Married A Horn said:

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My point is in my not very educated opinion on the UN: if the US pulls out and takes their $$$ with them - the thing will completely collapse and die.

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Nope. It will become a Chinese front group aimed at hemming in the USA.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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those agencies regulating Tesla and SpaceX have people who should be criminally investigated and at minimum separated from service over abuse of office. Shortly after Musk announced his offer for Twitter, an alphabet soup of federal regulators launched investigations of Elon Musk, his offer, and his companies. It was one of the most blatant partisan abuse of office imaginable....a clear shot across his bow to back off or else.

That's why he and so many others of his type joined up with Trump. It wasn't an endorsement of MAGA. It was a sober recognition that the Republic had been corrupted by partisanship. And it most certainly has been.

---

Once again you guys compartmentalize to politics. You think Twitter is Musks end game? This is about space and energy, dictating the future direction, in this case for his benefit.

His space regulatory issues are more than political gamesmanship. Talk to the FAA and the unauthorized flights over residential areas. You say I am against Trump, which I am not, but are willing to give who you see worthy a pass. Sorry, when launching a rocket over residential areas the FAA needs to be involved. You and Musk want Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, when he wants it or you are a liberal Democrat waging war on poor mind-his-own business, only wants the well being of man Elon Musk. (Who single handily has us on an EV path and played a huge role in Bidens EV policies. ) Talk to the hydrogen people about Musk...

---

Non responsive. And in a way reinforces my point = Elon was a golden boy who could do no wrong as long as he was pulling his wagon in the Democrat train? But then he steps out of his lane? Boom. He's investigated on multiple levels. It's wrong. And he's not the only one to get such treatment. Look at Mark Andressen's comments on debanking. Hell, Melania and Barron Trump were debanked! Is that the kind of country you want to live in? "Don't get in the way of Democrat policy or you & yours will get debanked." Eff that, dude. That kinda stuff cannot stand in a free society. It cannot be tolerated, period. It's tyranny. You have to lop off fingers and digits when it happens or it seeps all the way into your own living room.

Elon is quite a bit more nuanced on EVs than you suggest. He's stated publicly they're not for everyone and has made comments supportive of backing off on subsidies.

Take a gander at what Soros is doing.
Elon is a badly needed counter-balance.

---

You keep mixing issues. Soros? Yeah he is worse, that doesn't make Elon better just different issues. You are playing the same game the Intel community always plays that ends up blowing up down the line. Support Elon/Vivek to counter Soros. Support Sadaam to counter Iran. Support the Taliban to counter Russia. Support the Contras to counter Communist. Support South Viet Nam to counter North Viet Nam. Almost every issue we have can be traced back to the F-ed up logic.

Elon was golden until he started thinking he can operate without any oversight. Tesla was going under before Biden, it had high value and no profits. It took the Green New Deal to make money. You have it backwards Elon played until he didn't need them anymore and then the regs became binding. Then he went all conservative.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

those agencies regulating Tesla and SpaceX have people who should be criminally investigated and at minimum separated from service over abuse of office. Shortly after Musk announced his offer for Twitter, an alphabet soup of federal regulators launched investigations of Elon Musk, his offer, and his companies. It was one of the most blatant partisan abuse of office imaginable....a clear shot across his bow to back off or else.

That's why he and so many others of his type joined up with Trump. It wasn't an endorsement of MAGA. It was a sober recognition that the Republic had been corrupted by partisanship. And it most certainly has been.

---

Once again you guys compartmentalize to politics. You think Twitter is Musks end game? This is about space and energy, dictating the future direction, in this case for his benefit.

His space regulatory issues are more than political gamesmanship. Talk to the FAA and the unauthorized flights over residential areas. You say I am against Trump, which I am not, but are willing to give who you see worthy a pass. Sorry, when launching a rocket over residential areas the FAA needs to be involved. You and Musk want Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, when he wants it or you are a liberal Democrat waging war on poor mind-his-own business, only wants the well being of man Elon Musk. (Who single handily has us on an EV path and played a huge role in Bidens EV policies. ) Talk to the hydrogen people about Musk...

---

Non responsive. And in a way reinforces my point = Elon was a golden boy who could do no wrong as long as he was pulling his wagon in the Democrat train? But then he steps out of his lane? Boom. He's investigated on multiple levels. It's wrong. And he's not the only one to get such treatment. Look at Mark Andressen's comments on debanking. Hell, Melania and Barron Trump were debanked! Is that the kind of country you want to live in? "Don't get in the way of Democrat policy or you & yours will get debanked." Eff that, dude. That kinda stuff cannot stand in a free society. It cannot be tolerated, period. It's tyranny. You have to lop off fingers and digits when it happens or it seeps all the way into your own living room.

