william said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
reading comprehension much??
- UF
>>LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....<<
Anyway - Looks like most of the immediate area - the Sunni not whack job Muslim countries - want to 'finish the Job.
I couldnt agree more.....
Another short term "settlement" won't work -
D!

william said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
reading comprehension much??
- UF
>>LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....<<
Anyway - Looks like most of the immediate area - the Sunni not whack job Muslim countries - want to 'finish the Job.
I couldnt agree more.....
Another short term "settlement" won't work -
D!
J.R. said:william said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
reading comprehension much??
- UF
>>LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....<<
Anyway - Looks like most of the immediate area - the Sunni not whack job Muslim countries - want to 'finish the Job.
I couldnt agree more.....
Another short term "settlement" won't work -
D!
yeah, mis read. my bad
J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
FLBear5630 said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
Persian Culture? What Persian Culture has existed, ever, that was free and didn't follow SOME strong Authoritarian Government, religious or not?????
Even the Shah's brand of freedom has been bred out of them over the last 2 generations. The last people that were born and raised with an expectation or even an appreciation for western freedom was in 1960 over 50 years ago.
Knowing who Cyrus or Darius were is great, but not in day to day life context or more importantly to believe the right to wearing a short skirt is worth dying for. The wealthy elite that did leave are not going back to rebuild and risk a fight? Even the Shah's son is waiting for the US to make it safe.
J.R. said:FLBear5630 said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
Persian Culture? What Persian Culture has existed, ever, that was free and didn't follow SOME strong Authoritarian Government, religious or not?????
Even the Shah's brand of freedom has been bred out of them over the last 2 generations. The last people that were born and raised with an expectation or even an appreciation for western freedom was in 1960 over 50 years ago.
Knowing who Cyrus or Darius were is great, but not in day to day life context or more importantly to believe the right to wearing a short skirt is worth dying for. The wealthy elite that did leave are not going back to rebuild and risk a fight? Even the Shah's son is waiting for the US to make it safe.
I have a couple of friends who's heritage is Iran, but don't dare refer to them as Iranian..They are Persian, period. They disavow Iran's Theorcratic Regime. I don't know much of the history there, just my small interaction.
Assassin said:william said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
reading comprehension much??
- UF
>>LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....<<
Anyway - Looks like most of the immediate area - the Sunni not whack job Muslim countries - want to 'finish the Job.
I couldnt agree more.....
Another short term "settlement" won't work -
D!
Courtesy Heather M. Spencer

EatMoreSalmon said:boognish_bear said:🚨EXPOSED: Every REPUBLICAN Member of Congress—Has An Assigned AIPAC Babysitter?!😤
— Project Constitution (@ProjectConstitu) March 22, 2026
CONGRESSMAN Thomas Massie just revealed on @TCNetwork that every Republican member of Congress—except him, has an assigned AIPAC Babysitter? 📉🕵️♂️
THE SHOCKING REVELATIONS:
Massie reveals that… pic.twitter.com/dbeJKMovd5
Now, how many "babysitter" lobbyists do most senators have from other organizations?
Top Lobbying Spenders
US Chamber of Commerce
National Assn of Realtors
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America
Business Roundtable
Growth in "Underground" Lobbying: While registered numbers were around 12,281 in 2013, many unregistered individuals, often described as "hired guns," use sophisticated tactics, bringing the estimated active number closer to 100,000.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems
The_barBEARian said:EatMoreSalmon said:boognish_bear said:🚨EXPOSED: Every REPUBLICAN Member of Congress—Has An Assigned AIPAC Babysitter?!😤
— Project Constitution (@ProjectConstitu) March 22, 2026
CONGRESSMAN Thomas Massie just revealed on @TCNetwork that every Republican member of Congress—except him, has an assigned AIPAC Babysitter? 📉🕵️♂️
THE SHOCKING REVELATIONS:
Massie reveals that… pic.twitter.com/dbeJKMovd5
Now, how many "babysitter" lobbyists do most senators have from other organizations?
Top Lobbying Spenders
US Chamber of Commerce
National Assn of Realtors
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America
Business Roundtable
Growth in "Underground" Lobbying: While registered numbers were around 12,281 in 2013, many unregistered individuals, often described as "hired guns," use sophisticated tactics, bringing the estimated active number closer to 100,000.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems
Those are American industries, not foreign nations.
Apples to Oranges comparison.
Miller: What President Trump is doing is a national miracle that will be studied not only for generations but for centuries to come.
— Acyn (@Acyn) March 23, 2026
Trump: Kash, see if you can top that.
