EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

And watch how many US servicemen refuse to fight their own people.

---

Initially most will follow orders.

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

you mean the Europeans that dont stand up to Tyranny?

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

And watch how many US servicemen refuse to fight their own people.

---

in which case the general populaces access to Weapons would become irrelevant, if the Army decided to mount a coup against the government, it would be the Armies weapons that carried the day, not the ones carried by the Public

cms186 said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

And watch how many US servicemen refuse to fight their own people.

---

in which case the general populaces access to Weapons would become irrelevant, if the Army decided to mount a coup against the government, it would be the Armies weapons that carried the day, not the ones carried by the Public

---

This is not a serious response as it assumes all the army would defect. It would not. Most would follow orders even if not enthusiastically. There would be enough defections to cause much chaos, however, and some advanced weapons would follow the defectors.
The armed forces would likely try to make an example of some locations, as they couldn't be everywhere at once. After that, more defections would likely follow depending on the harshness of the example. There would be a tenuous hold on the country by the government, but it would be severely weakened from its united version. Small arms would become a factor quickly.

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

you mean the Europeans that dont stand up to Tyranny?

---

You have me confused with someone else.

I clearly stated earlier that the English and Scott's WOULD eventually fight . Just as their ancestors have.

cms having a wet dream in print.

Total creep.

KaiBear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

And watch how many US servicemen refuse to fight their own people.

---

Initially most will follow orders.

---

A couple generations ago, some men "fragged" NCO's and officers who put their lives needlessly in peril.

You can bet money that would happen again if someone was stupid enough to try mass firearms confiscation in the US.

But you may want to pay attention to the fact that even Tin Man Tim has been playing up his inner Elmer Fudd, errr his love of hunting, which involves recreational use of firearms. There are zero major political figures playing up the idea of gun confiscation, even Ms. Harris has walked back that evil scheme.

Orwell was right.......

Oldbear83 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

---

I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

---

The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

---

Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

---

True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

---

And watch how many US servicemen refuse to fight their own people.

---

Initially most will follow orders.

---

A couple generations ago, some men "fragged" NCO's and officers who put their lives needlessly in peril.

You can bet money that would happen again if someone was stupid enough to try mass firearms confiscation in the US.

But you may want to pay attention to the fact that even Tin Man Tim has been playing up his inner Elmer Fudd, errr his love of hunting, which involves recreational use of firearms. There are zero major political figures playing up the idea of gun confiscation, even Ms. Harris has walked back that evil scheme.

---

No one ever considered murdering our officers.

They led from the front.

We followed their orders without question as it was the best way to stay alive.

It would be the same in the future.

https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/8/article/615544#:~:text=Overall%2C%20Lepre%20convincingly%20argues%20that,later%20years%20of%20the%20war.

"According to author George Lepre, the total number of known and suspected fragging cases using explosives in Vietnam from 1969 to 1972 totalled nearly 900, with 99 deaths and many injuries."

Oldbear83 said:

---

https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/8/article/615544#:~:text=Overall%2C%20Lepre%20convincingly%20argues%20that,later%20years%20of%20the%20war.

"According to author George Lepre, the total number of known and suspected fragging cases using explosives in Vietnam from 1969 to 1972 totalled nearly 900, with 99 deaths and many injuries."

---

Damn shame.

Englishman - "meh, what can you do about it?"

"This is in relation to some comments you made on Facebook" - UK Stasi pic.twitter.com/1TCWExlWAd

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) August 12, 2024

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Sir Winston Churchill said it best:

"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage."

---

Winston Churchill

The greatest politician in the English speaking world until
victory was achieved in 1945.

Then the physical and mental ravages of old age took hold.

---

I feel what you are saying but Chruchill over saw the end of the British empire (wasted lives and money on two foolish world wars)

While Ben oversaw the British empire reach its peak of power

He was the best PM of the UK

---

Reasonable opinion.

But Ben didn't have to deal with the likes of Stalin or Hitler from a position of weakness.

