Campus Protests

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boognish_bear
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In reply to Oldbear83 • 8:27p, 4/23/24
Oldbear83 said:
Serious question, is the pro-Hamas thing showing up at most normal colleges, or is it mostly just the 'elite' schools like the Ivy league and MIT?


So far the only coverage I've seen of this happening at a "normal school" is at the University of Minnesota.

Would not surprise me to see it happening at UT Austin… But not sure if we are calling that a "normal school"

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90sBear
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 8:32p, 4/23/24
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
90sBear said:
Go back to accusing people of lying since you don't want to talk about thread topic anymore.
I've asked you repeatedly - did I have sufficient cause for it, or no?

The fact that you won't answer says it all, and that your argument against me has failed. Go away.
Yes, yes, you are right (because you say so). Even though you don't cite any laws and say other people are lying when they do.

Toodles.
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boognish_bear
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8:33p, 4/23/24
Found a thread that lists different places it's happening.





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Oldbear83
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In reply to boognish_bear • 8:34p, 4/23/24
Well, that's not good.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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GrowlTowel
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8:43p, 4/23/24
These rallies for terror and death will not have the same effect as did the riots for overdoses in 2020.

Left is going to eat its own.
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Jack Bauer
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9:05p, 4/23/24
Never forget when the Penn State President had to begrudgingly explain the 1st amendment to college students



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Daveisabovereproach
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 9:15p, 4/23/24
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
Mothra said:
Frank Galvin said:
Also, this thread is not big on free speech. What is the difference between the First and Second Amendments?
Big difference between "free speech," as you call it, and the heckler's veto. The latter is what is taking place at Columbia, with pro-Hamas students harassing people for merely being Jewish. Yesterday, they formed a human chain to specifically prevent Jewish students from entering buildings.

Instead of "free speech," it is something more akin to this:



I am certain both types of speech are happening. Anyone preventing access to public buildings is disturbing the peace. Someone who threatens the person or property of another with intent to follow through is making a criminal threat. If someone lays hands on another, it is assault. Arrest and remove them, which it sounds like the school is doing.


Offensive speech like Death to America and war criminal or flag burning is protected. It has to be for the First Amendment to have any meaning.
Saying "death" to a country is not protected free speech. Maybe you should learn what the first amendment is first.
It is a political statement which gets the most protection under the First Amendment. On the other hand it is anti-American. The relevant precedent is Bradenburg v. Ohio where SCOTUS phrased the test this way:

Government cannot censor anti-government speech unless it is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action." College kids chanting is not specifc enough to say there is imminentn lawless action and is not likely to produce that action. It is most certanly free speech protected by the First Amendement just as burning American flags is.

Of course Columbia is not the government and it can do whatever it feels appropriate to student chanters.
"Death to America" and "Death to Israel" are chants that are widely known to be associated with actual physical violence to American and Israeli people, so it can not be viewed simply as political speech.
"Heil Hitler" is even more widely known to be speech associated with torturing and killing Jews. We protect the right to say that.

There has to be a danger the offensive speech will be acted on for it to be censored.

https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/4156_ri_1978.pdf
A Nazi salute is not a call for the death of a specific group. You know the difference here, you're just a shameless apologetic for the left.


I'll use a line that liberals love to use- "Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences". These colleges aren't legally obligated to allow their students to camp out and trash their campuses while heckling people and trying to intimidate Jewish students under the guise of "free speech" even if there's gray areas there
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BearN
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9:22p, 4/23/24
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BearN
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9:26p, 4/23/24

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Fre3dombear
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9:26p, 4/23/24
These are just democrat socialist Biden Obama rallies if they could get anyone to show up to listen to them read to them

A vote for a democrat is a vote for these people that somehow escaped abortive murder at the hands of their birthing person
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Fre3dombear
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In reply to Jack Bauer • 9:35p, 4/23/24
Jack Bauer said:
Never forget when the Penn State President had to begrudgingly explain the 1st amendment to college students





Interesting. An Indian woman that voted for Biden Obama. Bit unusual
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BearN
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9:42p, 4/23/24
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Jack Bauer
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In reply to BearN • 9:48p, 4/23/24
BearN said:
Not as offensive as "men cannot get pregnant" or "there are only 2 genders".
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ABC BEAR
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9:55p, 4/23/24
We have accumulated 5 pages of reactions to the results of our education system. The core issues in our education system, K-Doctorate are Tenure and Collective Bargaining. Both protect incompetent and subversive instructors from accountability and removal from the teaching profession.

