Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

You tart!

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy.

Benedictine is orthodox and the speech was probably better received there then a similar one at Baylor according to some that know the Baptist better than me. But, even in an Orthodox University some of it hit nerves.

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that. If you have ever gone to a Mother's Day service at a convent, it is a deeply moving and contemplating service. Got to go to one in Amarillo when working out there. I can see how that would not go over well. So, like all places. Some of the "conservative" is good, some not so much if it hits
the wrong nerve.

---

Whether a nun, a homemaker, a teacher a banker….

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,

For as in one body we have many members,[e] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads,[f] with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy.

Benedictine is orthodox and the speech was probably better received there then a similar one at Baylor according to some that know the Baptist better than me. But, even in an Orthodox University some of it hit nerves.

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that. If you have ever gone to a Mother's Day service at a convent, it is a deeply moving and contemplating service. Got to go to one in Amarillo when working out there. I can see how that would not go over well. So, like all places. Some of the "conservative" is good, some not so much if it hits
the wrong nerve.

---

Whether a nun, a homemaker, a teacher a banker….

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,

For as in one body we have many members,[e] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads,[f] with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

---

I am not trying to debate it, I am good with my believes and you having yours. No issues. I am just telling you what happened and some context from a Catholic point of view.

There is a move toward the conservative in the Church, but Rome is very liberal right now under Francis. He was very successful in South America, but he is very liberal.

2 Popes is a very good movie about him and Ratzinger, it would give you a good understanding of the man and where he came from. It is an easy watch, stars Anthony Hopkins, well done. If interested in Francis and where he comes and what he is about.

FLBear5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy.

Benedictine is orthodox and the speech was probably better received there then a similar one at Baylor according to some that know the Baptist better than me. But, even in an Orthodox University some of it hit nerves.

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that. If you have ever gone to a Mother's Day service at a convent, it is a deeply moving and contemplating service. Got to go to one in Amarillo when working out there. I can see how that would not go over well. So, like all places. Some of the "conservative" is good, some not so much if it hits
the wrong nerve.

---

Whether a nun, a homemaker, a teacher a banker….

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,

For as in one body we have many members,[e] and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads,[f] with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

---

I am not trying to debate it, I am good with my believes and you having yours. No issues. I am just telling you what happened and some context from a Catholic point of view.

There is a move toward the conservative in the Church, but Rome is very liberal right now under Francis. He was very successful in South America, but he is very liberal.

2 Popes is a very good movie about him and Ratzinger, it would give you a good understanding of the man and where he came from. It is an easy watch, stars Anthony Hopkins, well done. If interested in Francis and where he comes and what he is about.

---

I didn't want you to think I was arguing the point. I can certainly see how Mother's Day messages could be hard on nuns. My point is just as a reminder that wherever we are we should do it as for the Lord. Part of our witness is how we do our roles in life mom/nun/dad/priest whatever

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

There seems to be some inter-Catholic baseball going on.

The College used to be more liberal but has now become more Conservative.

And the Nuns (much like most of the nuns in post-1960s ) are pretty liberal and pretty old.

The first thing I'll note is that they specifically mention their loyalty to Vatican II. These are boomer nuns, they were young swinging sisters in the 60s when Vatican II went down. They are basically holy hippies.

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

This article from a few weeks back tells the story (in its slanted way). The old Catholic priests and nuns are mostly libs, the much smaller generation of priests who will eventually replace them is distinctly right wing.https://t.co/fUeMc5ZkcU

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

It would seem that the future of Roman Catholicism..at least over the next few generations...is more traditionalism/Latin Mass style Catholic identity

[According to a 2021 survey, 28% of U.S. Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week have also attended a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/586643/traditional-catholic-parishes-grow-even-as-us-catholicism-declines/

[Traditional Catholic parishes run by one society of priests are growing in the United States, defying the trend of decline in the broader American church over previous decades.

The fraternity has witnessed a steady increase in the number of priests in the society since its founding in 1988, and ordinations continue to grow. Between 2007 and 2012, an average of 10 seminarians were ordained priests each year. Between 2013 and 2018, that number has jumped to an average of almost 15 per year. Annual reports provided to the Washington Examiner by the society show the number of the fraternity's personal parishes has tripled from 11 to 33 in the U.S. since 2008. A personal parish is a Catholic community recognized by bishops based on a special feature of the group, such as commitment to celebrating the Latin liturgy, rather than geographical location.]