---

Churchill was actually a complete POS. Hitler made several peace offeriings and wanted to avoid war with Britian and he rejected all of them. He was paid off to push Britian into war.

---

By todays standards, Churchill might be a bit unpleasant, but then thats always going to be the case, Hitler might have wanted to avoid a war with Britain at the time, because it suited him to attack Europe piece by piece, but i think its pretty clear that we would have been attacked sooner or later and Churchill made the right calls in fighting Hitler when he did.

referring back to the "unrest" talked about in the OP, when your right wing media is constantly blaming everything on Immigrants, then you get right wing idiots blaming a stabbing attack on Islamic illegal immigrants (when the attacked was a Christian born in the UK to legal -I think- immigrant parents), sadly it brings out the morons. The Tories had over a decade to sort it out and have, if anything, taken the country backwards in many ways, leaving the EU was a massive mistake.

I went to London a few weeks ago and regret to inform people that its rumours of becoming a no-go zone for White people are vastly over stated, Its a vast, multi-cultural city, in a good way.

---

From 2012 to 2021, 2,729,000 immigrants from non-EU countries entered the UK. Since then a further 2,143,000 entered, 4,872,000 in 12 years. Crime rates in England & Wales have risen every year since 2013-14 (4,028,463 offences) to 2023-24 (6,657,518), a 60% increase in 10 years.

Now correlation isn't causation, but that's a catastrophic trend.

---

I dont know where you got your numbers from, but that is pretty misleading, there was a rise in Crime rate from 13/14 through to 18/19, but since then (barring a sharp decrease because of Covid and a corresponding rise after it, Our Crime Rate (the amount of crimes happening per 1000 people) has remained largely the same and actually decreased significantly last year to the point it is (only just) lower than it was in 18/19. So yes, there are more crimes, but the actual rate at which crimes is happening isnt increasing much (if at all).

England and Wales currently experiences 89.7 crimes per 1000 people, 20 years ago, that number was at 110.6

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030625/crime-rate-uk/

Quote:

---

It is a dangerous city, I've been multiple times and once had foreigners try to bait me out of a taxi in Piccadilly Circus and the driver locked the doors and saying that groups of foreigners will stab you and take your belongings. My brother in law who lived there for a few years before covid was attacked in Notting Hill of all places while jogging, by two guys, one with a balaclava and hammer, thankfully he was able to defend himself and fight them off.

---

Its a big city, it has dangerous parts, every city does, especially one as large as London, Im sorry youve had bad experiences there, but Ive been to London many times, both with Family and alone, using public transport, walking alone after Dark and I can honestly say ive never experienced any kind of crime or witnessed it happening to others

Quote:

---

My biggest issue with the UK is you're not allowed to speak freely. You should be able to say incorrect and inaccurate things and vice versa…but your government has vocally professed that it wants to further police speech.

You're not headed in the right direction.

---

In Britain, for the most part, you can say what you want, but if you knowingly say something that is incorrect that harms someone else in some way, then thats something that you should face consequences for. Actions have consequences.

You shouldnt be allowed to lie about the religion of a terrorist and incite riots in the Streets, for example

---

So who gets to determine the speaker's intent ? Who gets to determine if the comment is a 'lie' ?

You; the government; or just those you agree with ?


Can't you see how such ' controls ' can be abused ?

---

Well, generally speaking, they would get settled in a court of law, thats why we have laws for Libel and defamation.

Whilst the laws in the USA are less Plaintiff friendly, they still exist, meaning that there is no absolute right to Free speech

---

At some level you most know you are deflecting my questions.

Totalitarian regimes both right and left of the political spectrum have often controlled their people by clamping down on free speech.


History has shown repeatedly the real threat to a free society is the restriction of free speech.

---

just means, for example, when a Man walks into a Primary school and murders 17 Children with a Gun, some countries would prefer to take steps to ensure that kind of disaster never happens again over maintaining a freedom to bear arms.

---

Another obvious deflection.

