Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert asset in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on "possible violence"?

---

I'm traveling, but just google groups at J6, and I'm guessing you'll see lists. Again, it was well publicized.

I don't have time right now to debate the broader issues you raise. But I again emphasize, we've been discussing CIs, not these other things. By far, I'm for less not more surveillance.

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert asset in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on "possible violence"?

---

I'm traveling, but just google groups at J6, and I'm guessing you'll see lists. Again, it was well publicized.

I don't have time right now to debate the broader issues you raise. But I again emphasize, we've been discussing CIs, not these other things. By far, I'm for less not more surveillance.

---

I dont have to google and I can tell you the groups: Proud boys ( multi racial group that calls themselves western male chauvinists), Oathkeepers (mostly former military patriot dudes), 3%ers (also mostly former military patriot dudes). All 3 of these groups are heavily infiltrated with undercovers and law enforcement. You cant even have a right wing group that is not infiltrated by law enforcement. None of those groups are skin heads or what the left would term neo nazi.

Question, will Biden and his DOJ boys go after the Epstein Island people as hard as they have gone after those at J6? Will Biden's IRS go after Al Sharpton on his tax issues equally as the J6ers?

muddybrazos said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert asset in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on "possible violence"?

---

I'm traveling, but just google groups at J6, and I'm guessing you'll see lists. Again, it was well publicized.

I don't have time right now to debate the broader issues you raise. But I again emphasize, we've been discussing CIs, not these other things. By far, I'm for less not more surveillance.

---

I dont have to google and I can tell you the groups: Proud boys ( multi racial group that calls themselves western male chauvinists), Oathkeepers (mostly former military patriot dudes), 3%ers (also mostly former military patriot dudes). All 3 of these groups are heavily infiltrated with undercovers and law enforcement. You cant even have a right wing group that is not infiltrated by law enforcement. None of those groups are skin heads or what the left would term neo nazi.

---

There were more than that.

And I'm not disparaging every member of the groups you list, but to say they've had some bad actors and some major issues would be an understatement.

Also, read the texts and internal communications from those groups from J5 and J6 - which were admitted as evidence in hundreds of J6 trials. They are appalling.

What about the crimes committed on Epstein Island involving trafficking/underage sex? Anyone in jail for that? Has anyone even been tried for it?

Plus, if the ones on the list are all in or connected to the justice department - who is going to do the prosecuting??

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert assets in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on specter "possible violence"?

---

Define unconstitutional surveillance. If the courts and a judge approves, is it ok? If they follow the process required? Is it the Supreme Court's definition of unconstitutional or yours?

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert assets in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on specter "possible violence"?

---

Define unconstitutional surveillance. If the courts and a judge approves, is it ok? If they follow the process required? Is it the Supreme Court's definition of unconstitutional or yours?

---

Great question...do we know if the FBI is even going to judges to get approval to spy on American political protests?

What is the process? What are the safe guards in place?

As we saw with the Trump-Russia hoax stuff...there are Judges relying on bogus memos from foreign intelligence assets to use as a flimsy excuse to spying on American politicians?

Pretty obvious the whole system needs structural reform....

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert assets in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on specter "possible violence"?

---

Define unconstitutional surveillance. If the courts and a judge approves, is it ok? If they follow the process required? Is it the Supreme Court's definition of unconstitutional or yours?

---

Great question...do we know if the FBI is even going to judges to get approval to spy on American political protests?

What is the process? What are the safe guards in place?

As we saw with the Trump-Russia hoax stuff...there are Judges relying on bogus memos from foreign intelligence assets to use as a flimsy excuse to spying on American politicians?

Pretty obvious the whole system needs structural reform....

---

We are on the same page, there HAS to be oversight and penalties (even criminal) if they are spying on Americans without the proper approvals. If they are making up info, that is criminal.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

---

You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert assets in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on specter "possible violence"?

---

Define unconstitutional surveillance. If the courts and a judge approves, is it ok? If they follow the process required? Is it the Supreme Court's definition of unconstitutional or yours?

