A good bit of the 238bn goes to aid for students. Administering that takes manpower, but obviously the department has a ton of bloat and should be trimmed down. Of course you could also force states to administer it, and have hardly any at the federal level, just a few employees for oversight.

How much tax money in education is spent on education and non-education?

Assassin said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Assassin said:

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WS6bear said:

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This idea that student loans or forgiveness is buying votes is incredibly lazy and stupid. It's an investment in your population. Completing higher education leads to higher paying jobs, more competitive work environment, healthier families and kids, longer lives, etc. Combine all that and the end result is a stronger economy, stronger global leadership, less government spending on healthcare and other entitlements, less of the population reliant on social security and welfare, and countless other benefits. These things are proven.

Are there people gaming the system? Of course. Are they people getting pointless degrees with no job prospects? Totally. That doesn't change the fact that a large majority of those completing secondary education are contributing much more to the country than those who do not - including those who complete community college, trade schools, and even apprenticeships.

---

that is a pretty bizarre post. How exactly is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loan leads making any of this stuff better? I say, get a part time job like I had in college, even though I was on a football scholarship. Get out there and get a job after you get out, and stop living in Mom's basement.

How is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loans result is " a stronger economy, stronger global leadership, less government spending on healthcare and other entitlements, less of the population reliant on social security and welfare, and countless other benefits."

How is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loans is an investment in the population? Moreso it's an investment in teaching kids that they can get free stuff if they elect the folks that give away other people's money like it's nothing.

Forgiveness of student debt has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

---

I am for directed aid based on need of the Nation. Military gets student loans paid off upon enlistment, STEM, and even public service (pay 10 years and work in approved Agency). But it has to be a quid pro quo, not free.

For me it goes back to the interest rate thing, you pay 10 years you paid back principle plus. Education should not be a profit center for the Govt, as Trump said. Train people, let them pay off at cost and/or have them work in areas of need. No problem. This neverending interest payment is BS.

---

I would have no problem paying the loans if they enlisted once their education was finished.

As for longterm, I have no issue with Student loans, but I have an issue with the government paying those loans off instead of using the money where it is needed.

Good point on the interest. But they must make the correct payments for their loan, otherwise it reverts to retro interest from the date of the loan. If they default on their loan, there must be severe penalties unless there is a national issue that prevents them from working. Such as businesses shutting down for Covid. Getting laid off buys you X amount of days to get another job - or enlist.

---

Well I know Public Service Loan Forgiveness required 10 years of payments and 10 year working in public service (usually at much lower wages than Private sector). Only change was 10 years of payments from not missing or being ng late for 10 consecutive years. If you were one day late 10 years started over. Only 2% qualified over 40 years. Biden changed that. I had no issue with it, 10 years is a long time. Supreme court upheld that because Congress established. But, that was one I thought worked out well.

FLBear5630 said:

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Assassin said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

WS6bear said:

---

This idea that student loans or forgiveness is buying votes is incredibly lazy and stupid. It's an investment in your population. Completing higher education leads to higher paying jobs, more competitive work environment, healthier families and kids, longer lives, etc. Combine all that and the end result is a stronger economy, stronger global leadership, less government spending on healthcare and other entitlements, less of the population reliant on social security and welfare, and countless other benefits. These things are proven.

Are there people gaming the system? Of course. Are they people getting pointless degrees with no job prospects? Totally. That doesn't change the fact that a large majority of those completing secondary education are contributing much more to the country than those who do not - including those who complete community college, trade schools, and even apprenticeships.

---

that is a pretty bizarre post. How exactly is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loan leads making any of this stuff better? I say, get a part time job like I had in college, even though I was on a football scholarship. Get out there and get a job after you get out, and stop living in Mom's basement.

How is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loans result is " a stronger economy, stronger global leadership, less government spending on healthcare and other entitlements, less of the population reliant on social security and welfare, and countless other benefits."

How is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loans is an investment in the population? Moreso it's an investment in teaching kids that they can get free stuff if they elect the folks that give away other people's money like it's nothing.

