Ever since I moved into the Rivercrest apartments when I was 19, I have been paying property taxes (school taxes) in one form or another. If I live to a normal life expectancy of 75, I would have paid school taxes for 56 years.

Allowing me to direct some of those school taxes during the 15 to 17 years that I have/had school age children is not going to underfund public education.

Waco1947 said:

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Let's try to simplify what you are really saying for those who aren't super familiar with our public school system.
Greg Abbott: We want to offer school choice because the gap between our highest and our lowest achieving students is getting bigger. Any child can attend a private school if they choose.
Family A: Awesome! My child already attends a private school because I am rich and can afford it! The voucher now gives me a $10,000 discount on what I'm already paying!
Abbott: You're welcome!

Family B: Awesome! $10,000 is great, but our school choice costs $20,000 a year. How do I pay the rest?
Abbott: Since your child has great test scores, the school will give them a scholarship to cover the rest of the cost.

Family C: Awesome! $10,000 is great, but our school choice costs $20,000 a year. How do I pay the rest?
Abbott: Since your child didn't have the best test scores, it's not our problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family D: Awesome! But, my child has autism and the private school doesn't have any programs to deal with that.
Abbott: Not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family E: So awesome! What time will the bus be by to pick up my child?

Abbott: It won't, but it's not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.
Family F: Awesome! But, my child has an IEP for his special needs and our school of choice doesn't have programs to help him.
Abbott: Not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family G: I homeschool already and the $10,000 will be so nice to help us.
Abbott: Yes! Just make sure you get all your curriculum from MY approved vendors list. I want the control. Oh by the way, how does the STAAR test sound? You will trade your freedom for funding!

Public School: How is taking only high test scorers with no special needs who can provide their own transportation (which usually equates to being middle or upper class) going to shrink the gap between the
highest and lowest achieving students?
Abbott: Not my problem. Do more with less. I'm just happy that my rich donors are now happy with their discount and I know my kid doesn't have to sit next to a poor kid or one with a learning disability in class. Win-win for everyone! By the way, your special education student test scores WILL be counted towards your school test score average.

Public Schools: That's not really fair. That's not comparing apples to apples since the private schools don't have to accept kids who bring down their test score average.
Abbott: Not my problem. We will continue to make it look like YOU are the biggest failure in the world.

---

I have a good friend who homeschools post this exact same post, so it's going around the circles obviously.

If you take $10,000 from the goverment, when you would just be sitting at the house anyway because she is a stay at home mom and has been homeschooling the past 20 years, how do you think the cirriculum wouldn't have to be from an approved list. You are taking government money to school kids.

This is a simplist post and people who know the plan say inaccurate.

Probably not the best plan available anyway, but this is a cartoon level explaination.

midgett said:

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TL; DR

The problem for public schools is that teachers can typically only be fired for egregious behavior and THAT may not stay on their record.

The motivation for public schools is minimal. Teacher unions protect the worst and schools aren't punished for failing students. The money keeps flowing.

For private schools, it's deliver or go out of business. Students learn, do well in testing and have good college acceptance rates. If students don't learn, who's gonna pay for their kid to fail? The private school will go out of business, as it should.

However, I don't think it is just public vs private. I am not sure of the mechanics, but many public schools are excellent. Many in my family were public school teachers and all of our children went to public schools.

The question no one on your side, including you, will answer is why should a parent be forced to send their child to a failing school just because of their address? There is a correlation for good schools and higher income neighborhoods. If someone is low income, why can't they send their child to a public school in a better neighborhood or district? Currently, it's because the person can't afford the neighborhood. That is pretty sad and unfair especially for single moms working multiple jobs.

Any public school should be available. You shouldn't be stuck to a bad school because of your address. Once again, I don't know the mechanics but there needs to be a way for bad schools to either go out of business or up their game (step one would be loosening the grip of the teacher union).

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Then why post if DR?

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

Let's try to simplify what you are really saying for those who aren't super familiar with our public school system.
Greg Abbott: We want to offer school choice because the gap between our highest and our lowest achieving students is getting bigger. Any child can attend a private school if they choose.
Family A: Awesome! My child already attends a private school because I am rich and can afford it! The voucher now gives me a $10,000 discount on what I'm already paying!
Abbott: You're welcome!