Elon is quite a bit more nuanced on EVs than you suggest. He's stated publicly they're not for everyone and has made comments supportive of backing off on subsidies.

Take a gander at what Soros is doing.
Elon is a badly needed counter-balance.

---

All true; however I doubt Elon will remain in Trump's orbit more than another 18 months.

The egos involved are huge and bound to clash.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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KaiBear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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KaiBear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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KaiBear said:

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Assassin said:

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Pam Bondi, AG from Florida is the new nominee

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Much better choice.

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Bad policy. When the next Democrat president is elected, will his AG prosecute the prosecutors who prosecute Biden's prosecutors. Bondi'd investigators will be investigated,. Lawfare never ends this way.

Pam Bondi, Trump's AG pick, said 'prosecutors will be prosecuted'
"The prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones," Bondi declared on Fox News in 2023, soon after Trump's fourth set of criminal charges. "The investigators will be investigated."
Bondi, a former Florida state attorney general, is drawing newfound attention since President-elect Trump announced his plans to nominate her to lead the Justice Department as U.S. attorney general.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/11/23/pam-bondi-doj-attorney-general-trump-pick/

---

you have it precisely backasswards.

It never ends if we do not have 2-3 perp walks for the most egregious examples of lawfare.

BOTH sides have fear the other. BOTH sides have to administer their days in power with the understanding that anything they do to the other side, the other side can do to them (the next time the other side wins an election). The devil on one shoulder whispering "do it" must be counterbalanced by the angel on the other whispering "would I want this done to me?"

Democrats moved so far outside of that structure that it suggested they were planning to never lose another election.

---

Committing bad policy vigorously doesn't transmute it into good policy. When Dems eventually come in they will prosecute your prosecutors & you'll be doing the perp walk

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Exactly how is NOT prosecuting someone who broke law because of their political affiliation bad policy?

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That's exactly what Dems will say in 2029 when the Republican perp walks begin

---

You seem content to pretend the Dems didn't begin this garbage.

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Not at all. I'd like to see it end, not escalate

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However you seem more intent on blaming Republicans for preventing future assaults …..rather than recognizing how the Dems began these lawfare attacks to being with.

Republicans have to respond .

---

I'm not blaming Republicans for future assaults, I'm just quoting them. They seem more intent on sending political opponents to prison and arguing about who won the 2020 election.

You guys have the wind at your backs and the confidence of much of the country. Don't blow it on the bright shiny objects.
Solve the border, drill baby drill, and back Musk/Vivek. Don't focus on distractions

---

If you ignore lawfare, it will escalate against you.
If you ignore crime, it will escalate against you.

No one is arguing for a prosecutional pogrom. Just accountability, to set examples = if you abuse federal office for partisan purposes, there will be a price. Vast majority of the punishments will be separation from service, with prejudice in the personnel file (thorough documentation of malfeasance to ensure \the next time Dems win an election they can't resurrect them as martyrs with an appointment to office.)

No one is arguing for accountability to be a shiny object. It can be a very orderly, dignified, deliberate process. And I expect it will be, at least for the Trump admin. It's the Democrats who will try to turn it into a shiny object, to make accountability look like retribution.

---

Patel said: "we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly."

From WSJ:
Kash Patel, the FBI and Retribution
The country doesn't want or need a GOP version of the Comey bureau.

The main concern is Mr. Patel's stated desire to use power in a second Trump term to seek revenge against Mr. Trump's opponents. Speaking on provocateur Steve Bannon's podcast in 2023, Mr. Patel said he'd follow "the facts and the law."
But he also said "we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly."
Mr. Bannon brings out the worst in people, but the Senate has an obligation to explore if this is what Mr. Patel really intends. As damaging as the FBI of Mr. Comey, Andrew McCabe and Peter Strzok was, special counsel Durham investigated the FBI actions and largely decided not to prosecute. Does Mr. Patel still want to unleash the FBI on Democrats and media criticsa la Hoover?
Down that road lies no end of political trouble for Republicans and the Trump Presidency, as the effort is sure to backfire. Voters didn't re-elect Mr. Trump to practice lawfare the way his opponents have. The country wants a bureau it can trust, not a Republican version of the Comey FBI.
Presidents deserve deference on the advisers they want, but the Senate plays a crucial role in weeding out bad choices. GOP Senators did Mr. Trump a favor by warning him about Matt Gaetz as AG. Law enforcement and security posts with their vast power deserve particular scrutiny, Mr. Patel included.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/kash-patel-the-fbi-and-retribution-politics-policy-nominee-33e9dc8c?mod=hp_opin_pos_0

All I hear is a bunch of liberal outlets saying:

'Oh poop. Please dont prosecute us. We'll uh, uh, we'll do it back to you even more.