Traditionalist Catholics also tend to be younger than regular parish Catholics

[The median age of Catholic adults in the U.S. is 49 years old four years older than it was in 2007.]

[According to a 2019-2020 survey, the average age of respondents to the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) was 27.4 years old. The survey also found that 57% of respondents were male, which is eight percentage points higher than the male participation in the USA population]

muddybrazos said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

There seems to be some inter-Catholic baseball going on.

The College used to be more liberal but has now become more Conservative.

And the Nuns (much like most of the nuns in post-1960s ) are pretty liberal and pretty old.

The first thing I'll note is that they specifically mention their loyalty to Vatican II. These are boomer nuns, they were young swinging sisters in the 60s when Vatican II went down. They are basically holy hippies.

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

This article from a few weeks back tells the story (in its slanted way). The old Catholic priests and nuns are mostly libs, the much smaller generation of priests who will eventually replace them is distinctly right wing.https://t.co/fUeMc5ZkcU

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

i was with you right up until "mainline Protestantism". I'm under the impression that the mainline is the more traditional and the smoke machine, all love-no repentance is not the mainline but a dangerous and growing offshoot.

Semantics and labels is where we disagree but, that's nothing

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

There seems to be some inter-Catholic baseball going on.

The College used to be more liberal but has now become more Conservative.

And the Nuns (much like most of the nuns in post-1960s ) are pretty liberal and pretty old.

The first thing I'll note is that they specifically mention their loyalty to Vatican II. These are boomer nuns, they were young swinging sisters in the 60s when Vatican II went down. They are basically holy hippies.

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

This article from a few weeks back tells the story (in its slanted way). The old Catholic priests and nuns are mostly libs, the much smaller generation of priests who will eventually replace them is distinctly right wing.https://t.co/fUeMc5ZkcU

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

i was with you right up until "mainline Protestantism". I'm under the impression that the mainline is the more traditional and the smoke machine, all love-no repentance is not the mainline but a dangerous and growing offshoot.

---

"Mainline" refers to the Protestant Churches in the USA that are now far more theologically liberal than are the more "low church" like the SBC, Evangelical Bible Churches, Pentecostals, etc.

The Mainline are: [In 2009, George Barna published a list of the churches that are commonly considered "mainline": American Baptist Churches in the USA, the Episcopal Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the United Methodist Church. Other sources add the United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant

All the mainline also now have break off more conversative Churches as well... Anglican Church in North America broke off from the Episcopal Church. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod broke from from the ELC, the new Global Methodist Church broke off from the United Methodist Church. Presbyterian Church in America broke off from the Presbyterian Church-USA, etc.

Redbrickbear said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

There seems to be some inter-Catholic baseball going on.

The College used to be more liberal but has now become more Conservative.

And the Nuns (much like most of the nuns in post-1960s ) are pretty liberal and pretty old.

The first thing I'll note is that they specifically mention their loyalty to Vatican II. These are boomer nuns, they were young swinging sisters in the 60s when Vatican II went down. They are basically holy hippies.

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

This article from a few weeks back tells the story (in its slanted way). The old Catholic priests and nuns are mostly libs, the much smaller generation of priests who will eventually replace them is distinctly right wing.https://t.co/fUeMc5ZkcU

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

i was with you right up until "mainline Protestantism". I'm under the impression that the mainline is the more traditional and the smoke machine, all love-no repentance is not the mainline but a dangerous and growing offshoot.

---

"Mainline" refers to the Protestant Churches in the USA that are now far more theologically liberal than are the more "low church" like the SBC, Evangelical Bible Churches, Pentecostals, etc.

The Mainline are: [In 2009, George Barna published a list of the churches that are commonly considered "mainline": American Baptist Churches in the USA, the Episcopal Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the United Methodist Church. Other sources add the United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant

All the mainline also now have break off more conversative Churches as well... Anglican Church in North America broke off from the Episcopal Church. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod broke from from the ELC, the new Global Methodist Church broke off from the United Methodist Church. Presbyterian Church in America broke off from the Presbyterian Church-USA, etc.

---

This is my church and what I was referring to. It makes me sad to see what has become of the Episcopal church which we sued and lost our 300 year old church property to. It's not even really a church but more like a social justice club. The new Episcopal bishop here is a woman who started the BLM chapter of Denver. It would be closer to the Unitiarian universalists than to Anglicanism.

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

There seems to be some inter-Catholic baseball going on.

The College used to be more liberal but has now become more Conservative.

And the Nuns (much like most of the nuns in post-1960s ) are pretty liberal and pretty old.