Family B: Awesome! $10,000 is great, but our school choice costs $20,000 a year. How do I pay the rest?
Abbott: Since your child has great test scores, the school will give them a scholarship to cover the rest of the cost.

Family C: Awesome! $10,000 is great, but our school choice costs $20,000 a year. How do I pay the rest?
Abbott: Since your child didn't have the best test scores, it's not our problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family D: Awesome! But, my child has autism and the private school doesn't have any programs to deal with that.
Abbott: Not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family E: So awesome! What time will the bus be by to pick up my child?

Abbott: It won't, but it's not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.
Family F: Awesome! But, my child has an IEP for his special needs and our school of choice doesn't have programs to help him.
Abbott: Not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family G: I homeschool already and the $10,000 will be so nice to help us.
Abbott: Yes! Just make sure you get all your curriculum from MY approved vendors list. I want the control. Oh by the way, how does the STAAR test sound? You will trade your freedom for funding!

Public School: How is taking only high test scorers with no special needs who can provide their own transportation (which usually equates to being middle or upper class) going to shrink the gap between the
highest and lowest achieving students?
Abbott: Not my problem. Do more with less. I'm just happy that my rich donors are now happy with their discount and I know my kid doesn't have to sit next to a poor kid or one with a learning disability in class. Win-win for everyone! By the way, your special education student test scores WILL be counted towards your school test score average.

Public Schools: That's not really fair. That's not comparing apples to apples since the private schools don't have to accept kids who bring down their test score average.
Abbott: Not my problem. We will continue to make it look like YOU are the biggest failure in the world.

---

I have a good friend who homeschools post this exact same post, so it's going around the circles obviously. Yes, FB

If you take $10,000 from the government, when you would just be sitting at the house anyway because she is a stay at home mom and has been homeschooling the past 20 years, how do you think the curriculum wouldn't have to be from an approved list. You are taking government money to school kids. I am not sure of your point?

This is a simplist post and people who know the plan say inaccurate. I think you mean simplistic. Give a source that says this cartoon post is wrong.

Probably not the best plan available anyway, but this is a cartoon level explanation. Maybe so but accurate

---

Y'all know I stay out of politics, but when it hits Texas high school football, that's...kind of my thing?

I think the proposed school voucher program could do real harm to the fabric of #TXHSFB.

My column: https://t.co/UxhQgI9ppb

— Greg Tepper (@Tepper) February 24, 2025

Could a compromise be only failing districts can be voucher eligible?

EatMoreSalmon said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Y'all know I stay out of politics, but when it hits Texas high school football, that's...kind of my thing?

I think the proposed school voucher program could do real harm to the fabric of #TXHSFB.

My column: https://t.co/UxhQgI9ppb

— Greg Tepper (@Tepper) February 24, 2025

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Sports teams should not be a driving factor in improving Texas schools any more than how interest clubs should. I love sports, but that isn't the issue for inner city families that want a good education for their kids.

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Yep.

Honestly at this point, our school system needs a reset. And vouchers are one of the ways to give people who care about their kids education some options. Also a way to incentivize public schools to get better.

El Oso said:

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When it comes to family C, it isn't the government's problem. Yes, children are more than a test score, but it's time we get past the notion that you deserve something simply because you exist. Things cost money. Pony up your fair share and sometimes, unfortunately, that means you get left out.

Family D is a gross misrepresentation of the reality of that situation. If a private school (or independent school) receives any money at all from the federal government, they must follow 504 plans. It's federal law. If the school doesn't receive federal money, then they don't have to comply with federal law, and they shouldn't have to. You should have known better before you enrolled your kid in a school that isn't meeting their needs.

Family E--again, not the government's problem. My kids both got accepted to magnet schools in the district they attend, part of the deal is I either pay for them to ride the bus or it is 100% on me to get them to and from school (one is three miles away and the other six; as a point of reference, their home schools are a half mile and a mile from the house). That's as it should be. Again, you aren't entitled to anything just because you exist. If you want something, you need to have a vested interest in it of some kind. And one of my kids got in to said magnet school with a fairly extensive 504 plan due to his neurodivergent brain. His test scores suck, but he's a lot smarter than kids with good test scores. Funny how the human brain works.

