HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

Sorry, but the review is not abuse of discretion. Rather it is sufficiency of the evidence - something that is sorely lacking in this case as there is no evidence of a victim.

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal. As anti-MAGA as I am I have a hard time getting beyond the intention of the DA and the Judge in this particular case.

If anything was done the banks and Trump were benefiting from a Ponzi scheme but the banks were never declared a target.

---

I believe in NY, you have to put up the judgement amount before you can appeal. Will Jarred give him the money?

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

There's a correlation between drunk driving and deadly accidents.

Where's the correlation of potential wrongdoing in Trump's case?

Truckers to stop deliveries to New York City in protest of NY Judge Arthur Engoron’s ruling against former President Donald Trump:

“I’ll tell you what. You f-ck around and find out. We’re tired of motherf-cking leftists f-cking with Trump.”pic.twitter.com/r96AzIZlXQ

— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) February 17, 2024

Dave Ramsey Advises Trump To Use Snowball Method, Pay Off Smallest Legal Judgement First
FINANCE Feb 17, 2024 BabylonBee.com

NASHVILLE, TN During a live radio call-in this morning, financial wellness authority Dave Ramsey advised use of his patented "snowball method" to help former President Trump pay down his approximately $470 million in legal judgments.
"You see Donald, you start with the smallest legal judgment first. It's how you get the snowball rolling," said Ramsey. "Then once you get that paid off, you use the money you've been paying on that judgment to attack the next smallest judgment. Get that snowball rolling, baby."
According to sources at Ramsey Solutions, the snowball method has helped millions of people just like Trump get out from under mountains of debt. "First, you tackle that five-thousand-dollar credit card debt or that $95 million defamation settlement, whatever the smallest debt is," explained Financial Peace instructor Kenneth Waymon. "It's all about building momentum, so that snowball of debt payment grows as it rolls downhill. Everyone's tempted to go for the $355 million fraud settlement first, but you've got to be disciplined. You get that $95 million settlement paid off first -- then whoa! Watch your debt payment snowball!"
Trump reportedly decided to call the Dave Ramsey show after he failed to raise $400 million with his newest line of NFT collectibles. "That's okay, I'll call Dave. Dave is tremendous, really big league," said Trump as he dialed in. "Hello? Yes Dave, it's Donald again. So, I'm 77 years old and have $470,000,000 of legal debt. Yes, I've got a job, tremendous benefits, but it doesn't start until next January. What do you say to your favorite President?"
At publishing time, Trump had reportedly hung up on Ramsey after Ramsey yelled, "SELL THE STUPID PLANE!"

GrowlTowel said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

Sorry, but the review is not abuse of discretion. Rather it is sufficiency of the evidence - something that is sorely lacking in this case as there is no evidence of a victim.

---

Haven't followed it closely, but I'm pretty sure no victim is required. I agree with Frank Galvin that the judgment looks excessive, at least at first glance.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

There's a correlation between drunk driving and deadly accidents.

Where's the correlation of potential wrongdoing in Trump's case?

---

There is a relationship between fraud, accounting gimmicks and financial losses. There's lots of examples.

Kevin O’Leary Blasts Judge’s Ruling In Trump Civil Fraud Case: ‘It’s Un-American’ https://t.co/UcaHZNBijS pic.twitter.com/XkQYTGgnQ9

— Daily Wire News (@DailyWireNews) February 17, 2024

Quote:

---

"That fact that he was found guilty, you might as well find guilty every real estate developer on Earth," O'Leary told the Post. "I don't understand where someone got hurt … What developer doesn't ask for the highest price valued for any building they built?"

O'Leary said that the ruling was "not healthy for the country" and that he wants it to be appealed and overturned "because it's wrong for everybody that participates."

"If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can't do this to one another. It's not about Trump," he continued. "It's appalling. It's unjust. I would go as far to say it's un-American."

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

It also doesn't help when your CFO committed perjury on the witness stand.

If you can't beat them, bankrupt them with lawfare.