The first thing I'll note is that they specifically mention their loyalty to Vatican II. These are boomer nuns, they were young swinging sisters in the 60s when Vatican II went down. They are basically holy hippies.

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

This article from a few weeks back tells the story (in its slanted way). The old Catholic priests and nuns are mostly libs, the much smaller generation of priests who will eventually replace them is distinctly right wing.https://t.co/fUeMc5ZkcU

— J. Respectful Clark (@JReubenCIark) May 18, 2024

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

i was with you right up until "mainline Protestantism". I'm under the impression that the mainline is the more traditional and the smoke machine, all love-no repentance is not the mainline but a dangerous and growing offshoot.

---

"Mainline" refers to the Protestant Churches in the USA that are now far more theologically liberal than are the more "low church" like the SBC, Evangelical Bible Churches, Pentecostals, etc.

The Mainline are: [In 2009, George Barna published a list of the churches that are commonly considered "mainline": American Baptist Churches in the USA, the Episcopal Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (USA), and the United Methodist Church. Other sources add the United Church of Christ, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant

All the mainline also now have break off more conversative Churches as well... Anglican Church in North America broke off from the Episcopal Church. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod broke from from the ELC, the new Global Methodist Church broke off from the United Methodist Church. Presbyterian Church in America broke off from the Presbyterian Church-USA, etc.

---

This is my church and what I was referring to. It makes me sad to see what has become of the Episcopal church which we sued and lost our 300 year old church property to. It's not even really a church but more like a social justice club. The new Episcopal bishop here is a woman who started the BLM chapter of Denver. It would be closer to the Unitiarian universalists than to Anglicanism.

---

Yea

Mainline denominations are also in total free fall

Well, it finally happened.

The mainline dropped below 10% of the sample in 2022.

In the 1950s, historians have said that mainliners were more than 50% of the population.

They were 31% of America in 1976.

19% in 1988.

14% in 2004.

10% in 2016.

And now, 9%. pic.twitter.com/kpd6Jdhgq6

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) May 15, 2024

Gotcha.

I guess I was using the wrong label.

Too many years of "keep your religious and social opinions to yourself" while others shouted louder and louder.

I know it is popular for many to say we have fallen too far, there's no stopping this slide, the end is near. All those things may very well be true but, in the OT, Israel rebelled time after time. They returned to God time after time after God intervened in some way. Im praying that we all become more familiar with the truth and are willing to share it when we can whether in a graduation ceremony or with a coworker, family member, or friend.

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

It would seem that the future of Roman Catholicism..at least over the next few generations...is more traditionalism/Latin Mass style Catholic identity

[According to a 2021 survey, 28% of U.S. Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week have also attended a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/586643/traditional-catholic-parishes-grow-even-as-us-catholicism-declines/

[Traditional Catholic parishes run by one society of priests are growing in the United States, defying the trend of decline in the broader American church over previous decades.

The fraternity has witnessed a steady increase in the number of priests in the society since its founding in 1988, and ordinations continue to grow. Between 2007 and 2012, an average of 10 seminarians were ordained priests each year. Between 2013 and 2018, that number has jumped to an average of almost 15 per year. Annual reports provided to the Washington Examiner by the society show the number of the fraternity's personal parishes has tripled from 11 to 33 in the U.S. since 2008. A personal parish is a Catholic community recognized by bishops based on a special feature of the group, such as commitment to celebrating the Latin liturgy, rather than geographical location.]

Traditionalist Catholics also tend to be younger than regular parish Catholics

[The median age of Catholic adults in the U.S. is 49 years old four years older than it was in 2007.]

[According to a 2019-2020 survey, the average age of respondents to the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) was 27.4 years old. The survey also found that 57% of respondents were male, which is eight percentage points higher than the male participation in the USA population]

---

The pre-Vatican 2 mass is a small issue. The bigger ones Rome are dealing with are the societal issues of divorce, LGTBG, reduced members, and such. Francis has taken them on head on and forced dialogue that needs to happen.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Quote:

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... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

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Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

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Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

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Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

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Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

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Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

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Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

It would seem that the future of Roman Catholicism..at least over the next few generations...is more traditionalism/Latin Mass style Catholic identity

[According to a 2021 survey, 28% of U.S. Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week have also attended a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/586643/traditional-catholic-parishes-grow-even-as-us-catholicism-declines/

[Traditional Catholic parishes run by one society of priests are growing in the United States, defying the trend of decline in the broader American church over previous decades.

