Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

People of all christian faiths seem to have sticking points of belief that are questionable to those who do not believe along with them.

Quote:

---

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

---

For now at least our knowledge and understanding are still "in part" or partial.
We all wait for that day when we can fully know.

I want to know by what authority Catholics think it is sound theology to pray to Mary.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

OsoCoreyell said:

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I want to know by what authority Catholics think it is sound theology to pray to Mary.

---

Practically all Christian churches believe that Christians can pray for and intercede for one another before God. I would guess that you do too.

Catholics and all other ancient Christian churches, including the Orthodox, believe that the saints in Heaven are alive in Christ and therefore can also pray for us. They have no intrinsic power beyond their ability to participate subordinately in Christ's universal mediation. For all of Mary's intercessory power, none of it originates from her. It all flows from Jesus, who allows Mother Mary and all other Christians to take part in it.

All of this is settled doctrine, uncontroversial among Catholics. The Catholic Church is very concerned that no religious terminology, even that which is well-intentioned, should detract from Jesus's unique and necessary role in our salvation. That is why this doctrinal clarification was issued in the first place.

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

Its good for them to be clear on this in words, but actions matter as much if not more. So
Of course they would answer no, but then they'd start their hail mary prayer.
Catholics have invented a mythos around Mary, being sinless, being a mediator, being an active spirit in this world, having a greater part in salvation in practice than the OP lets on.
It is effectively ancestor worship, or it resembles it in every way.
Catholics have taken veneration to the utmost of worship. Effectively conveying to her all the attributes of Christ, but yeah, sure they don't worship her. They do in every way except to label her the Christ. She is worthy of veneration, but to Catholics it is something more than veneration based on practice and actions.

Having said that I love and respect my devout Catholic friends, they can have bad theology in part and still find their way to Jesus. Same goes with prots. Sadly for both, many will not be with the Lord because their faith in Christ was merely words deep and not true belief.

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Sorry to have to be so blunt... but this is like a married man who is sleeping with another woman, but he insists he is not cheating because he stopped calling the other woman his "Co-Wife".

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

Its good for them to be clear on this in words, but actions matter as much if not more. So
Of course they would answer no, but then they'd start their hail mary prayer.
Catholics have invented a mythos around Mary, being sinless, being a mediator, being an active spirit in this world, having a greater part in salvation in practice than the OP lets on.
It is effectively ancestor worship, or it resembles it in every way.
Catholics have taken veneration to the utmost of worship. Effectively conveying to her all the attributes of Christ, but yeah, sure they don't worship her. They do in every way except to label her the Christ. She is worthy of veneration, but to Catholics it is something more than veneration based on practice and actions.

Having said that I love and respect my devout Catholic friends, they can have bad theology in part and still find their way to Jesus. Same goes with prots. Sadly for both, many will not be with the Lord because their faith in Christ was merely words deep and not true belief.

---

No devotion to any saint, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, is necessary for salvation in Catholic dogma.

Catholics are required to believe the four Marian dogmas, but if you actually read the explanations surrounding them, you will notice that they have very little to do to Mary's importance and very much to do with Jesus's importance. Mary's entire role in Catholic theology is to point believers toward Christ.

Every quality the Catholic Church assigns to Mary derives from her role as the Mother of God. She has no independent power or authority apart from that which is given to her by her Son, Jesus.

ARbear13 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

Its good for them to be clear on this in words, but actions matter as much if not more. So
Of course they would answer no, but then they'd start their hail mary prayer.
Catholics have invented a mythos around Mary, being sinless, being a mediator, being an active spirit in this world, having a greater part in salvation in practice than the OP lets on.
It is effectively ancestor worship, or it resembles it in every way.
Catholics have taken veneration to the utmost of worship. Effectively conveying to her all the attributes of Christ, but yeah, sure they don't worship her. They do in every way except to label her the Christ. She is worthy of veneration, but to Catholics it is something more than veneration based on practice and actions.

Having said that I love and respect my devout Catholic friends, they can have bad theology in part and still find their way to Jesus. Same goes with prots. Sadly for both, many will not be with the Lord because their faith in Christ was merely words deep and not true belief.

---

No devotion to any saint, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, is necessary for salvation in Catholic dogma.

Catholics are required to believe the four Marian dogmas, but if you actually read the explanations surrounding them, you will notice that they have very little to do to Mary's importance and very much to do with Jesus's importance. Mary's entire role in Catholic theology is to point believers toward Christ.

Every quality the Catholic Church assigns to Mary derives from her role as the Mother of God. She has no independent power or authority apart from that which is given to her by her Son, Jesus.

---

One doesnt have to assign salvation to a being to "worship" it. One just need to give the being God like qualities and then develop worshipping practices towards it. Lots of false gods in the world, not all of them are based on "salvation".

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Sorry to have to be so blunt... but this is like a married man who is sleeping with another woman, but he insists he is not cheating because he stopped calling the other woman his "Co-Wife".

---

Catholics have never worshipped Mary as any sort of divinity. You can't stop cheating on your wife if you never started.

There was once a small, heretical group in Arabia, called the Collyridians, that worshipped the Virgin Mary. Their heresy of Mary worship was explicitly condemned by the Catholic Church on the grounds of idolatry, and that condemnation has remained in force ever since.

Honor and worship are categorically different. I honor my parents, but I don't worship them because they are not God. Catholics greatly honor and respect the Blessed Virgin Mary, as befits her role as the Mother of our Savior, but we do not worship her. She is not God and therefore cannot be worshipped.

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

That would be amazing because I am certain that if I polled Protestants why they would go to heaven, a fair percentage would wrongly answer, they are a good person.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

Its good for them to be clear on this in words, but actions matter as much if not more. So
Of course they would answer no, but then they'd start their hail mary prayer.
Catholics have invented a mythos around Mary, being sinless, being a mediator, being an active spirit in this world, having a greater part in salvation in practice than the OP lets on.
It is effectively ancestor worship, or it resembles it in every way.
Catholics have taken veneration to the utmost of worship. Effectively conveying to her all the attributes of Christ, but yeah, sure they don't worship her. They do in every way except to label her the Christ. She is worthy of veneration, but to Catholics it is something more than veneration based on practice and actions.

Having said that I love and respect my devout Catholic friends, they can have bad theology in part and still find their way to Jesus. Same goes with prots. Sadly for both, many will not be with the Lord because their faith in Christ was merely words deep and not true belief.

---

No devotion to any saint, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, is necessary for salvation in Catholic dogma.

Catholics are required to believe the four Marian dogmas, but if you actually read the explanations surrounding them, you will notice that they have very little to do to Mary's importance and very much to do with Jesus's importance. Mary's entire role in Catholic theology is to point believers toward Christ.

Every quality the Catholic Church assigns to Mary derives from her role as the Mother of God. She has no independent power or authority apart from that which is given to her by her Son, Jesus.

---

One doesnt have to assign salvation to a being to "worship" it. One just need to give the being God like qualities and then develop worshipping practices towards it. Lots of false gods in the world, not all of them are based on "salvation".

---

Honor and respect are categorically different from worship. The Virgin Mary is greatly honored and respected in Catholicism, but she is not worshipped. Only the Trinitarian God may be worshipped in the Catholic Church. I literally taught an entire lesson on this to the middle schoolers in our parish youth group a few weeks ago while covering the First Commandment. It was the furthest thing from controversial.

The Catholic Church has an official position on basically everything. If the Catholic Church permitted its members to worship Mary, you would see that stated somewhere in Church teaching. You won't find it anywhere, from any period of the Church's history, because it has never been allowed.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ARbear13 said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

Its good for them to be clear on this in words, but actions matter as much if not more. So
Of course they would answer no, but then they'd start their hail mary prayer.
Catholics have invented a mythos around Mary, being sinless, being a mediator, being an active spirit in this world, having a greater part in salvation in practice than the OP lets on.
It is effectively ancestor worship, or it resembles it in every way.
Catholics have taken veneration to the utmost of worship. Effectively conveying to her all the attributes of Christ, but yeah, sure they don't worship her. They do in every way except to label her the Christ. She is worthy of veneration, but to Catholics it is something more than veneration based on practice and actions.

Having said that I love and respect my devout Catholic friends, they can have bad theology in part and still find their way to Jesus. Same goes with prots. Sadly for both, many will not be with the Lord because their faith in Christ was merely words deep and not true belief.

---

No devotion to any saint, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, is necessary for salvation in Catholic dogma.

Catholics are required to believe the four Marian dogmas, but if you actually read the explanations surrounding them, you will notice that they have very little to do to Mary's importance and very much to do with Jesus's importance. Mary's entire role in Catholic theology is to point believers toward Christ.

Every quality the Catholic Church assigns to Mary derives from her role as the Mother of God. She has no independent power or authority apart from that which is given to her by her Son, Jesus.

---

One doesnt have to assign salvation to a being to "worship" it. One just need to give the being God like qualities and then develop worshipping practices towards it. Lots of false gods in the world, not all of them are based on "salvation".

---

Self
Money
Status
Sports
Our kids achievements
Being the Joneses

All of the ca be gods while none offer salvation

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

That would be amazing because I certainly that if I polled Protestants why they would go to heaven, a fair percentage would wrongly answer, they are a good person.

---

I'm sure plenty of poorly catechized Catholics would say the same. There are billions of people on this planet that claim to follow a religion but put little effort into doing so. That doesn't change what those religions actually teach.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

Is God all-knowing?

ARbear13 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Sorry to have to be so blunt... but this is like a married man who is sleeping with another woman, but he insists he is not cheating because he stopped calling the other woman his "Co-Wife".

---

Catholics have never worshipped Mary as any sort of divinity. You can't stop cheating on your wife if you never started.

There was once a small, heretical group in Arabia, called the Collyridians, that worshipped the Virgin Mary. Their heresy of Mary worship was explicitly condemned by the Catholic Church on the grounds of idolatry, and that condemnation has remained in force ever since.

Honor and worship are categorically different. I honor my parents, but I don't worship them because they are not God. Catholics greatly honor and respect the Blessed Virgin Mary, as befits her role as the Mother of our Savior, but we do not worship her. She is not God and therefore cannot be worshipped.

---

RC's consistently deny that they've "divinized" Mary - but RC prayers, hymns, practices, and dogmas say otherwise.

But regardless, you don't have to consider Mary as divinity in order to be worshiping her. Roman Catholicism has constructed a completely artificial and arbitrary line between "honor" and "worship" in order to tell themselves they're not worshiping Mary or the saints. RC's have taken the "honor"/"veneration" of Mary way too far into the realm of actual worship, and they're trying to justify it as being okay based purely on ad hoc semantics. Unfortunately, I don't think God is going to subscribe to your artificial distinctions.

"Catholics have never worshiped Mary as any sort of divinity" - is akin to a married man who is sleeping with another woman saying "I have never slept with another woman.... as any sort of wife". Just because he doesn't consider her a wife doesn't mean that sleeping with her isn't cheating.