We're so f***ed.'

KaiBear said:

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whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

those agencies regulating Tesla and SpaceX have people who should be criminally investigated and at minimum separated from service over abuse of office. Shortly after Musk announced his offer for Twitter, an alphabet soup of federal regulators launched investigations of Elon Musk, his offer, and his companies. It was one of the most blatant partisan abuse of office imaginable....a clear shot across his bow to back off or else.

That's why he and so many others of his type joined up with Trump. It wasn't an endorsement of MAGA. It was a sober recognition that the Republic had been corrupted by partisanship. And it most certainly has been.

---

Once again you guys compartmentalize to politics. You think Twitter is Musks end game? This is about space and energy, dictating the future direction, in this case for his benefit.

His space regulatory issues are more than political gamesmanship. Talk to the FAA and the unauthorized flights over residential areas. You say I am against Trump, which I am not, but are willing to give who you see worthy a pass. Sorry, when launching a rocket over residential areas the FAA needs to be involved. You and Musk want Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, when he wants it or you are a liberal Democrat waging war on poor mind-his-own business, only wants the well being of man Elon Musk. (Who single handily has us on an EV path and played a huge role in Bidens EV policies. ) Talk to the hydrogen people about Musk...

---

Non responsive. And in a way reinforces my point = Elon was a golden boy who could do no wrong as long as he was pulling his wagon in the Democrat train? But then he steps out of his lane? Boom. He's investigated on multiple levels. It's wrong. And he's not the only one to get such treatment. Look at Mark Andressen's comments on debanking. Hell, Melania and Barron Trump were debanked! Is that the kind of country you want to live in? "Don't get in the way of Democrat policy or you & yours will get debanked." Eff that, dude. That kinda stuff cannot stand in a free society. It cannot be tolerated, period. It's tyranny. You have to lop off fingers and digits when it happens or it seeps all the way into your own living room.

Elon is quite a bit more nuanced on EVs than you suggest. He's stated publicly they're not for everyone and has made comments supportive of backing off on subsidies.

Take a gander at what Soros is doing.
Elon is a badly needed counter-balance.

---

All true; however I doubt Elon will remain in Trump's orbit more than another 18 months.

The egos involved are huge and bound to clash.

---

Good point. Question is what does he get before he goes away?

4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Pam Bondi, AG from Florida is the new nominee

---

Much better choice.

---

Bad policy. When the next Democrat president is elected, will his AG prosecute the prosecutors who prosecute Biden's prosecutors. Bondi'd investigators will be investigated,. Lawfare never ends this way.

Pam Bondi, Trump's AG pick, said 'prosecutors will be prosecuted'
"The prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones," Bondi declared on Fox News in 2023, soon after Trump's fourth set of criminal charges. "The investigators will be investigated."
Bondi, a former Florida state attorney general, is drawing newfound attention since President-elect Trump announced his plans to nominate her to lead the Justice Department as U.S. attorney general.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/11/23/pam-bondi-doj-attorney-general-trump-pick/

---

you have it precisely backasswards.

It never ends if we do not have 2-3 perp walks for the most egregious examples of lawfare.

BOTH sides have fear the other. BOTH sides have to administer their days in power with the understanding that anything they do to the other side, the other side can do to them (the next time the other side wins an election). The devil on one shoulder whispering "do it" must be counterbalanced by the angel on the other whispering "would I want this done to me?"

Democrats moved so far outside of that structure that it suggested they were planning to never lose another election.

---

Committing bad policy vigorously doesn't transmute it into good policy. When Dems eventually come in they will prosecute your prosecutors & you'll be doing the perp walk

---

Exactly how is NOT prosecuting someone who broke law because of their political affiliation bad policy?

---

That's exactly what Dems will say in 2029 when the Republican perp walks begin

---

You seem content to pretend the Dems didn't begin this garbage.

---

Not at all. I'd like to see it end, not escalate

---

However you seem more intent on blaming Republicans for preventing future assaults …..rather than recognizing how the Dems began these lawfare attacks to being with.

Republicans have to respond .