The fraternity has witnessed a steady increase in the number of priests in the society since its founding in 1988, and ordinations continue to grow. Between 2007 and 2012, an average of 10 seminarians were ordained priests each year. Between 2013 and 2018, that number has jumped to an average of almost 15 per year. Annual reports provided to the Washington Examiner by the society show the number of the fraternity's personal parishes has tripled from 11 to 33 in the U.S. since 2008. A personal parish is a Catholic community recognized by bishops based on a special feature of the group, such as commitment to celebrating the Latin liturgy, rather than geographical location.]

Traditionalist Catholics also tend to be younger than regular parish Catholics

[The median age of Catholic adults in the U.S. is 49 years old four years older than it was in 2007.]

[According to a 2019-2020 survey, the average age of respondents to the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) was 27.4 years old. The survey also found that 57% of respondents were male, which is eight percentage points higher than the male participation in the USA population]

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The pre-Vatican 2 mass is a small issue. The bigger ones Rome are dealing with are the societal issues of divorce, LGTBG, reduced members, and such. Francis has taken them on head on and forced dialogue that needs to happen.

---

Sure,

The point is that the TLM (traditional Latin mass) community is much more conservative on those issues.

And its much more likely to be young, engaged in the Church, and is having a lot of kids.

Its going to be a big part of the future of Catholicism as the generations go by

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

It would seem that the future of Roman Catholicism..at least over the next few generations...is more traditionalism/Latin Mass style Catholic identity

[According to a 2021 survey, 28% of U.S. Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week have also attended a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/586643/traditional-catholic-parishes-grow-even-as-us-catholicism-declines/

[Traditional Catholic parishes run by one society of priests are growing in the United States, defying the trend of decline in the broader American church over previous decades.

The fraternity has witnessed a steady increase in the number of priests in the society since its founding in 1988, and ordinations continue to grow. Between 2007 and 2012, an average of 10 seminarians were ordained priests each year. Between 2013 and 2018, that number has jumped to an average of almost 15 per year. Annual reports provided to the Washington Examiner by the society show the number of the fraternity's personal parishes has tripled from 11 to 33 in the U.S. since 2008. A personal parish is a Catholic community recognized by bishops based on a special feature of the group, such as commitment to celebrating the Latin liturgy, rather than geographical location.]

Traditionalist Catholics also tend to be younger than regular parish Catholics

[The median age of Catholic adults in the U.S. is 49 years old four years older than it was in 2007.]

[According to a 2019-2020 survey, the average age of respondents to the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) was 27.4 years old. The survey also found that 57% of respondents were male, which is eight percentage points higher than the male participation in the USA population]

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The pre-Vatican 2 mass is a small issue. The bigger ones Rome are dealing with are the societal issues of divorce, LGTBG, reduced members, and such. Francis has taken them on head on and forced dialogue that needs to happen.

---

Sure,

The point is that the TLM (traditional Latin mass) community is much more conservative on those issues.

And its much more likely to be young, engaged in the Church, and is having a lot of kids.

Its a going to be a big part of the future of Catholicism as the generations go by

---

Absolutely, Francis is dealing with the traditional, but also not just punting on those that the Catholic Church would just have either called sinners in the past and not engage or tell them to follow Canonical Law. A good example is divorce. Without an annulment a person cannot remarry. That has cut millions of Catholics off from the Sacraments or they live the rest of their lives celibate. I use that example because Protestants will see it as an easy fix, but for Catholics it is not. Gay/Lesbian is probably more in line between the two. I don't expect an argument on how to fix it, they are examples of modern problems in a traditional organization.

I get where he is coming from that it needs to be examined and these people can't be just left in the wilderness or miserable for life, but I am not sure he is the right person to get the Church to the right point. He is a Socialist and does not get the Western thoughts. He may be too much of a shift from JP2, Ratzinger. But, I think the Church sees its future in Africa, S America, and Asia so you may see an African Pople next. The West is too secular.

I really recommend the movie "Two Popes", even for Protestants. It gives a great commentary on the Church and how it fits in the world. My wife was Lutheran, I went to Baylor, my Mom was Eastern Rite Orthodox and my Dad's family was Roman Catholic. I have fought/discussed these issues my whole life!

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

But what does that have to do with salvation?

---

Not to make this a theology thread....

But it would seem that in Catholic teaching the sacraments are necessary for salvation.

Vs a more Protestant theological idea that there are no sacraments or that if there are sacraments they are not necessary to salvation.