ARbear13 said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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ARbear13 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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ARbear13 said:

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Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

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Its good for them to be clear on this in words, but actions matter as much if not more. So
Of course they would answer no, but then they'd start their hail mary prayer.
Catholics have invented a mythos around Mary, being sinless, being a mediator, being an active spirit in this world, having a greater part in salvation in practice than the OP lets on.
It is effectively ancestor worship, or it resembles it in every way.
Catholics have taken veneration to the utmost of worship. Effectively conveying to her all the attributes of Christ, but yeah, sure they don't worship her. They do in every way except to label her the Christ. She is worthy of veneration, but to Catholics it is something more than veneration based on practice and actions.

Having said that I love and respect my devout Catholic friends, they can have bad theology in part and still find their way to Jesus. Same goes with prots. Sadly for both, many will not be with the Lord because their faith in Christ was merely words deep and not true belief.

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No devotion to any saint, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, is necessary for salvation in Catholic dogma.

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"...in Catholic dogma." I noticed that you're constantly using this kind of "escape" language. It's quite disingenuous. Mary being necessary for salvation may not be Catholic dogma, but it is and has been undeniably taught as doctrine:

• "O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee; none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee." (Pope Leo XIII, Adiutricem, 9)
• "no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother" (Pope Leo 13th, Octobri Mense)
• "She has been made the ladder to paradise, the gate of heaven, the most true mediatrix between God and human beings" (St. Lawrence Justinian)
• "Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone." (attributed to St. John Chrysostom, by St. Alphonsus Ligouri)
• "No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain." (St. Bonaventure)
• "All those who seek Mary's protection will be saved for all eternity." (Pope Benedict XV)
• "Mary's intercession is not only useful but necessary for salvation.... " (St. Alphonsus Ligouri, Doctor of the Roman Catholic Church)
• "Mary is the road we must travel to reach God" (Pope Francis, paraphrased)
• "God has entrusted the keys and treasures of Heaven to Mary." (St. Thomas Aquinas)
• "The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." (Pope Pius IX)

OsoCoreyell said:

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I want to know by what authority Catholics think it is sound theology to pray to Mary.

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Ya think Jesus Christ's mother doesn't have his ear up in heaven? Like he just listens to her the same way he listens to you and me?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Sorry to have to be so blunt... but this is like a married man who is sleeping with another woman, but he insists he is not cheating because he stopped calling the other woman his "Co-Wife".

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Catholics have never worshipped Mary as any sort of divinity. You can't stop cheating on your wife if you never started.

There was once a small, heretical group in Arabia, called the Collyridians, that worshipped the Virgin Mary. Their heresy of Mary worship was explicitly condemned by the Catholic Church on the grounds of idolatry, and that condemnation has remained in force ever since.

Honor and worship are categorically different. I honor my parents, but I don't worship them because they are not God. Catholics greatly honor and respect the Blessed Virgin Mary, as befits her role as the Mother of our Savior, but we do not worship her. She is not God and therefore cannot be worshipped.

---

RC's consistently deny that they've "divinized" Mary - but RC prayers, hymns, practices, and dogmas say otherwise.

But regardless, you don't have to consider Mary as divinity in order to be worshiping her. Roman Catholicism has constructed a completely artificial and arbitrary line between "honor" and "worship" in order to tell themselves they're not worshiping Mary or the saints. RC's have taken the "honor"/"veneration" of Mary way too far into the realm of actual worship, and they're trying to justify it as being okay based purely on ad hoc semantics. Unfortunately, I don't think God is going to subscribe to your artificial distinctions.

"Catholics have never worshiped Mary as any sort of divinity" - is akin to a married man who is sleeping with another woman saying "I have never slept with another woman.... as any sort of wife". Just because he doesn't consider her a wife doesn't mean that sleeping with her isn't cheating.

---

It's incredible that I can say "There is only one God, and Mary is not Him. Catholics do not worship Mary" over and over, yet you cannot be convinced that I mean what I say. I am not a pagan. I only worship God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in full agreement with unchanging Catholic dogma.

Veneration (honor) is not worship. We honor other humans all the time. Mary was honored first and foremost by God the Father when he selected her to be the mother of His divine Son. Catholics honor her as any subjects of a King would honor the King's mother. We can ask Mother Mary and any other saint to pray for us because they are close to God in Heaven. This spiritual power of intercession was explicitly granted to them (and us!) by God in accordance with Scripture. It does not make them divine any more than it makes you and I gods, which is to say "not at all."

I'll admit that I am uncomfortable with some of the poetic language used in Marian devotions, even though they are typically used with the best of intentions. That discomfort and confusion is not uncommon, which is why this clarification was issued by the Vatican in the first place. All of Mary's role in God's plan for salvation is subordinate to and entirely dependent upon her relationship to Jesus as His Mother. That is, and always has been, the official Catholic position. You don't have to believe it, but it is true nonetheless.

Nah, not worship, really guys, not worship...

She is the mother of God, the queen of heaven, spouse of the holy spirit, heavens gate, born and lived without sin, must be a perpetual virgin to continue the myth of being sinless, etc.

For the record, I truly respect and honor Mary, but she would figuratively be rolling in her grave based on how high she has been elevated, to the point of idolatry by the catholic church.

Just some of the titles used by catholics for Mary follow.