Forgiveness of student debt has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

---

I am for directed aid based on need of the Nation. Military gets student loans paid off upon enlistment, STEM, and even public service (pay 10 years and work in approved Agency). But it has to be a quid pro quo, not free.

For me it goes back to the interest rate thing, you pay 10 years you paid back principle plus. Education should not be a profit center for the Govt, as Trump said. Train people, let them pay off at cost and/or have them work in areas of need. No problem. This neverending interest payment is BS.

---

I would have no problem paying the loans if they enlisted once their education was finished.

As for longterm, I have no issue with Student loans, but I have an issue with the government paying those loans off instead of using the money where it is needed.

Good point on the interest. But they must make the correct payments for their loan, otherwise it reverts to retro interest from the date of the loan. If they default on their loan, there must be severe penalties unless there is a national issue that prevents them from working. Such as businesses shutting down for Covid. Getting laid off buys you X amount of days to get another job - or enlist.

---

Well I know Public Service Loan Forgiveness required 10 years of payments and 10 year working in public service (usually at much lower wages than Private sector). Only change was 10 years of payments from not missing or being ng late for 10 consecutive years. If you were one day late 10 years started over. Only 2% qualified over 40 years. Biden changed that. I had no issue with it, 10 years is a long time. Supreme court upheld that because Congress established. But, that was one I thought worked out well.

---

Thanks for the input. I guarantee I would have been one of the 98%... thank goodness for auto pay today!

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Assassin said:

---

WS6bear said:

---

This idea that student loans or forgiveness is buying votes is incredibly lazy and stupid. It's an investment in your population. Completing higher education leads to higher paying jobs, more competitive work environment, healthier families and kids, longer lives, etc. Combine all that and the end result is a stronger economy, stronger global leadership, less government spending on healthcare and other entitlements, less of the population reliant on social security and welfare, and countless other benefits. These things are proven.

Are there people gaming the system? Of course. Are they people getting pointless degrees with no job prospects? Totally. That doesn't change the fact that a large majority of those completing secondary education are contributing much more to the country than those who do not - including those who complete community college, trade schools, and even apprenticeships.

---

that is a pretty bizarre post. How exactly is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loan leads making any of this stuff better? I say, get a part time job like I had in college, even though I was on a football scholarship. Get out there and get a job after you get out, and stop living in Mom's basement.

How is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loans result is " a stronger economy, stronger global leadership, less government spending on healthcare and other entitlements, less of the population reliant on social security and welfare, and countless other benefits."

How is it "proven" that the government paying off your student loans is an investment in the population? Moreso it's an investment in teaching kids that they can get free stuff if they elect the folks that give away other people's money like it's nothing.

Forgiveness of student debt has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

---

I am for directed aid based on need of the Nation. Military gets student loans paid off upon enlistment, STEM, and even public service (pay 10 years and work in approved Agency). But it has to be a quid pro quo, not free.

For me it goes back to the interest rate thing, you pay 10 years you paid back principle plus. Education should not be a profit center for the Govt, as Trump said. Train people, let them pay off at cost and/or have them work in areas of need. No problem. This neverending interest payment is BS.

---

I would have no problem paying the loans if they enlisted once their education was finished.

As for longterm, I have no issue with Student loans, but I have an issue with the government paying those loans off instead of using the money where it is needed.

Good point on the interest. But they must make the correct payments for their loan, otherwise it reverts to retro interest from the date of the loan. If they default on their loan, there must be severe penalties unless there is a national issue that prevents them from working. Such as businesses shutting down for Covid. Getting laid off buys you X amount of days to get another job - or enlist.

---

Well I know Public Service Loan Forgiveness required 10 years of payments and 10 year working in public service (usually at much lower wages than Private sector). Only change was 10 years of payments from not missing or being ng late for 10 consecutive years. If you were one day late 10 years started over. Only 2% qualified over 40 years. Biden changed that. I had no issue with it, 10 years is a long time. Supreme court upheld that because Congress established. But, that was one I thought worked out well.

---

Thanks for the input. I guarantee I would have been one of the 98%... thank goodness for auto pay today!