Going forward, federal aid should be restricted for school districts and institutions of higher education that utilize either in their hiring or retention practices.
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boognish_bear
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10:04p, 4/23/24
Negotiate? What leverage do the protesters have to negotiate?

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Daveisabovereproach
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In reply to ABC BEAR • 10:06p, 4/23/24
ABC BEAR said:
We have accumulated 5 pages of reactions to the results of our education system. The core issues in our education system, K-Doctorate are Tenure and Collective Bargaining. Both protect incompetent and subversive instructors from accountability and removal from the teaching profession.

Going forward, federal aid should be restricted for school districts and institutions of higher education that utilize either in their hiring or retention practices.



Those are issues with our higher education system, but our education system is screwed up from elementary school on up. Somewhat related, but I know several elementary school teachers, and of the 10 or so that I know all but maybe two quit after four years. One friend just told me that he is declining to renew his contract next year without having anything lined up. Told me that he just couldn't take another year of it for sanity sake
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Redbrickbear
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11:11p, 4/23/24
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boognish_bear
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11:31p, 4/23/24
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The_barBEARian
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In reply to GrowlTowel • 11:32p, 4/23/24
GrowlTowel said:
These rallies for terror and death will not have the same effect as did the riots for overdoses in 2020.

Left is going to eat its own.


Yep.

The monster is turning on it's creator.

I'm eating popcorn and enjoying the spectacle.

For once the America First/MAGA crowd aren't the ones being curb stomped by both groups.
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boognish_bear
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12:33a, 4/24/24
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Oldbear83
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6:23a, 4/24/24
Wow. Eye-opening and nausea-inducing at the same time.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
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boognish_bear
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8:17a, 4/24/24
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BusyTarpDuster2017
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In reply to 90sBear • 8:53a, 4/24/24
90sBear said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
90sBear said:
Go back to accusing people of lying since you don't want to talk about thread topic anymore.
I've asked you repeatedly - did I have sufficient cause for it, or no?

The fact that you won't answer says it all, and that your argument against me has failed. Go away.
Yes, yes, you are right (because you say so). Even though you don't cite any laws and say other people are lying when they do.

Toodles.
Yes, yes, I'm SO wrong, that you are completely unable to argue why.

"Toodles" is exactly what you said when you argued with me for 2 pages about absolute vs. relative truth and later realized you had been proven wrong.
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Frank Galvin
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 9:19a, 4/24/24
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin, are you a lawyer or in law school?

If I wouldn't do well in law school, then God help me.
If you are a lawyer or in law school, then God help us all.
I'm a semi-retired lawyer.

I graduated 4th in my class of 270 at SMU in 1991. Law Review editor, runner-up in the school wide moot court competition.

I have succesfully argued in the Texas Supreme Court (several times), the United States Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals (several times), on brief in The U.S. Supreme Court, in many Texas Courts of Appeals, every U.S. district court in Texas and probably 20 more around the country. I lost my share of arguments also but companies pay me $750 an hour based on my knowledge of how the law works and my ability to articulate it.

Criminal law iand constitutional law are not my specialties although I did get the high grades in my law school basic Consittuional law class and my Constittuional Criminal Procedure class. As noted though, that was a long time ago.

I see a lot of people ttelling me I must be wrong but I don't see anyone other than the poster who posted the overthrow statute say why I am wrong or post any actual support for their argument. It comes down to this. The First Amendment protects our most cherished rights. There is an exceedingly high bar before the government can restrain or punish speech. Offenisive as it may be, I have not seen any reporting of student speech that meets that very high bar.
Frankly, I don't believe you. Not at all. You actually wrote this sentence - "terrorist threats are the only ones that are ilegal". An intelligent person just would not let that leave their keyboard, let alone double down on it later.

You also have some of the dumbest takes on this forum.

So if you ARE telling the truth, then God help us all even more.
The truth is verifiable. Read the statutes that deal with threats. To be criminal the treat has to be for imminent danger.

I quoted the statutes for you. I can't do anymore than that. You are so typical of society today. Unwilling to lok at the facts becuase you are certain, based on nothing but your uninformed opinion, that you are correct.
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Frank Galvin
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9:25a, 4/24/24
This thread is really unreal.

Student protestors are mad at Biden's policy of supporting Israel. Board take: this is another example of Biden being too liberal.