Gate of Heaven

Ark of the Covenant

Cause of Our Joy

Comforter of the Afflicted

Co-Redemptrix

Destroyer of Heresy

Gate of Heaven

Joy of the Just

Health of the Sick

Help of Christians

Holy Mary

Holy Mother of God

Holy Virgin of Virgins

House of Gold

The Immaculate Heart

Mirror of Justice

Mother of the Poor

Morning Star

Mother Inviolate

Mother Most Admirable

Mother Most Amiable

Mother Most Chaste

Mother Most Pure

Mother of Christ

Mother of Divine Grace

Mother of Good Counsel

Mother of Orphans

Mother of Our Creator

Mother of Our Redeemer

Mother of Perpetual Help

Mother of Sorrows

Mother of the Son

Mother Thrice Admirable

Mother Undefiled

Mystical Rose

Our Lady de Gray

Our Lady de la Breche

Our Lady della Croce

Our Lady de la Treille

Our Lady of Confidence

Our Lady of Akita

Our Lady of Abundance

Our Lady of Acheropita

Our Lady of Africa

Our Lady of Aix-la-Chapelle

Our Lady of Alba Royale

Our Lady of Alexandria

Our Lady of All Help

Our Lady of Almudena

Our Lady of Amiens

Our Lady of Angels

Our Lady of Angels Toulouse

Our Lady of Apareceda

Our Lady of Apparitions

Our Lady of Arabida

Our Lady of Ardents

Our Lady of Ardilliers

Our Lady of Argenteuil

Our Lady of Arras

Our Lady of Atocha

Our Lady of Banneux

Our Lady of Bavaria

Our Lady of Beaumont

Our Lady of Beauraing

Our Lady of Belle Fontaine

Our Lady of Benoite-Vaux

Our Lady of Bessiere

Our Lady of Betharam

Our Lady of Bethlehem

Our Lady of Bolougne

Our Lady of Bonaria

Our Lady of Bonport

Our Lady of Bourbourg

Our Lady of Bows

Our Lady of Bruges

Our Lady of Buglose

Our Lady of Buch

Our Lady of Calais

Our Lady of Calevourt

Our Lady of Cambray

Our Lady of Cambron

Our Lady of Campitelli

Our Lady of Cana

Our Lady of Caravaggio

Our Lady of Carquere

Our Lady of Castelbruedo

Our Lady of Charity

Our Lady of Chartres

Our Lady of Chatillion

Our Lady of Chievres

Our Lady Of Citeaux

Our Lady of Clairvaux

Our Lady of Clemency

Our Lady of Clermont

Our Lady of Clery

Our Lady of Clos-Evrard

Our Lady of Compassion

Our Lady of Conquest

Our Lady of Consolation

Our Lady of Constantinople

Our Lady of Copacabana

Our Lady of Coutances

Our Lady of Covadonga

Our Lady of Craganor

Our Lady of Czestochowa

Our Lady D'Iron

Our Lady of Damietta

Our Lady of Deliverance

Our Lady of Didinia

Our Lady of Dijon

Our Lady of Divine Providence

Our Lady of Dordrecht

Our Lady of Edessa

Our Lady of Egypt

Our Lady of Einsiendeln

Our Lady of Emminont

Our Lady of Esquernes

Our Lady of Exile

Our Lady of Faith

Our Lady of Fatima

Our Lady of Fire

Our Lady of Flines

Our Lady of Foi

Our Lady of Fourviere

Our Lady of Foy

Our Lady of France

Our Lady of Genazzano

Our Lady of Genesta

Our Lady of Gifts

Our Lady of Good Counsel

Our Lady of Good Deliverance

Our Lady of Good Haven

Our Lady of Good Health

Our Lady of Good Help

Our Lady of Good News

Our Lady of Good Remedies

Our Lady of Good Success

Our Lady of Good Tidings

Our Lady of Good Tidings, Lempdes

Our Lady of Grace

Our Lady of Grace, Normandy

Our Lady of Grace, Paris

Our Lady of Great Power

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guam

Our Lady of Guard

Our Lady of Guidance

Our Lady of Happy Assembly

Our Lady of Haut

Our Lady of Helbron

Our Lady of Highest Grace

Our Lady of Hildesheim

Our Lady of Ireland

Our Lady of Justinienne

Our Lady of Kazan

Our Lady of Kieff

Our Lady of Kiev

Our Lady of Knock

Our Lady of Kuehn

Our Lady of La Carolle

Our Lady of La Chapelle

Our Lady of La Guarde

Our Lady of La Rochette

Our Lady of La Salette

Our Lady of Lac Bouchet

Our Lady of Las Lajas

Our Lady of Last Agony

Our Lady of Laon

Our Lady of Lavang

Our Lady of Liesse

Our Lady of Life

Our Lady of Light

Our Lady of Ligny

Our Lady of Loreto

Our Lady of Lourdes

Our Lady of Louvain

Our Lady of Lyons

Our Lady of Mantua

Our Lady of Marienthal

Our Lady of Marseilles

Our Lady of Matarieh

Our Lady of Meliapore

Our Lady of Milan

Our Lady of Miracles

Our Lady of Miracles Brescia

Our Lady of Miracles Paris

Our Lady of Miracles Rome

Our Lady of Molanus

Our Lady of Molene

Our Lady of Mondevi

Our Lady of Moreneta

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

Our Lady of Monte-Senario

Our Lady of Montserrat

Our Lady of Montevergine

Our Lady of Moustier

Our Lady of Moyen Point

Our Lady of Myan

Our Lady of Nanteuil

Our Lady of Naples

Our Lady of Narni

Our Lady of Naval

Our Lady of Nazareth

Our Lady of New

Our Lady of Oegnies

Our Lady of Oropa

Our Lady of Oviedo

Our Lady of Paris

Our Lady of Peace

Our Lady of Pellevoisin

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

Our Lady of Pignerol

Our Lady of Pompeii

Our Lady of Pontmain

Our Lady of Pontoise

Our Lady of Port Louis

Our Lady of Power

Our Lady of Premontre

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

Our Lady of Abundance or Prosperity

Our Lady of Pucha

Our Lady of Puig

Our Lady of Puy

Our Lady of Quito

Our Lady of Ransom

Our Lady of Ratisbon

Our Lady of Rennes

Our Lady of Rheims

Our Lady of Rocamadour

Our Lady of Rocks

Our Lady of Rossano

Our Lady of Rouen

Our Lady of Safety

Our Lady of Saideneida

Our Lady of Saint Acheul

Our Lady of St Fort Chartres

Our Lady of Saint John

Our Lady of Savigny

Our Lady of Sasopoli

Our Lady of Saussaie

Our Lady of Schiedam

Our Lady of Schier

Our Lady of Scutari

Our Lady of Seez

Our Lady of Sichem

Our Lady of Sion

Our Lady of Smelcem

Our Lady of Sorrows

Our Lady of Soissons

Our Lady of Speech

Our Lady of Spire

Our Lady of Succor

Our Lady of Tables

Our Lady of Talan

Our Lady of Tears

Our Lady of Tears, Spoleto

Our Lady of Terouenne

Our Lady of the Armed Forces

Our Lady of the Assumption

Our Lady of the Bells

Our Lady of the Bush

Our Lady of the Candles

Our Lady of the Cloister

Our Lady of the Conception

Our Lady of the Conception, Flanders

Our Lady of the Divine Shepherd

Our Lady of the Don

Our Lady of the Doves

Our Lady of the Empress

Our Lady of the Fields

Our Lady of the Flowering Thorn

Our Lady of the Forest

Our Lady of the Forests

Our Lady of the Founders

Our Lady of the Fountain

Our Lady of the Fountain, Constantinople

Our Lady of the Grotto Lamego

Our Lady of the Hermits

Our Lady of the Hill

Our Lady of the Holy Chapel

Our Lady of the Holy Cross

Our Lady of the Jesuit College

Our Lady of the Lily

Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

Our Lady of the Mountains

Our Lady of the Palm

Our Lady of the Pillar

Our Lady of the Place

Our Lady of the Pond

Our Lady of the Portuguese

Our Lady of the Rock

Our Lady of the Rosary

Our Lady of the Sacred Heart

Our Lady of the Silver Foot

Our Lady of the Slain

Our Lady of the Snows

Our Lady of the Star

Our Lady of the Star, Portugal

Our Lady of the Taper

Our Lady of the Thorn

Our Lady of the Tower

Our Lady of the Underground

Our Lady of the Valley

Our Lady of the Vault

Our Lady of the Vine

Our Lady of the Way

Our Lady of the Woods

Our Lady of Tongres

Our Lady of Tortosa

Our Lady of Trapani

Our Lady of Treves

Our Lady of Trut

Our Lady of Valvenere

Our Lady of Vaussivieres

Our Lady of Verdun

Our Lady of Victories

Our Lady of Victory

Our Lady of Victory, Spain

Our Lady of Victory, Senlis

Our Lady of Victory, Tourney

Our Lady of Victory, Valois

Our Lady of Virtues

Our Lady of Vivonne

Our Lady of Vladimir

Our Lady of Walsingham

Our Lady of Zapopan

Our Lady of Zell

Our Lady the Helper

Our Lady Refuge of Sinners

Our Lady, Star of the Sea

Our Lady Queen of Peace

Tabernacle of the Lord

Temple of the Most Holy Trinity

Treasure House of God's Graces

Queen of Angels

Queen of Heaven

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Virgins

Queen of All Saints

Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

Queen of the Most Holy Rosary

Queen of Peace

Refuge of Sinners

Seat of Wisdom

Singular Vessel of Devotion

Spiritual Vessel

Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Star of the Sea

Tower of David

Tower of Ivory

Vessel of Honor

Virgen de la Antigua

Virgin of the Battles

Virgin of the Kings

Virgin Most Prudent

Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin Most Renowned

Virgin Most Powerful

Virgin Most Merciful

Virgin Most Faithful

OsoCoreyell said:

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I want to know by what authority Catholics think it is sound theology to pray to Mary.

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The Bible

Plus if anyone takes the time to study Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe and on and on and is still blind, welp…

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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ARbear13 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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ARbear13 said:

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Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

That would be amazing because I am certain that if I polled Protestants why they would go to heaven, a fair percentage would wrongly answer, they are a good person.

---

Yep. So many led astray with martin luther nonsense gobbledygook. We can only help by presenting them with facts and their made up beliefs that appeared 500 years ago and sooner.

Fre3dombear said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

ARbear13 said:

---

Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

---

Many Catholics would argue with this stand.
But then, many Protestants falsely believe they will go to heaven because they are good people.

The lack of understanding people have in "their own faith" is amazing at times.

---

If you made a poll asking Catholics "Do you worship Mary as a goddess?" every single one of them that had ever darkened the door of a church and still claimed Catholicism would say "No, of course not."

Catholics are Christians. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior. There is no other name by which men can be saved.

---

That would be amazing because I am certain that if I polled Protestants why they would go to heaven, a fair percentage would wrongly answer, they are a good person.

---

Yep. So many led astray with martin luther nonsense gobbledygook. We can only help by presenting them with facts and their made up beliefs that appeared 500 years ago and sooner.

---

Its like you truly don't know history. Luther was hardly the first to speak truth to the RC church. And the early church looked nothing like Catholicism.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Nah, not worship, really guys, not worship...

She is the mother of God, the queen of heaven, spouse of the holy spirit, heavens gate, born and lived without sin, must be a perpetual virgin to continue the myth of being sinless, etc.

For the record, I truly respect and honor Mary, but she would figuratively be rolling in her grave based on how high she has been elevated, to the point of idolatry by the catholic church.

Just some of the titles used by catholics for Mary follow.