---

Great question...do we know if the FBI is even going to judges to get approval to spy on American political protests?

What is the process? What are the safe guards in place?

As we saw with the Trump-Russia hoax stuff...there are Judges relying on bogus memos from foreign intelligence assets to use as a flimsy excuse to spying on American politicians?

Pretty obvious the whole system needs structural reform....

---

We are on the same page, there HAS to be oversight and penalties (even criminal) if they are spying on Americans without the proper approvals. If they are making up info, that is criminal.

---

They have been. A couple of peons got a slap on the wrist for it... I think. There are no consequences for them making up anything and pursuing what they know to be lies.

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

You sure? Because I don't remember many of them going to jail. Or the nationwide manhunts. Or the 5am raids on their homes.

---

Well, I mean, over 14,000 were arrested in less than a month.

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

You sure? Because I don't remember many of them going to jail. Or the nationwide manhunts. Or the 5am raids on their homes.

---

Well, I mean, over 14,000 were arrested in less than a month.

---

Jail, manhunts, and 5 am raids.

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

You sure? Because I don't remember many of them going to jail. Or the nationwide manhunts. Or the 5am raids on their homes.

---

Well, I mean, over 14,000 were arrested in less than a month.

---

Jail, manhunts, and 5 am raids.

---

Do you think 14,000 were arrested on the spot? And our discussion has been about CIs. CIs provide info on and identify crimes and criminals. They have nothing to do with how arrests are made or who is ultimately jailed.

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

historian said:

---

This should surprise no one.

BREAKING: January 6 Inspector General Says at Least Two Dozen FBI Assets Were in the Crowd During Riot

https://pjmedia.com/victoria-taft/2024/12/12/the-january-6-inspector-generals-report-reveals-at-least-two-dozen-fbi-agents-in-crowd-n4935063

---

The corrupt Democrat FBI were probably instigating people to break into the Capital. I hope they uncover all of the dirt when Trump gets in.

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

---

Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

---

Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

---

14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

Wangchung said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

---

Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

---

14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

---

I just spent 10 minutes on google. Arrests were made at various times, as you'd expect. It often takes time to determine the identities of perpetrators.

Charges ranged from misdemeanors to felonies. Hundreds were charged federally, and on average were sentenced to at least 2 years.

All that said, none of this has anything to do with whether CIs are SOP.

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

---

Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

---

14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

---

I just spent 10 minutes on google. Arrests were made at various times, as you'd expect. It often takes time to determine the identities of perpetrators.

Charges ranged from misdemeanors to felonies. Hundreds were charged federally, and on average were sentenced to at least 2 years.

All that said, none of this has anything to do with whether CIs are SOP.

---

So out of 14,000... hundreds were charged federally. 8 months of riots, over 500 riots, 21 people murdered, billions in damages to federal and private property yet only hundreds were charged and even fewer saw trial. Most of the 14,000 arrests led to dropped charges. The treatment between Jan 6 perps and BLM riot perps was worlds apart. There are zero reports of FBI informants embedded in BLM or Antifa. None.
Edit; I found an article that claims the FBI sent CIs into BLM to goad them into crime, too. Can't speak to the veracity of these claims but it disproves my theory if true. . https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-paid-informant-sow-discord-005000541.html

Wangchung said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

---

Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

---

14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

---

I just spent 10 minutes on google. Arrests were made at various times, as you'd expect. It often takes time to determine the identities of perpetrators.

Charges ranged from misdemeanors to felonies. Hundreds were charged federally, and on average were sentenced to at least 2 years.

All that said, none of this has anything to do with whether CIs are SOP.

---

So out of 14,000... hundreds were charged federally. 8 months of riots, over 500 riots, 21 people murdered, billions in damages to federal and private property yet only hundreds were charged and even fewer saw trial. Most of the 14,000 arrests led to dropped charges. The treatment between Jan 6 perps and BLM riot perps was worlds apart. There are zero reports of FBI informants embedded in BLM or Antifa. None.
Edit; I found an article that claims the FBI sent CIs into BLM to goad them into crime, too. Can't speak to the veracity of these claims but it disproves my theory if true. . https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-paid-informant-sow-discord-005000541.html

---

Not to mention the Feds dropped 90% of their charges against the BLM rioters and pled down the rest.