---

I'm not blaming Republicans for future assaults, I'm just quoting them. They seem more intent on sending political opponents to prison and arguing about who won the 2020 election.

You guys have the wind at your backs and the confidence of much of the country. Don't blow it on the bright shiny objects.
Solve the border, drill baby drill, and back Musk/Vivek. Don't focus on distractions

---

If you ignore lawfare, it will escalate against you.
If you ignore crime, it will escalate against you.

No one is arguing for a prosecutional pogrom. Just accountability, to set examples = if you abuse federal office for partisan purposes, there will be a price. Vast majority of the punishments will be separation from service, with prejudice in the personnel file (thorough documentation of malfeasance to ensure \the next time Dems win an election they can't resurrect them as martyrs with an appointment to office.)

No one is arguing for accountability to be a shiny object. It can be a very orderly, dignified, deliberate process. And I expect it will be, at least for the Trump admin. It's the Democrats who will try to turn it into a shiny object, to make accountability look like retribution.

---

Patel said: "we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly."

From WSJ:
Kash Patel, the FBI and Retribution
The country doesn't want or need a GOP version of the Comey bureau.

The main concern is Mr. Patel's stated desire to use power in a second Trump term to seek revenge against Mr. Trump's opponents. Speaking on provocateur Steve Bannon's podcast in 2023, Mr. Patel said he'd follow "the facts and the law."
But he also said "we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government, but in the media. Yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. We're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly."
Mr. Bannon brings out the worst in people, but the Senate has an obligation to explore if this is what Mr. Patel really intends. As damaging as the FBI of Mr. Comey, Andrew McCabe and Peter Strzok was, special counsel Durham investigated the FBI actions and largely decided not to prosecute. Does Mr. Patel still want to unleash the FBI on Democrats and media criticsa la Hoover?
Down that road lies no end of political trouble for Republicans and the Trump Presidency, as the effort is sure to backfire. Voters didn't re-elect Mr. Trump to practice lawfare the way his opponents have. The country wants a bureau it can trust, not a Republican version of the Comey FBI.
Presidents deserve deference on the advisers they want, but the Senate plays a crucial role in weeding out bad choices. GOP Senators did Mr. Trump a favor by warning him about Matt Gaetz as AG. Law enforcement and security posts with their vast power deserve particular scrutiny, Mr. Patel included.
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/kash-patel-the-fbi-and-retribution-politics-policy-nominee-33e9dc8c?mod=hp_opin_pos_0

---

"we are gonna go after people who lied to the american public"

Oso be like oh nos! Dont go after the people who lied to the American public..

Where was this outrage when Alex Jones was prosecuted for his part in sandy hook? That was ok but going after media lying now isnt ok?

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Just not at the expense of running the Nation. We can't have 4 more years of this BS. Go after the Cartels, go after organized crime. Shut the border. Go after Cyper crime and attacks. Don't waste 4 years on Joy Reid and her ilk.

The judicial double standard must end. The rule of law demands that everyone be treated equally under our legal system. The Dems insisted no one was above the law while preening with false moral superiority about Biden promising not to pardon Hunter while Trump was a "convicted felon." We all know how the Hunter situation ended. So far, Trump hasn't gotten justice, only delays. All of those cases against him were obviously manipulations, deceptions, & frauds. The judge in New York has postponed the sentencing on his convictions (for non crimes, no evidence, & a rigged trial) so that he cannot appeal. They know that he will easily win the appeal because of all the violations of basic norms and his constitution all rights. So the fascists are continuing to pervert justice for their political agenda. And Trump is only one example. The J6 show trials, all the Christian's persecuted by the FBI for being pro life, the Catholics spied on for liking the Latin mass, & numerous other idiotic tyrannies. Then there are the many crimes of the Biden family criminal syndicate, the Russia Russia Russia collusion hoax, the Hunter's laptop lies, numerous example of election tampering or outright fraud, etc.

This is why the DoJ & the FBI must be under new management and they must investigate & prosecute all these crimes.

I will never forget the day these two FBI agents came to my house in an attempt to intimidate me into silence.

I was a nurse working in an endocrine gender clinic for three years at Texas Children’s Hospital. I blew the whistle to expose how the hospital was illegally billing… https://t.co/S9LDLz9Zt6

— Vanessa Sivadge (@V_Sivadge) December 2, 2024

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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those agencies regulating Tesla and SpaceX have people who should be criminally investigated and at minimum separated from service over abuse of office. Shortly after Musk announced his offer for Twitter, an alphabet soup of federal regulators launched investigations of Elon Musk, his offer, and his companies. It was one of the most blatant partisan abuse of office imaginable....a clear shot across his bow to back off or else.