Gate of Heaven

Ark of the Covenant

Cause of Our Joy

Comforter of the Afflicted

Co-Redemptrix

Destroyer of Heresy

Gate of Heaven

Joy of the Just

Health of the Sick

Help of Christians

Holy Mary

Holy Mother of God

Holy Virgin of Virgins

House of Gold

The Immaculate Heart

Mirror of Justice

Mother of the Poor

Morning Star

Mother Inviolate

Mother Most Admirable

Mother Most Amiable

Mother Most Chaste

Mother Most Pure

Mother of Christ

Mother of Divine Grace

Mother of Good Counsel

Mother of Orphans

Mother of Our Creator

Mother of Our Redeemer

Mother of Perpetual Help

Mother of Sorrows

Mother of the Son

Mother Thrice Admirable

Mother Undefiled

Mystical Rose

Our Lady de Gray

Our Lady de la Breche

Our Lady della Croce

Our Lady de la Treille

Our Lady of Confidence

Our Lady of Akita

Our Lady of Abundance

Our Lady of Acheropita

Our Lady of Africa

Our Lady of Aix-la-Chapelle

Our Lady of Alba Royale

Our Lady of Alexandria

Our Lady of All Help

Our Lady of Almudena

Our Lady of Amiens

Our Lady of Angels

Our Lady of Angels Toulouse

Our Lady of Apareceda

Our Lady of Apparitions

Our Lady of Arabida

Our Lady of Ardents

Our Lady of Ardilliers

Our Lady of Argenteuil

Our Lady of Arras

Our Lady of Atocha

Our Lady of Banneux

Our Lady of Bavaria

Our Lady of Beaumont

Our Lady of Beauraing

Our Lady of Belle Fontaine

Our Lady of Benoite-Vaux

Our Lady of Bessiere

Our Lady of Betharam

Our Lady of Bethlehem

Our Lady of Bolougne

Our Lady of Bonaria

Our Lady of Bonport

Our Lady of Bourbourg

Our Lady of Bows

Our Lady of Bruges

Our Lady of Buglose

Our Lady of Buch

Our Lady of Calais

Our Lady of Calevourt

Our Lady of Cambray

Our Lady of Cambron

Our Lady of Campitelli

Our Lady of Cana

Our Lady of Caravaggio

Our Lady of Carquere

Our Lady of Castelbruedo

Our Lady of Charity

Our Lady of Chartres

Our Lady of Chatillion

Our Lady of Chievres

Our Lady Of Citeaux

Our Lady of Clairvaux

Our Lady of Clemency

Our Lady of Clermont

Our Lady of Clery

Our Lady of Clos-Evrard

Our Lady of Compassion

Our Lady of Conquest

Our Lady of Consolation

Our Lady of Constantinople

Our Lady of Copacabana

Our Lady of Coutances

Our Lady of Covadonga

Our Lady of Craganor

Our Lady of Czestochowa

Our Lady D'Iron

Our Lady of Damietta

Our Lady of Deliverance

Our Lady of Didinia

Our Lady of Dijon

Our Lady of Divine Providence

Our Lady of Dordrecht

Our Lady of Edessa

Our Lady of Egypt

Our Lady of Einsiendeln

Our Lady of Emminont

Our Lady of Esquernes

Our Lady of Exile

Our Lady of Faith

Our Lady of Fatima

Our Lady of Fire

Our Lady of Flines

Our Lady of Foi

Our Lady of Fourviere

Our Lady of Foy

Our Lady of France

Our Lady of Genazzano

Our Lady of Genesta

Our Lady of Gifts

Our Lady of Good Counsel

Our Lady of Good Deliverance

Our Lady of Good Haven

Our Lady of Good Health

Our Lady of Good Help

Our Lady of Good News

Our Lady of Good Remedies

Our Lady of Good Success

Our Lady of Good Tidings

Our Lady of Good Tidings, Lempdes

Our Lady of Grace

Our Lady of Grace, Normandy

Our Lady of Grace, Paris

Our Lady of Great Power

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guam

Our Lady of Guard

Our Lady of Guidance

Our Lady of Happy Assembly

Our Lady of Haut

Our Lady of Helbron

Our Lady of Highest Grace

Our Lady of Hildesheim

Our Lady of Ireland

Our Lady of Justinienne

Our Lady of Kazan

Our Lady of Kieff

Our Lady of Kiev

Our Lady of Knock

Our Lady of Kuehn

Our Lady of La Carolle

Our Lady of La Chapelle

Our Lady of La Guarde

Our Lady of La Rochette

Our Lady of La Salette

Our Lady of Lac Bouchet

Our Lady of Las Lajas

Our Lady of Last Agony

Our Lady of Laon

Our Lady of Lavang

Our Lady of Liesse

Our Lady of Life

Our Lady of Light

Our Lady of Ligny

Our Lady of Loreto

Our Lady of Lourdes

Our Lady of Louvain

Our Lady of Lyons

Our Lady of Mantua

Our Lady of Marienthal

Our Lady of Marseilles

Our Lady of Matarieh

Our Lady of Meliapore

Our Lady of Milan

Our Lady of Miracles

Our Lady of Miracles Brescia

Our Lady of Miracles Paris

Our Lady of Miracles Rome

Our Lady of Molanus

Our Lady of Molene

Our Lady of Mondevi

Our Lady of Moreneta

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

Our Lady of Monte-Senario

Our Lady of Montserrat

Our Lady of Montevergine

Our Lady of Moustier

Our Lady of Moyen Point

Our Lady of Myan

Our Lady of Nanteuil

Our Lady of Naples

Our Lady of Narni

Our Lady of Naval

Our Lady of Nazareth

Our Lady of New

Our Lady of Oegnies

Our Lady of Oropa

Our Lady of Oviedo

Our Lady of Paris

Our Lady of Peace

Our Lady of Pellevoisin

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

Our Lady of Pignerol

Our Lady of Pompeii

Our Lady of Pontmain

Our Lady of Pontoise

Our Lady of Port Louis

Our Lady of Power

Our Lady of Premontre

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

Our Lady of Abundance or Prosperity

Our Lady of Pucha

Our Lady of Puig

Our Lady of Puy

Our Lady of Quito

Our Lady of Ransom

Our Lady of Ratisbon

Our Lady of Rennes

Our Lady of Rheims

Our Lady of Rocamadour

Our Lady of Rocks

Our Lady of Rossano

Our Lady of Rouen

Our Lady of Safety

Our Lady of Saideneida

Our Lady of Saint Acheul

Our Lady of St Fort Chartres

Our Lady of Saint John

Our Lady of Savigny

Our Lady of Sasopoli

Our Lady of Saussaie

Our Lady of Schiedam

Our Lady of Schier

Our Lady of Scutari

Our Lady of Seez

Our Lady of Sichem

Our Lady of Sion

Our Lady of Smelcem

Our Lady of Sorrows

Our Lady of Soissons

Our Lady of Speech

Our Lady of Spire

Our Lady of Succor

Our Lady of Tables

Our Lady of Talan

Our Lady of Tears

Our Lady of Tears, Spoleto

Our Lady of Terouenne

Our Lady of the Armed Forces

Our Lady of the Assumption

Our Lady of the Bells

Our Lady of the Bush

Our Lady of the Candles

Our Lady of the Cloister

Our Lady of the Conception

Our Lady of the Conception, Flanders

Our Lady of the Divine Shepherd

Our Lady of the Don

Our Lady of the Doves

Our Lady of the Empress

Our Lady of the Fields

Our Lady of the Flowering Thorn

Our Lady of the Forest

Our Lady of the Forests

Our Lady of the Founders

Our Lady of the Fountain

Our Lady of the Fountain, Constantinople

Our Lady of the Grotto Lamego

Our Lady of the Hermits

Our Lady of the Hill

Our Lady of the Holy Chapel

Our Lady of the Holy Cross

Our Lady of the Jesuit College

Our Lady of the Lily

Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

Our Lady of the Mountains

Our Lady of the Palm

Our Lady of the Pillar

Our Lady of the Place

Our Lady of the Pond

Our Lady of the Portuguese

Our Lady of the Rock

Our Lady of the Rosary

Our Lady of the Sacred Heart

Our Lady of the Silver Foot

Our Lady of the Slain

Our Lady of the Snows

Our Lady of the Star

Our Lady of the Star, Portugal

Our Lady of the Taper

Our Lady of the Thorn

Our Lady of the Tower

Our Lady of the Underground

Our Lady of the Valley

Our Lady of the Vault

Our Lady of the Vine

Our Lady of the Way

Our Lady of the Woods

Our Lady of Tongres

Our Lady of Tortosa

Our Lady of Trapani

Our Lady of Treves

Our Lady of Trut

Our Lady of Valvenere

Our Lady of Vaussivieres

Our Lady of Verdun

Our Lady of Victories

Our Lady of Victory

Our Lady of Victory, Spain

Our Lady of Victory, Senlis

Our Lady of Victory, Tourney

Our Lady of Victory, Valois

Our Lady of Virtues

Our Lady of Vivonne

Our Lady of Vladimir

Our Lady of Walsingham

Our Lady of Zapopan

Our Lady of Zell

Our Lady the Helper

Our Lady Refuge of Sinners

Our Lady, Star of the Sea

Our Lady Queen of Peace

Tabernacle of the Lord

Temple of the Most Holy Trinity

Treasure House of God's Graces

Queen of Angels

Queen of Heaven

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Virgins

Queen of All Saints

Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

Queen of the Most Holy Rosary

Queen of Peace

Refuge of Sinners

Seat of Wisdom

Singular Vessel of Devotion

Spiritual Vessel

Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Star of the Sea

Tower of David

Tower of Ivory

Vessel of Honor

Virgen de la Antigua

Virgin of the Battles

Virgin of the Kings

Virgin Most Prudent

Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin Most Renowned

Virgin Most Powerful

Virgin Most Merciful

Virgin Most Faithful

---

All worthy fkr the literal sinless ever virgin Mother of God

Man the hubris of some people led astray with even the guy that invented the P's religion said same.

Imagine thinking less of Mary than Gabriel did. Yikes.

Lots of whistlers past the graveyard round here.

I posted the video yesterday or so. Summed it up well.

Fre3dombear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Nah, not worship, really guys, not worship...

She is the mother of God, the queen of heaven, spouse of the holy spirit, heavens gate, born and lived without sin, must be a perpetual virgin to continue the myth of being sinless, etc.

For the record, I truly respect and honor Mary, but she would figuratively be rolling in her grave based on how high she has been elevated, to the point of idolatry by the catholic church.

Just some of the titles used by catholics for Mary follow.