While the Feds are still opening new investigations into the Jan. 6th protestors (4 years later) and so over charged protestors that even the Federal Courts are having to step in and admit adding in "terrorism enhancements" were a step way over the line

Wangchung said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Malbec said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

sombear said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

---

I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

---

Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

---

lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

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Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

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14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

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I just spent 10 minutes on google. Arrests were made at various times, as you'd expect. It often takes time to determine the identities of perpetrators.

Charges ranged from misdemeanors to felonies. Hundreds were charged federally, and on average were sentenced to at least 2 years.

All that said, none of this has anything to do with whether CIs are SOP.

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So out of 14,000... hundreds were charged federally. 8 months of riots, over 500 riots, 21 people murdered, billions in damages to federal and private property yet only hundreds were charged and even fewer saw trial. Most of the 14,000 arrests led to dropped charges. The treatment between Jan 6 perps and BLM riot perps was worlds apart. There are zero reports of FBI informants embedded in BLM or Antifa. None.
Edit; I found an article that claims the FBI sent CIs into BLM to goad them into crime, too. Can't speak to the veracity of these claims but it disproves my theory if true. . https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-paid-informant-sow-discord-005000541.html

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You don't see a difference with State level riots or a Courthouse in Spokane and storming the Capital during election certification? Those are equal in your eyes?

You are surprised there was more Fed presence? You are surprised that the Feds would come down harder on storming the Capital with Congress in session vs a Courthouse in Portland being damaged? Reilly?

What world do you guys live? Or is this just melodramatics? They stormed the Capital of course they are going to throw the book at them. Jan 6th was wrong, period. There is no discussion. They are lucky they got off as easy as they did.

On a side note, is this another example of the similarities of Trump and Reagan? I am sure Reagan would have led a riot and storming of the Capital, right

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Malbec said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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sombear said:

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Wangchung said:

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We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

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I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

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Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

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Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

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Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

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I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

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Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

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Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

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Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

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You still have not told us what groups you are talking about.

But lets say you are correct.....let me ask you a question.

If I start a group that the Gov. alleges is violent....lets call its the Sicm365 Patriot Bros.....and I say on twitter that I am going to your birthday party.

Does that give the Feds the right to engaged in surveillance of your house? Put covert assets in every event you have? Bug your bed room and your bathroom?

AKA do they just have the right to engaged in what seems like Unconstitutional surveillance of anyone at anytime? For whatever reason they want based on specter "possible violence"?

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According to the constitution, not without a search warrant.

The Leftists have prosecuted & imprisoned all kinds of people who were there in J6, including grandmothers and other ordinary people who merely walked around. They use the labels "insurrection" & "riot" because that gives them some legal cover for their persecutions but neither is very accurate to describe what these people did. Our modern fascists have been acting very Nazi-like in some instances.

It appears y'all are trying to goad me into saying I think all the J6 defendants were treated fairly, but you'll be sorely disappointed . . . . Many should not have been charged at all, and many more were over-charged and over-sentenced. I think it's a disgrace.

But that was not our discussion, which was whether CIs in those groups was SOP.

And as to the BLM protestors, the vast majority should not have been charged with federal crimes. That, too, would have been overreach.

sombear said:

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And as to the BLM protestors, the vast majority should not have been charged with federal crimes. That, too, would have been overreach.

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Dont worry. They werent.

sombear said:

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It appears y'all are trying to goad me into saying I think all the J6 defendants were treated fairly, but you'll be sorely disappointed . . . .

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1. But they really were and you should be able to acknowledge that.

That is blatantly obvious


2. There were plenty of BLM related crimes/riot issues taking place under Federal jurisdiction (we are not talking State stuff)

Like the attack on the Federal Court House in Portland or the rioting in DC....all crimes that could have been charged to the max by the Feds if they had wanted.....crimes that had nothing to do with State authorities.