Family F is another misrepresentation of how IEPs work. The technical answer is private schools do not have to have them. The reality is almost every private school offers tutoring, learning centers, speech services, and in fact, some private schools actually specialize in meeting students with certain learning disabilities (dyslexia, ADHD, ASD). Again, if you picked a school that doesn't follow IEP's, that's on you for being a bad parent.

Family G is another misrepresentation of how this works in Texas. There is a lot of freedom to choose the curriculum you will use, but yes, there are very specific rules about what the curriculum you choose must do. Abbott was also willing to concede STAAR testing requirements in 2023 in an effort to pass school vouchers. It stands to reason he could be willing to do it again if that's going to help him close the deal this time around.

Special education scores have always been counted. In fact, it's one of the reasons the U.S. has fallen in world wide education rankings. Most countries do not report individual student data for students with SEN in the same way as the US does. We've been comparing apples to oranges for decades now and thinking our system is failing. It does need help. Failing is a debatable term.

---

Thoughtful response. Thank you. You keep repeating the phrase "Not the government's problem". The point is the voucher is of no help to those in special educational needs. These kids become by default the government's problem and the government in under funding public schools who must provide for the concerns.

EatMoreSalmon said:

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boognish_bear said:

---

Y'all know I stay out of politics, but when it hits Texas high school football, that's...kind of my thing?

I think the proposed school voucher program could do real harm to the fabric of #TXHSFB.

My column: https://t.co/UxhQgI9ppb

— Greg Tepper (@Tepper) February 24, 2025

---

Sports teams should not be a driving factor in improving Texas schools any more than how interest clubs should. I love sports, but that isn't the issue for inner city families that want a good education for their kids.

---

Yea, some guy from Missouri is more worried about HS football than education.

I like Texas HS football as much as anybody, but that should be a non-factor here.

HS football has become too big money often, and there is a lot of wasted $$ on multi-million
$$ stadiums.

Waco1947 said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

Let's try to simplify what you are really saying for those who aren't super familiar with our public school system.
Greg Abbott: We want to offer school choice because the gap between our highest and our lowest achieving students is getting bigger. Any child can attend a private school if they choose.
Family A: Awesome! My child already attends a private school because I am rich and can afford it! The voucher now gives me a $10,000 discount on what I'm already paying!
Abbott: You're welcome!

Family B: Awesome! $10,000 is great, but our school choice costs $20,000 a year. How do I pay the rest?
Abbott: Since your child has great test scores, the school will give them a scholarship to cover the rest of the cost.

Family C: Awesome! $10,000 is great, but our school choice costs $20,000 a year. How do I pay the rest?
Abbott: Since your child didn't have the best test scores, it's not our problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family D: Awesome! But, my child has autism and the private school doesn't have any programs to deal with that.
Abbott: Not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family E: So awesome! What time will the bus be by to pick up my child?

Abbott: It won't, but it's not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.
Family F: Awesome! But, my child has an IEP for his special needs and our school of choice doesn't have programs to help him.
Abbott: Not my problem. Go to the now underfunded public school.

Family G: I homeschool already and the $10,000 will be so nice to help us.
Abbott: Yes! Just make sure you get all your curriculum from MY approved vendors list. I want the control. Oh by the way, how does the STAAR test sound? You will trade your freedom for funding!

Public School: How is taking only high test scorers with no special needs who can provide their own transportation (which usually equates to being middle or upper class) going to shrink the gap between the
highest and lowest achieving students?
Abbott: Not my problem. Do more with less. I'm just happy that my rich donors are now happy with their discount and I know my kid doesn't have to sit next to a poor kid or one with a learning disability in class. Win-win for everyone! By the way, your special education student test scores WILL be counted towards your school test score average.

Public Schools: That's not really fair. That's not comparing apples to apples since the private schools don't have to accept kids who bring down their test score average.
Abbott: Not my problem. We will continue to make it look like YOU are the biggest failure in the world.

---

I have a good friend who homeschools post this exact same post, so it's going around the circles obviously. Yes, FB

If you take $10,000 from the government, when you would just be sitting at the house anyway because she is a stay at home mom and has been homeschooling the past 20 years, how do you think the curriculum wouldn't have to be from an approved list. You are taking government money to school kids. I am not sure of your point?