Gate of Heaven

Ark of the Covenant

Cause of Our Joy

Comforter of the Afflicted

Co-Redemptrix

Destroyer of Heresy

Gate of Heaven

Joy of the Just

Health of the Sick

Help of Christians

Holy Mary

Holy Mother of God

Holy Virgin of Virgins

House of Gold

The Immaculate Heart

Mirror of Justice

Mother of the Poor

Morning Star

Mother Inviolate

Mother Most Admirable

Mother Most Amiable

Mother Most Chaste

Mother Most Pure

Mother of Christ

Mother of Divine Grace

Mother of Good Counsel

Mother of Orphans

Mother of Our Creator

Mother of Our Redeemer

Mother of Perpetual Help

Mother of Sorrows

Mother of the Son

Mother Thrice Admirable

Mother Undefiled

Mystical Rose

Our Lady de Gray

Our Lady de la Breche

Our Lady della Croce

Our Lady de la Treille

Our Lady of Confidence

Our Lady of Akita

Our Lady of Abundance

Our Lady of Acheropita

Our Lady of Africa

Our Lady of Aix-la-Chapelle

Our Lady of Alba Royale

Our Lady of Alexandria

Our Lady of All Help

Our Lady of Almudena

Our Lady of Amiens

Our Lady of Angels

Our Lady of Angels Toulouse

Our Lady of Apareceda

Our Lady of Apparitions

Our Lady of Arabida

Our Lady of Ardents

Our Lady of Ardilliers

Our Lady of Argenteuil

Our Lady of Arras

Our Lady of Atocha

Our Lady of Banneux

Our Lady of Bavaria

Our Lady of Beaumont

Our Lady of Beauraing

Our Lady of Belle Fontaine

Our Lady of Benoite-Vaux

Our Lady of Bessiere

Our Lady of Betharam

Our Lady of Bethlehem

Our Lady of Bolougne

Our Lady of Bonaria

Our Lady of Bonport

Our Lady of Bourbourg

Our Lady of Bows

Our Lady of Bruges

Our Lady of Buglose

Our Lady of Buch

Our Lady of Calais

Our Lady of Calevourt

Our Lady of Cambray

Our Lady of Cambron

Our Lady of Campitelli

Our Lady of Cana

Our Lady of Caravaggio

Our Lady of Carquere

Our Lady of Castelbruedo

Our Lady of Charity

Our Lady of Chartres

Our Lady of Chatillion

Our Lady of Chievres

Our Lady Of Citeaux

Our Lady of Clairvaux

Our Lady of Clemency

Our Lady of Clermont

Our Lady of Clery

Our Lady of Clos-Evrard

Our Lady of Compassion

Our Lady of Conquest

Our Lady of Consolation

Our Lady of Constantinople

Our Lady of Copacabana

Our Lady of Coutances

Our Lady of Covadonga

Our Lady of Craganor

Our Lady of Czestochowa

Our Lady D'Iron

Our Lady of Damietta

Our Lady of Deliverance

Our Lady of Didinia

Our Lady of Dijon

Our Lady of Divine Providence

Our Lady of Dordrecht

Our Lady of Edessa

Our Lady of Egypt

Our Lady of Einsiendeln

Our Lady of Emminont

Our Lady of Esquernes

Our Lady of Exile

Our Lady of Faith

Our Lady of Fatima

Our Lady of Fire

Our Lady of Flines

Our Lady of Foi

Our Lady of Fourviere

Our Lady of Foy

Our Lady of France

Our Lady of Genazzano

Our Lady of Genesta

Our Lady of Gifts

Our Lady of Good Counsel

Our Lady of Good Deliverance

Our Lady of Good Haven

Our Lady of Good Health

Our Lady of Good Help

Our Lady of Good News

Our Lady of Good Remedies

Our Lady of Good Success

Our Lady of Good Tidings

Our Lady of Good Tidings, Lempdes

Our Lady of Grace

Our Lady of Grace, Normandy

Our Lady of Grace, Paris

Our Lady of Great Power

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guam

Our Lady of Guard

Our Lady of Guidance

Our Lady of Happy Assembly

Our Lady of Haut

Our Lady of Helbron

Our Lady of Highest Grace

Our Lady of Hildesheim

Our Lady of Ireland

Our Lady of Justinienne

Our Lady of Kazan

Our Lady of Kieff

Our Lady of Kiev

Our Lady of Knock

Our Lady of Kuehn

Our Lady of La Carolle

Our Lady of La Chapelle

Our Lady of La Guarde

Our Lady of La Rochette

Our Lady of La Salette

Our Lady of Lac Bouchet

Our Lady of Las Lajas

Our Lady of Last Agony

Our Lady of Laon

Our Lady of Lavang

Our Lady of Liesse

Our Lady of Life

Our Lady of Light

Our Lady of Ligny

Our Lady of Loreto

Our Lady of Lourdes

Our Lady of Louvain

Our Lady of Lyons

Our Lady of Mantua

Our Lady of Marienthal

Our Lady of Marseilles

Our Lady of Matarieh

Our Lady of Meliapore

Our Lady of Milan

Our Lady of Miracles

Our Lady of Miracles Brescia

Our Lady of Miracles Paris

Our Lady of Miracles Rome

Our Lady of Molanus

Our Lady of Molene

Our Lady of Mondevi

Our Lady of Moreneta

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

Our Lady of Monte-Senario

Our Lady of Montserrat

Our Lady of Montevergine

Our Lady of Moustier

Our Lady of Moyen Point

Our Lady of Myan

Our Lady of Nanteuil

Our Lady of Naples

Our Lady of Narni

Our Lady of Naval

Our Lady of Nazareth

Our Lady of New

Our Lady of Oegnies

Our Lady of Oropa

Our Lady of Oviedo

Our Lady of Paris

Our Lady of Peace

Our Lady of Pellevoisin

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

Our Lady of Pignerol

Our Lady of Pompeii

Our Lady of Pontmain

Our Lady of Pontoise

Our Lady of Port Louis

Our Lady of Power

Our Lady of Premontre

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

Our Lady of Abundance or Prosperity

Our Lady of Pucha

Our Lady of Puig

Our Lady of Puy

Our Lady of Quito

Our Lady of Ransom

Our Lady of Ratisbon

Our Lady of Rennes

Our Lady of Rheims

Our Lady of Rocamadour

Our Lady of Rocks

Our Lady of Rossano

Our Lady of Rouen

Our Lady of Safety

Our Lady of Saideneida

Our Lady of Saint Acheul

Our Lady of St Fort Chartres

Our Lady of Saint John

Our Lady of Savigny

Our Lady of Sasopoli

Our Lady of Saussaie

Our Lady of Schiedam

Our Lady of Schier

Our Lady of Scutari

Our Lady of Seez

Our Lady of Sichem

Our Lady of Sion

Our Lady of Smelcem

Our Lady of Sorrows

Our Lady of Soissons

Our Lady of Speech

Our Lady of Spire

Our Lady of Succor

Our Lady of Tables

Our Lady of Talan

Our Lady of Tears

Our Lady of Tears, Spoleto

Our Lady of Terouenne

Our Lady of the Armed Forces

Our Lady of the Assumption

Our Lady of the Bells

Our Lady of the Bush

Our Lady of the Candles

Our Lady of the Cloister

Our Lady of the Conception

Our Lady of the Conception, Flanders

Our Lady of the Divine Shepherd

Our Lady of the Don

Our Lady of the Doves

Our Lady of the Empress

Our Lady of the Fields

Our Lady of the Flowering Thorn

Our Lady of the Forest

Our Lady of the Forests

Our Lady of the Founders

Our Lady of the Fountain

Our Lady of the Fountain, Constantinople

Our Lady of the Grotto Lamego

Our Lady of the Hermits

Our Lady of the Hill

Our Lady of the Holy Chapel

Our Lady of the Holy Cross

Our Lady of the Jesuit College

Our Lady of the Lily

Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

Our Lady of the Mountains

Our Lady of the Palm

Our Lady of the Pillar

Our Lady of the Place

Our Lady of the Pond

Our Lady of the Portuguese

Our Lady of the Rock

Our Lady of the Rosary

Our Lady of the Sacred Heart

Our Lady of the Silver Foot

Our Lady of the Slain

Our Lady of the Snows

Our Lady of the Star

Our Lady of the Star, Portugal

Our Lady of the Taper

Our Lady of the Thorn

Our Lady of the Tower

Our Lady of the Underground

Our Lady of the Valley

Our Lady of the Vault

Our Lady of the Vine

Our Lady of the Way

Our Lady of the Woods

Our Lady of Tongres

Our Lady of Tortosa

Our Lady of Trapani

Our Lady of Treves

Our Lady of Trut

Our Lady of Valvenere

Our Lady of Vaussivieres

Our Lady of Verdun

Our Lady of Victories

Our Lady of Victory

Our Lady of Victory, Spain

Our Lady of Victory, Senlis

Our Lady of Victory, Tourney

Our Lady of Victory, Valois

Our Lady of Virtues

Our Lady of Vivonne

Our Lady of Vladimir

Our Lady of Walsingham

Our Lady of Zapopan

Our Lady of Zell

Our Lady the Helper

Our Lady Refuge of Sinners

Our Lady, Star of the Sea

Our Lady Queen of Peace

Tabernacle of the Lord

Temple of the Most Holy Trinity

Treasure House of God's Graces

Queen of Angels

Queen of Heaven

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Virgins

Queen of All Saints

Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

Queen of the Most Holy Rosary

Queen of Peace

Refuge of Sinners

Seat of Wisdom

Singular Vessel of Devotion

Spiritual Vessel

Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Star of the Sea

Tower of David

Tower of Ivory

Vessel of Honor

Virgen de la Antigua

Virgin of the Battles

Virgin of the Kings

Virgin Most Prudent

Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin Most Renowned

Virgin Most Powerful

Virgin Most Merciful

Virgin Most Faithful

---

All worthy fkr the literal sinless ever virgin Mother of God

Man the hubris of some people led astray with even the guy that invented the P's religion said same.

Imagine thinking less of Mary than Gabriel did. Yikes.

Lots of whistlers past the graveyard round here.

I posted the video yesterday or so. Summed it up well.

---

Prots don't think less of Mary than Gabriel. Gabriel certainly didn't elevate her to the heights that RC's do. It's got all the signs of idolatry, and clearly not found in the Bible and not in the early church.

The Mary Queen of Heaven mythos evolved late and relies heavily upon new revelations. Such as replacing praying the Psalms with praying the Rosary and Hail Mary's.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Nah, not worship, really guys, not worship...

She is the mother of God, the queen of heaven, spouse of the holy spirit, heavens gate, born and lived without sin, must be a perpetual virgin to continue the myth of being sinless, etc.

For the record, I truly respect and honor Mary, but she would figuratively be rolling in her grave based on how high she has been elevated, to the point of idolatry by the catholic church.

Just some of the titles used by catholics for Mary follow.