School's arrest protestors. Board take: schools are coddlng woke students.

Layer onto this the fact that the protestors represent a tiny percentage of students attending college. And the preferred answer seems to be make sure we deport anyone who voices offensive ideas to make sure we are facist authoritans like Biden.

A complete disconnect from logic and facts.
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KaiBear
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 9:29a, 4/24/24
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin, are you a lawyer or in law school?

If I wouldn't do well in law school, then God help me.
If you are a lawyer or in law school, then God help us all.
I'm a semi-retired lawyer.

I graduated 4th in my class of 270 at SMU in 1991. Law Review editor, runner-up in the school wide moot court competition.

I have succesfully argued in the Texas Supreme Court (several times), the United States Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals (several times), on brief in The U.S. Supreme Court, in many Texas Courts of Appeals, every U.S. district court in Texas and probably 20 more around the country. I lost my share of arguments also but companies pay me $750 an hour based on my knowledge of how the law works and my ability to articulate it.

Criminal law iand constitutional law are not my specialties although I did get the high grades in my law school basic Consittuional law class and my Constittuional Criminal Procedure class. As noted though, that was a long time ago.

I see a lot of people ttelling me I must be wrong but I don't see anyone other than the poster who posted the overthrow statute say why I am wrong or post any actual support for their argument. It comes down to this. The First Amendment protects our most cherished rights. There is an exceedingly high bar before the government can restrain or punish speech. Offenisive as it may be, I have not seen any reporting of student speech that meets that very high bar.


Excellent resume.

Life well spent.
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J.R.
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9:40a, 4/24/24
to quote the great Jesse Pinkman...."This is ****ed up , yo!
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GrowlTowel
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 9:54a, 4/24/24
Frank Galvin said:
This thread is really unreal.

Student protestors are mad at Biden's policy of supporting Israel. [No, they are mad that Jews exist] Board take: this is another example of Biden being too liberal. [Yes, because he refuses to call a freak, a freak just like every other liberal. If these kids were flying the Confederate Flag and seeking an end to DEI programs, every journalist and politician would be shoving microphones into the faces of conservatives demanding that he/she condemn the protestors. Biden does not want to lose the terrorist vote and, as such, is sidestepping the issue]

School's arrest [a few] protestors. Board take: schools are coddlng woke students. [Allowing encampments and negotiating with students about anything is by definition, coddling]

Layer onto this the fact that the protestors represent a tiny percentage of students attending college. And the preferred answer seems to be make sure we deport anyone who voices offensive ideas to make sure we are facist authoritans like Biden. [If you are an immigrant and your position is Death to America, then it is reasonable to discuss deportation]

A complete disconnect from logic and facts. [Classic mirror time]
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90sBear
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In reply to BusyTarpDuster2017 • 10:23a, 4/24/24
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
90sBear said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
90sBear said:
Go back to accusing people of lying since you don't want to talk about thread topic anymore.
I've asked you repeatedly - did I have sufficient cause for it, or no?

The fact that you won't answer says it all, and that your argument against me has failed. Go away.
Yes, yes, you are right (because you say so). Even though you don't cite any laws and say other people are lying when they do.

Toodles.
Yes, yes, I'm SO wrong, that you are completely unable to argue why.

"Toodles" is exactly what you said when you argued with me for 2 pages about absolute vs. relative truth and later realized you had been proven wrong.
Yeah you quoted logic in that thread about as well as you quoted law in this one. But I remember you won! (Because you said so).
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ShooterTX
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In reply to midgett • 10:36a, 4/24/24
midgett said:
Walking through the Capitol building is 6 years in prison.

Protesting and screaming "Death to America ", burning our flag and pushing for the elimination of Jews is acceptable.

I say protesting to Death to America is immediate grounds for deportation even if you were born here.
First you need to revoke citizenship, then deport and permanently ban them from entering the country.
ShooterTX
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Jack Bauer
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10:38a, 4/24/24
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ShooterTX
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In reply to Limited IQ Redneck in PU • 10:40a, 4/24/24
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Amazing the "silence is violence" crowd tolerates anti-Jewish rhetoric, calls for violence, and genocide..
Anyone on American soil chanting Intifada or Death to America should immediately given a one way plane ticket to Gaza or Iran. This includes American citizens. Don't threaten Americans and expect zero consequences. Most of the cowards are wearing masks.
I could live with that. Or stop letting them enjoy all the freedom and perks we get here. No use of roads, no police protection, no welfare, no use schools etc
No. Deport them immediately.

