Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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boognish_bear said:

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New bill filed in Oklahoma that says every public university in the state must have a "Charlie Kirk Memorial Plaza" with a statue of Kirk and his family. pic.twitter.com/WGWxzW9efw

— Jeffrey Sachs (@JeffreyASachs) September 19, 2025

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I wonder what they'll do with all of those statues when they figure out Charlie was converting to Catholicism and distancing himself from white supremacy and genocide. Could be very awkward.

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Lol. And I hear Candace Owens converted him.

In other news, he also believed Mrs. Macron is a man and a Jewish cabal is running the country.

---

National Catholic Register
September 19, 2025

Slain conservative activist Charlie Kirk was reportedly strongly considering becoming Catholic just prior to his assassination, according to a bishop who spoke to him shortly before his killing.

Robert Brennan, a Los Angeles-based writer and the brother of Fresno, California, Bishop Joseph Brennan, said in a Sept. 18 column in the Los Angeles archdiocesan newspaper Angelus that Kirk had a "personal exchange" with the California prelate about a week before Kirk's murder at Utah Valley University on Sept. 10.

The writer Brennan, who said Bishop Brennan gave him permission to share the story, wrote that Kirk had spoken to the prelate at a prayer breakfast in Visalia. The conservative activist "told the bishop about his Catholic wife and children and how he attended Mass with them."

Kirk acknowledged "speculation" about his possible interest in becoming Catholic, Brennan wrote in Angelus; he subsequently told Bishop Brennan: "I'm this close" to converting.

In his Angelus column Brennan pointed to a recent video Kirk made in which he acknowledged some "big disagreements" with Catholicism but claimed that Protestants "under-value" the Blessed Mother.

"We don't talk about Mary enough. We don't venerate her enough," Kirk said, arguing that Mary is "the solution" to "toxic feminism" in the U.S.

"[H]ow fitting one of Charlie Kirk's last videos was about the preeminent mediatrix of all time and space," Robert Brennan wrote in Angelus. "In his own way he was reaching out to her, and now, I am convinced, she is returning the favor."

Prominent Catholics around the world have joined in the chorus of voices mourning Kirk's death in the days since he was killed. German Catholic Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Mller referred to Kirk this week as "a martyr for Jesus Christ" and condemned the "satanic celebration" of his death by some of his detractors.

Kristan Hawkins, the president of Students for Life of America and Students for Life Action and a close friend of Kirk's, said on Sept. 13 that the activist's death "will be a turning point" for the country.

And Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts said Kirk's activism "restored optimism about the American future for millions of Americans."

https://www.ncregister.com/cna/report-charlie-kirk-was-this-close-to-becoming-catholic-just-prior-to-his-death

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And now according to Catholic doctrine, he's likely burning in hell.

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Not really.

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Unlikely he repented or confessed prior to getting shot. Probably didn't say a Hail Mary. So yeah.

Bummer

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God has infinite mercy but that is certainly possible. Hopefully hes in purgatory now.

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Catholic faith in a nutshell. We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

You poor lost souls.

Jack Bauer said:

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Get married.

Have children.

Build a legacy.

Pass down your values.

Pursue the eternal.

Seek true joy.

- Charlie Kirk pic.twitter.com/ZZv1toyxGR

— Turning Point UK 🇬🇧 (@TPointUK) September 20, 2025

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Sam Lowry: damn that white supremacy!

Sam Lowry said:

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KaiBear said:

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No doubt this huge crowd will begin burning all the cities in Arizona and looting all the bookstores.

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Pretty sure Republicans do it the other way around.

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To use your words - which never happened ever.

Assassin said:

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Every seat in this giant arena that isn’t roped off for security is packed to the ceiling. Honored to be here.

All for Charlie Kirk. pic.twitter.com/NDK6sDuqLa

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) September 21, 2025

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A bunch of white supremacists I guess.

william said:

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Says it all.

william said:

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Are those our choices?

Mitch Blood Green said:

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william said:

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Are those our choices?

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Usual deflection.

Face it....your people are far more destructive.