Gate of Heaven

Ark of the Covenant

Cause of Our Joy

Comforter of the Afflicted

Co-Redemptrix

Destroyer of Heresy

Gate of Heaven

Joy of the Just

Health of the Sick

Help of Christians

Holy Mary

Holy Mother of God

Holy Virgin of Virgins

House of Gold

The Immaculate Heart

Mirror of Justice

Mother of the Poor

Morning Star

Mother Inviolate

Mother Most Admirable

Mother Most Amiable

Mother Most Chaste

Mother Most Pure

Mother of Christ

Mother of Divine Grace

Mother of Good Counsel

Mother of Orphans

Mother of Our Creator

Mother of Our Redeemer

Mother of Perpetual Help

Mother of Sorrows

Mother of the Son

Mother Thrice Admirable

Mother Undefiled

Mystical Rose

Our Lady de Gray

Our Lady de la Breche

Our Lady della Croce

Our Lady de la Treille

Our Lady of Confidence

Our Lady of Akita

Our Lady of Abundance

Our Lady of Acheropita

Our Lady of Africa

Our Lady of Aix-la-Chapelle

Our Lady of Alba Royale

Our Lady of Alexandria

Our Lady of All Help

Our Lady of Almudena

Our Lady of Amiens

Our Lady of Angels

Our Lady of Angels Toulouse

Our Lady of Apareceda

Our Lady of Apparitions

Our Lady of Arabida

Our Lady of Ardents

Our Lady of Ardilliers

Our Lady of Argenteuil

Our Lady of Arras

Our Lady of Atocha

Our Lady of Banneux

Our Lady of Bavaria

Our Lady of Beaumont

Our Lady of Beauraing

Our Lady of Belle Fontaine

Our Lady of Benoite-Vaux

Our Lady of Bessiere

Our Lady of Betharam

Our Lady of Bethlehem

Our Lady of Bolougne

Our Lady of Bonaria

Our Lady of Bonport

Our Lady of Bourbourg

Our Lady of Bows

Our Lady of Bruges

Our Lady of Buglose

Our Lady of Buch

Our Lady of Calais

Our Lady of Calevourt

Our Lady of Cambray

Our Lady of Cambron

Our Lady of Campitelli

Our Lady of Cana

Our Lady of Caravaggio

Our Lady of Carquere

Our Lady of Castelbruedo

Our Lady of Charity

Our Lady of Chartres

Our Lady of Chatillion

Our Lady of Chievres

Our Lady Of Citeaux

Our Lady of Clairvaux

Our Lady of Clemency

Our Lady of Clermont

Our Lady of Clery

Our Lady of Clos-Evrard

Our Lady of Compassion

Our Lady of Conquest

Our Lady of Consolation

Our Lady of Constantinople

Our Lady of Copacabana

Our Lady of Coutances

Our Lady of Covadonga

Our Lady of Craganor

Our Lady of Czestochowa

Our Lady D'Iron

Our Lady of Damietta

Our Lady of Deliverance

Our Lady of Didinia

Our Lady of Dijon

Our Lady of Divine Providence

Our Lady of Dordrecht

Our Lady of Edessa

Our Lady of Egypt

Our Lady of Einsiendeln

Our Lady of Emminont

Our Lady of Esquernes

Our Lady of Exile

Our Lady of Faith

Our Lady of Fatima

Our Lady of Fire

Our Lady of Flines

Our Lady of Foi

Our Lady of Fourviere

Our Lady of Foy

Our Lady of France

Our Lady of Genazzano

Our Lady of Genesta

Our Lady of Gifts

Our Lady of Good Counsel

Our Lady of Good Deliverance

Our Lady of Good Haven

Our Lady of Good Health

Our Lady of Good Help

Our Lady of Good News

Our Lady of Good Remedies

Our Lady of Good Success

Our Lady of Good Tidings

Our Lady of Good Tidings, Lempdes

Our Lady of Grace

Our Lady of Grace, Normandy

Our Lady of Grace, Paris

Our Lady of Great Power

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guam

Our Lady of Guard

Our Lady of Guidance

Our Lady of Happy Assembly

Our Lady of Haut

Our Lady of Helbron

Our Lady of Highest Grace

Our Lady of Hildesheim

Our Lady of Ireland

Our Lady of Justinienne

Our Lady of Kazan

Our Lady of Kieff

Our Lady of Kiev

Our Lady of Knock

Our Lady of Kuehn

Our Lady of La Carolle

Our Lady of La Chapelle

Our Lady of La Guarde

Our Lady of La Rochette

Our Lady of La Salette

Our Lady of Lac Bouchet

Our Lady of Las Lajas

Our Lady of Last Agony

Our Lady of Laon

Our Lady of Lavang

Our Lady of Liesse

Our Lady of Life

Our Lady of Light

Our Lady of Ligny

Our Lady of Loreto

Our Lady of Lourdes

Our Lady of Louvain

Our Lady of Lyons

Our Lady of Mantua

Our Lady of Marienthal

Our Lady of Marseilles

Our Lady of Matarieh

Our Lady of Meliapore

Our Lady of Milan

Our Lady of Miracles

Our Lady of Miracles Brescia

Our Lady of Miracles Paris

Our Lady of Miracles Rome

Our Lady of Molanus

Our Lady of Molene

Our Lady of Mondevi

Our Lady of Moreneta

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

Our Lady of Monte-Senario

Our Lady of Montserrat

Our Lady of Montevergine

Our Lady of Moustier

Our Lady of Moyen Point

Our Lady of Myan

Our Lady of Nanteuil

Our Lady of Naples

Our Lady of Narni

Our Lady of Naval

Our Lady of Nazareth

Our Lady of New

Our Lady of Oegnies

Our Lady of Oropa

Our Lady of Oviedo

Our Lady of Paris

Our Lady of Peace

Our Lady of Pellevoisin

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

Our Lady of Pignerol

Our Lady of Pompeii

Our Lady of Pontmain

Our Lady of Pontoise

Our Lady of Port Louis

Our Lady of Power

Our Lady of Premontre

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

Our Lady of Abundance or Prosperity

Our Lady of Pucha

Our Lady of Puig

Our Lady of Puy

Our Lady of Quito

Our Lady of Ransom

Our Lady of Ratisbon

Our Lady of Rennes

Our Lady of Rheims

Our Lady of Rocamadour

Our Lady of Rocks

Our Lady of Rossano

Our Lady of Rouen

Our Lady of Safety

Our Lady of Saideneida

Our Lady of Saint Acheul

Our Lady of St Fort Chartres

Our Lady of Saint John

Our Lady of Savigny

Our Lady of Sasopoli

Our Lady of Saussaie

Our Lady of Schiedam

Our Lady of Schier

Our Lady of Scutari

Our Lady of Seez

Our Lady of Sichem

Our Lady of Sion

Our Lady of Smelcem

Our Lady of Sorrows

Our Lady of Soissons

Our Lady of Speech

Our Lady of Spire

Our Lady of Succor

Our Lady of Tables

Our Lady of Talan

Our Lady of Tears

Our Lady of Tears, Spoleto

Our Lady of Terouenne

Our Lady of the Armed Forces

Our Lady of the Assumption

Our Lady of the Bells

Our Lady of the Bush

Our Lady of the Candles

Our Lady of the Cloister

Our Lady of the Conception

Our Lady of the Conception, Flanders

Our Lady of the Divine Shepherd

Our Lady of the Don

Our Lady of the Doves

Our Lady of the Empress

Our Lady of the Fields

Our Lady of the Flowering Thorn

Our Lady of the Forest

Our Lady of the Forests

Our Lady of the Founders

Our Lady of the Fountain

Our Lady of the Fountain, Constantinople

Our Lady of the Grotto Lamego

Our Lady of the Hermits

Our Lady of the Hill

Our Lady of the Holy Chapel

Our Lady of the Holy Cross

Our Lady of the Jesuit College

Our Lady of the Lily

Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

Our Lady of the Mountains

Our Lady of the Palm

Our Lady of the Pillar

Our Lady of the Place

Our Lady of the Pond

Our Lady of the Portuguese

Our Lady of the Rock

Our Lady of the Rosary

Our Lady of the Sacred Heart

Our Lady of the Silver Foot

Our Lady of the Slain

Our Lady of the Snows

Our Lady of the Star

Our Lady of the Star, Portugal

Our Lady of the Taper

Our Lady of the Thorn

Our Lady of the Tower

Our Lady of the Underground

Our Lady of the Valley

Our Lady of the Vault

Our Lady of the Vine

Our Lady of the Way

Our Lady of the Woods

Our Lady of Tongres

Our Lady of Tortosa

Our Lady of Trapani

Our Lady of Treves

Our Lady of Trut

Our Lady of Valvenere

Our Lady of Vaussivieres

Our Lady of Verdun

Our Lady of Victories

Our Lady of Victory

Our Lady of Victory, Spain

Our Lady of Victory, Senlis

Our Lady of Victory, Tourney

Our Lady of Victory, Valois

Our Lady of Virtues

Our Lady of Vivonne

Our Lady of Vladimir

Our Lady of Walsingham

Our Lady of Zapopan

Our Lady of Zell

Our Lady the Helper

Our Lady Refuge of Sinners

Our Lady, Star of the Sea

Our Lady Queen of Peace

Tabernacle of the Lord

Temple of the Most Holy Trinity

Treasure House of God's Graces

Queen of Angels

Queen of Heaven

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Virgins

Queen of All Saints

Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

Queen of the Most Holy Rosary

Queen of Peace

Refuge of Sinners

Seat of Wisdom

Singular Vessel of Devotion

Spiritual Vessel

Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Star of the Sea

Tower of David

Tower of Ivory

Vessel of Honor

Virgen de la Antigua

Virgin of the Battles

Virgin of the Kings

Virgin Most Prudent

Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin Most Renowned

Virgin Most Powerful

Virgin Most Merciful

Virgin Most Faithful

---

All worthy fkr the literal sinless ever virgin Mother of God

Man the hubris of some people led astray with even the guy that invented the P's religion said same.

Imagine thinking less of Mary than Gabriel did. Yikes.

Lots of whistlers past the graveyard round here.

I posted the video yesterday or so. Summed it up well.

---

Prots don't think less of Mary than Gabriel. Gabriel certainly didn't elevate her to the heights that RC's do. It's got all the signs of idolatry, and clearly not found in the Bible and not in the early church.

The Mary Queen of Heaven mythos evolved late and relies heavily upon new revelations. Such as replacing praying the Psalms with praying the Rosary and Hail Mary's.

---

You clearly have not read the writings of the Church Fathers. You are also apparently overlooking several scriptures.

That said, what i pray most for the Ps is that they come to know the Eucharist and John 6:53 and not be John 6:61ers. Being in a state of grace every sunday to the best of my ability and every holy day of obligation and experiencing the body blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ in consuming the Eucharistic is such an awesome amazing experience we are called to do Biblically.

I hope they realize someday what they are missing in this sacrifice of the mass every weekend that we Catholics and their forefathers have done for millenia. .

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

Nah, not worship, really guys, not worship...

She is the mother of God, the queen of heaven, spouse of the holy spirit, heavens gate, born and lived without sin, must be a perpetual virgin to continue the myth of being sinless, etc.

For the record, I truly respect and honor Mary, but she would figuratively be rolling in her grave based on how high she has been elevated, to the point of idolatry by the catholic church.

Just some of the titles used by catholics for Mary follow.