This is a simplist post and people who know the plan say inaccurate. I think you mean simplistic. Give a source that says this cartoon post is wrong.

Probably not the best plan available anyway, but this is a cartoon level explanation. Maybe so but accurate

---

---

When I said simplistic, I meant exactly that. It tries to make simple something that is very complex. My friend honestly isn't very smart. She is extremely conservative though, so don't take it that all conservatives like the plan, they don't.

My point, was if you take government funding, you should educate at the level required by their mandates. Not just simply what some Homeschool momma wants to endoctrinate their kids with. Just don't take any money if you want to freelance it.

My source, my brothers and both sisters in law for one, all of whom have or do work at the administrative level in public school districts. They think the post is goofy, even though they are 100% against vouchers.

Although I agree with the right to be homeschooled, there are some pretty dumb folks who are doing it. I went to a church years ago who was a huge H/S proponent. Some of the folks doing it were simply dumb, and their kids "graduated" with a substandard education.

I believe there does need to be a standard. Inner city schools, some homeschooled kids even some junky private schools are getting a below standard education.

All schools need to live up to minimum standards.


I'm not really a big supporter of this plan. I am a big supporter of Inner city kids not being stuck in their ****ty educational environment however. I don't know the best answer of getting them a quality education on the level of Highland Park, Plano, Anna, Celina, Southlake or other affluent school districts, but they sure as heck should not be stuck in what is essentially a "separate but equal" educational environment.

While I support vouchers, just know that the cost of private K-12 schools will increase more quickly due to the free money. It will increase prices.

More private schools will open as well, but the competition won't be free market exactly due to the free money.

Also know that your ISD tax rates will likely go up eventually as well.

But this is a step in the right direction to incentivize schools to get better, that or get left behind. To be clear, many city schools are already at the left behind level - and it's not due to money. It's due to progressive policies.

I read something from the pro voucher side that had some insightful things in it about why it would not be the huge gut to public schools like many claim.

1. It pointed out how most private schools in the state are already at max student body population. It will take time for them to build more schools, more rooms, etc to accommodate more students. Since most private schools like the smaller class size they probably won't increase class size just because of this. So the number of kids leaving public schools to go to a private school will be low to start.

2. In many areas of the state there are no private schools at all. I forget the numbers they used but it showed how out of 254 counties in the state it was like 30 or 40 something counties that had private schools. Then it broke it down even more to show that within counties the closest private school could still be a long way away. Which got me to thinking about the Waco area/ McLennan county. Mart, Crawford, valley mills, etc are not really close to any private schools. Even within closer areas like Lorena, McGregor, Robinson, etc. they still are a good drive away from the private schools. In larger cities it is the same usually. Just add in traffic times.

3. Since most private schools have a religious aspect tied to them a large number of parents will be hesitant to send their kids there any ways.

4. It forces the public schools to actually want to change, get rid of bad teachers and not just coast by knowing they are the only option for kids in their attendance zones.

Of course I support school choice, but not the government giving out vouchers.

The issue is the same issue as the government getting involved with student loans. This is essentially the green light for private schools to up their prices. Government does need to be subsidizing education, don't get me wrong, but if it simply gives out cash to the student/parents, there is little oversight that can be done. It needs to directly give to the schools and have oversight at the local level, so the middle class doesn't get priced out of schools they could afford without the vouchers.

In 5-10 years, there will be a big problem with this. People will have to switch to public school because the costs have gone up. I mean, they're already getting ridiculous. I have family paying 50k per year for high school.

cowboycwr said:

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I read something from the pro voucher side that had some insightful things in it about why it would not be the huge gut to public schools like many claim.

1. It pointed out how most private schools in the state are already at max student body population. It will take time for them to build more schools, more rooms, etc to accommodate more students. Since most private schools like the smaller class size they probably won't increase class size just because of this. So the number of kids leaving public schools to go to a private school will be low to start.