Patel: Mr. President, thank you for delivering the safest country on God's green Earth pic.twitter.com/G8HTyAcVd8
Let me explain what just happened 👇
— Bark (@barkmeta) March 23, 2026
5 minutes before the President announced a halt to attacks on Iran… someone placed a $1.5 BILLION bet on stocks going up and dumped $192 million in oil.
5 minutes…
These trades were 4 to 6 times larger than anything else in the entire… https://t.co/6JLFdkJlN9 pic.twitter.com/eY13rlNC6a
boognish_bear said:Let me explain what just happened 👇
— Bark (@barkmeta) March 23, 2026
5 minutes before the President announced a halt to attacks on Iran… someone placed a $1.5 BILLION bet on stocks going up and dumped $192 million in oil.
5 minutes…
These trades were 4 to 6 times larger than anything else in the entire… https://t.co/6JLFdkJlN9 pic.twitter.com/eY13rlNC6a
Osodecentx said:boognish_bear said:Let me explain what just happened 👇
— Bark (@barkmeta) March 23, 2026
5 minutes before the President announced a halt to attacks on Iran… someone placed a $1.5 BILLION bet on stocks going up and dumped $192 million in oil.
5 minutes…
These trades were 4 to 6 times larger than anything else in the entire… https://t.co/6JLFdkJlN9 pic.twitter.com/eY13rlNC6a
Someone won on the $1.5 billion investment & lost on the $192 million investment
TRUMP: Who are you with?
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) March 23, 2026
REPORTER: Newsmax
TRUMP: You're not doing a very good job
REPORTER: You deployed ICE--
TRUMP: You're not doing a good job. Did you hear me? I'm taking CNN over Newsmax. Can you believe it? pic.twitter.com/tKpwRp5dh5
Joe Kent remarried four and a half years after his wife was killed by ISIS.
— An0maly (@LegendaryEnergy) March 23, 2026
Trump is an evil, demented demon. https://t.co/ogD2OrS3Fe
william said:Assassin said:william said:J.R. said:william said:FLBear5630 said:canoso said:FLBear5630 said:KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
Then what? You think the citizens of Iran are going to rejoice and be happy that the US put them back in the stone age? Who rebuilds? We have the money for that? You saw in Venezuela, with everything in place and in the western hemisphere, what we had to do to get the "private sector" to invest. Now, in the middle east???
You don't think China that has been oil thirsty and has a relationship with Iran won't come in and re-build? Can't be the Saudi's, the Sunni's and Shia hate each other. Israel? Maybe Jared Kushner?
There is no winning scenario here, which is why Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, Trump 1 (with adults in his Cabinet) and even brain-dead Biden stayed away from this.
All your straw men are blowing away across the prairie. How are the citizens of Iran not going to rejoice over and themselves take full advantage of their country's return to liberty? Just because many in this country idolize ease, comfort, and safety doesn't mean liberty doesn't tower over such things in value.
Return of Liberty? No one there has any concept of PRE-1978! Those people are in their 70's. We are talking generations of Shia education. That is what you think the Iranian people are going to take out of destroying their electrical grid and fuel infrastructure? They are going to be worrying about potable water and wastewater.
I find it funny you think the US will be viewed as the good guy here, it worked so well in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq and everywhere elses we tried and we didn't destroy a modern infrastructure in those places! China is going to be the savior, they are going to come in with trillions to rebuild and secure oil for the next 100 years.
You guys really have drinken the kool aid. We are destroying their country and it will not even result in a change in regime.
LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....
and these people have witnessed 350,000 or more of their defenseless friends and family systematically slaughtered over the past 47 years.
they have not / will not forget and will be ready to re-take the country within a year or two.
lots of good intel on the ground will feed ISR and will eventually be the end of the IRGC - but, barring some very unlikely scenario - will likely take a while.
Never Again means Never Again.
- UF
Same for UKR - Putin has blundered horribly - and has created millions of people who never forgive and forget and will be out for blood revenge for Millenia. Everyone knows RUS has lost - even Putin.
His back assward demoralized forces are now being routed and out smarted by a culturally strong and highly motivated UKR army.
KKM.....you rockin a serious sugar high? Me thinks the Persian Civilization is a little older than 47. Just checkin my math
reading comprehension much??
- UF
>>LOL - the Persian civilization goes back more than 47 yrs....<<
Anyway - Looks like most of the immediate area - the Sunni not whack job Muslim countries - want to 'finish the Job.
I couldnt agree more.....
Another short term "settlement" won't work -
D!
Courtesy Heather M. Spencer
the p*steinke in you p*comes out.........