"the sacraments confers the grace they signify. They are efficacious" (CCC 1127) "The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation." (CCC 1129)

[Yes, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) 1129 states that the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. The sacraments are "powers that come forth" from the Body of Christ, and they communicate Christ's Holy Spirit to his members. The sacraments also unite people to God. The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer a sacramental character or "seal" that makes the Christian a member of the Church and shares in Christ's priesthood]

---

Aside from the fact that the belief that sacraments like marriage are necessary for salvation is patently unbiblical, it also doesn't make any sense - why then would Catholics require their priests to be celibate, which would in effect make them unsaved?

---

Don't know…eastern Catholic Priests can in fact marry and do so.

For practical matters it looks like the Latin Church stopped Priests from marrying. Or had them "marry" the Church

"The requirement of celibacy is not dogma; it is an ecclesiastical law that was adopted in the Middle Ages because Rome was worried that clerics' children would inherit church property and create dynasties."

[Theologically, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that priesthood is a ministry conformed to the life and work of Jesus Christ. Priests as sacramental ministers act in persona Christi ('in the mask of Christ'). Thus the life of the priest conforms, the church believes, to the chastity of Christ himself. The sacrifice of married life is for the "sake of the Kingdom" (Luke 18:2830,[11] Matthew 19:2730),[12] and to follow the example of Jesus Christ in being "married" to the church, viewed by Catholicism and many Christian traditions as the "Bride of Christ" (following Ephesians 5:2533[13] and Revelation 21:9,[14] together with the spousal imagery at Mark 2:1920;[15] cf. Matthew 9:1415).]

---

Want to follow Southern Baptist Convention, go to Baylor.

---

Baylor (or at least the leadership) is definitely NOT Southern Baptist anymore.

One might even argue they are not particularly Baptist at all anymore.

Any kind of speech that even touch on sexual-cultural themes of this nature would be extreme controversial to the faculty and leadership…and probably to a good number of our big urban metro students

---

Got to know your Audience. I would imagine Benedictine is a pretty orthodox school, St Benedict was not exactly a "anything goes" guy…

He stepped on it in the highest calling Homemaker comment, as Nuns who have given their life to serving others were not happy about that.

---

---

Trad Caths need to lead the way forward. We need to reject the liberalism that is bing embraced by mainline protestantism.

---

It would seem that the future of Roman Catholicism..at least over the next few generations...is more traditionalism/Latin Mass style Catholic identity

[According to a 2021 survey, 28% of U.S. Catholics who attend Mass at least once a week have also attended a Traditional Latin Mass (TLM)]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/586643/traditional-catholic-parishes-grow-even-as-us-catholicism-declines/

[Traditional Catholic parishes run by one society of priests are growing in the United States, defying the trend of decline in the broader American church over previous decades.

The fraternity has witnessed a steady increase in the number of priests in the society since its founding in 1988, and ordinations continue to grow. Between 2007 and 2012, an average of 10 seminarians were ordained priests each year. Between 2013 and 2018, that number has jumped to an average of almost 15 per year. Annual reports provided to the Washington Examiner by the society show the number of the fraternity's personal parishes has tripled from 11 to 33 in the U.S. since 2008. A personal parish is a Catholic community recognized by bishops based on a special feature of the group, such as commitment to celebrating the Latin liturgy, rather than geographical location.]

Traditionalist Catholics also tend to be younger than regular parish Catholics

[The median age of Catholic adults in the U.S. is 49 years old four years older than it was in 2007.]

[According to a 2019-2020 survey, the average age of respondents to the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) was 27.4 years old. The survey also found that 57% of respondents were male, which is eight percentage points higher than the male participation in the USA population]

---

The pre-Vatican 2 mass is a small issue. The bigger ones Rome are dealing with are the societal issues of divorce, LGTBG, reduced members, and such. Francis has taken them on head on and forced dialogue that needs to happen.

---

Sure,

The point is that the TLM (traditional Latin mass) community is much more conservative on those issues.

And its much more likely to be young, engaged in the Church, and is having a lot of kids.

Its a going to be a big part of the future of Catholicism as the generations go by

---

Absolutely, Francis is dealing with the traditional, but also not just punting on those that the Catholic Church would just have either called sinners in the past and not engage or tell them to follow Canonical Law. A good example is divorce. Without an annulment a person cannot remarry. That has cut millions of Catholics off from the Sacraments or they live the rest of their lives celibate. I use that example because Protestants will see it as an easy fix, but for Catholics it is not. Gay/Lesbian is probably more in line between the two. I don't expect an argument on how to fix it, they are examples of modern problems in a traditional organization.