Cobretti said:

---

Kevin O’Leary Blasts Judge’s Ruling In Trump Civil Fraud Case: ‘It’s Un-American’ https://t.co/UcaHZNBijS pic.twitter.com/XkQYTGgnQ9

— Daily Wire News (@DailyWireNews) February 17, 2024

Quote:

---

"That fact that he was found guilty, you might as well find guilty every real estate developer on Earth," O'Leary told the Post. "I don't understand where someone got hurt … What developer doesn't ask for the highest price valued for any building they built?"

O'Leary said that the ruling was "not healthy for the country" and that he wants it to be appealed and overturned "because it's wrong for everybody that participates."

"If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can't do this to one another. It's not about Trump," he continued. "It's appalling. It's unjust. I would go as far to say it's un-American."

---

---

Criminalizing and prosecuting is one of the most American things there is.

If anyone wants to help out this billionaire

My wife @elenacardone started a $354,000,000 GoFundMe account to fund the UNJUST judgement against @realDonaldTrump @DonaldJTrumpJr @EricTrump and Trump Organization.

Give something & DEMONSTRATE that the people of America are standing together against unjust rulings like this…

— Grant Cardone (@GrantCardone) February 16, 2024

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

There's a correlation between drunk driving and deadly accidents.

Where's the correlation of potential wrongdoing in Trump's case?

---

There is a relationship between fraud, accounting gimmicks and financial losses. There's lots of examples.

---

None which transpired.

🚨President Donald Trump launched a line of sneakers

The collection includes high tops in gold with a "Never Surrender" design priced at $399, as well as red “T - Red Wave” and white “POTUS 45” laceless athletic shoes with a "T" and the number 45, priced at $199 each pic.twitter.com/NcQKFqTz1r

— Unlimited L's (@unlimited_ls) February 17, 2024

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

Cobretti said:

---

Kevin O’Leary Blasts Judge’s Ruling In Trump Civil Fraud Case: ‘It’s Un-American’ https://t.co/UcaHZNBijS pic.twitter.com/XkQYTGgnQ9

— Daily Wire News (@DailyWireNews) February 17, 2024

Quote:

---

"That fact that he was found guilty, you might as well find guilty every real estate developer on Earth," O'Leary told the Post. "I don't understand where someone got hurt … What developer doesn't ask for the highest price valued for any building they built?"

O'Leary said that the ruling was "not healthy for the country" and that he wants it to be appealed and overturned "because it's wrong for everybody that participates."

"If this judgment sticks. Every developer must be jailed. They must be found guilty. They must be put out of business. You can't do this to one another. It's not about Trump," he continued. "It's appalling. It's unjust. I would go as far to say it's un-American."

---

---

Criminalizing and prosecuting is one of the most American things there is.

---

freedom, apple pie, rock & roll.....and lawfare

Dave Ramsey Advises Trump To Use Snowball Method, Pay Off Smallest Legal Judgement First https://t.co/bRcYfTNhY0

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) February 17, 2024

boognish_bear said:

---

🚨President Donald Trump launched a line of sneakers

The collection includes high tops in gold with a "Never Surrender" design priced at $399, as well as red “T - Red Wave” and white “POTUS 45” laceless athletic shoes with a "T" and the number 45, priced at $199 each pic.twitter.com/NcQKFqTz1r

— Unlimited L's (@unlimited_ls) February 17, 2024

---

New Trumpman dropped https://t.co/5fH07gMtoS pic.twitter.com/vhBaGyBpKj

— Silent Memejority (@memejority) February 18, 2024

HuMcK said:

---

"The precedents being set will be used against democrats someday"

Good, fraud and criminality should not be tolerated, they should be ripped out root-and-stem. See how easy that was?

You are experiencing cognitive dissonance because you buy into the false notion that all politicians and parties are equally corrupt (a common coping mechanism on the right these days for supporting an unprecedented monster), and when reality pushes back on your delusions it causes you distress.

Speaking of precedents and politcized cases, the Clintons and Hunter Biden say hello. If you don't like your guy being prosecuted, maybe don't throw your lot in with criminals and thieves next time.

---

Who is the injured party?

Why does Letitia James pay taxes on a house worth $456,300 when the property sold 25 years ago for $550,000 and is estimated to be worth millions?