As a thoughtful and intelligent individual, you know exactly what is occuring in Great Britain and the risks involved.

You simply approve of these cultural changes.

Restrictions of free speech are common in Muslim countries and throughout much of the Far East.

However I have confidence in the strength of the English and Scotts.

They will eventually fight back and prevail.

However the process of regaining their country will be a bloody mess.

---

Unfortunately, soon, or basically now, the British and scots have forever ceased to be British and scots as a result of the wrong side of history thinking (for their own survival) of thoughts like cms describes assuming cms is a British or Scott in the sense you are likely describing

Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Sir Winston Churchill said it best:

"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage."

---

Winston Churchill

The greatest politician in the English speaking world until
victory was achieved in 1945.

Then the physical and mental ravages of old age took hold.

---

I feel what you are saying but Chruchill over saw the end of the British empire (wasted lives and money on two foolish world wars)

While Ben oversaw the British empire reach its peak of power

He was the best PM of the UK

---

Reasonable opinion.

But Ben didn't have to deal with the likes of Stalin or Hitler from a position of weakness.

---

Churchill was actually a complete POS. Hitler made several peace offeriings and wanted to avoid war with Britian and he rejected all of them. He was paid off to push Britian into war.

---

By todays standards, Churchill might be a bit unpleasant, but then thats always going to be the case, Hitler might have wanted to avoid a war with Britain at the time, because it suited him to attack Europe piece by piece, but i think its pretty clear that we would have been attacked sooner or later and Churchill made the right calls in fighting Hitler when he did.

referring back to the "unrest" talked about in the OP, when your right wing media is constantly blaming everything on Immigrants, then you get right wing idiots blaming a stabbing attack on Islamic illegal immigrants (when the attacked was a Christian born in the UK to legal -I think- immigrant parents), sadly it brings out the morons. The Tories had over a decade to sort it out and have, if anything, taken the country backwards in many ways, leaving the EU was a massive mistake.

I went to London a few weeks ago and regret to inform people that its rumours of becoming a no-go zone for White people are vastly over stated, Its a vast, multi-cultural city, in a good way.

---

From 2012 to 2021, 2,729,000 immigrants from non-EU countries entered the UK. Since then a further 2,143,000 entered, 4,872,000 in 12 years. Crime rates in England & Wales have risen every year since 2013-14 (4,028,463 offences) to 2023-24 (6,657,518), a 60% increase in 10 years.

Now correlation isn't causation, but that's a catastrophic trend.

---

I dont know where you got your numbers from, but that is pretty misleading, there was a rise in Crime rate from 13/14 through to 18/19, but since then (barring a sharp decrease because of Covid and a corresponding rise after it, Our Crime Rate (the amount of crimes happening per 1000 people) has remained largely the same and actually decreased significantly last year to the point it is (only just) lower than it was in 18/19. So yes, there are more crimes, but the actual rate at which crimes is happening isnt increasing much (if at all).

England and Wales currently experiences 89.7 crimes per 1000 people, 20 years ago, that number was at 110.6

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030625/crime-rate-uk/

Quote:

---

It is a dangerous city, I've been multiple times and once had foreigners try to bait me out of a taxi in Piccadilly Circus and the driver locked the doors and saying that groups of foreigners will stab you and take your belongings. My brother in law who lived there for a few years before covid was attacked in Notting Hill of all places while jogging, by two guys, one with a balaclava and hammer, thankfully he was able to defend himself and fight them off.

---

Its a big city, it has dangerous parts, every city does, especially one as large as London, Im sorry youve had bad experiences there, but Ive been to London many times, both with Family and alone, using public transport, walking alone after Dark and I can honestly say ive never experienced any kind of crime or witnessed it happening to others

Quote:

---

My biggest issue with the UK is you're not allowed to speak freely. You should be able to say incorrect and inaccurate things and vice versa…but your government has vocally professed that it wants to further police speech.

You're not headed in the right direction.

