historian said:

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All good points.

---

I do agree with you on the balanced budget. Congress needs to do their job and require it.

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

historian said:

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I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

He was definitely raking in the cash. The US got some of it...

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

I don't hate Clinton but I strongly dislike them both and never trusted them. I don't think he deserves much of the credit for the economic successes he witnessed. They were the result of policies he hated. I will grant that he was capable of pragmatism and compromise far more than any Dem leader since then, except maybe a few in Congress in the early years of this century.

Assassin said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

He was definitely raking in the cash. The US got some of it...

---

How is Trump's Bitcoin venture going?

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

I don't hate Clinton but I strongly dislike them both and never trusted them. I don't think he deserves much of the credit for the economic successes he witnessed. They were the result of policies he hated. I will grant that he was capable of pragmatism and compromise far more than any Dem leader since then, except maybe a few in Congress in the early years of this century.

---

When you say either, Newt? Because Hillary and Bill are two SEPARATE politicians. Bill was a competent Administrator that knew when to cut loses, even if he didn't like it. I respect that. Hillary is a scumbag.

We rate Presidents by what they left. Clinton left a surplus and a balanced budget. Clinton left Bush a good situation. So, I have to give him high marks.

historian said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

I don't hate Clinton but I strongly dislike them both and never trusted them. I don't think he deserves much of the credit for the economic successes he witnessed. They were the result of policies he hated. I will grant that he was capable of pragmatism and compromise far more than any Dem leader since then, except maybe a few in Congress in the early years of this century.

---

He did hand the R the house for the first time in half a century. It's crazy people Don't realize how little power the R have had when they complain about what the government has done to them and then vote D lol

JUST IN: 🇺🇸 No tax on tips and overtime to be in President Trump's upcoming "One Big Beautiful Bill."

— Remarks (@remarks) May 12, 2025

historian said:

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I honestly did not realize it was that old. I'm also unsure if it matters much.

---

On one hand ... we're talking about one of -- if not THE -- best-maintained aircraft in the world. So they aren't exactly gonna fall apart in mid-air. Not hardly. From that standpoint, probably doesn't matter a whole lot.

On the other ... the age really comes into play as the current VC-25As are becoming obsolete. They don't make Boeing 747-200s anymore (which the VC-25As are). Haven't since 1991. In fact the entire 747 manufacturing line was shutdown in 2022).

So dwindling amount of parts for the older birds; parts for the newer models are more plentiful. Plus newer birds have better range, fuel efficiency, better technology overall. The last 747-8I (which the Boeing jets and the Qatari "gift" are) was built in 2017 -- so we're talking roughly new 8-year-old birds (actually a tad older; the VC-25Bs being refurbished were in storage in the Mohave Desert a few years) vs. 35 years for the current VC-25As. The Qatari "gift" was originally delivered in 2012, so it's already 13 years old -- early-middle aged by aircraft standards). So new birds should be in use until roughly 2058-2060.

Had to be done at some point. And surely the retired VC-25s will become museum pieces as well (I'm thinking one Smithsonian, one USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB).

But at least we would've gotten decades of service out of them -- rather than this gussied-up "third-wheel" that ... I don't think will eventually see meaningful service at all.

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Bingo

He had a GOP Congress that kept him in line (forced him back to the middle…triangulate as he called it)

And a once in a multi-generational positive national event (the collapse of the only other super power on earth and your biggest world rival)

Media Bear said:

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historian said:

---

I honestly did not realize it was that old. I'm also unsure if it matters much.

---

On one hand ... we're talking about one of -- if not THE -- best-maintained aircraft in the world. So they aren't exactly gonna fall apart in mid-air. Not hardly. From that standpoint, probably doesn't matter a whole lot.

On the other ... the age really comes into play as the current VC-25As are becoming obsolete. They don't make Boeing 747-200s anymore (which the VC-25As are). Haven't since 1991. In fact the entire 747 manufacturing line was shutdown in 2022).