- tbp*
D!
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Osodecentx said:boognish_bear said:Let me explain what just happened 👇
— Bark (@barkmeta) March 23, 2026
5 minutes before the President announced a halt to attacks on Iran… someone placed a $1.5 BILLION bet on stocks going up and dumped $192 million in oil.
5 minutes…
These trades were 4 to 6 times larger than anything else in the entire… https://t.co/6JLFdkJlN9 pic.twitter.com/eY13rlNC6a
Someone won on the $1.5 billion investment & lost on the $192 million investment
ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
Assassin said:KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
Until the world is rid of the Islamic Army and all the spinoffs, we are at risk..
Or negotiate a new relationship now that they know we'll bomb the **** out of them for certain redlines.KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
ATL Bear said:KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
Or negotiate a new relationship now that they know we'll bomb the **** out of them for certain redlines.
The bombing was always the easy part. Peace with Iran has been what's elusive. Trump has a chance to do something previously viewed as unattainable. And I'm not talking regime change.KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
Or negotiate a new relationship now that they know we'll bomb the **** out of them for certain redlines.
Only one US president bombed the **** out of them. At least 5 were too scared of the political fallout to do anything. So what makes you believe the next presidents will be any different ?
Assassin said:KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
Until the world is rid of the Islamic Army and all the spinoffs, we are at risk..
Our national debt is the greatest threat to our national security. The Iran war costs $1-2 billion a day. Farmers need billions to offset tariff losses. Storm damage needs billions more. None of it is paid for. All of it is borrowed. And Washington just keeps spending. pic.twitter.com/wgGU9yB4jE
— Rand Paul (@RandPaul) March 23, 2026
Jack Bauer said:Miller: What President Trump is doing is a national miracle that will be studied not only for generations but for centuries to come.
— Acyn (@Acyn) March 23, 2026
Trump: Kash, see if you can top that.
Patel: Mr. President, thank you for delivering the safest country on God's green Earth pic.twitter.com/G8HTyAcVd8
ATL Bear said:The bombing was always the easy part. Peace with Iran has been what's elusive. Trump has a chance to do something previously viewed as unattainable. And I'm not talking regime change.KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:KaiBear said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:ATL Bear said:Oldbear83 said:
Change your panties and listen to the adults instead of the screamers.
Who are these "adults"?
The adults understand that the Iran conflict will not be over by the time you get impatient, that ending a half-century of malicious fanaticism will take resolve and patience.
You didn't identify the "adults". But half century of fanaticism? Try about a millennium. A sobering "adult" reality is that Hamas still controls the majority of the population and about half the territory in Gaza. If the objective is removing Islamic fanaticism, more than patience will be required. My advice is to take the off-ramp of a mostly defanged Iranian military and fully defanged nuclear program before American soldier and sailor bodies start to escalate, and energy infrastructure in the region becomes decimated to the point global markets will take years to recover.
Go ask someone who remembers Iran pre-Ayatollah.
And change your panties again, no sense pissing yourself over what ifs.
What ifs? I laid 3 facts on you and you ostriched like you always do for Trump. You're a loyal follower, I'll give you that.
No, you claim things which have not happened will happen, on no evidence beyond your fear and contempt.
Islamic fanaticism has been around for more than a Millennium, including in Persia/Iran. Hamas still controls the majority of the population and nearly half the territory in Gaza. That was 3. I would say removing Islamic fanaticism in Iran will require more than patience is an outright fact as well (#4), but timelines operate on a very malleable spectrum in Trump world. So I won't press interpretive facts like that or that the nuclear program has been decimated or their military as well even though I feel that is factual also (5 and 6).
Again, you are engaging in speculation, which is fine except that it's not fact.
Just as Whiterock is missing the last 47 years to think we can just return Iran to its 1970s condition and alignment, it's also absurd to pretend there is not a strong swell of rebellion in Iran against the tyranny of the Ayatollahs. Or did you miss all the people willing to put their lives at risk to protest the government?
It's also dishonest to ignore the very real damage done to Iran's establishment and hierarchy. Their command structure, both military and political, is gone. Almost all their conventional weapons are gone. The attacks set by Iran are now essentially random, hitting whatever they can while they still can.
Notice how European nations are starting to change their positions. They went from resisting publicly speaking against the Iranian regime, to publicly stating they will support the US efforts to free the gulf. Notice as well that the old Imperial flag for Iran has started showing up. I don't think that means the Shah will be re-installed. But changes are coming, and some of them can be used to stabilize the region to the advantage of the US.