That's why he and so many others of his type joined up with Trump. It wasn't an endorsement of MAGA. It was a sober recognition that the Republic had been corrupted by partisanship. And it most certainly has been.

---

Once again you guys compartmentalize to politics. You think Twitter is Musks end game? This is about space and energy, dictating the future direction, in this case for his benefit.

His space regulatory issues are more than political gamesmanship. Talk to the FAA and the unauthorized flights over residential areas. You say I am against Trump, which I am not, but are willing to give who you see worthy a pass. Sorry, when launching a rocket over residential areas the FAA needs to be involved. You and Musk want Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, when he wants it or you are a liberal Democrat waging war on poor mind-his-own business, only wants the well being of man Elon Musk. (Who single handily has us on an EV path and played a huge role in Bidens EV policies. ) Talk to the hydrogen people about Musk...

---

Non responsive. And in a way reinforces my point = Elon was a golden boy who could do no wrong as long as he was pulling his wagon in the Democrat train? But then he steps out of his lane? Boom. He's investigated on multiple levels. It's wrong. And he's not the only one to get such treatment. Look at Mark Andressen's comments on debanking. Hell, Melania and Barron Trump were debanked! Is that the kind of country you want to live in? "Don't get in the way of Democrat policy or you & yours will get debanked." Eff that, dude. That kinda stuff cannot stand in a free society. It cannot be tolerated, period. It's tyranny. You have to lop off fingers and digits when it happens or it seeps all the way into your own living room.

Elon is quite a bit more nuanced on EVs than you suggest. He's stated publicly they're not for everyone and has made comments supportive of backing off on subsidies.

Take a gander at what Soros is doing.
Elon is a badly needed counter-balance.

---

You keep mixing issues. Soros? Yeah he is worse, that doesn't make Elon better just different issues.
I didn't mix them. They're already mixed.

You are playing the same game the Intel community always plays that ends up blowing up down the line. Support Elon/Vivek to counter Soros. Support Sadaam to counter Iran. Support the Taliban to counter Russia. Support the Contras to counter Communist. Support South Viet Nam to counter North Viet Nam. Almost every issue we have can be traced back to the F-ed up logic.
I didn't play Elon to balance Soros. Elon did. he lost a son to transgenderism. he saw how the administrative state was destructive to economic growth. And he experienced first hand how the admin state could be used against anyone who got in the way of Democrat agendas. And yes, you do support USSR to stop Hitler, then deal with USSR afterwards. Of course you give aid to Saddam to destabilize the mullah regime in Teheran. If we'd have done more, maybe Saddam would have been kept in check by having to manage 90m Farsi speakers and Iran would not be nearly nuclear capable + dumping billions into proxy armies all over the middle east (or shipping drones to Russia).

Dude, you have to engage in these things, or you're just deferring to the agendas of others.

Elon was golden until he started thinking he can operate without any oversight.
Thinking that regulations are stifling the economy is hardly crackpottery. It's a serious problem. Reagan slashed regs. Trump slashed regs. And still the regs grew BACK!

Tesla was going under before Biden, it had high value and no profits. It took the Green New Deal to make money.
Flatly at odds with history. Tesla is hardly unique among innovative startups in taking a few years to turn a profit, which it did in 2011. It had its first four successive quarterly profits in 2020, under the Trump admin. Yes, its growth exploded under the GND, but that success was a DECADE in the making. \
Elon was a hundred-millionaire before Tesla, ya know. And SpaceX & other investments make some money, too....

You have it backwards Elon played until he didn't need them anymore and then the regs became binding. Then he went all conservative.
So a Democrat switches support to a decidedly non-ideological Republican and all of a sudden he "went all conservative?"

---

I support Elon because I see someone who shares my views that classical liberalism was under severe assault, particularly free speech. he didn't buy Twitter as a pure investment opportunity. Thing was losing money and he overpaid for it. He did it because he understood the free marketplace of ideas was at risk of dying out, and that there should be upside for a company which became the "town square" for free speech. He was correct. When it became clear to me that he was running the company for that purpose, I subscribed to support him. you should too. Twitter is a badly needed counterbalance to legacy alphabet media enterprises (LAME). He took a big risk, for principle as much as profits. He should indeed be rewarded for that with profits. Note what he did with job cuts, drastic transformations of the model.......and today, X is the5th most visited website in the world & making money. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have 10% that kind of improvement in the federal government? What's the harm in trying? It's not like agencies and regulations don't grow inexorably, don't have an unblemished record of surviving every administration ever elected into office!