J.R. said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

---

Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

---

The "fraud" would have been going on for years. Why now? Why not 10 years ago? 20 years ago? Is it because they are Democrats and he is leading Biden in the polls? James ran on prosecuting Trump not reducing crime.

J.R. said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

---

Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

---

Would you lend money to Trump? Apparently Deutsche Bank and others performed their due diligence and found that Trump's accounting numbers were a fair reflection of value. The loans were made, the loans were paid off on time and made millions for the lenders.

Where's the fraud?

---

bull***** DB has severed all ties with that fraud due to Fraud.

---

Eloquent rebuttal, as usual.

midgett said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Frank Galvin said:

---

Not a Trump fan, but the punishment nowhere near the crime.

---

Nope. I have a friend (using that term cautiously) that is Club Fed for the exact same thing and it wasn't nearly to that level of fraud by Trumps. Feds don't eff around with this stuff. I've been in the banking business for a while. I know the rules.

---

The "fraud" would have been going on for years. Why now? Why not 10 years ago? 20 years ago? Is it because they are Democrats and he is leading Biden in the polls? James ran on prosecuting Trump not reducing crime.

---

Because Michael Cohen. Trump tried to hang Stormy Daniel's on Cohen but Cohen kept receipts.

Who ends up with the 460?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Is it true that our former president lied about the value of his real estate and even gave false measurement of his property to be allowed to borrow more?

---

Real estate is a slow moving market that is not very liquid. You only know the true value of a given property at a point in time when a buyer and seller agree on it and a transaction is concluded. It isn't like the bid ask on a share of stock. Outside of those data points everything else is an estimate.

perrynative said:

---

Who ends up with the 460?

---

the state of NY so they can pay to house illegals

Kathy Hochul tells NY businesses not to fear about Trump verdict: "Nothing to worry about" https://t.co/RHduDkjB5a pic.twitter.com/71eRseqg9K

— The Hill (@thehill) February 18, 2024

Ahhh. they'll never apply this law this way again.

Quote:

---

"I think that this is really an extraordinary unusual circumstance that the law-abiding and rule-following New Yorkers who are business people have nothing to worry about because they're very different than Donald Trump and his behavior," Hochul responded.

---

Cobretti said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

🚨President Donald Trump launched a line of sneakers

The collection includes high tops in gold with a "Never Surrender" design priced at $399, as well as red “T - Red Wave” and white “POTUS 45” laceless athletic shoes with a "T" and the number 45, priced at $199 each pic.twitter.com/NcQKFqTz1r

— Unlimited L's (@unlimited_ls) February 17, 2024

---

New Trumpman dropped https://t.co/5fH07gMtoS pic.twitter.com/vhBaGyBpKj

— Silent Memejority (@memejority) February 18, 2024

---

If you would’ve bought Trump sneakers for $400 a couple hours ago before they sold out you could now sell them for over $5,000 pic.twitter.com/OhYD2iDTs0

— greg (@greg16676935420) February 18, 2024

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

So have you ever watched the movie Minority Report starring Tom Cruise? This futuristic science fiction thriller has the Feds arresting people BEFORE they actually commit their crimes. Combine this with the Feds' January 6th response and we have 2024.

If you can't beat 'em, arrest 'em. Normally a FAIR and FREE election would clean up this abuse but I fear those days are gone.

The most expensive home in America was just listed for $295 million, a record in the US. It’s a 24,000 sq ft property in Florida.

Mar-a-Lago is 62,000 Sq Ft, almost 3x the size. Judge Engoron and Letitia James said it’s only worth $18 million.

Clearly this Judge and AG… pic.twitter.com/4O062zB6sP

— 🇺🇸Travis🇺🇸 (@Travis_in_Flint) February 17, 2024

Doc Holliday said:

---

The most expensive home in America was just listed for $295 million, a record in the US. It’s a 24,000 sq ft property in Florida.

Mar-a-Lago is 62,000 Sq Ft, almost 3x the size. Judge Engoron and Letitia James said it’s only worth $18 million.