The Feds chose to either down grade and plead out those charges....or not bring charges at all.

While they have been hunting down every Jan. 6th person they could.....right now they are even floating the idea of brining charges against people that were there that day....but that did not even enter the Capitol building!

Redbrickbear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Wangchung said:

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sombear said:

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Wangchung said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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sombear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Malbec said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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sombear said:

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Wangchung said:

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We have moved from the "it's not happening" stage and are now in the "okay it's happening but not enough to matter" stage. Next stage they will be saying "yes it happened and it's a good thing it happened."

---

I don't recall anyone saying confidently that there were no CIs there. Anyone who would say that is clueless.

Are you surprised there were CIs there? Do you think that's wrong somehow?

---

Yes. Why is the government spying on a political ralley?

---

Because some of the individuals and groups had openly advocated violence.

---

Excuses for monitoring the American people

The Federal gov. minions always come up with excuses like that for their increasingly tyrannical surveillance State spying on the Citizens of this Union

Remember when they were randomly spying on all our cell phone calls?

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-documents-reveal-nsa-improperly-collected-americans-call-records-yet-again

---

I oppose the cell phone surveillance.

I don't oppose using CIs for violent groups.

---

Which groups with a history of violent acts were present for J6 and how did the government know they would be there creating the need to embed "FBI Assets"? How many of these "CIs" were embedded in BLM and other groups in the summer of 2020?

---

Those were my questions ....

1. What groups present had a history of violence?
2, If the government was not spying on U.S. citizens, how did the government know who would be there?
3. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups treated differently?
4. Why are violent groups or allegedly violent groups prosecuted and punished differently?

---

Most of the groups and organizers were publicizing their participation and promoting the protest on twitter and elsewhere. It was no secret.

I don't know whether there were more secretive groups that may have been monitored, although that would not surprise me.

Folks, this info is all over the place. There were many skin-head, militia, and other groups openly and proudly promoting J6 before, during, and after. Whether you like it or not, there are no doubt CIs involved in most of not all of these groups.

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I wonder where the CIs were positioned during the Summer of Love?

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Smack dab in the middle of Antifa and certain BLM groups.

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lol unlikely since they hardly ever made arrests of those groups

But again….you are ludicrously trusting of the unaccountable surveillance State

---

Did you miss the 14,000 + number?

No, several of you have broadened your arguments, which is fine, but I have not. I'm arguing only that CIs in such groups is SOP. I'm waiting on "but Halliburton" ….

---

14,000 arrests, how many were after the riot? How many led to convictions?

---

I just spent 10 minutes on google. Arrests were made at various times, as you'd expect. It often takes time to determine the identities of perpetrators.

Charges ranged from misdemeanors to felonies. Hundreds were charged federally, and on average were sentenced to at least 2 years.

All that said, none of this has anything to do with whether CIs are SOP.

---

So out of 14,000... hundreds were charged federally. 8 months of riots, over 500 riots, 21 people murdered, billions in damages to federal and private property yet only hundreds were charged and even fewer saw trial. Most of the 14,000 arrests led to dropped charges. The treatment between Jan 6 perps and BLM riot perps was worlds apart. There are zero reports of FBI informants embedded in BLM or Antifa. None.
Edit; I found an article that claims the FBI sent CIs into BLM to goad them into crime, too. Can't speak to the veracity of these claims but it disproves my theory if true. . https://www.yahoo.com/news/fbi-paid-informant-sow-discord-005000541.html

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On a side note, is this another example of the similarities of Trump and Reagan? I am sure Reagan would have led a riot and storming of the Capital, right

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Similar in that neither Trump nor Reagan ever ordered anyone to riot at the Capital

[The key sentence in the Jan. 6 Ellipse speech s this one:

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."]

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[rolls eyes] Sure. He was a calming figure...

You can honestly say you can see Reagan on that stage as the Election he lost was being certified?