---

In Britain, for the most part, you can say what you want, but if you knowingly say something that is incorrect that harms someone else in some way, then thats something that you should face consequences for. Actions have consequences.

You shouldnt be allowed to lie about the religion of a terrorist and incite riots in the Streets, for example

---

So who gets to determine the speaker's intent ? Who gets to determine if the comment is a 'lie' ?

You; the government; or just those you agree with ?


Can't you see how such ' controls ' can be abused ?

---

Well, generally speaking, they would get settled in a court of law, thats why we have laws for Libel and defamation.

Whilst the laws in the USA are less Plaintiff friendly, they still exist, meaning that there is no absolute right to Free speech

---

At some level you most know you are deflecting my questions.

Totalitarian regimes both right and left of the political spectrum have often controlled their people by clamping down on free speech.


History has shown repeatedly the real threat to a free society is the restriction of free speech.

---

just means, for example, when a Man walks into a Primary school and murders 17 Children with a Gun, some countries would prefer to take steps to ensure that kind of disaster never happens again over maintaining a freedom to bear arms.

---

Another obvious deflection.

As a thoughtful and intelligent individual, you know exactly what is occuring in Great Britain and the risks involved.

You simply approve of these cultural changes.

Restrictions of free speech are common in Muslim countries and throughout much of the Far East.

However I have confidence in the strength of the English and Scotts.

They will eventually fight back and prevail.

However the process of regaining their country will be a bloody mess.

---

Unfortunately, soon, or basically now, the British and scots have forever ceased to be British and scots as a result of the wrong side of history thinking (for their own survival) of thoughts like cms describes assuming cms is a British or Scott in the sense you are likely describing

---

CMS is entitled to the views that most effectively support his cultural ambitions.

Though I doubt his views reflect those of traditional Englishmen or Scotsmen.

And sooner rather than later such traditionalists will fight for their survival and win.

KaiBear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

cms186 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

cms186 said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

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Sir Winston Churchill said it best:

"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage."

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Winston Churchill

The greatest politician in the English speaking world until
victory was achieved in 1945.

Then the physical and mental ravages of old age took hold.

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I feel what you are saying but Chruchill over saw the end of the British empire (wasted lives and money on two foolish world wars)

While Ben oversaw the British empire reach its peak of power

He was the best PM of the UK

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Reasonable opinion.

But Ben didn't have to deal with the likes of Stalin or Hitler from a position of weakness.

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Churchill was actually a complete POS. Hitler made several peace offeriings and wanted to avoid war with Britian and he rejected all of them. He was paid off to push Britian into war.

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By todays standards, Churchill might be a bit unpleasant, but then thats always going to be the case, Hitler might have wanted to avoid a war with Britain at the time, because it suited him to attack Europe piece by piece, but i think its pretty clear that we would have been attacked sooner or later and Churchill made the right calls in fighting Hitler when he did.

referring back to the "unrest" talked about in the OP, when your right wing media is constantly blaming everything on Immigrants, then you get right wing idiots blaming a stabbing attack on Islamic illegal immigrants (when the attacked was a Christian born in the UK to legal -I think- immigrant parents), sadly it brings out the morons. The Tories had over a decade to sort it out and have, if anything, taken the country backwards in many ways, leaving the EU was a massive mistake.

I went to London a few weeks ago and regret to inform people that its rumours of becoming a no-go zone for White people are vastly over stated, Its a vast, multi-cultural city, in a good way.

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From 2012 to 2021, 2,729,000 immigrants from non-EU countries entered the UK. Since then a further 2,143,000 entered, 4,872,000 in 12 years. Crime rates in England & Wales have risen every year since 2013-14 (4,028,463 offences) to 2023-24 (6,657,518), a 60% increase in 10 years.

Now correlation isn't causation, but that's a catastrophic trend.