The trick, of course, is that Islamic fanaticism is going to pop up somewhere. In the 19th Century, a lot of that took the form of Mahdiism, and eventually that movement led to the creation of Pakistan. Fundamentalist Islam, the term most commonly aligned with the 'Death to America' , rose with Khomeini in 1978,but people forget that Khomeini was imported to Iran in much the same way Lenin was imported to Russia. if and when Iran installs a government which resists terrorism, the fanatics will find a new home, I'd guess in Somalia or Yemen, but time will tell.
That's my speculation based on the available facts.
Khomenei wasn't imported. He was home grown in Qom. Like Lenin he was exiled by the authorities, but unlike Lenin, Islamist fanaticism has been a part of Iranian and Persian culture for centuries. Sometimes with brutality unmatched by any of our modern standards (think Timur and Isfahan). In fact the Shah's demise was because he rejected the Islamic foundation of Iran and took them toward Westernization (see the White Revolution).
Iran is a typical despotic Islamist brutal regime. We cooperate with many of them. Before that it went through a short brutal Monarchy period of the Shah, but prior to that the region was defined by centuries of Islamic empires and dynasties swaying between Shia and Sunni conflict (ideological and real). The promotion of the Western democracy, liberty loving Persian underbelly is a woke myth. Probably fomented by the stream of Iranians exiled to the West through the years. That doesn't mean they don't resist brutality and economic unfairness and corruption, but it's not so they can be Israel's friend, or they plan to reject Islamism. There are 10 rural Iranians for every 1 enlightened Tehran elite.
The reality is Iran will be fanatic. It will have oppression. The only question is will they contain the fanaticism as it relates to American, Israeli, and Western interests? We always execute the military part well. It's when the bombs and gunfire stop that the complications occur. It's a lesson we can't seem to accept how the progression happens. Vacuum's are filled with the power available, and Islam is the most powerful force in the country. If you need "facts" look at Gaza, Syria, Libya, and Iraq. Egypt was tracking toward a more military directed secular power base, but even they are starting to institutionalize religion for their own support.
I acknowledged that we have decimated their military power structure and their leadership. If the next path is to de-Islamist the current or future regime, it will get ugly. Take the off-ramp. It's a win even if it doesn't look like the perfect finish.
Not remotely a win if Iran merely rebuilds for a few years then closes the Strait once again. Iran will never be more politically isolated than right NOW. Finish the job....be patient and expect more American KIA's.
Or negotiate a new relationship now that they know we'll bomb the **** out of them for certain redlines.
Only one US president bombed the **** out of them. At least 5 were too scared of the political fallout to do anything. So what makes you believe the next presidents will be any different ?
Porteroso said:Jack Bauer said:Miller: What President Trump is doing is a national miracle that will be studied not only for generations but for centuries to come.
— Acyn (@Acyn) March 23, 2026
Trump: Kash, see if you can top that.
Patel: Mr. President, thank you for delivering the safest country on God's green Earth pic.twitter.com/G8HTyAcVd8
Why did they televise such a knob sucking? I thought the FCC had rules about that.
KaiBear said:whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Oldbear83 said:
Amazing how many people will ignore actions by China and Russia, but any rumor about Trump and they wet themselves.
Is the Russia/ Ukraine War still going on? Seems like we haven't heard anything about it the last three weeks. Was just wondering.
Ukraine has in the last few weeks retaken several hundred square kilometers of its territory that took Russia over a year and hundreds of thousands of casualties to capture. Russia is about to launch its spring offensive but will accomplish little. To be clear, the percentages of the changes involved are very, very small. But the current trend (a trickle, but a trend) seems to be to Ukraine's benefit.
I have stated here many times that the Russian war effort was likely to peak in mid-2026. Looks like that happened a couple of months ago. They are currently unable to recruit enough troops to replace losses. That puts Putin in a classic lose/lose dilemma: it is doubtful he could politically survive a peace agreement on current terms; and it is doubtful he could politically survive the general mobilization it would take to reverse current trends.
Expect no big developments. Just more of the same, with metric shyte-tons of debate about mostly inconsequential changes on the battlefield.
Hope we can avoid a similar ground war nightmare in Iran.
Just destroy their power plants and oil facilities from the air and Iran's economy is finished.
For the first time since Gallup began tracking it, more U.S. workers are struggling in life (49%) than thriving (46%).
— InteractivePolls (@IAPolls2022) March 24, 2026
Net thriving
🟢 Q3, 2022: +14
🟢 Q2, 2025: +4
🟤 Q4, 2025: -3https://t.co/nMuqFg83tb pic.twitter.com/sz5hKIlrYL