I'm sure I'll disagree with him on some stuff. That's ok. Redbrick is a full of it as the proverbial Christmas goose on Ukraine, but we agree on a lot of other important stuff. You take the good with the bad in an alliance. Then you work on the bad to get it closer to good. Germany doesn't ever pay its full NATO dues, but it's kinda hard to have a Nato without them, so you just keep grinding on them to pay up. Like Reagan and Trump did..... Everybody thought Trump as trying to kill Nato. But he got them better prepared for 2022. He was savaged for beating up on Germany about Nordstream pipelines. Look where they are today.

If you don't beat up institutions, institutions will beat up you.

And perhaps many in the lower ranks.

whiterock said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I will never forget the day these two FBI agents came to my house in an attempt to intimidate me into silence.

I was a nurse working in an endocrine gender clinic for three years at Texas Children’s Hospital. I blew the whistle to expose how the hospital was illegally billing… https://t.co/S9LDLz9Zt6

— Vanessa Sivadge (@V_Sivadge) December 2, 2024

---

FBI investigated parents for speaking out at school board meetings, investigated (and got prosecuted) pro-lifers for peaceful protests at abortion clinics, listed Catholics as religious extremists, and on and on......

FBI needs 100% replacement of top command structure. (as does DOJ).

---

You are tearing down the institutions!!!!

Exactly what is needed!

Those institutions are so corrupt & evil they need tearing down. Many should not be replaced.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

---

those agencies regulating Tesla and SpaceX have people who should be criminally investigated and at minimum separated from service over abuse of office. Shortly after Musk announced his offer for Twitter, an alphabet soup of federal regulators launched investigations of Elon Musk, his offer, and his companies. It was one of the most blatant partisan abuse of office imaginable....a clear shot across his bow to back off or else.

That's why he and so many others of his type joined up with Trump. It wasn't an endorsement of MAGA. It was a sober recognition that the Republic had been corrupted by partisanship. And it most certainly has been.

---

Once again you guys compartmentalize to politics. You think Twitter is Musks end game? This is about space and energy, dictating the future direction, in this case for his benefit.

His space regulatory issues are more than political gamesmanship. Talk to the FAA and the unauthorized flights over residential areas. You say I am against Trump, which I am not, but are willing to give who you see worthy a pass. Sorry, when launching a rocket over residential areas the FAA needs to be involved. You and Musk want Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, when he wants it or you are a liberal Democrat waging war on poor mind-his-own business, only wants the well being of man Elon Musk. (Who single handily has us on an EV path and played a huge role in Bidens EV policies. ) Talk to the hydrogen people about Musk...

---

Non responsive. And in a way reinforces my point = Elon was a golden boy who could do no wrong as long as he was pulling his wagon in the Democrat train? But then he steps out of his lane? Boom. He's investigated on multiple levels. It's wrong. And he's not the only one to get such treatment. Look at Mark Andressen's comments on debanking. Hell, Melania and Barron Trump were debanked! Is that the kind of country you want to live in? "Don't get in the way of Democrat policy or you & yours will get debanked." Eff that, dude. That kinda stuff cannot stand in a free society. It cannot be tolerated, period. It's tyranny. You have to lop off fingers and digits when it happens or it seeps all the way into your own living room.

Elon is quite a bit more nuanced on EVs than you suggest. He's stated publicly they're not for everyone and has made comments supportive of backing off on subsidies.

Take a gander at what Soros is doing.
Elon is a badly needed counter-balance.

---

You keep mixing issues. Soros? Yeah he is worse, that doesn't make Elon better just different issues.
I didn't mix them. They're already mixed.

You are playing the same game the Intel community always plays that ends up blowing up down the line. Support Elon/Vivek to counter Soros. Support Sadaam to counter Iran. Support the Taliban to counter Russia. Support the Contras to counter Communist. Support South Viet Nam to counter North Viet Nam. Almost every issue we have can be traced back to the F-ed up logic.
I didn't play Elon to balance Soros. Elon did. he lost a son to transgenderism. he saw how the administrative state was destructive to economic growth. And he experienced first hand how the admin state could be used against anyone who got in the way of Democrat agendas. And yes, you do support USSR to stop Hitler, then deal with USSR afterwards. Of course you give aid to Saddam to destabilize the mullah regime in Teheran. If we'd have done more, maybe Saddam would have been kept in check by having to manage 90m Farsi speakers and Iran would not be nearly nuclear capable + dumping billions into proxy armies all over the middle east (or shipping drones to Russia).