So dwindling amount of parts for the older birds; parts for the newer models are more plentiful. Plus newer birds have better range, fuel efficiency, better technology overall. The last 747-8I (which the Boeing jets and the Qatari "gift" are) was built in 2017 -- so we're talking roughly new 8-year-old birds (actually a tad older; the VC-25Bs being refurbished were in storage in the Mohave Desert a few years) vs. 35 years for the current VC-25As. The Qatari "gift" was originally delivered in 2012, so it's already 13 years old -- early-middle aged by aircraft standards). So new birds should be in use until roughly 2058-2060.

Had to be done at some point. And surely the retired VC-25s will become museum pieces as well (I'm thinking one Smithsonian, one USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB).

But at least we would've gotten decades of service out of them -- rather than this gussied-up "third-wheel" that ... I don't think will eventually see meaningful service at all.

---

Really doesn't matter how well they are maintained. The air frame has a maximum number of hours/flight cycles. They are coming out of service at some point.

If you put aside how terrible it looks (and it does) that we would accept such a gift it's just not enough money that public opinions need to be involved. It's reasonable spending for an aircraft that is used constantly. Yeah, it's expensive, yeah it sucks to spend money but…it just is what it is.

Just like your family sedan. At some point it has to get replaced, like it or not.

nein51 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Well, his VP did create the internet...

Redbrickbear said:

---

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Bingo

He has a GOP Congress that kept him in line (forced him back to the middle…triangulate as he called it)

And a once in a multi-generational positive national event (the collapse of the only other super power on earth and your biggest world rival)

---

It's ok to give the last President to run a surplus some credit. Yes, conditions were favorable, but there are many ways both Congress and Presidents can spend money. It is admirable that the budget was balanced and deficit erased. It seems like a dream, today.

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Brings up an interesting point. Does luck count? How much is "luck" or being prudent enough to adjust? Does he get credit for listening and changing course? Is that a valued skill for a CEO?

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

I don't hate Clinton but I strongly dislike them both and never trusted them. I don't think he deserves much of the credit for the economic successes he witnessed. They were the result of policies he hated. I will grant that he was capable of pragmatism and compromise far more than any Dem leader since then, except maybe a few in Congress in the early years of this century.

---

When you say either, Newt? Because Hillary and Bill are two SEPARATE politicians. Bill was a competent Administrator that knew when to cut loses, even if he didn't like it. I respect that. Hillary is a scumbag.

We rate Presidents by what they left. Clinton left a surplus and a balanced budget. Clinton left Bush a good situation. So, I have to give him high marks.

---

Bill Clinton was and is a sexual predator. His greatest legacy as president is having sex in the Oval Office with a woman almost the age of his daughter. It's been pretty much confirmed that he went to Epstein's island repeatedly.

As for politics, he made "Wag the Dog" into a reality (instead of merely a Hollywood thing), vetoed welfare reform twice before signing it, benefitted from the Reagan boom and the end of the Cold War although he did nothing to achieve either (mostly the same for Bush 41), did nothing to stop Osama bin Laden & other terrorists and actually encouraged them through his weaknesses, gave us the Ruby Ridge & Waco disasters, are possibly the most corrupt political figures in US history (despite stiff competition from the Bush's, Obama's, Biden's, Pelosi's, & others), and so much more.

I put Bill & Hillary together because they are collaborators in almost everything they've done over the past 30 years.

Fre3dombear said:

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historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

I don't hate Clinton but I strongly dislike them both and never trusted them. I don't think he deserves much of the credit for the economic successes he witnessed. They were the result of policies he hated. I will grant that he was capable of pragmatism and compromise far more than any Dem leader since then, except maybe a few in Congress in the early years of this century.

---

He did hand the R the house for the first time in half a century. It's crazy people Don't realize how little power the R have had when they complain about what the government has done to them and then vote D lol

---

Good point. That was probably Bill Clinton's greatest positive accomplishment in his life! I doubt he is proud of it or will agree that it was good for the country.