Mitch Blood Green said:

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william said:

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Are those our choices?

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Until someone else dies, yes

Mothra said:

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We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

ScottS said:

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Think Sam and 1947 would vote for him?

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Personally, I think Sam is reachable. He and I share opinions about Ukraine and what is currently going on in Gaza with Israel's overreach. I think at some point on the Democrat escalator to hell, he will do a U-turn. While I think his facts are wrong, I think he still tries to reason through things as he sees them.

1947, I don't think Anakin still exists behind that black mask.

BUDOS said:

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According to our founding fathers, is the first amendment supposed to exist for all Americans or just the ones the left agrees with? The right? Average Americans? Moderate Americans? You?

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Everybody of course.

Incredibly stupid words have gotten people fired though, since people have been employed people have been fired for things they said.

That will never change.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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william said:

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Are those our choices?

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Until someone else dies, yes

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We don't get to compare the deaths at Mother Emanuel Church (citizen gun violence) to Charlie Kirk (citizen gun violence)? (Because those were Chrisitian killed doing a Christian Act).

What about comparing the 2008 Election Change of Power to the 2020 Election Change of Power? Or The John McCaine Eulogy to the Charlie Kirk Eulogy?

No?

I'd even accept the meme facts being correct.

KaiBear said:

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Mitch Blood Green said:

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william said:

---

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Are those our choices?

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Usual deflection.

Face it....your people are far more destructive.

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My people? Let's clarify that, first.

Realitybites said:

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Mothra said:

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We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

If you have complete confidence in Jesus Christ, then you would have complete confidence in his word. And his word directly tells us that we can have complete confidence in our salvation: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." - 1 John 5:13

Mitch Blood Green said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Mitch Blood Green said:

---

william said:

---

---

Are those our choices?

---

Until someone else dies, yes

---

We don't get to compare the deaths at Mother Emanuel Church (citizen gun violence) to Charlie Kirk (citizen gun violence)? (Because those were Chrisitian killed doing a Christian Act).

What about comparing the 2008 Election Change of Power to the 2020 Election Change of Power? Or The John McCaine Eulogy to the Charlie Kirk Eulogy?

No?

I'd even accept the meme facts being correct.

---

LOL

What a mind bending deflection of the bloody obvious.

Why don't you just say your people are entitled to a double standard ?

They are entitled to riot, burn , loot and kill whenever they feel like it ?

Statistics don't lie, and they are horrific.

Realitybites said:

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Mothra said:

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We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

It seems you are misunderstanding my words, and are mistaking the phrase "confidence in my salvation" for "confidence in something I have done to earn salvation." That is most definitely not what I have said or suggested. We cannot earn our salvation. Indeed, contrary to Catholic doctrine, there is nothing we can do on our own accord to be saved. Instead, it is Christ's work within us that saves us.

The confidence I am talking about comes in the confidence in God's promises.

"And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God." 1 John 4:2

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:9-10

"We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death." 1 John 3:14

Doc Holliday said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

If you have complete confidence in Jesus Christ, then you would have complete confidence in his word. And his word directly tells us that we can have complete confidence in our salvation: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life." - 1 John 5:13

---

Amen.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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BUDOS said:

---

According to our founding fathers, is the first amendment supposed to exist for all Americans or just the ones the left agrees with? The right? Average Americans? Moderate Americans? You?

---

Everybody of course.

Incredibly stupid words have gotten people fired though, since people have been employed people have been fired for things they said.

That will never change.

---

"Cancel Culture" wasn't "Someone getting fired for something they said." It was "Pressuring employers to fire employees who say something that indicates that they do not fully subscribe to the latest progressive dogma." If you wanted an equivalent from the right, I would say it would be cancel culture if someone got fired for criticizing Trump's policies or even his personality. It is certainly not "Cancel Culture" to state that someone should be fired for celebrating or minimizing a political assassination.

historian said:

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Assassin said:

---

pic.twitter.com/NRT8iKStV8

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) September 21, 2025

---

Elon was probably more correct than he knew.