2. In many areas of the state there are no private schools at all. I forget the numbers they used but it showed how out of 254 counties in the state it was like 30 or 40 something counties that had private schools. Then it broke it down even more to show that within counties the closest private school could still be a long way away. Which got me to thinking about the Waco area/ McLennan county. Mart, Crawford, valley mills, etc are not really close to any private schools. Even within closer areas like Lorena, McGregor, Robinson, etc. they still are a good drive away from the private schools. In larger cities it is the same usually. Just add in traffic times.

3. Since most private schools have a religious aspect tied to them a large number of parents will be hesitant to send their kids there any ways.

4. It forces the public schools to actually want to change, get rid of bad teachers and not just coast by knowing they are the only option for kids in their attendance zones.

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5. The schools easily figure out that parents who can pay 17k per year right now, can still pay 17k next year, but will actually be able to pay 24k with a 7k voucher, so how can we get to 24k as fast as possible?

Actually I'm using the voucher number from another state, insert whatever number is applicable to TX.

I don't like the idea of the money going directly to the schools. It should go directly to the families. My children go to private school and I pay school taxes. So, Yes - I'm all in favor of having vouchers. If a child can't academically qualify for a certain private school, they still have options for alternative better educational public schools options; however, strict academic and discipline rules need to be put in place for anyone using vouchers outside their normal district. And quiet frankly, they should open trade schools for those kids who really don't like school and let them attend those vs high school - there is a glaring need for more workers in these areas.

Dear @GregAbbott_TX,

Please hear us when we say this… @THSCAcoaches DO NOT STAND WITH YOU! We are against this crap! Provide funding equally for all of OUR kids and stop this corruption! https://t.co/ss4cO9bQ9c

— Wes Wood (@wesgwood12) February 25, 2025

El Oso said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Thoughtful response. Thank you. You keep repeating the phrase "Not the government's problem". The point is the voucher is of no help to those in special educational needs. These kids become by default the government's problem and the government in under funding public schools who must provide for the concerns.

---

Again, you're misrepresenting things. I'm starting to think it's deliberate.so we are in my wheelhouse and you aren't going to pull the wool over my eyes. To be fair, one of them is in the gifted program, but if you know how education budgets and administrations run, the gifted program is under the special education department. (By the way, GT kids hate it when they find out they are considered special ed. It's a little funny to watch their mind blow. They assumed special ed means learning problems.) How did I misrepresent S Ed? The point is your attends public school and those children have to accepted. NO requirement is placed on private education.

The other one, as I noted in the earlier post, has a pretty elaborate 504 plan. It's pretty elaborate because I knew what to do when it was being created. I started it in kindergarten when the very first warning sign was demonstrated. Most students aren't even tested for what he has (and roughly 10% of all children have it) until third grade under district evaluation schedules. Then I got a teacher to document the sign and express a "concern" regarding it in a parent conference at the end of the first six weeks. We then created an IEP with a concerned parent, a concerned teacher, and a school counselor during the second six weeks. Then we used the IEP to transition to a 504 after Christmas break when we had even more data to prove there was a fire where we saw a concern. It just involves being an involved, and sometimes relentless, parent. True and glad you are relentless but the vouchers are not issue for your concerns. BTW, what IEP?

I will repeat it again. My kid's educational needs are not the government's problem. They are mine. And an argument can be made that vouchers help parents meet those needs in the way parents want them met. Fortunately, my kids' ISD is one of the best in the state. If it wasn't, and vouchers existed, I could use a school voucher to place my son in a school that I felt better met his educational needs. The voucher would not only make that possible logistically (I don't have to pay attention to the lines school districts draw on a map anymore), but it would help me pay for it. I fail to see how that doesn't help those Yes, your child is the concern of the government. I am not sure of your burden but as a citizen with no children in public schools I still want the state to be generous with your child and your family. All our citizens deserve a terrific public school education. Look, we are in this society together from the least of us to richest of us. I want my tax $ spent on public not private schools.

I don't support the school voucher plan, but it is by no means the demon you have painted it to be. My thoughtful post dismantled every half truth to outright lie you posted to start this thread. If you want to have a thoughtful conversation about this issue, it starts with representing things truthfully, not in half-truths and out right lies. Yeah vouchers are the demon I make them out to be. The poor do not have to pay for the rich kid's education.

---

Again, a reasoned response which is appreciated.