Dude, you have to engage in these things, or you're just deferring to the agendas of others.

Elon was golden until he started thinking he can operate without any oversight.
Thinking that regulations are stifling the economy is hardly crackpottery. It's a serious problem. Reagan slashed regs. Trump slashed regs. And still the regs grew BACK!

Tesla was going under before Biden, it had high value and no profits. It took the Green New Deal to make money.
Flatly at odds with history. Tesla is hardly unique among innovative startups in taking a few years to turn a profit, which it did in 2011. It had its first four successive quarterly profits in 2020, under the Trump admin. Yes, its growth exploded under the GND, but that success was a DECADE in the making. \
Elon was a hundred-millionaire before Tesla, ya know. And SpaceX & other investments make some money, too....

You have it backwards Elon played until he didn't need them anymore and then the regs became binding. Then he went all conservative.
So a Democrat switches support to a decidedly non-ideological Republican and all of a sudden he "went all conservative?"

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I support Elon because I see someone who shares my views that classical liberalism was under severe assault, particularly free speech. he didn't buy Twitter as a pure investment opportunity. Thing was losing money and he overpaid for it. He did it because he understood the free marketplace of ideas was at risk of dying out, and that there should be upside for a company which became the "town square" for free speech. He was correct. When it became clear to me that he was running the company for that purpose, I subscribed to support him. you should too. Twitter is a badly needed counterbalance to legacy alphabet media enterprises (LAME). He took a big risk, for principle as much as profits. He should indeed be rewarded for that with profits. Note what he did with job cuts, drastic transformations of the model.......and today, X is the5th most visited website in the world & making money. Wouldn't it be nice if we could have 10% that kind of improvement in the federal government? What's the harm in trying? It's not like agencies and regulations don't grow inexorably, don't have an unblemished record of surviving every administration ever elected into office!

I'm sure I'll disagree with him on some stuff. That's ok. Redbrick is a full of it as the proverbial Christmas goose on Ukraine, but we agree on a lot of other important stuff. You take the good with the bad in an alliance. Then you work on the bad to get it closer to good. Germany doesn't ever pay its full NATO dues, but it's kinda hard to have a Nato without them, so you just keep grinding on them to pay up. Like Reagan and Trump did..... Everybody thought Trump as trying to kill Nato. But he got them better prepared for 2022. He was savaged for beating up on Germany about Nordstream pipelines. Look where they are today.

If you don't beat up institutions, institutions will beat up you.

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I am not against reform, I am against reform the way Vivek talks about reform. I am sick of high level platitudes and generalities. What are you cutting? Let's hear specifics? If you are talking relaxing or eliminating air quality and water quality? I am not there. If you are talking looking at the Agencies on the GAO Wasteful Department list, go for it. As long as there is a transparent rational methodology. Odd number SSN, is not rational.

If you are outside of the organization, how can you be specific about cuts until you've been given the opportunity to do some digging?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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If you are outside of the organization, how can you be specific about cuts until you've been given the opportunity to do some digging?

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Well, I expect more than we can cut 50% and no one will know from people with real responsibility and will impact people's lives...

You seem to want to err on the side of caution when making cuts.

I think most of us are tired of that. We would be very okay with going too far by mistake and having to add a little back later on, once we've realized the mistake.

Acting like someone that loses a government job is akin to losing their life is a mistake... They can go get a job in the private sector just like all the rest of us. No taxpayer dollar should ever be spent just so some government person can keep their job. Ever.

I don't think Patel can get confirmed. It is Trump nominating folks that have been staunchly loyal to him. I think Trump knows Patel, just like ole Matt have a long row to how to get confirmed. He has someone else in his back pocket like Bondy.

Married A Horn said:

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You seem to want to err on the side of caution when making cuts.

I think most of us are tired of that. We would be very okay with going too far by mistake and having to add a little back later on, once we've realized the mistake.

Acting like someone that loses a government job is akin to losing their life is a mistake... They can go get a job in the private sector just like all the rest of us. No taxpayer dollar should ever be spent just so some government person can keep their job. Ever.

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Disagree, any time you make a decision that will impact somebody's life should be done with caution. Most of the people you are talking about have nothing to do with politics and have done nothing but do their job. So, yeah I err on the side of caution before I take somebodies livelihood. Not to mention what the jobs being eliminated will do to our ability to operate. These are not light, let's play a game decisions.

