state of decomposition (again, convenient) - on the promise that he will be privately and quickly buried. Hmmm, wonder why?

Just to be clear, is it your position that Navalany did indeed die of natural causes, was justly imprisoned, and was never poisoned?

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I don't know and neither do you.

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Oh, I agree. As I said, we will never know for sure. But we can speculate and ask questions, especially given the suspicious circumstances pointed out above, agreed? Or is that off limits as well, in your book?

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Speculation as in, "Only Russian shills and Putin-sucking rubes would dispute the plainly obvious?" That kind of speculation?

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Let me clarify - you're not a Putin dick-sucking rube because of your position on Navalny but because of your parroting of Russian bull **** proaganda on the invasion and slaughter of the Ukrainians. That is what makes you a Putin dick-sucking rube.

Sam Lowry said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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J.R. said:

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Mothra said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

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We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

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Just parroting their Furor!

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If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.

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Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.

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Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.

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LOL speaking of evil Russian lies.

Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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Perhaps, but...
...he's still kind of a Putin stooge. Saw him on TV a couple of days ago actually insisting that Putin didn't kill Nalvany. To reach that conclusion already is incredible. We all know Putin did it.

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What evidence (besides "Russia! Russia! Russia!" and "Putin! Putin! Putin!" do you have that Putin ordered Navalny's assassination?

Probably vaccinated guy dies suddenly. There's a lot of that going on these days.

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Hmm, I don't know. Perhaps its that he already tried to kill him once by poisoning him?

I know, I know. Probably just a coincidence.

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We're taking the German government's word that Navalny was poisoned. When Russia requested the evidence, it was refused.

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Well, I'd take the word of Nalvany himself and a Western democracy over the Russian govt.'s word any day of the week, but that's the difference between us. You prefer the word of despots and dictators.

And of course, young people without serious health issues die all the time in Russian prisons, right? It's perfectly natural, as is hiding their bodies. Kind of like planes carrying Putin's political opponents fall from the sky and his opponents fall from windows. I am sure he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

---

The difference between us is that I prefer evidence. I don't think Putin has even said anything one way or another.

---

Again, sounds good in principle. But I suppose we are to ignore the circumstantial evidence then? Are we to ignore the numerous political prisoners and the deaths among those who have fallen out of favor with Putin? Is it really normal for that many people to fall from tall buildings? Is it normal for planes carrying Putin's enemies to fall out of the sky? Is it normal for Navalny to be exposed to a nerve agent, and then die a few short years later at the ripe old age of 40-something in a Russian prison where the camera stopped working? Is it normal for the Russians to hide his body, and insist on no autopsies?

I guess we could just check our brains at the door until we get direct evidence linking Putin to the crime. Is that what you would prefer? Has Putin earned your trust, Sam?

---

I predicted Prigozhin's death, so that was no surprise to me. Putin's responsibility for the others is questionable. See for example the biography by Philip Short. Even Litvinenko made different accusations before changing his story. I don't really have a preference as to what you believe. I'm just pointing out that it is a belief, not a fact.

---

So because you predicted his death, what? It was acceptable for Putin to cause his plane to "malfunction"?

You have a regime that regularly imprisons political opponents and a former member of the KGB running the country, invades its neighbors, forces prisoners to die in droves on Ukraine's front lines, commits human rights violations, uses Americans who travel or live there as pawns, and we are supposed to check our brains at the door when we see numerous suspicious deaths, all because we don't have direct evidence linking Putin to the crime? How about Nalvany tracking down the individuals who put the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent in his underwear, and spoke with his would-be assassin, who admitted Putin ordered the hit? How about the German toxicology reports regarding same? What about the fact that the Russians will not release Nalvany's body?

I am not asking you to convince me of anything. Instead, I am asking what you believe. Do none of the aforementioned issues raise red flags for you? Do you really take Putin's denials at face value?

---

The Russians have released Navalny's body. It's the Germans who haven't released the toxicology reports you speak of. I don't take any of it at face value.

---

Yes, to his mother - after 10 days and in a significant state of decomposition (again, convenient) - on the promise that he will be privately and quickly buried. Hmmm, wonder why?

Just to be clear, is it your position that Navalany did indeed die of natural causes, was justly imprisoned, and was never poisoned?

---

I don't know and neither do you.

---

Oh, I agree. As I said, we will never know for sure. But we can speculate and ask questions, especially given the suspicious circumstances pointed out above, agreed? Or is that off limits as well, in your book?

---

Speculation as in, "Only Russian shills and Putin-sucking rubes would dispute the plainly obvious?" That kind of speculation?

---

Let me clarify - you're not a Putin dick-sucking rube because of your position on Navalny but because of your parroting of Russian bull **** proaganda on the invasion and slaughter of the Ukrainians. That is what makes you a Putin dick-sucking rube.

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Bingo.

Sam Lowry said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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J.R. said:

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Mothra said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Trump supporter: “I think that people are ridiculous that they think Putin is such an enemy. He isn't doing anything. He just wants back what was his”

Reporter: “He invaded Ukraine, killing thousands of people”

Trump supporter: “That's fine with me.”pic.twitter.com/M3qBJykOdA

— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) February 28, 2024

---

We have some real buffoons in the party, that is for sure. There are several on this thread.

---

Just parroting their Furor!

---

If anyone is gripped by a furor these days, it would seem to be the anti-Russian zealots.

---

Conservatives now using the russiaphobia card as an excuse to murder hundreds of thousands of people. It really highlights the stupidity and hypocrisy is just a different flavor between our two parties.

---

Your not very conservative allies are murdering hundreds of thousands of people in this vicious proxy war. It's one of the most evil things the United States has ever done, and that's saying something.

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Sounds like a typical anti-US zealot