You said, and this is a quote, "The point is the voucher is of no help to those in special educational needs." That's a blatant lie. I tried to be nice and call it a misrepresentation. I could create a long list here, but I'll give but one example. John Doe's son has a learning disability. He's supposed to go to a Title I school because of the district they live, but the school is dangerous and the parents don't get a good vibe about that school. They want him to go to Shelton High School. This school specializes in the treatment or accommodation of students with learning disabilities. It has grown into an international demonstration, resource and research center. (That's a direct quote from their website). Problem is, John Doe's parents can't afford it. Shelton High School is around 20k/year. With school vouchers, they could get, let's say 10k in vouchers. They save $1k/month cutting things from their budget or get a second job and all the sudden, John Doe can now go to one of the premier special ed schools not just in Dallas, but in the nation. That's a whole lot more than as you say, "no help to those in special education needs." You aren't going to be able to pass of lies on this issue. I've been in the business for 20 years here in Dallas. I have a really good idea how it works. And I'm not the only career educator perusing this thread.

In layman's terms (and this is a simplification), IEPs are extensions of 504 plans. They cannot be ignored if your school receives federal funding. You don't even seem to understand how 504 plans actually work, but you have included them in your argument from the beginning. As I said in my very first post, these plans cannot be ignored if you receive federal funding. If you don't, they can be. And I'm okay with schools not having to do something they don't receive money for. Nobody really tries to get Baylor to stop requiring chapel even though not all Baylor students are Christians. Baylor is a private institution and doesn't have to play by public college rules on certain things. The same should apply to pre-college schools.

No, my children are of no concern to the federal government. And on this we will probably never agree, but you're only using it to distort the real issue. But let me for a moment change my mind and say they are. This means the government is now responsible for ensuring the well being of my children. Awesome. An argument could be made school vouchers do just that. Go back and read the first paragraph in this post. Because the government stepped in, my kid can now attend Shelton High School where I couldn't make that happen on my own. Maybe I should rethink my position on who is responsible for my children. This could save me a lot of money.

Yes, you continue to demonize something that is not demonic. School vouchers will be paid for through tax dollars and distributed to families who apply for them. The dollar amount would vary based on need. In other words, the less money you make, the higher your voucher is likely to be.

Again, vouchers in my opinion are problematic, but I'm not trying to spread out right lies to get people to think that. You should stop spreading these lies. Learn how the system actually works and then tell us why vouchers won't improve the situation. There's a lot of research out there that doesn't come from made up Facebook posts you could actually use.

Porteroso said:

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Of course I support school choice, but not the government giving out vouchers.

The issue is the same issue as the government getting involved with student loans. This is essentially the green light for private schools to up their prices. Government does need to be subsidizing education, don't get me wrong, but if it simply gives out cash to the student/parents, there is little oversight that can be done. It needs to directly give to the schools and have oversight at the local level, so the middle class doesn't get priced out of schools they could afford without the vouchers.

In 5-10 years, there will be a big problem with this. People will have to switch to public school because the costs have gone up. I mean, they're already getting ridiculous. I have family paying 50k per year for high school.

---

Bingo. This is easily in the top five, and probably the top three, reasons why school vouchers are not a good idea. When the federal government got involved in the college loan business, the price of college ballooned out of reach for a lot of people. There is a lot of evidence the exact same thing will happen with school vouchers. If colleges adjusted tuition to meet available funding, so will pre college schools eventually.

cowboycwr said:

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I read something from the pro voucher side that had some insightful things in it about why it would not be the huge gut to public schools like many claim.

1. It pointed out how most private schools in the state are already at max student body population. It will take time for them to build more schools, more rooms, etc to accommodate more students. Since most private schools like the smaller class size they probably won't increase class size just because of this. So the number of kids leaving public schools to go to a private school will be low to start.

2. In many areas of the state there are no private schools at all. I forget the numbers they used but it showed how out of 254 counties in the state it was like 30 or 40 something counties that had private schools. Then it broke it down even more to show that within counties the closest private school could still be a long way away. Which got me to thinking about the Waco area/ McLennan county. Mart, Crawford, valley mills, etc are not really close to any private schools. Even within closer areas like Lorena, McGregor, Robinson, etc. they still are a good drive away from the private schools. In larger cities it is the same usually. Just add in traffic times.