Clearly this Judge and AG… pic.twitter.com/4O062zB6sP

— 🇺🇸Travis🇺🇸 (@Travis_in_Flint) February 17, 2024

---

its always been a bullsh case to punish Trump

You do not have to feel sorry or even sympathetic for Trump to see this award as obscene. The appeal will test the New York legal system to see if other judges can do what Judge Engoron found so difficult: set aside their feelings about Trump. https://t.co/W2sJ50xES0

— Jonathan Turley (@JonathanTurley) February 18, 2024

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

So have you ever watched the movie Minority Report starring Tom Cruise? This futuristic science fiction thriller has the Feds arresting people BEFORE they actually commit their crimes. Combine this with the Feds' January 6th response and we have 2024.

If you can't beat 'em, arrest 'em. Normally a FAIR and FREE election would clean up this abuse but I fear those days are gone.

---

Blagojevich says hello.

Jail is full of people who planned a crime. In this case, Trump DID the crime (lying on loan and tax documents)

But f the consequence for the Trump organization was $1,000, where's the deterrent?

It's not uncommon in sentencing for the A-Hole to get more time than the person who shows contrition.

The fraud is in the witch hunt vs Trump. All he did was find a lender willing to do business with him. Democrats finding media support to denigrate him and make it costlier. Hurt his pocket book and deflect attention away from the Dems and Biden. Sh&t show at its finest. Which is what our country does best

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

So have you ever watched the movie Minority Report starring Tom Cruise? This futuristic science fiction thriller has the Feds arresting people BEFORE they actually commit their crimes. Combine this with the Feds' January 6th response and we have 2024.

If you can't beat 'em, arrest 'em. Normally a FAIR and FREE election would clean up this abuse but I fear those days are gone.

---

Blagojevich says hello.

Jail is full of people who planned a crime. In this case, Trump DID the crime (lying on loan and tax documents)

But f the consequence for the Trump organization was $1,000, where's the deterrent?

It's not uncommon in sentencing for the A-Hole to get more time than the person who shows contrition.

---

Would agree with you except for the fact that the loans were paid back in full. With interest. No crime. Leticia James is on record from years ago on numerous occasions saying if she is elected, she is going to "GET TRUMP".

So if you stroll into a bank for a loan and say your house is worth $750,000 and you sell it for only $500,000, you think you have committed a crime? Should you get sued in Civil court and have to pay Ken Paxton and the state a $50 million fine? What if you sell your house for $1,000,000? Should you be sued by the state for $50 million for " lying" on your application?

I cannot fathom how in the world you TDSers find this acceptable.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"I suspect this will be overturned on Appeal"

Based on what, exactly? The standard of review for appealing a subjective award is abuse of discretion, and good luck proving that when the award came under the state's ask. Especially when the defendant is so openly unrepentant in any way.

The finding of fraud is not going away, period. A reduction of the award is theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely given the record the appeals court will have to adhere to.

---

What were the damages ?

The bank reps testified they made all their interest on time.
In fact they were willing to lend Trump even more money.

And bank's routinely conduct their own appraisal.
And the judges appraisal of Trumps property was ludicrous.

Was in west palm beach and boca ration just 10 days ago looking at rental property.

18 million appraisal for Trumps property is nuts. It would easily be 80-100 million or more. Prices are sky high in that area.

---

Based on this argument, drunks should never be stopped or arrested until the accident happens. Where is the damage?

---

So have you ever watched the movie Minority Report starring Tom Cruise? This futuristic science fiction thriller has the Feds arresting people BEFORE they actually commit their crimes. Combine this with the Feds' January 6th response and we have 2024.

If you can't beat 'em, arrest 'em. Normally a FAIR and FREE election would clean up this abuse but I fear those days are gone.

---

Blagojevich says hello.

Jail is full of people who planned a crime. In this case, Trump DID the crime (lying on loan and tax documents)

But f the consequence for the Trump organization was $1,000, where's the deterrent?

It's not uncommon in sentencing for the A-Hole to get more time than the person who shows contrition.

---

I cannot fathom how in the world you TDSers find this acceptable.

---

A. Because they want their ' team ' to win in November by any means fair or foul.

B. They can not conceive that such an obviously biased legal procedure could ever be applied to them or someone they care about.