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I dont know where you got your numbers from, but that is pretty misleading, there was a rise in Crime rate from 13/14 through to 18/19, but since then (barring a sharp decrease because of Covid and a corresponding rise after it, Our Crime Rate (the amount of crimes happening per 1000 people) has remained largely the same and actually decreased significantly last year to the point it is (only just) lower than it was in 18/19. So yes, there are more crimes, but the actual rate at which crimes is happening isnt increasing much (if at all).

England and Wales currently experiences 89.7 crimes per 1000 people, 20 years ago, that number was at 110.6

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1030625/crime-rate-uk/

Quote:

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It is a dangerous city, I've been multiple times and once had foreigners try to bait me out of a taxi in Piccadilly Circus and the driver locked the doors and saying that groups of foreigners will stab you and take your belongings. My brother in law who lived there for a few years before covid was attacked in Notting Hill of all places while jogging, by two guys, one with a balaclava and hammer, thankfully he was able to defend himself and fight them off.

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Its a big city, it has dangerous parts, every city does, especially one as large as London, Im sorry youve had bad experiences there, but Ive been to London many times, both with Family and alone, using public transport, walking alone after Dark and I can honestly say ive never experienced any kind of crime or witnessed it happening to others

Quote:

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My biggest issue with the UK is you're not allowed to speak freely. You should be able to say incorrect and inaccurate things and vice versa…but your government has vocally professed that it wants to further police speech.

You're not headed in the right direction.

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In Britain, for the most part, you can say what you want, but if you knowingly say something that is incorrect that harms someone else in some way, then thats something that you should face consequences for. Actions have consequences.

You shouldnt be allowed to lie about the religion of a terrorist and incite riots in the Streets, for example

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So who gets to determine the speaker's intent ? Who gets to determine if the comment is a 'lie' ?

You; the government; or just those you agree with ?


Can't you see how such ' controls ' can be abused ?

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Well, generally speaking, they would get settled in a court of law, thats why we have laws for Libel and defamation.

Whilst the laws in the USA are less Plaintiff friendly, they still exist, meaning that there is no absolute right to Free speech

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At some level you most know you are deflecting my questions.

Totalitarian regimes both right and left of the political spectrum have often controlled their people by clamping down on free speech.


History has shown repeatedly the real threat to a free society is the restriction of free speech.

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just means, for example, when a Man walks into a Primary school and murders 17 Children with a Gun, some countries would prefer to take steps to ensure that kind of disaster never happens again over maintaining a freedom to bear arms.

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Another obvious deflection.

As a thoughtful and intelligent individual, you know exactly what is occuring in Great Britain and the risks involved.

You simply approve of these cultural changes.

Restrictions of free speech are common in Muslim countries and throughout much of the Far East.

However I have confidence in the strength of the English and Scotts.

They will eventually fight back and prevail.

However the process of regaining their country will be a bloody mess.

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Unfortunately, soon, or basically now, the British and scots have forever ceased to be British and scots as a result of the wrong side of history thinking (for their own survival) of thoughts like cms describes assuming cms is a British or Scott in the sense you are likely describing

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CMS is entitled to the views that most effectively support his cultural ambitions.

Though I doubt his views reflect those of traditional Englishmen or Scotsmen.

And sooner rather than later such traditionalists will fight for their survival and win.

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One would hope. Their running short on time. Same as in america especially after kamala slaughters the "republicans"

Jack Bauer said:

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historian said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Guaranteed they will tell these children something is disinformation that turns out to be true. It will happen.

UK children to be taught how to spot extremist content and misinformation online https://t.co/qWtj2gqo0U

— Guardian news (@guardiannews) August 10, 2024

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This reminds me of the reports about how the Nazis & Soviets indoctrinated children with their evil ideologies and taught kids how to rat out their parents and others.

It looks like in the UK, Hitler finally did win.

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2024 - "extremist" content includes

-believing there are 2 genders

-believing in secure borders

-'misgendering' someone

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Exactly. The fascists are getting more & more Orwellian with their abuse of the language and of the people's rights.

cms186 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

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I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, its something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

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The British have a fascist government persecuting people for praying silently or being honest about gender. Muslim immigrants are treated with kid gloves while citizens are persecuted for exercising their rights. Do the British remember that they were on the winning side of WWII and the Cold War? Their govt is acting like those totalitarian regimes they defeated. They are proving Orwell's warnings correct almost daily.