I won't say Kennedy was awful or a disaster but he definitely is overrated. He doesn't have much in the way of real accomplishments, mainly because his life was cut short in Dallas & he was somewhat of a weak leader.

Probably his greatest success was in handling the Cuban Missile Crisis which was very nearly an immense disaster. But it never would have happened had he not screwed up terribly in 1961 at the Bay of Pigs and in his summit with Khrushchev in Vienna.

Domestically, he belatedly supported civil rights & tax cuts (similar to Reagan's, Bush's & Trump's) both of which became posthumous successes.

The best thing I can say about JFK is to echo Rush Limbaugh who observed that he was the last Dem president who also was an American patriot.

historian said:

---

I won't say Kennedy was awful or a disaster but he definitely is overrated. He doesn't have much in the way of real accomplishments, mainly because his life was cut short in Dallas & he was somewhat of a weak leader.

Probably his greatest success was in handling the Cuban Missile Crisis which was very nearly an immense disaster. But it never would have happened had he not screwed up terribly in 1961 at the Bay of Pigs and in his summit with Khrushchev in Vienna.

Domestically, he belatedly supported civil rights & tax cuts (similar to Reagan's, Bush's & Trump's) both of which became posthumous successes.

The best thing I can say about JFK is to echo Rush Limbaugh who observed that he was the last Dem president who also was an American patriot.

---

You don't get credit for the missile crisis when your own incompetence caused it in the first place.

And it's not possible to think Clinton was a sleaze bag without recognizing how terrible Kennedy was in her personal life.

Exactly. I must be honest, though. He did handle it quite well once it began. And he is not solely to blame for it. By the same token, Khrushchev and others deserve much credit for bringing it to a peaceful resolution. Khrushchev was eventually deposed, partly because of it.

Kennedy was quite the pervert, cheating on his wife repeatedly (including with Marilyn Monroe). I would not put him on the level of Clinton, though. I doubt JFK ever was a pedo, for one thing.

Ben Shapiro on Qatar gifting Trump a plane: "Taking sacks of goodies from people who support Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Jazeera, that's not America first....If you want President Trump to succeed, this kind of skeezy stuff needs to stop." pic.twitter.com/fZGGf6iM8N

— The Bulwark (@BulwarkOnline) May 12, 2025

FLBear5630 said:

---

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Brings up an interesting point. Does luck count? How much is "luck" or being prudent enough to adjust? Does he get credit for listening and changing course? Is that a valued skill for a CEO?

---

I think it's less luck and more timing.

historian said:

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Exactly. I must be honest, though. He did handle it quite well once it began. And he is not solely to blame for it. By the same token, Khrushchev and others deserve much credit for bringing it to a peaceful resolution. Khrushchev was eventually deposed, partly because of it.

---

If you haven't read it I suggest One Hell of a Gamble

https://books.google.com/books/about/One_Hell_of_a_Gamble_Khrushchev_Castro_a.html?id=j1P0AgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Absolutely incredible read

nein51 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

---

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Brings up an interesting point. Does luck count? How much is "luck" or being prudent enough to adjust? Does he get credit for listening and changing course? Is that a valued skill for a CEO?

---

I think it's less luck and more timing.

---

Some might argue the timing was lucky. However one describes it, he does not deserve credit for favorable circumstances that made his job much easier.

historian said:

---

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

nein51 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

Clinton is the second most overrated history in modern times after Kennedy who was, frankly, an awful disaster.

Clinton gets all the credit for the U.S. economy but he played virtually no role in it. He lucked into the boom that was the internet and he, largely, hated the policies that created that growth.

Now, he does deserve a ton of credit for managing it and, overall, I think he was "fine".

---

Brings up an interesting point. Does luck count? How much is "luck" or being prudent enough to adjust? Does he get credit for listening and changing course? Is that a valued skill for a CEO?

---

I think it's less luck and more timing.

---

Some might argue the timing was lucky. However one describes it, he does not deserve credit for favorable circumstances that made his job much easier.