Gate of Heaven

Ark of the Covenant

Cause of Our Joy

Comforter of the Afflicted

Co-Redemptrix

Destroyer of Heresy

Gate of Heaven

Joy of the Just

Health of the Sick

Help of Christians

Holy Mary

Holy Mother of God

Holy Virgin of Virgins

House of Gold

The Immaculate Heart

Mirror of Justice

Mother of the Poor

Morning Star

Mother Inviolate

Mother Most Admirable

Mother Most Amiable

Mother Most Chaste

Mother Most Pure

Mother of Christ

Mother of Divine Grace

Mother of Good Counsel

Mother of Orphans

Mother of Our Creator

Mother of Our Redeemer

Mother of Perpetual Help

Mother of Sorrows

Mother of the Son

Mother Thrice Admirable

Mother Undefiled

Mystical Rose

Our Lady de Gray

Our Lady de la Breche

Our Lady della Croce

Our Lady de la Treille

Our Lady of Confidence

Our Lady of Akita

Our Lady of Abundance

Our Lady of Acheropita

Our Lady of Africa

Our Lady of Aix-la-Chapelle

Our Lady of Alba Royale

Our Lady of Alexandria

Our Lady of All Help

Our Lady of Almudena

Our Lady of Amiens

Our Lady of Angels

Our Lady of Angels Toulouse

Our Lady of Apareceda

Our Lady of Apparitions

Our Lady of Arabida

Our Lady of Ardents

Our Lady of Ardilliers

Our Lady of Argenteuil

Our Lady of Arras

Our Lady of Atocha

Our Lady of Banneux

Our Lady of Bavaria

Our Lady of Beaumont

Our Lady of Beauraing

Our Lady of Belle Fontaine

Our Lady of Benoite-Vaux

Our Lady of Bessiere

Our Lady of Betharam

Our Lady of Bethlehem

Our Lady of Bolougne

Our Lady of Bonaria

Our Lady of Bonport

Our Lady of Bourbourg

Our Lady of Bows

Our Lady of Bruges

Our Lady of Buglose

Our Lady of Buch

Our Lady of Calais

Our Lady of Calevourt

Our Lady of Cambray

Our Lady of Cambron

Our Lady of Campitelli

Our Lady of Cana

Our Lady of Caravaggio

Our Lady of Carquere

Our Lady of Castelbruedo

Our Lady of Charity

Our Lady of Chartres

Our Lady of Chatillion

Our Lady of Chievres

Our Lady Of Citeaux

Our Lady of Clairvaux

Our Lady of Clemency

Our Lady of Clermont

Our Lady of Clery

Our Lady of Clos-Evrard

Our Lady of Compassion

Our Lady of Conquest

Our Lady of Consolation

Our Lady of Constantinople

Our Lady of Copacabana

Our Lady of Coutances

Our Lady of Covadonga

Our Lady of Craganor

Our Lady of Czestochowa

Our Lady D'Iron

Our Lady of Damietta

Our Lady of Deliverance

Our Lady of Didinia

Our Lady of Dijon

Our Lady of Divine Providence

Our Lady of Dordrecht

Our Lady of Edessa

Our Lady of Egypt

Our Lady of Einsiendeln

Our Lady of Emminont

Our Lady of Esquernes

Our Lady of Exile

Our Lady of Faith

Our Lady of Fatima

Our Lady of Fire

Our Lady of Flines

Our Lady of Foi

Our Lady of Fourviere

Our Lady of Foy

Our Lady of France

Our Lady of Genazzano

Our Lady of Genesta

Our Lady of Gifts

Our Lady of Good Counsel

Our Lady of Good Deliverance

Our Lady of Good Haven

Our Lady of Good Health

Our Lady of Good Help

Our Lady of Good News

Our Lady of Good Remedies

Our Lady of Good Success

Our Lady of Good Tidings

Our Lady of Good Tidings, Lempdes

Our Lady of Grace

Our Lady of Grace, Normandy

Our Lady of Grace, Paris

Our Lady of Great Power

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guam

Our Lady of Guard

Our Lady of Guidance

Our Lady of Happy Assembly

Our Lady of Haut

Our Lady of Helbron

Our Lady of Highest Grace

Our Lady of Hildesheim

Our Lady of Ireland

Our Lady of Justinienne

Our Lady of Kazan

Our Lady of Kieff

Our Lady of Kiev

Our Lady of Knock

Our Lady of Kuehn

Our Lady of La Carolle

Our Lady of La Chapelle

Our Lady of La Guarde

Our Lady of La Rochette

Our Lady of La Salette

Our Lady of Lac Bouchet

Our Lady of Las Lajas

Our Lady of Last Agony

Our Lady of Laon

Our Lady of Lavang

Our Lady of Liesse

Our Lady of Life

Our Lady of Light

Our Lady of Ligny

Our Lady of Loreto

Our Lady of Lourdes

Our Lady of Louvain

Our Lady of Lyons

Our Lady of Mantua

Our Lady of Marienthal

Our Lady of Marseilles

Our Lady of Matarieh

Our Lady of Meliapore

Our Lady of Milan

Our Lady of Miracles

Our Lady of Miracles Brescia

Our Lady of Miracles Paris

Our Lady of Miracles Rome

Our Lady of Molanus

Our Lady of Molene

Our Lady of Mondevi

Our Lady of Moreneta

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

Our Lady of Monte-Senario

Our Lady of Montserrat

Our Lady of Montevergine

Our Lady of Moustier

Our Lady of Moyen Point

Our Lady of Myan

Our Lady of Nanteuil

Our Lady of Naples

Our Lady of Narni

Our Lady of Naval

Our Lady of Nazareth

Our Lady of New

Our Lady of Oegnies

Our Lady of Oropa

Our Lady of Oviedo

Our Lady of Paris

Our Lady of Peace

Our Lady of Pellevoisin

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

Our Lady of Pignerol

Our Lady of Pompeii

Our Lady of Pontmain

Our Lady of Pontoise

Our Lady of Port Louis

Our Lady of Power

Our Lady of Premontre

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

Our Lady of Abundance or Prosperity

Our Lady of Pucha

Our Lady of Puig

Our Lady of Puy

Our Lady of Quito

Our Lady of Ransom

Our Lady of Ratisbon

Our Lady of Rennes

Our Lady of Rheims

Our Lady of Rocamadour

Our Lady of Rocks

Our Lady of Rossano

Our Lady of Rouen

Our Lady of Safety

Our Lady of Saideneida

Our Lady of Saint Acheul

Our Lady of St Fort Chartres

Our Lady of Saint John

Our Lady of Savigny

Our Lady of Sasopoli

Our Lady of Saussaie

Our Lady of Schiedam

Our Lady of Schier

Our Lady of Scutari

Our Lady of Seez

Our Lady of Sichem

Our Lady of Sion

Our Lady of Smelcem

Our Lady of Sorrows

Our Lady of Soissons

Our Lady of Speech

Our Lady of Spire

Our Lady of Succor

Our Lady of Tables

Our Lady of Talan

Our Lady of Tears

Our Lady of Tears, Spoleto

Our Lady of Terouenne

Our Lady of the Armed Forces

Our Lady of the Assumption

Our Lady of the Bells

Our Lady of the Bush

Our Lady of the Candles

Our Lady of the Cloister

Our Lady of the Conception

Our Lady of the Conception, Flanders

Our Lady of the Divine Shepherd

Our Lady of the Don

Our Lady of the Doves

Our Lady of the Empress

Our Lady of the Fields

Our Lady of the Flowering Thorn

Our Lady of the Forest

Our Lady of the Forests

Our Lady of the Founders

Our Lady of the Fountain

Our Lady of the Fountain, Constantinople

Our Lady of the Grotto Lamego

Our Lady of the Hermits

Our Lady of the Hill

Our Lady of the Holy Chapel

Our Lady of the Holy Cross

Our Lady of the Jesuit College

Our Lady of the Lily

Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

Our Lady of the Mountains

Our Lady of the Palm

Our Lady of the Pillar

Our Lady of the Place

Our Lady of the Pond

Our Lady of the Portuguese

Our Lady of the Rock

Our Lady of the Rosary

Our Lady of the Sacred Heart

Our Lady of the Silver Foot

Our Lady of the Slain

Our Lady of the Snows

Our Lady of the Star

Our Lady of the Star, Portugal

Our Lady of the Taper

Our Lady of the Thorn

Our Lady of the Tower

Our Lady of the Underground

Our Lady of the Valley

Our Lady of the Vault

Our Lady of the Vine

Our Lady of the Way

Our Lady of the Woods

Our Lady of Tongres

Our Lady of Tortosa

Our Lady of Trapani

Our Lady of Treves

Our Lady of Trut

Our Lady of Valvenere

Our Lady of Vaussivieres

Our Lady of Verdun

Our Lady of Victories

Our Lady of Victory

Our Lady of Victory, Spain

Our Lady of Victory, Senlis

Our Lady of Victory, Tourney

Our Lady of Victory, Valois

Our Lady of Virtues

Our Lady of Vivonne

Our Lady of Vladimir

Our Lady of Walsingham

Our Lady of Zapopan

Our Lady of Zell

Our Lady the Helper

Our Lady Refuge of Sinners

Our Lady, Star of the Sea

Our Lady Queen of Peace

Tabernacle of the Lord

Temple of the Most Holy Trinity

Treasure House of God's Graces

Queen of Angels

Queen of Heaven

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Virgins

Queen of All Saints

Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

Queen of the Most Holy Rosary

Queen of Peace

Refuge of Sinners

Seat of Wisdom

Singular Vessel of Devotion

Spiritual Vessel

Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Star of the Sea

Tower of David

Tower of Ivory

Vessel of Honor

Virgen de la Antigua

Virgin of the Battles

Virgin of the Kings

Virgin Most Prudent

Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin Most Renowned

Virgin Most Powerful

Virgin Most Merciful

Virgin Most Faithful

---

All worthy fkr the literal sinless ever virgin Mother of God

Man the hubris of some people led astray with even the guy that invented the P's religion said same.

Imagine thinking less of Mary than Gabriel did. Yikes.

Lots of whistlers past the graveyard round here.

I posted the video yesterday or so. Summed it up well.

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Prots don't think less of Mary than Gabriel. Gabriel certainly didn't elevate her to the heights that RC's do. It's got all the signs of idolatry, and clearly not found in the Bible and not in the early church.

The Mary Queen of Heaven mythos evolved late and relies heavily upon new revelations. Such as replacing praying the Psalms with praying the Rosary and Hail Mary's.

---

If course Gabriel didn't. He went to Mary as the only woman in the history of humanity to
Give birth to God. The greatest woman that ever lived. Surely Gabriel just thought of her as any other woman like say your mom.

Pffffffffffft lol. Sure.

Its truly so absurd how twisted up the Ps get on this. And shows clearly theyve read little to nothing of the early church.

ARbear13 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

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Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

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Sorry to have to be so blunt... but this is like a married man who is sleeping with another woman, but he insists he is not cheating because he stopped calling the other woman his "Co-Wife".

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Catholics have never worshipped Mary as any sort of divinity. You can't stop cheating on your wife if you never started.

There was once a small, heretical group in Arabia, called the Collyridians, that worshipped the Virgin Mary. Their heresy of Mary worship was explicitly condemned by the Catholic Church on the grounds of idolatry, and that condemnation has remained in force ever since.

Honor and worship are categorically different. I honor my parents, but I don't worship them because they are not God. Catholics greatly honor and respect the Blessed Virgin Mary, as befits her role as the Mother of our Savior, but we do not worship her. She is not God and therefore cannot be worshipped.

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RC's consistently deny that they've "divinized" Mary - but RC prayers, hymns, practices, and dogmas say otherwise.

But regardless, you don't have to consider Mary as divinity in order to be worshiping her. Roman Catholicism has constructed a completely artificial and arbitrary line between "honor" and "worship" in order to tell themselves they're not worshiping Mary or the saints. RC's have taken the "honor"/"veneration" of Mary way too far into the realm of actual worship, and they're trying to justify it as being okay based purely on ad hoc semantics. Unfortunately, I don't think God is going to subscribe to your artificial distinctions.

"Catholics have never worshiped Mary as any sort of divinity" - is akin to a married man who is sleeping with another woman saying "I have never slept with another woman.... as any sort of wife". Just because he doesn't consider her a wife doesn't mean that sleeping with her isn't cheating.

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It's incredible that I can say "There is only one God, and Mary is not Him. Catholics do not worship Mary" over and over, yet you cannot be convinced that I mean what I say. I am not a pagan. I only worship God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in full agreement with unchanging Catholic dogma.

Veneration (honor) is not worship. We honor other humans all the time. Mary was honored first and foremost by God the Father when he selected her to be the mother of His divine Son. Catholics honor her as any subjects of a King would honor the King's mother. We can ask Mother Mary and any other saint to pray for us because they are close to God in Heaven. This spiritual power of intercession was explicitly granted to them (and us!) by God in accordance with Scripture. It does not make them divine any more than it makes you and I gods, which is to say "not at all."

I'll admit that I am uncomfortable with some of the poetic language used in Marian devotions, even though they are typically used with the best of intentions. That discomfort and confusion is not uncommon, which is why this clarification was issued by the Vatican in the first place. All of Mary's role in God's plan for salvation is subordinate to and entirely dependent upon her relationship to Jesus as His Mother. That is, and always has been, the official Catholic position. You don't have to believe it, but it is true nonetheless.

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It's incredible that I and others can provide you with pure examples of undeniable Mary worship over and over, yet you still expect us to believe you don't worship her merely on the grounds that you say you don't, and that worship isn't worship merely on the grounds that you say it isn't.

The Roman Catholic Church is going to have to do a LOT more than merely declare Mary is not Co-Mediator, if they want to show that they don't divinize and worship her. It will require you to do much more than just be "uncomfortable with some of the poetic language". You can start by reading that list I provided of quotes from Roman Catholic leaders CLEARLY saying that Mary is NECESSARY for salvation, and completely disavow them as heresy and idolatry.

Are you able to do that? If not, then you're only blowing smoke.

OsoCoreyell said:

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I want to know by what authority Catholics think it is sound theology to pray to Mary.

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I'm not Roman Catholic but this explanation may help.

Intercessory prayer isn't praying to a person. It is a prayer request that others pray to God for us.

The Biblical support for it is found in these verses:

James 5:16 - Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working."

John 11:26 - "And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (It's a modern heresy that Christians die. Historically, the passing of the Christian has been thought of as the falling asleep of their body in the Lord to await a bodily resurrection. This is why Christians bury their dead, and don't cremate them.)

Hebrews 12:1 - "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us." (We are surrounded by this great cloud today, not at some point when we get to heaven).

Revelation 8:3-4 "Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel's hand."

The bolded portion of the text is the actual technical mechanism by which God hears your prayer, by the way.

But who gave this angel with the golden censer your prayer to offer to God? Revelation answers that too.

Revelation 5:8 "Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

As you can see, making prayer requests of other Christians is not limited to those in your Sunday School Class, Church, City, State, Country, or Generation.

Fre3dombear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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Nah, not worship, really guys, not worship...

She is the mother of God, the queen of heaven, spouse of the holy spirit, heavens gate, born and lived without sin, must be a perpetual virgin to continue the myth of being sinless, etc.

For the record, I truly respect and honor Mary, but she would figuratively be rolling in her grave based on how high she has been elevated, to the point of idolatry by the catholic church.

Just some of the titles used by catholics for Mary follow.