I get where he is coming from that it needs to be examined and these people can't be just left in the wilderness or miserable for life, but I am not sure he is the right person to get the Church to the right point. He is a Socialist and does not get the Western thoughts. He may be too much of a shift from JP2, Ratzinger. But, I think the Church sees its future in Africa, S America, and Asia so you may see an African Pople next. The West is too secular.

I really recommend the movie "Two Popes", even for Protestants. It gives a great commentary on the Church and how it fits in the world. My wife was Lutheran, I went to Baylor, my Mom was Eastern Rite Orthodox and my Dad's family was Roman Catholic. I have fought/discussed these issues my whole life!

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" I have fought/discussed these issues my whole life!"

I feel ya

riflebear said:

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quash said:

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muddybrazos said:

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and Libs heads explode

The NFL has responded to the graduation speech Harrison Butker recently gave at Benedictine College, saying, "His views are not those of the NFL as an organization," adding they're committed to "inclusion" which "only makes our league stronger."

In his speech, Butker referenced… pic.twitter.com/E0XX3WxQrL

— Julia 🇺🇸 (@Jules31415) May 16, 2024

He talks about the importance of fathers & the nuclear family and the NFL who protects criminals comes out to denounce him. Typical reaction from the left and the degenerates that are running society these days.

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Don't worry, we'll soon have a unified Reich

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The fact that educated people still believe the liberal media is shocking.

You've been duped again by the Fake News Media, America.

Add the "Unified Reich Hoax" to the list.

Newsmax's @SchmittNYC did a great job exposing the hoax. You're going to want to watch this. pic.twitter.com/GDrH2x3mAQ

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) May 22, 2024

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It does appear to be a tempest in a teapot

“I let you guys in this room and you have a lot of opinions that I don't like.”

I love the loyalty. 👏 https://t.co/1WjE9uHqAw

— Brittany Martinez (@BritMartinez) May 23, 2024

Oh yeah and child abuse allegations..

A portion of the Tyreek Hill audio with Crystal Espinal:

Espinal: "What do you do when the child is bad? You make him open up his arms and you punch him in the chest."

Hill: “You do use a belt. That’s sad,” Hill said. “Even my mama says you use a belt.”

— RIP Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) April 26, 2019

Jack Bauer said:

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Feminists will stand for men competing in women's sports but not a Catholic in the NFL.

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Everyone has their standards.

That just tells you what liberals standards are….

Translation: Liberals can give EXTREMELY overtly political/nutty commencement addresses & get nothing but praise within their circle, while if a conservative like Harrison Butker does so, his entire way of life is threatened.

BTW good to know that Ken Burns was always a Marxist. https://t.co/gSU9MiOBCe

— John Ziegler (@Zigmanfreud) May 26, 2024

Johnny Bear said:

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quash said:

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muddybrazos said:

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and Libs heads explode

The NFL has responded to the graduation speech Harrison Butker recently gave at Benedictine College, saying, "His views are not those of the NFL as an organization," adding they're committed to "inclusion" which "only makes our league stronger."

In his speech, Butker referenced… pic.twitter.com/E0XX3WxQrL

— Julia 🇺🇸 (@Jules31415) May 16, 2024

He talks about the importance of fathers & the nuclear family and the NFL who protects criminals comes out to denounce him. Typical reaction from the left and the degenerates that are running society these days.

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Don't worry, we'll soon have a unified Reich

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In other words, you think Biden is going to get re-elected(?).

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Way to dodge the point.

And yes, without my vote, which he won't need.

FLBear5630 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Quote:

---

... and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.

---

---

Oof.

Never mind the other stuff, this is probably the worst of what he said - if it means what it appears to mean. If it doesn't, then perhaps a Catholic here can explain what he meant by this.

---

Marriage is a Sacrament, right there with Baptism, Communion, Holy Order, Reconciliation, Last Rites...

Catholic Church takes Sacraments very seriously. Marriage is an agreement between man, women and God to live Christian life. Marriage is not disposable, requires work and diligence That is how I read it as a Catholic.

---

Well stated Brother.

The seven sacramentsBaptism, Confirmation, Holy Communion, Confession, Marriage, Holy Orders, and the Anointing of the Sickare the life of the Catholic Church. Each sacrament is an outward sign of an inward grace. When we participate in them worthily, each provides us with graceswith the life of God in our soul.