---

Probably flip sides of the same coin

I gave not read it but I have studied the Missile Crisis quite a bit. I even wrote a research paper on it in grad school at Baylor.

historian said:

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I gave not read it but I have studied the Missile Crisis quite a bit. I even wrote a research paper on it in grad school at Baylor.

---

That includes declassified materials from the U.S., Russia and Cuba. It's not an easy read but it's a great read. If you wrote a paper on the crisis you would love it.

For those following along at home, thats $195K/hour

And for those Autopiloting her at home, shake my damn hand 🤝https://t.co/yoQ4Axio4L

Thats how to see her full positions + invest alongside too

Bc if she's gonna keep trading, why not join her

Full legal stuff below:… pic.twitter.com/xJQOnmR8uw

— Nancy Pelosi Stock Tracker ♟ (@PelosiTracker_) May 12, 2025

I have seen a few instances noted here where the tariff issue may have caused problems, but personally I have seen none of it (Waco, Tx).

In my blue collar world, numbers are down as far as every day expenses are concerned....Gas, groceries, etc.

I know of nobody that has went out of business and I deal with quite a few material suppliers along with contractors (construction).

What has made it more difficult is competition from illegals...$12 an hour is impossible to compete with for skilled labor, especially when they aren't "skilled".

I don't really have a good command of national economic policies so I don't have much of an opinion there.

What are some seeing that I am not?

The economy looks better to me at the moment.

What am I missing?

FLBear5630 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Qatar says no final decision made on gifting Trump a jet to use as Air Force One
https://t.co/N6GYRqiGXB

— WFAA (@wfaa) May 12, 2025

---

No one sees an issue with this?

---

The mother of all Grifts! Followed closely by by Trumpy coin.

JUST IN: 🇺🇸 Republican tax bill raises US debt limit by $4 trillion.

— Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru) May 12, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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Trump leaves for the Gulf today and is aiming to return home with $1 trillion worth of deals and investment pledges, per Axios

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) May 12, 2025

---

and a few for the Trump crime family (buildings, golf courses, crypto)which makes the Biden CF look upstanding.

BREAKING:

The first group of Afrikaner South African refugees has arrived in the U.S. pic.twitter.com/wlAGzzepqo

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) May 12, 2025

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I wish there was a way to prevent anyone on Capitol hill from getting paid until the budget is balanced. That would guarantee a balanced budget in no time!

---

I know everyone here hates Clinton. I was not a fan when he was elected, but looking back. He did a good job with the Budget. He and Newt got it done.

---

I don't hate Clinton but I strongly dislike them both and never trusted them. I don't think he deserves much of the credit for the economic successes he witnessed. They were the result of policies he hated. I will grant that he was capable of pragmatism and compromise far more than any Dem leader since then, except maybe a few in Congress in the early years of this century.

---

When you say either, Newt? Because Hillary and Bill are two SEPARATE politicians. Bill was a competent Administrator that knew when to cut loses, even if he didn't like it. I respect that. Hillary is a scumbag.

We rate Presidents by what they left. Clinton left a surplus and a balanced budget. Clinton left Bush a good situation. So, I have to give him high marks.

---

Bill Clinton was and is a sexual predator. His greatest legacy as president is having sex in the Oval Office with a woman almost the age of his daughter. It's been pretty much confirmed that he went to Epstein's island repeatedly.

As for politics, he made "Wag the Dog" into a reality (instead of merely a Hollywood thing), vetoed welfare reform twice before signing it, benefitted from the Reagan boom and the end of the Cold War although he did nothing to achieve either (mostly the same for Bush 41), did nothing to stop Osama bin Laden & other terrorists and actually encouraged them through his weaknesses, gave us the Ruby Ridge & Waco disasters, are possibly the most corrupt political figures in US history (despite stiff competition from the Bush's, Obama's, Biden's, Pelosi's, & others), and so much more.

I put Bill & Hillary together because they are collaborators in almost everything they've done over the past 30 years.

---

good think Trump is not a predator.