---

Me too. I helped alot of engineers get their PEs and stuff like this. It is amazing how smart people sometimes can't figure processes out, especially coming from other Nations.

https://www.wmar2news.com/local/what-it-would-look-like-if-the-department-of-education-was-eliminated-as-trump-has-promised

What it would look like if the Department of Education was eliminated, as Trump has promised

By: Elizabeth Worthington

BALTIMORE Some of the first questions that were brought up after President-Elect Donald Trump made his desires clearto get Washington's influence out of schools and hand control over to the statesincluded:

What happens to special education funding? Or Title I funding for low-income families? What about enforcing civil rights in schools? Those are all things the Department of Education oversees right now, a department the president-elect wants to eliminate. The decision isn't only up to Trump. Congress would have to repeal the law that created the department back in 1979.

"I think that there's a lot of fear-mongering about what it would mean," Tim Villegas with the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education told us. "In the short term, if the Department of Education is dismantled, all of that funding would probably just go somewhere else and be administered somewhere else in the federal government."

For example, the department's Office of Civil Rights, which enforces things like Title IX protections against sex discrimination in schools, could be housed under the Department of Justice.

Villegas' organization is primarily concerned with making sure students with special needs continue to be protected under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), which provides federal funding for the education of children with disabilities.

"Congress still has to appropriate those funds, and IDEA has never been funded at the 40% that it was promised. It's only ever reached 14 or 15% at the most. Our fear, if we do have any, is that it's possible those funds could be zeroed out. But there's no indication that this administration would actually do that."

Dr. Jade Wexler from the University of Maryland explains how IDEA, Title I under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), and other fundamental education laws are independent of the department.

"They're separate laws that were created by Congress that are not eliminated even if the Department of Education is eliminated, as long as Congress continues to appropriate money for these different programs."

Those laws actually predate the Department of Education, which was established in 1979. Before that, there was the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, or the "HEW." Dr. Philip Burke, a professor of special education in Maryland, used to work in that department and saw how education was handled by the federal government back then.

"Frankly, it got very little attention. The "e" in HEW was a very tiny "e," not capitalized at all. It was a very small part of a big agency which controls Social Security, eventually Medicare […] When it got moved into the Department of Education, it gave much more visibility, which is a good thing."

Still, even today, the federal government typically only provides about 10% of a state's school funding.

"Even if all federal fundingpoof, just went awaythere will still be funds available for learners with disabilities, assuming that they would honor the federal guidelines in the law," Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education said.

What is concerning to some is the potential to lose the oversight of the federal government. The Department of Education measures states' compliance with laws like IDEA, which was originally created because states were historically not serving students with disabilities properly.

If the department were to be eliminated, "They [the states] don't have any or they have minimal accountability. So then there's uneven accountability across the states," Dr. Wexler explained.

"If left to other agencies or states, they do not have experience in doing the work of making sure that our girls can participate in sports, that our students have equal access and equitable access to the programs they need. We don't want those important Title IX and Title I protections to be handed off or to go away," Paul Lemle, the president of the Maryland State Education Association, the state's largest teachers union, said.

Lemle also worries that any perceived threat to the public education system could hurt efforts to bring more teachers into the field. He says there are about 120,000 job openings in public education right now.

"When we're talking about kicking our programs and our schools around like political footballs, we really undermine confidence in our public schools," "Lemle said. "We want people to know what a great job it is. The attacks make it much harder."

But something that the experts we talked to say should reassure educators and families is the fact that laws like IDEA and ESEA historically have had bipartisan support.

"Anything can happen, but it's unlikely they would want to reduce the amount of money going into that," Dr. Wexler said.

"We love our jobs; we love our kids. We think that sentiment is shared across the aisle," Lemle said.

Still, many, including Dr. Burke, believe it would be a "huge mistake" to get rid of the department.

"If you really look at what goes on around the world, every country has figured out that education represents its future. In other words, the ability of its workforce to be well-educated, to actually be able to participate in government, to be successful economicallythey really see education as a major investment. I think that one of the tools they use to be able to have a role in that, is to have major federal agency as part of government," Dr. Burke told WMAR-2 News. "All major industrial countries have the equivalent of a Department of Education. It may not be called that, but basically there's a central role for education in the central government, which, I think, is really critical for the success of a nation, to be honest with you."