As for gun violence in America, there is an easy solution: keep the guns out of the hands of Leftists. I don't know of a single mass shooting this century anywhere in the US committed by someone politically on the right. Any such example is probably a lie, just like the guy who tried to assassinate Trump. Instead, they are radical greenies, trans cultists, or some other fringe Leftist identity that cannot deal with reality.

Yes, I'm half joking. The Constitution does not allow denying people's rights based upon politics but it does make sense because the nut cases shooting up schools, churches, etc. are Leftists.

cms186 said:

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historian said:

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Who defines what that means?

People say stupid things all the time. Unless, they are threatening someone's life, inciting a riot, or otherwise endangering people it's none of the government's business. That's what genuine free speech means.

If someone's speech makes politicians uncomfortable then it's probably a good thing, at least nowadays with politicians doing and saying so many evil things.

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I dont think ive said anything that says opposite to that, have I?

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I don't know if you have specifically but once a government outlaws hate speech or punishes people for unpopular opinions, then it's already a tyranny. Hate speech laws are only used against speech Leftists find hateful. They often use plenty of hate speech themselves to describe people who say things they don't like. For example, nowadays it's hateful to oppose men competing in women's sports or to accurately label a fake woman (aka "trans woman") as a man. Except they are men and it's misogynistic cheating to allow them to steal trophies or medals from women.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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KaiBear said:

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cms186 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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cms186 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

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I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, it's something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

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The European mind can't comprehend the level of freedom we have.

It's in our DNA and why we're here. You don't have it in your DNA to stand up against tyranny. You won't fight back and you have nothing to fight back with…we don't have that problem.

All governments have a 100% track record of becoming tyrannical. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Thank god our founding fathers understood this.

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Europe doesnt stand up against Tyranny might be the single dumbest thing I've read on this Forum.

I would also add, whilst the level of access to Guns the average American has is crazy, if the American Government ever did become Tyrannical and the US populace wanted to rise up, your Guns would matter **** all against a mobilised Army with Air and Armour Support

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True , wouldn't matter much against armour and air units.

But such guns would play hell with local political minions and smaller units of troops.

Partisan units are often effective …..just ask the Germans how the Poles, Russians and Slavs carved up their supply lines .

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And watch how many US servicemen refuse to fight their own people.

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This is key in such situations. A tyrannical government with all the guns and power will lose against an unarmed population if that army is unwilling to kill their fellow citizens. It's why the Romania became free with the rest of Eastern Europe after the 1989 revolutions. Unfortunately, the Chinese military was more than willing to kill Chinese civilians at Tiananmen Square.

Jack Bauer said:

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Englishman - "meh, what can you do about it?"

"This is in relation to some comments you made on Facebook" - UK Stasi pic.twitter.com/1TCWExlWAd

— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) August 12, 2024

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British police acting somewhat like the Gestapo. Have they already started creating concentration camps?

One would hope that people will stand up for their rights but we cannot assume they will. There are far too many people willing to acquiesce to tyranny.

historian said:

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cms186 said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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Let me have Professor Ice T explain it to the Englishman.

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I mean, you can say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, Im not ever going to agree about it, the widescale access to dangerous weapons is insane to me, i can get behind maybe a pistol or something for self defence, but the kind of guns you can buy in the USA is crazy, its even more crazy how you have the issues with gun crime and specifically School Shootings and the reaction of Gun enthusiasts is either a shrug of the shoulders or a claim that more guns and prayers will solve the situation. You can say what you like about my country, it is very far from perfect, but we had a single school shooting and took decisive action to make sure something like that would never happen again.

As I say, its something i will never agree on, thats fine, the world would be boring if we all agreed on everything.