I don't believe we should give comfort & protection to our enemies. We shouldn't allow people who want to destroy us, to live within our borders and claim citizenship.
ShooterTX
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ShooterTX
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 10:45a, 4/24/24
Frank Galvin said:
Mothra said:
Frank Galvin said:
Also, this thread is not big on free speech. What is the difference between the First and Second Amendments?
Big difference between "free speech," as you call it, and the heckler's veto. The latter is what is taking place at Columbia, with pro-Hamas students harassing people for merely being Jewish. Yesterday, they formed a human chain to specifically prevent Jewish students from entering buildings.

Instead of "free speech," it is something more akin to this:



I am certain both types of speech are happening. Anyone preventing access to public buildings is disturbing the peace. Someone who threatens the person or property of another with intent to follow through is making a criminal threat. If someone lays hands on another, it is assault. Arrest and remove them, which it sounds like the school is doing.


Offensive speech like Death to America and war criminal or flag burning is protected. It has to be for the First Amendment to have any meaning.

"Death to America" is literally a call to violence. That is specifically NOT covered by the 1st Ammendment.

If they were calling for a revolution through the electoral process... THAT would be protected.
ShooterTX
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ShooterTX
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 11:16a, 4/24/24
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
Malbec said:
Frank Galvin said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Frank Galvin said:
Also, this thread is not big on free speech. What is the difference between the First and Second Amendments?
You leftists really do live in your own reality, don't you?


No, free speech is pretty basic to American reality.
If HAMAS is a designated terrorist organization by the U.S. (and since 1997), and protestors say, "We are HAMAS!" while chanting "Death to America!," would that be simply 'free speech'?
By that I think you mean could the government succesfully prosecute the students for making a terrisitc threat? Doubtful. "Death to America" is not imminent action and the students are not going to cause imminent action.

If they said burn the federal courthouse that more specfic statement is going to be more actionable. If they said burn the federal courthouse while stockpiling kerosene or publishing diagrams, defintitely yes.

Again the First Amendment exists to protect offensive political speech.
"Death to America" is not imminent action and the students are not going to cause imminent action."

You don't know that, nor can you expect anyone else to downplay the threat to your level. And it doesn't even have to be "imminent" in order to be considered a violent threat.

Verbatim from the Texas terroristic threat statute:

"threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person … with intent to place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury."
Speech doesn't have to qualify as a "terroristic threat" under Texas statute in order to be considered unprotected.
The presumption is all speech is protected. It is removed from protection for specifc reasons: libel/slander; public safety; national security; safety and liberty of others.

Why should we remove Death to America from the protections of the First Amendment. What is the legal rationale?
You really can't see why "Death to America" is a call to violence? Seriously?

I bet if we replaced America with say "Blacks" or "Democrats" or "the DNC"... you would suddenly find a reason to arrest people.
ShooterTX
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Frank Galvin
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In reply to ShooterTX • 11:24a, 4/24/24
ShooterTX said:
Frank Galvin said:
Mothra said:
Frank Galvin said:
Also, this thread is not big on free speech. What is the difference between the First and Second Amendments?
Big difference between "free speech," as you call it, and the heckler's veto. The latter is what is taking place at Columbia, with pro-Hamas students harassing people for merely being Jewish. Yesterday, they formed a human chain to specifically prevent Jewish students from entering buildings.

Instead of "free speech," it is something more akin to this:



I am certain both types of speech are happening. Anyone preventing access to public buildings is disturbing the peace. Someone who threatens the person or property of another with intent to follow through is making a criminal threat. If someone lays hands on another, it is assault. Arrest and remove them, which it sounds like the school is doing.


Offensive speech like Death to America and war criminal or flag burning is protected. It has to be for the First Amendment to have any meaning.

"Death to America" is literally a call to violence. That is specifically NOT covered by the 1st Ammendment.

If they were calling for a revolution through the electoral process... THAT would be protected.
Its not specific enough. It could include violence but it doesn't have to.

But even if you are right, you are still wrong. Again the Supreme Court in Brandenburg v. Ohio said that to fall outside of First Amendment protection the threat has to be for imminent harm that has a chance of happening. I am not making this up. The Supreme Court is the arbitier and I am just telling you what the Court said.

Can you cite a legal authority for your position that a threat that does not involve imminent harm loses First Amendment protection?
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