Another big part of this conversation is about the culture in schools, especially by way of the curriculum. The Department of Education doesn't determine what schools can and can't teach; it's actually against the law to do so under the 1965 Elementary and Secondary Education Act. It's up to individual states and local school boards.

For example, even with the Common Core, those standards were adopted independently by each state. The Obama administration at the time just incentivized it by offering grants to states that implemented Common Core, so there can be some indirect influence from the federal government, but it cannot directly control a school's curriculum.

boognish_bear said:

---

https://www.wmar2news.com/local/what-it-would-look-like-if-the-department-of-education-was-eliminated-as-trump-has-promised

What it would look like if the Department of Education was eliminated, as Trump has promised

By: Elizabeth Worthington

BALTIMORE Some of the first questions that were brought up after President-Elect Donald Trump made his desires clearto get Washington's influence out of schools and hand control over to the statesincluded:

What happens to special education funding? Or Title I funding for low-income families? What about enforcing civil rights in schools? Those are all things the Department of Education oversees right now, a department the president-elect wants to eliminate. The decision isn't only up to Trump. Congress would have to repeal the law that created the department back in 1979.

"I think that there's a lot of fear-mongering about what it would mean," Tim Villegas with the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education told us. "In the short term, if the Department of Education is dismantled, all of that funding would probably just go somewhere else and be administered somewhere else in the federal government."

For example, the department's Office of Civil Rights, which enforces things like Title IX protections against sex discrimination in schools, could be housed under the Department of Justice.

Villegas' organization is primarily concerned with making sure students with special needs continue to be protected under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), which provides federal funding for the education of children with disabilities.

"Congress still has to appropriate those funds, and IDEA has never been funded at the 40% that it was promised. It's only ever reached 14 or 15% at the most. Our fear, if we do have any, is that it's possible those funds could be zeroed out. But there's no indication that this administration would actually do that."

Dr. Jade Wexler from the University of Maryland explains how IDEA, Title I under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), and other fundamental education laws are independent of the department.

"They're separate laws that were created by Congress that are not eliminated even if the Department of Education is eliminated, as long as Congress continues to appropriate money for these different programs."

Those laws actually predate the Department of Education, which was established in 1979. Before that, there was the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, or the "HEW." Dr. Philip Burke, a professor of special education in Maryland, used to work in that department and saw how education was handled by the federal government back then.

"Frankly, it got very little attention. The "e" in HEW was a very tiny "e," not capitalized at all. It was a very small part of a big agency which controls Social Security, eventually Medicare […] When it got moved into the Department of Education, it gave much more visibility, which is a good thing."

Still, even today, the federal government typically only provides about 10% of a state's school funding.

"Even if all federal fundingpoof, just went awaythere will still be funds available for learners with disabilities, assuming that they would honor the federal guidelines in the law," Villegas from the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education said.

What is concerning to some is the potential to lose the oversight of the federal government. The Department of Education measures states' compliance with laws like IDEA, which was originally created because states were historically not serving students with disabilities properly.

If the department were to be eliminated, "They [the states] don't have any or they have minimal accountability. So then there's uneven accountability across the states," Dr. Wexler explained.

"If left to other agencies or states, they do not have experience in doing the work of making sure that our girls can participate in sports, that our students have equal access and equitable access to the programs they need. We don't want those important Title IX and Title I protections to be handed off or to go away," Paul Lemle, the president of the Maryland State Education Association, the state's largest teachers union, said.

Lemle also worries that any perceived threat to the public education system could hurt efforts to bring more teachers into the field. He says there are about 120,000 job openings in public education right now.

"When we're talking about kicking our programs and our schools around like political footballs, we really undermine confidence in our public schools," "Lemle said. "We want people to know what a great job it is. The attacks make it much harder."

But something that the experts we talked to say should reassure educators and families is the fact that laws like IDEA and ESEA historically have had bipartisan support.

"Anything can happen, but it's unlikely they would want to reduce the amount of money going into that," Dr. Wexler said.