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The British have a fascist government persecuting people for praying silently or being honest about gender. Muslim immigrants are treated with kid gloves while citizens are persecuted for exercising their rights. Do the British remember that they were on the winning side of WWII and the Cold War? Their govt is acting like those totalitarian regimes they defeated. They are proving Orwell's warnings correct almost daily.

As for gun violence in America, there is an easy solution: keep the guns out of the hands of Leftists. I don't know of a single mass shooting this century anywhere in the US committed by someone politically on the right. Any such example is probably a lie, just like the guy who tried to assassinate Trump. Instead, they are radical greenies, trans cultists, or some other fringe Leftist identity that cannot deal with reality.

Yes, I'm half joking. The Constitution does not allow denying people's rights based upon politics but it does make sense because the nut cases shooting up schools, churches, etc. are Leftists.

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Then you are keeping your head intentionally buried in the sand

some examples to aid your memory, the 2019 El Paso Walmart shooting, the joint 6th deadliest Mass Shooting in your countries history and the deadliest single attack on Latinos in the USA, carried out by a registered Republican voter and Trump supporter who posted a far-right manifesto online before he carried out the attack.

the 2022 Buffalo shooting, carried out by someone who again, posted a far right manifesto online and expressed support for other Far Right Terrorists like the perpetrator of the Christchurch shootings, the guy who killed hundreds of young people on a Norwegian Island and:

The perpetrator of the Charleston Church shootings, a far Right racist who killed 9 Black people in a Church

the 2023 Allen Shootings, carried out by a Right Wing extremist who wore a "Right Wing Death Squad" patch on his tactical vest as he carried out his crimes

theres just 4, they arent the only ones

Stop what you're doing, sit down, and read this stunning essay by Joshua Treviño, an American who was just in England. https://t.co/Qv9jFmMAJj

— Rod Dreher (@roddreher) August 13, 2024

[The people are dissolved. Understanding themselves close to dissolution, and instinctually grasping that they are thrust into existential crisis and denied all but pre-political means they've voted time and again against this, and the party institutions of conservatism in Britain have shown themselves worthless at best, antipathetic at worst they have asserted their Lockean right to appeal to heaven.

Their numbers are however not large, and they will lose to the regime. The prim horror of it was visible across U.K. media, whose figures positively delighted in reporting the persecution and jailing, not just of those who actually committed property destruction and assault, but of those who expressed disallowed opinions on social media.

The Home Secretary appeared on the BBC and reassured viewers that Britain remains a free-speech society, while presiding over the expedited arrests, trials, and convictions of those who spoke wrongly. A father of small children got more than three years for a tweet. A middle-aged woman in Cheshire had her arrest announced by local authorities: she posted incorrect information on Facebook. The list is extensive and growing, each destruction of a wrongthink-posting nobody's life amplified by the regime pour encourager les autres.

The 1381 rebellion of English peasants under Wat Tyler ended with the victorious Richard II, having prevailed in part through a double-cross of the credulous rebels, sneering to them that "villeins ye are still, and villeins ye shall remain," and this is still the message of the regime in 2024. Like the Canadian state ruthlessly prevailing against the protesting truckers of 2022, and like the American state hunting down the its own dissidents for example California Attorney General Kamala Harris persecuting the enemies of Planned Parenthood the British state will relentlessly crush its opposition now. Its functionaries have already persuaded themselves that they are victims of a conspiracy this too was widely discussed on U.K. regime media and though Americans have lately mocked their pretensions to reach into the United States and extradite the purported instigators of the recent unrest, our own countrymen ought to consider that a left-leaning regime in Washington, D.C., has every reason to cooperate in that process.

This is where the Anglosphere is now, each of its great nations gripped by two-tier and dual-track law and justice. Arsonists who burn Catholic churches are unpursued in Canada; rioters who terrorize communities in the name of racial equity are let go in America; and Muslims wielding weapons are unmolested by the British state. The commonalities are not coincidental.