---

He has almost a Hollywood writer's way with words. Bless him

Yesterday when Erica Kirk publicly forgave Charlie Kirk’s shooter that assassinated him…

I must be frank with you…

It is totally, messing with my mind right now.

It’s like…

My “head” gets it logically…

But my heart feels something different.

My heart is screaming……

— MAGA Scotty (@MAGAScotty) September 22, 2025

Truer words have never been spoken!

Erika Kirk’s full speech at Building a Legacy: Remembering Charlie Kirk@mrserikakirk pic.twitter.com/bTrMLDpJPj

— Turning Point USA (@TPUSA) September 22, 2025

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

---

The key difference is how salvation itself is understood.

In Orthodoxy, salvation is not a one-time past event but a present, ongoing process of union with God. They don't measure salvation by "have I done enough?", because works are never a currency we pay for salvation. Instead, they are the natural fruit of God's life within us.

So when salvation is reduced to a one-time declaration without transformation, it's compromised. If someone claims to be saved but bears no fruit of repentance, love, or obedience, that's not true salvation, it's an incomplete and distorted version of it. I think you understand this.

This keeps the focus on union with God as the true measure, not tallying works or legalistic security.

"Once saved, always saved" is legalistic security. If you were the devil and your goal was to go after Christians, you would convince them that the work or process they've already gone through is enough. They could falsely believe that no matter what actions they take, no matter how sinful, they're good.

True salvation is a living, ongoing process and union with God. Security is found in this union which is a process and constant state of transformation.

OsoCoreyell said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

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BUDOS said:

---

According to our founding fathers, is the first amendment supposed to exist for all Americans or just the ones the left agrees with? The right? Average Americans? Moderate Americans? You?

---

Everybody of course.

Incredibly stupid words have gotten people fired though, since people have been employed people have been fired for things they said.

That will never change.

---

"Cancel Culture" wasn't "Someone getting fired for something they said." It was "Pressuring employers to fire employees who say something that indicates that they do not fully subscribe to the latest progressive dogma." If you wanted an equivalent from the right, I would say it would be cancel culture if someone got fired for criticizing Trump's policies or even his personality. It is certainly not "Cancel Culture" to state that someone should be fired for celebrating or minimizing a political assassination.

---

I would add a nuance ... originally, "Cancel Culture" was not when someone did something in the present to be cancelled; it was when people would go back to old social media posts, etc., and then be outraged. But regardless of time it was not related to a person's actual job but what they did outside of that ...

People also need to learn what is the First Amendment. No one has been arrested for something they said or wrote. People are not guaranteed a platform.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

---

The key difference is how salvation itself is understood.

In Orthodoxy, salvation is not a one-time past event but a present, ongoing process of union with God. They don't measure salvation by "have I done enough?", because works are never a currency we pay for salvation. Instead, they are the natural fruit of God's life within us.

So when salvation is reduced to a one-time declaration without transformation, it is compromised. If someone claims to be saved but bears no fruit of repentance, love, or obedience, that is not true salvation, it is an incomplete and distorted version of it.

This keeps the focus on union with God as the true measure, not tallying works or legalistic security.

"Once saved, always saved" is legalistic security. If you were the devil and your goal was to go after Christians, you would convince them that the work or process they've already gone through is enough. In that they could falsely believe that no matter what actions they take, no matter how sinful, they're good. That's not true unless they're truly exercising repentance, love, and obedience, which what Orthodoxy is about.

---

I agree with a lot of this. But I think scripture is also clear salvation is a one-time event, just like it was for the thief on the cross. I think Orthodoxy confuses salvation with sanctification, which scripture makes clear are two different things.

Your post seems to mistakenly reduce evangelical thought to allowing a sort of hedonistic lifestyle because we have a get out of free jail card. I know my church - a reformed evangelical church - certainly doesn't adhere to such belief.

Assassin said:

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historian said:

---

Assassin said:

---

pic.twitter.com/NRT8iKStV8

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) September 21, 2025

---

Elon was probably more correct than he knew.

---

He has almost a Hollywood writer's way with words.