"We love our jobs; we love our kids. We think that sentiment is shared across the aisle," Lemle said.

Still, many, including Dr. Burke, believe it would be a "huge mistake" to get rid of the department.

"If you really look at what goes on around the world, every country has figured out that education represents its future. In other words, the ability of its workforce to be well-educated, to actually be able to participate in government, to be successful economicallythey really see education as a major investment. I think that one of the tools they use to be able to have a role in that, is to have major federal agency as part of government," Dr. Burke told WMAR-2 News. "All major industrial countries have the equivalent of a Department of Education. It may not be called that, but basically there's a central role for education in the central government, which, I think, is really critical for the success of a nation, to be honest with you."

Another big part of this conversation is about the culture in schools, especially by way of the curriculum. The Department of Education doesn't determine what schools can and can't teach; it's actually against the law to do so under the 1965 Elementary and Secondary Education Act. It's up to individual states and local school boards.

For example, even with the Common Core, those standards were adopted independently by each state. The Obama administration at the time just incentivized it by offering grants to states that implemented Common Core, so there can be some indirect influence from the federal government, but it cannot directly control a school's curriculum.

---

To look at how it could be done, most funding for transportation is Federal formula funds administered by DOT. Something similar could be done by the States. Would lose standardization, but hasn't really worked. Dragged down good education like NY and bad stayed bad. Gonna put a lot on Stayes and State government.

U.S. Dept. of Education: Stay Safe, Stay at Home. Forever.

1) The Department of Education must be abolished before Trump's term ends, but there's a functional contradiction in this first priority. A department that doesn't exist cannot actually do anything, so it's unclear what any of the Trump Administration's ambitions in education…

— James Lindsay, anti-Communist (@ConceptualJames) November 17, 2024

Trump transition co-chair Linda McMahon is expected to be named as secretary of the Department of Education, sources say https://t.co/HBJ1Mrout8

— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) November 19, 2024

I guess the building would make a good county jail

God knows it's ugly enough

What should they do with the Department of Education Building after they shutdown the Department of Education? pic.twitter.com/pnJXENe2AJ

— Jeremy Wayne Tate (@JeremyTate41) November 20, 2024

Redbrickbear said:

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I guess the building would make a good county jail

God knows it's ugly enough

What should they do with the Department of Education Building after they shutdown the Department of Education? pic.twitter.com/pnJXENe2AJ

— Jeremy Wayne Tate (@JeremyTate41) November 20, 2024

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Would make a great place to shoot a zombie movie...

Redbrickbear said:

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I guess the building would make a good county jail

God knows it's ugly enough

What should they do with the Department of Education Building after they shutdown the Department of Education? pic.twitter.com/pnJXENe2AJ

— Jeremy Wayne Tate (@JeremyTate41) November 20, 2024

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Build a bridge out of her!

There are schools in America where not a single student can read or do math at grade level.

Read that again: not a single student. In the whole school. pic.twitter.com/2Ibbi6D7m0

— rebelEducator (@rebelEducator) November 18, 2024

BearFan33 said:

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If I'm a mid level bureaucrat at the DoEducation, I'm updating my resume and looking around. If a job opens in the private sector, I'm pouncing.

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That is who is going to take the brunt of this, the 75k a year guy just doing their job. Did nothing wrong, broke no rules, set no agendas or direction. They will be the "fired" brought more efficiency group.

The uppers will reassign within the Fed or move to VP roles at Beltway Corporations (ones that are buddies with the current Admin) that will get Fed contracts to do what the 75k a year guy did, only at a 3.5 multiplier...

The people that cause the issues, they will be unscathed because they are connected. It will once again be the poor schmuck that decided they wanted to be an Educator and took a job a DOE...

Wangchung said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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I guess the building would make a good county jail

God knows it's ugly enough

What should they do with the Department of Education Building after they shutdown the Department of Education? pic.twitter.com/pnJXENe2AJ

— Jeremy Wayne Tate (@JeremyTate41) November 20, 2024

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Looks like aggy campus.

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lol so true

Texas A&M- DC swamp campus