3. Since most private schools have a religious aspect tied to them a large number of parents will be hesitant to send their kids there any ways.

4. It forces the public schools to actually want to change, get rid of bad teachers and not just coast by knowing they are the only option for kids in their attendance zones.

---

Another list of things we should actually be discussing instead of the misrepresentations and out right lies that started this thread.

I don't think #3 would actually happen on a large scale, but it will definitely happen on some scale. My atheist brother sent his daughter to Catholic school because public schools in his state are really bad, but not all atheists will follow suit. And I grew up Baptist. No way in hell my parents would have sent me to Catholic school--even if the voucher covered all of it.

El Oso said:

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You said, and this is a quote, "The point is the voucher is of no help to those in special educational needs." That's a blatant lie. I tried to be nice and call it a misrepresentation. I could create a long list here, but I'll give but one example. John Doe's son has a learning disability. He's supposed to go to a Title I school because of the district they live, but the school is dangerous and the parents don't get a good vibe about that school. They want him to go to Shelton High School. This school specializes in the treatment or accommodation of students with learning disabilities. It has grown into an international demonstration, resource and research center. (That's a direct quote from their website). Problem is, John Doe's parents can't afford it. Shelton High School is around 20k/year. With school vouchers, they could get, let's say 10k in vouchers. They save $1k/month cutting things from their budget or get a second job and all the sudden, John Doe can now go to one of the premier special ed schools not just in Dallas, but in the nation. That's a whole lot more than as you say, "no help to those in special education needs." You aren't going to be able to pass of lies on this issue. I've been in the business for 20 years here in Dallas. I have a really good idea how it works. And I'm not the only career educator perusing this thread.

In layman's terms (and this is a simplification), IEPs are extensions of 504 plans. They cannot be ignored if your school receives federal funding. You don't even seem to understand how 504 plans actually work, but you have included them in your argument from the beginning. As I said in my very first post, these plans cannot be ignored if you receive federal funding. If you don't, they can be. And I'm okay with schools not having to do something they don't receive money for. Nobody really tries to get Baylor to stop requiring chapel even though not all Baylor students are Christians. Baylor is a private institution and doesn't have to play by public college rules on certain things. The same should apply to pre-college schools.

No, my children are of no concern to the federal government. And on this we will probably never agree, but you're only using it to distort the real issue. But let me for a moment change my mind and say they are. This means the government is now responsible for ensuring the well being of my children. Awesome. An argument could be made school vouchers do just that. Go back and read the first paragraph in this post. Because the government stepped in, my kid can now attend Shelton High School where I couldn't make that happen on my own. Maybe I should rethink my position on who is responsible for my children. This could save me a lot of money.

Yes, you continue to demonize something that is not demonic. School vouchers will be paid for through tax dollars and distributed to families who apply for them. The dollar amount would vary based on need. In other words, the less money you make, the higher your voucher is likely to be.

Again, vouchers in my opinion are problematic, but I'm not trying to spread out right lies to get people to think that. You should stop spreading these lies. Learn how the system actually works and then tell us why vouchers won't improve the situation. There's a lot of research out there that doesn't come from made up Facebook posts you could actually use.

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Thanks for correcting 47. I have a friend that has a special needs kid and her view is that public schools were terrible for him, and that the private schools were amazing. Her son went through several schools. Now it could just be his special need wasn't handled well by just a few schools. I don't know, but I'm guessing parents will move their "special needs" kids to the schools that cater best to them. I also suspect that means that some private schools will open up specifically to cater to special needs.
That is just one example of a special needs mom, she is definitely for vouchers, and I'm guessing there will be many more happy to be given a choice.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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This all really is a distraction for the actual issues:
- We spend more / student than ever before
- We have more reliance on federal overlords for dollars than ever before
- Our outcomes vs. the world are worse than ever before

Am I the only one that did not think 47 would be excited to start a private school centered around grooming kids?

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We need to improve schools for sure but always be careful when comparing to other countries. Especially high school. Some countries the grades don't match up as our 12th grade is really either a college prep or trade school prep year. Also, some countries only count their college bound students for test scores (because they are the only ones who take them) so they only count their college cream of their crop while we count everyone.