ShooterTX said:
Redbrickbear said:
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Fre3dombear said:
Realitybites said:
historian said:
Some Catholics have confused biblical perspectives: those who place undue emphasis on Mary, for example. Jesus was divinely conceived, Mary was not. She was never perfect: she was a sinner like every human that ever lived except Jesus. She did not remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus and had no reason to do so. There is no reason for anyone to pray to Mary or bow to her since she cannot answer prayers and is not deserving of any special adoration (bordering on idolatry). Most important, Mary has nothing to do with anyone's salvation. Only Jesus can to that. There are Bible verses to back every single one of these points, none for the beliefs that some Catholics seem to have about Mary.
And that's just one issue. The same can be said about the Eucharist, chaste priests, praying to saints, the papacy, and other topics. IIRC, others have cited scriptures on these things above.
In the interests of not derailing this thread, you should cross post this to the how to get to heaven thread. I will limit my response here to your observation about the Eucharist in with this historical point: the oldest Christian communions share similar teachings about the Eucharist. The "its only a commemoration of the last supper" idea arose in the last 400 years downstream of Zwingli.
Ding ding ding. The protestant belief isnt even half as young as mohammad
The protestant belief is the same as the original disciples'. It is highly unlikely that even one disciple believed they were eating the literal body and drinking the literal blood of Jesus. Because if that was what Jesus meant, then Jesus was making his disciples sin by breaking God's Law against drinking blood. Which would then make Jesus a sinner, and thus, not the perfect Savior.
Talking about this has a big chance of turning this into a theology thread….but here I go contributing to the problem.
Needless to say the issue comes down to authority and where you place your emphasis.
To the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox that authority derives from the Bible but also from Church tradition and the concept of Apostolic authority passed down from leader to leader directly back to the Apostles you mentioned.
This is of course NOT something Protestantism as a global ever growing movement cares as much about. Nor does it care much for "unity"…as we can see since a movement that places maximum importance on the individual beliefs & experience with God and the text and their own personal decision on what it means.
Thus many many churches and constant new interpretations and new groups branching out living by their own interpretations.
This is of course more alien to the Apostolic Churches who place the emphasis on "what do the Church Fathers and Councils say"
Protestants will look skeptical on a teaching of Mary's perpetual virginity into her later life or that she did not die a normal human death (taken up into Heaven)
Catholics and Orthodox will not have much trouble believing this if the Church Fathers and Ecumenical councils of the universal church declare it to be an official teaching.
That seems to be a big riff between the two that can never really be resolved.
What do you mean when you say "church fathers"? A lot of people have different criteria for who was a church father.
Also, which ecumenical councils declared Mary's perpetual virginity and her taken up into heaven to be true?
It's quite amazing to think that Mary was taken up into heaven, and yet no one mentions it in Scripture. This had to have happened during the lifetime of Peter, Paul, Matthew, John and others... yet no mention of this amazing miracle?
It's an absurd false doctrine. In the OT only 3 people were taken up into heaven (Enoch & Elijah are two) and in the NT only Jesus after the resurrection. Likewise, there is no reason to believe in Mary's perpetual virginity. She was married to Joseph and they had children mentioned in scripture, some by name (Matthew 13:55).
When Catholics elevate Mary this way, they invites some to wonder if they are idolizing her. It's a logical conclusion from what appears to be an effort to place her on an equal footing with Jesus. Very clearly there is no reason in scripture for any such belief. Christianity is about the worship of Christ, the Son of God, not for His earthly mother who was as human (& sinful) as everyone else. Mary was chosen by God for a special role, just like Moses, the judges, & the prophets.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