Regimes have philia too]

I should have remembered that there were some examples. However, they are greatly outnumbered by those of the Left. Mental instability can strike people of any political beliefs. Then again, the crazies tend to gravitate towards the Left: they created the agenda. For example, the trans cult, the climate cult, socialism, etc. Actually, every form of economic or cultural Marxism is of the Left.

historian said:

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I should have remembered that there were some examples. However, they are greatly outnumbered by those of the Left. Mental instability can strike people of any political beliefs. Then again, the crazies tend to gravitate towards the Left: they created the agenda. For example, the trans cult, the climate cult, socialism, etc. Actually, every form of economic or cultural Marxism is of the Left.

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I don't want to dive to far into mass shootings or mass killings in general, its not a pleasant subject to look that far into. However, whilst there are obviously occurrences of extremism from both sides that are linked to a killer, most of the time, they are just sad, mentally ill individuals (usually, occasionally you will get "teams" like in Columbine) whose mental illness have driven them to a terrible act.

There have been 34 Mass shootings in the USA where 10 or more people have been killed, obviously they are many, many more after that, but that number provides a decent cut off point, having had a quick look at all of them that occurred this century (which is 23 out of the 34), only 4 seem to have had any kind of Political motive and they were all linked to the Right Wing (3 of the 4 I mentioned in the previous post and the 2018 Pittsburgh Synagogue shootings)

Now, plenty of the other 19 seem to have "unexplained motives" but the overwhelming link between all of them is not Politics or ideology, but Mental Illness, again, thats not to say that there arent any Left Wing Mass shooters, there are, but they come from both sides of the aisle and there doesnt seem to be an overwhelming majority of left wing ones, like you are saying

Utter bull**** to claim that political attacks in the US are more commonly by the Right.

cms conveniently ignores the attack on Republicans in 2017 by a Sanders supporter, all the BLM violence and of course ANTIFA.

That's just off the top, of course.

Oldbear83 said:

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Utter bull**** to claim that political attacks in the US are more commonly by the Right.

cms conveniently ignores the attack on Republicans in 2017 by a Sanders supporter, all the BLM violence and of course ANTIFA.

That's just off the top, of course.

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Sometimes I swear you guys have decided what you want to read and just go with it regardless of what was actually written..

Firstly, I was quite clearly having a conversation with someone specifically about shootings, not violence in general

Secondly, nowhere in my statements did I say that attacks were commonly carried out by the Right, I said that I had looked at the Shootings with the most casualties and the very few of them that seemed to me to have a Political motive, had a Right Wing motive. I also said that there were certainly examples of Left Wing extremist shootings, I was merely rebutting someone who tried to claim that the overwhelming majority of shootings are carried out by Leftists, thats not the case

I wasnt "ignoring" the Baseball shootings or even the likes of the Murder of Aaron Danielson, but fortunately for those involved, there werent 10 or more people killed in those events, I clearly said that there were other shootings involving Left Wing ideology.

(Now watch you ignore everything ive typed and rant about something else i didnt say)

As cms takes evasive action, my point remains valid.

And the attempted assassination of Trump, all the shootings by trans loonies such as Nashville, and others.

Actually it looked like this.

Can’t blame them for wanting it back. https://t.co/DWYpTr5Wfn pic.twitter.com/uc6nTX2LeQ

— ib (@Indian_Bronson) August 13, 2024

"only 4 seem to have had any kind of Political motive and they were all linked to the Right Wing (3 of the 4 I mentioned in the previous post and the 2018 Pittsburgh Synagogue shootings)"

You ignore plenty of attacks with political motives by trans people, greenies, etc. not to mention the terrorist attacks, of which they have been hundreds since 9-11. Those certainly were politically motivated.

historian said:

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And the attempted assassination of Trump, all the shootings by trans loonies such as Nashville, and others.

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again, i did not ignore them (though would point out the the guy who tried to murder Trump was a registered Republican voter, who also happened to donate a few bucks to a Voter Turnout program ran by the Democrats, so his Political position would best be described as confused or unformed), I was merely countering your original point.