---

Agreed

Far better than Trump.

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

---

The key difference is how salvation itself is understood.

In Orthodoxy, salvation is not a one-time past event but a present, ongoing process of union with God. They don't measure salvation by "have I done enough?", because works are never a currency we pay for salvation. Instead, they are the natural fruit of God's life within us.

So when salvation is reduced to a one-time declaration without transformation, it is compromised. If someone claims to be saved but bears no fruit of repentance, love, or obedience, that is not true salvation, it is an incomplete and distorted version of it.

This keeps the focus on union with God as the true measure, not tallying works or legalistic security.

"Once saved, always saved" is legalistic security. If you were the devil and your goal was to go after Christians, you would convince them that the work or process they've already gone through is enough. In that they could falsely believe that no matter what actions they take, no matter how sinful, they're good. That's not true unless they're truly exercising repentance, love, and obedience, which what Orthodoxy is about.

---

I agree with a lot of this. But I think scripture is also clear salvation is a one-time event, just like it was for the thief on the cross. I think Orthodoxy confuses salvation with sanctification, which scripture makes clear are two different things.

Your post seems to mistakenly reduce evangelical thought to allowing a sort of hedonistic lifestyle because we have a get out of free jail card. I know my church - a reformed evangelical church - certainly doesn't adhere to such belief.

---

That's not my case. Most Protestant churches don't adhere to that belief thankfully.

The case is that salvation and sanctification are inseparable.
Salvation is not simply a legal declaration, it is union with God's life. We are justified in order to be transformed, and that transformation, holiness, is never optional or automatic.

It's salvation in motion: the gift of grace received and lived out in repentance, obedience, and love.

I have absolute trust in God's mercy, but will never boast in claiming invulnerability. It would be a sin of pride to assume security in salvation alone. It shifts the focus from God's mercy to our own self-assurance.

So the way to think about this is that you never have to despair because God's mercy is greater than our sins. Never presume because we can fall at any moment if we become careless or proud.

Salvation and sanctification are synergistic.

Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Realitybites said:

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Mothra said:

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We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

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I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

---

The key difference is how salvation itself is understood.

In Orthodoxy, salvation is not a one-time past event but a present, ongoing process of union with God. They don't measure salvation by "have I done enough?", because works are never a currency we pay for salvation. Instead, they are the natural fruit of God's life within us.

So when salvation is reduced to a one-time declaration without transformation, it is compromised. If someone claims to be saved but bears no fruit of repentance, love, or obedience, that is not true salvation, it is an incomplete and distorted version of it.

This keeps the focus on union with God as the true measure, not tallying works or legalistic security.

"Once saved, always saved" is legalistic security. If you were the devil and your goal was to go after Christians, you would convince them that the work or process they've already gone through is enough. In that they could falsely believe that no matter what actions they take, no matter how sinful, they're good. That's not true unless they're truly exercising repentance, love, and obedience, which what Orthodoxy is about.

---

I agree with a lot of this. But I think scripture is also clear salvation is a one-time event, just like it was for the thief on the cross. I think Orthodoxy confuses salvation with sanctification, which scripture makes clear are two different things.

Your post seems to mistakenly reduce evangelical thought to allowing a sort of hedonistic lifestyle because we have a get out of free jail card. I know my church - a reformed evangelical church - certainly doesn't adhere to such belief.

---

That's not my case. Most Protestant churches don't adhere to that belief thankfully.

The case is that salvation and sanctification are inseparable.
Salvation is not simply a legal declaration, it is union with God's life. We are justified in order to be transformed, and that transformation, holiness, is never optional or automatic.

It's salvation in motion: the gift of grace received and lived out in repentance, obedience, and love.

I have absolute trust in God's mercy, but will never boast in claiming invulnerability. It would be a sin of pride to assume security in salvation alone.

Salvation and sanctification are synergistic.

---

Again, there isn't much disagreement here. I just think the two are different concepts that can in some ways be separated. The thief on the cross is arguably not sanctified. He died right after he was saved. With other believers who live a long life, we can look at the sanctification process, and determine if they are the seed that fell on shallow ground, or the seed that took deep roots into the soil and bore fruit.

Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

---

The key difference is how salvation itself is understood.

In Orthodoxy, salvation is not a one-time past event but a present, ongoing process of union with God. They don't measure salvation by "have I done enough?", because works are never a currency we pay for salvation. Instead, they are the natural fruit of God's life within us.

So when salvation is reduced to a one-time declaration without transformation, it is compromised. If someone claims to be saved but bears no fruit of repentance, love, or obedience, that is not true salvation, it is an incomplete and distorted version of it.

This keeps the focus on union with God as the true measure, not tallying works or legalistic security.

"Once saved, always saved" is legalistic security. If you were the devil and your goal was to go after Christians, you would convince them that the work or process they've already gone through is enough. In that they could falsely believe that no matter what actions they take, no matter how sinful, they're good. That's not true unless they're truly exercising repentance, love, and obedience, which what Orthodoxy is about.

---

I agree with a lot of this. But I think scripture is also clear salvation is a one-time event, just like it was for the thief on the cross. I think Orthodoxy confuses salvation with sanctification, which scripture makes clear are two different things.

Your post seems to mistakenly reduce evangelical thought to allowing a sort of hedonistic lifestyle because we have a get out of free jail card. I know my church - a reformed evangelical church - certainly doesn't adhere to such belief.

---

That's not my case. Most Protestant churches don't adhere to that belief thankfully.

The case is that salvation and sanctification are inseparable.
Salvation is not simply a legal declaration, it is union with God's life. We are justified in order to be transformed, and that transformation, holiness, is never optional or automatic.

It's salvation in motion: the gift of grace received and lived out in repentance, obedience, and love.

I have absolute trust in God's mercy, but will never boast in claiming invulnerability. It would be a sin of pride to assume security in salvation alone.

Salvation and sanctification are synergistic.

---

Again, there isn't much disagreement here. I just think the two are different concepts that can in some ways be separated. The thief on the cross is arguably not sanctified. He died right after he was saved. With other believers who live a long life, we can look at the sanctification process, and determine if they are the seed that fell on shallow ground, or the seed that took deep roots into the soil and bore fruit.

---

The thief on the cross was sanctified because of his humility, he begged, "Remember me, Lord.". In that one moment he showed humility, repentance, faith, and love. Is that not the work of sanctification?

For me, salvation means I never have to despair, because God's mercy is greater than all my sins. I have confidence that I can be saved, but I don't presume it, because I know I can fall if I become careless or proud.

Sadly, we see that some people truly believe, then later reject Christ and work to prevent others from accepting Christ. That shows me that salvation is a living relationship, not a one-time guarantee.

I know for a fact that if I assumed security in salvation, I would not fear the Lord.

Phil. 2:12

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

We can't have any confidence in our salvation. Just have to hope we've done enough and don't end up in a fictional, place never mentioned in scripture.

---

I have zero "confidence in my salvation". I have complete confidence in Christ and his judgements. He is the savior, and I bow the knee to him.

Claiming absolute confidence in one's salvation is an easy way to end up with this crowd.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

---

Yep.

Faith without works is dead. True faith is shown forth in obedience to the Lord's commandments. Yet no man is without sin, nor can any man perfectly obey.

The Christian life is not one of assuming our own salvation. No it's a constant state of humility and repentance.

I see myself as garbage and beg the lord to show mercy and to forgive me knowing I don't deserve it whatsoever. We must align ourselves with His will so that His grace can transform us.

Orthodoxy has it right: it's Theosis.

---

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling," a phrase from Philippians 2:12, calls believers to actively engage in their spiritual journey with a humble, awe-filled reverence for God, not out of fear of losing salvation, but as a deep respect for His majesty and holiness. It signifies a continuous, diligent effort to live out the salvation already received through Christ, demonstrating faith in daily actions and choices that please God, knowing that it is God Himself who works within us to bring about His good pleasure.