Right. We disagree.

Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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Its unlikely. Im self employed - run my own business. Have a secretary.

FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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You seem to want to err on the side of caution when making cuts.

I think most of us are tired of that. We would be very okay with going too far by mistake and having to add a little back later on, once we've realized the mistake.

Acting like someone that loses a government job is akin to losing their life is a mistake... They can go get a job in the private sector just like all the rest of us. No taxpayer dollar should ever be spent just so some government person can keep their job. Ever.

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Disagree, any time you make a decision that will impact somebody's life should be done with caution. Most of the people you are talking about have nothing to do with politics and have done nothing but do their job. So, yeah I err on the side of caution before I take somebodies livelihood. Not to mention what the jobs being eliminated will do to our ability to operate. These are not light, let's play a game decisions.

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Cut the pork
Cut the unethical crap

When it's
Agenda vs Truth
Who wins?

I fully expect some Ds and Rs to be brought down when the lights are turned on and the covers thrown back. There's going to be some sudden and unexpected retirements at many levels.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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You seem to want to err on the side of caution when making cuts.

I think most of us are tired of that. We would be very okay with going too far by mistake and having to add a little back later on, once we've realized the mistake.

Acting like someone that loses a government job is akin to losing their life is a mistake... They can go get a job in the private sector just like all the rest of us. No taxpayer dollar should ever be spent just so some government person can keep their job. Ever.

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Disagree, any time you make a decision that will impact somebody's life should be done with caution. Most of the people you are talking about have nothing to do with politics and have done nothing but do their job. So, yeah I err on the side of caution before I take somebodies livelihood. Not to mention what the jobs being eliminated will do to our ability to operate. These are not light, let's play a game decisions.

---

Cut the pork
Cut the unethical crap

When it's
Agenda vs Truth
Who wins?

I fully expect some Ds and Rs to be brought down when the lights are turned on and the covers thrown back. There's going to be some sudden and unexpected retirements at many levels.

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There is a federal regulation requiring carpet to be priced by the square foot.

Far too many people are unaware how many totally irrelevant laws/rules/regs are on the books. We could easily cut code book in half and not substantially harm a dampened thing, while saving hundreds of billions of dollars.

FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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You seriously expect me to feel bad because a government drone loses the gravy gig?

Nope.

Married A Horn said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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Its unlikely. Im self employed - run my own business. Have a secretary.

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Ooops, now he'll want your Secretary to answer questions before being 'confirmed'.

Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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You seriously expect me to feel bad because a government drone loses the gravy gig?

Nope.

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Exactly. Bleeding heart liberalism - downfall of the nation.

Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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You seriously expect me to feel bad because a government drone loses the gravy gig?

Nope.

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Gravy gig? You guys are laughable. So, all these people have gravy gigs? Most work much harder than many of Baylor's trust funders ever have.

FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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You seriously expect me to feel bad because a government drone loses the gravy gig?

Nope.

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Gravy gig? You guys are laughable. So, all these people have gravy gigs? Most work much harder than many of Baylor's trust funders ever have.

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yeah, but harder at what?.......

Seriously, though, you do have some good work ethic in some agencies. I did 60-70 hrs a week abroad. Military is similarly mission oriented. But that is not the norm......

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Right. We disagree.

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Well, I hope you get to experience what it is like to lose your livelihood because your SSN is odd... Or, more likely it will not affect you, so who cares...

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You seriously expect me to feel bad because a government drone loses the gravy gig?

Nope.

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Gravy gig? You guys are laughable. So, all these people have gravy gigs? Most work much harder than many of Baylor's trust funders ever have.

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yeah, but harder at what?.......

Seriously, though, you do have some good work ethic in some agencies. I did 60-70 hrs a week abroad. Military is similarly mission oriented. But that is not the norm......

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Anything that has an Ops component, keeps the Nation moving or safe usually have passionate people that do it because they like it and are dedicated. Private or Public. It is the nature of the beast.

As I said, my experience is in infrastructure. The Agencies I work with take it very seriously and hours do not matter. Some of the best managed projects I have worked on are USDOT. I don't know if you would consider regulations, but the level of documentation, change logs and audits exceed any private sector. My son is Maritime, they take it serious too.

The Ops guys are the most dedicated as many Traffic MGT Ctrs are 24/7, mostly State for those. You have a bridge hit at 2 in morning those guys are out there. The Emergency MGT guys work insane hours too. I am sure there are those that skate, like anything else.