The idea that we cannot have some semblance of salvific security is the opposite of Christ's words in scripture. That doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly examine our walk, and our actions, to ensure there is no stumbling block. But it doesn't mean we have to constantly worry - have I done enough works, or have I repented enough to be saved. That kind of mindset is antithetical to Paul's words that it is by grace alone we have been saved.

If that's not what orthodoxy teaches, then it is most definitely in the wrong.

---

The key difference is how salvation itself is understood.

In Orthodoxy, salvation is not a one-time past event but a present, ongoing process of union with God. They don't measure salvation by "have I done enough?", because works are never a currency we pay for salvation. Instead, they are the natural fruit of God's life within us.

So when salvation is reduced to a one-time declaration without transformation, it is compromised. If someone claims to be saved but bears no fruit of repentance, love, or obedience, that is not true salvation, it is an incomplete and distorted version of it.

This keeps the focus on union with God as the true measure, not tallying works or legalistic security.

"Once saved, always saved" is legalistic security. If you were the devil and your goal was to go after Christians, you would convince them that the work or process they've already gone through is enough. In that they could falsely believe that no matter what actions they take, no matter how sinful, they're good. That's not true unless they're truly exercising repentance, love, and obedience, which what Orthodoxy is about.

---

I agree with a lot of this. But I think scripture is also clear salvation is a one-time event, just like it was for the thief on the cross. I think Orthodoxy confuses salvation with sanctification, which scripture makes clear are two different things.

Your post seems to mistakenly reduce evangelical thought to allowing a sort of hedonistic lifestyle because we have a get out of free jail card. I know my church - a reformed evangelical church - certainly doesn't adhere to such belief.

---

That's not my case. Most Protestant churches don't adhere to that belief thankfully.

The case is that salvation and sanctification are inseparable.
Salvation is not simply a legal declaration, it is union with God's life. We are justified in order to be transformed, and that transformation, holiness, is never optional or automatic.

It's salvation in motion: the gift of grace received and lived out in repentance, obedience, and love.

I have absolute trust in God's mercy, but will never boast in claiming invulnerability. It would be a sin of pride to assume security in salvation alone.

Salvation and sanctification are synergistic.

---

Again, there isn't much disagreement here. I just think the two are different concepts that can in some ways be separated. The thief on the cross is arguably not sanctified. He died right after he was saved. With other believers who live a long life, we can look at the sanctification process, and determine if they are the seed that fell on shallow ground, or the seed that took deep roots into the soil and bore fruit.

---

The thief on the cross was sanctified because of his humility, he begged, "Remember me, Lord.". In that one moment he showed humility, repentance, faith, and love. Is that not the work of sanctification?

For me, salvation means I never have to despair, because God's mercy is greater than all my sins. I have confidence that I can be saved, but I don't presume it, because I know I can fall if I become careless or proud.

Sadly, we see that some people truly believe, then later reject Christ and work to prevent others from accepting Christ. That shows me that salvation is a living relationship, not a one-time guarantee.

I know for a fact that if I assumed security in salvation, I would not fear the Lord.

Phil. 2:12

---

I hear you. I think the question is, did they truly believe? I think our answer to this question is likely where we diverge. I would say no, because salvation cannot be lost. I believe scripture is VERY clear on this point. Once we have the Holy Spirit, he does not depart.

I think those who "fall away" from the faith were never saved to begin with. It may have looked like they were, but it didn't take. A true conversion cannot be reversed.

Assassin said:

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Yesterday when Erica Kirk publicly forgave Charlie Kirk’s shooter that assassinated him…

I must be frank with you…

It is totally, messing with my mind right now.

It’s like…

My “head” gets it logically…

But my heart feels something different.

My heart is screaming……

— MAGA Scotty (@MAGAScotty) September 22, 2025

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The name escapes me but I'm confident some here will know to whom I'm referring; the trial of the lady cop that shot the guy because she went into the wrong apartment.

I think it was the brother of the deceased that forgave the shooter while on the stand. I believe the judge gave the shooter her personal Bible.

It was very moving but not nearly as many people saw it as Erika Kirk forgiving her husband's shooter.

edit
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