Gate of Heaven

Ark of the Covenant

Cause of Our Joy

Comforter of the Afflicted

Co-Redemptrix

Destroyer of Heresy

Gate of Heaven

Joy of the Just

Health of the Sick

Help of Christians

Holy Mary

Holy Mother of God

Holy Virgin of Virgins

House of Gold

The Immaculate Heart

Mirror of Justice

Mother of the Poor

Morning Star

Mother Inviolate

Mother Most Admirable

Mother Most Amiable

Mother Most Chaste

Mother Most Pure

Mother of Christ

Mother of Divine Grace

Mother of Good Counsel

Mother of Orphans

Mother of Our Creator

Mother of Our Redeemer

Mother of Perpetual Help

Mother of Sorrows

Mother of the Son

Mother Thrice Admirable

Mother Undefiled

Mystical Rose

Our Lady de Gray

Our Lady de la Breche

Our Lady della Croce

Our Lady de la Treille

Our Lady of Confidence

Our Lady of Akita

Our Lady of Abundance

Our Lady of Acheropita

Our Lady of Africa

Our Lady of Aix-la-Chapelle

Our Lady of Alba Royale

Our Lady of Alexandria

Our Lady of All Help

Our Lady of Almudena

Our Lady of Amiens

Our Lady of Angels

Our Lady of Angels Toulouse

Our Lady of Apareceda

Our Lady of Apparitions

Our Lady of Arabida

Our Lady of Ardents

Our Lady of Ardilliers

Our Lady of Argenteuil

Our Lady of Arras

Our Lady of Atocha

Our Lady of Banneux

Our Lady of Bavaria

Our Lady of Beaumont

Our Lady of Beauraing

Our Lady of Belle Fontaine

Our Lady of Benoite-Vaux

Our Lady of Bessiere

Our Lady of Betharam

Our Lady of Bethlehem

Our Lady of Bolougne

Our Lady of Bonaria

Our Lady of Bonport

Our Lady of Bourbourg

Our Lady of Bows

Our Lady of Bruges

Our Lady of Buglose

Our Lady of Buch

Our Lady of Calais

Our Lady of Calevourt

Our Lady of Cambray

Our Lady of Cambron

Our Lady of Campitelli

Our Lady of Cana

Our Lady of Caravaggio

Our Lady of Carquere

Our Lady of Castelbruedo

Our Lady of Charity

Our Lady of Chartres

Our Lady of Chatillion

Our Lady of Chievres

Our Lady Of Citeaux

Our Lady of Clairvaux

Our Lady of Clemency

Our Lady of Clermont

Our Lady of Clery

Our Lady of Clos-Evrard

Our Lady of Compassion

Our Lady of Conquest

Our Lady of Consolation

Our Lady of Constantinople

Our Lady of Copacabana

Our Lady of Coutances

Our Lady of Covadonga

Our Lady of Craganor

Our Lady of Czestochowa

Our Lady D'Iron

Our Lady of Damietta

Our Lady of Deliverance

Our Lady of Didinia

Our Lady of Dijon

Our Lady of Divine Providence

Our Lady of Dordrecht

Our Lady of Edessa

Our Lady of Egypt

Our Lady of Einsiendeln

Our Lady of Emminont

Our Lady of Esquernes

Our Lady of Exile

Our Lady of Faith

Our Lady of Fatima

Our Lady of Fire

Our Lady of Flines

Our Lady of Foi

Our Lady of Fourviere

Our Lady of Foy

Our Lady of France

Our Lady of Genazzano

Our Lady of Genesta

Our Lady of Gifts

Our Lady of Good Counsel

Our Lady of Good Deliverance

Our Lady of Good Haven

Our Lady of Good Health

Our Lady of Good Help

Our Lady of Good News

Our Lady of Good Remedies

Our Lady of Good Success

Our Lady of Good Tidings

Our Lady of Good Tidings, Lempdes

Our Lady of Grace

Our Lady of Grace, Normandy

Our Lady of Grace, Paris

Our Lady of Great Power

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guam

Our Lady of Guard

Our Lady of Guidance

Our Lady of Happy Assembly

Our Lady of Haut

Our Lady of Helbron

Our Lady of Highest Grace

Our Lady of Hildesheim

Our Lady of Ireland

Our Lady of Justinienne

Our Lady of Kazan

Our Lady of Kieff

Our Lady of Kiev

Our Lady of Knock

Our Lady of Kuehn

Our Lady of La Carolle

Our Lady of La Chapelle

Our Lady of La Guarde

Our Lady of La Rochette

Our Lady of La Salette

Our Lady of Lac Bouchet

Our Lady of Las Lajas

Our Lady of Last Agony

Our Lady of Laon

Our Lady of Lavang

Our Lady of Liesse

Our Lady of Life

Our Lady of Light

Our Lady of Ligny

Our Lady of Loreto

Our Lady of Lourdes

Our Lady of Louvain

Our Lady of Lyons

Our Lady of Mantua

Our Lady of Marienthal

Our Lady of Marseilles

Our Lady of Matarieh

Our Lady of Meliapore

Our Lady of Milan

Our Lady of Miracles

Our Lady of Miracles Brescia

Our Lady of Miracles Paris

Our Lady of Miracles Rome

Our Lady of Molanus

Our Lady of Molene

Our Lady of Mondevi

Our Lady of Moreneta

Our Lady of Mount Carmel

Our Lady of Monte-Senario

Our Lady of Montserrat

Our Lady of Montevergine

Our Lady of Moustier

Our Lady of Moyen Point

Our Lady of Myan

Our Lady of Nanteuil

Our Lady of Naples

Our Lady of Narni

Our Lady of Naval

Our Lady of Nazareth

Our Lady of New

Our Lady of Oegnies

Our Lady of Oropa

Our Lady of Oviedo

Our Lady of Paris

Our Lady of Peace

Our Lady of Pellevoisin

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

Our Lady of Pignerol

Our Lady of Pompeii

Our Lady of Pontmain

Our Lady of Pontoise

Our Lady of Port Louis

Our Lady of Power

Our Lady of Premontre

Our Lady of Prompt Succor

Our Lady of Abundance or Prosperity

Our Lady of Pucha

Our Lady of Puig

Our Lady of Puy

Our Lady of Quito

Our Lady of Ransom

Our Lady of Ratisbon

Our Lady of Rennes

Our Lady of Rheims

Our Lady of Rocamadour

Our Lady of Rocks

Our Lady of Rossano

Our Lady of Rouen

Our Lady of Safety

Our Lady of Saideneida

Our Lady of Saint Acheul

Our Lady of St Fort Chartres

Our Lady of Saint John

Our Lady of Savigny

Our Lady of Sasopoli

Our Lady of Saussaie

Our Lady of Schiedam

Our Lady of Schier

Our Lady of Scutari

Our Lady of Seez

Our Lady of Sichem

Our Lady of Sion

Our Lady of Smelcem

Our Lady of Sorrows

Our Lady of Soissons

Our Lady of Speech

Our Lady of Spire

Our Lady of Succor

Our Lady of Tables

Our Lady of Talan

Our Lady of Tears

Our Lady of Tears, Spoleto

Our Lady of Terouenne

Our Lady of the Armed Forces

Our Lady of the Assumption

Our Lady of the Bells

Our Lady of the Bush

Our Lady of the Candles

Our Lady of the Cloister

Our Lady of the Conception

Our Lady of the Conception, Flanders

Our Lady of the Divine Shepherd

Our Lady of the Don

Our Lady of the Doves

Our Lady of the Empress

Our Lady of the Fields

Our Lady of the Flowering Thorn

Our Lady of the Forest

Our Lady of the Forests

Our Lady of the Founders

Our Lady of the Fountain

Our Lady of the Fountain, Constantinople

Our Lady of the Grotto Lamego

Our Lady of the Hermits

Our Lady of the Hill

Our Lady of the Holy Chapel

Our Lady of the Holy Cross

Our Lady of the Jesuit College

Our Lady of the Lily

Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal

Our Lady of the Mountains

Our Lady of the Palm

Our Lady of the Pillar

Our Lady of the Place

Our Lady of the Pond

Our Lady of the Portuguese

Our Lady of the Rock

Our Lady of the Rosary

Our Lady of the Sacred Heart

Our Lady of the Silver Foot

Our Lady of the Slain

Our Lady of the Snows

Our Lady of the Star

Our Lady of the Star, Portugal

Our Lady of the Taper

Our Lady of the Thorn

Our Lady of the Tower

Our Lady of the Underground

Our Lady of the Valley

Our Lady of the Vault

Our Lady of the Vine

Our Lady of the Way

Our Lady of the Woods

Our Lady of Tongres

Our Lady of Tortosa

Our Lady of Trapani

Our Lady of Treves

Our Lady of Trut

Our Lady of Valvenere

Our Lady of Vaussivieres

Our Lady of Verdun

Our Lady of Victories

Our Lady of Victory

Our Lady of Victory, Spain

Our Lady of Victory, Senlis

Our Lady of Victory, Tourney

Our Lady of Victory, Valois

Our Lady of Virtues

Our Lady of Vivonne

Our Lady of Vladimir

Our Lady of Walsingham

Our Lady of Zapopan

Our Lady of Zell

Our Lady the Helper

Our Lady Refuge of Sinners

Our Lady, Star of the Sea

Our Lady Queen of Peace

Tabernacle of the Lord

Temple of the Most Holy Trinity

Treasure House of God's Graces

Queen of Angels

Queen of Heaven

Queen of Patriarchs

Queen of Prophets

Queen of Apostles

Queen of Martyrs

Queen of Confessors

Queen of Virgins

Queen of All Saints

Queen Conceived Without Original Sin

Queen of the Most Holy Rosary

Queen of Peace

Refuge of Sinners

Seat of Wisdom

Singular Vessel of Devotion

Spiritual Vessel

Mary, Spouse of the Holy Spirit

Star of the Sea

Tower of David

Tower of Ivory

Vessel of Honor

Virgen de la Antigua

Virgin of the Battles

Virgin of the Kings

Virgin Most Prudent

Virgin Most Venerable

Virgin Most Renowned

Virgin Most Powerful

Virgin Most Merciful

Virgin Most Faithful

---

All worthy fkr the literal sinless ever virgin Mother of God

Man the hubris of some people led astray with even the guy that invented the P's religion said same.

Imagine thinking less of Mary than Gabriel did. Yikes.

Lots of whistlers past the graveyard round here.

I posted the video yesterday or so. Summed it up well.

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Prots don't think less of Mary than Gabriel. Gabriel certainly didn't elevate her to the heights that RC's do. It's got all the signs of idolatry, and clearly not found in the Bible and not in the early church.

The Mary Queen of Heaven mythos evolved late and relies heavily upon new revelations. Such as replacing praying the Psalms with praying the Rosary and Hail Mary's.

---

If course Gabriel didn't. He went to Mary as the only woman in the history of humanity to
Give birth to God. The greatest woman that ever lived. Surely Gabriel just thought of her as any other woman like say your mom.

Pffffffffffft lol. Sure.

Its truly so absurd how twisted up the Ps get on this. And shows clearly theyve read little to nothing of the early church.

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Can you give me another instance where God chose the best, most worthy, candidate for a job?
I can yhink of many that weren't worthy: Jacob, Moses, David, Gideon just to name a few.

Why do you suppose, in this one instance, God chose the worthy person? Was she worthy and, if so, on what do you base your opinion?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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ARbear13 said:

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Today, the Vatican officially rejected the doctrinal titles of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix to refer to the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did this specifically to avoid confusion regarding Mary's role in God's redemptive plan for humanity.

The term was originally proposed centuries ago by well-meaning, theologically-minded Catholics who wanted to emphasize that Mary did participate (in a subordinate way) in God's plan for human salvation by birthing and raising Jesus, the One Redeemer and Mediator. However, Pope Leo XIV and the Catholic hierarchy concluded that these titles are misleading in modern languages and make it seem like Mother Mary has her own, independent participation in our salvation, which is obviously false and heretical. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer. Everyone else, including the Blessed Virgin Mary, only participates in this process as far as we point others toward Jesus as Savior.

Hopefully actions like these will help my Protestant friends on this site realize that we Catholics DO NOT worship Mother Mary or anything other than the Triune God. We never did.

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Sorry to have to be so blunt... but this is like a married man who is sleeping with another woman, but he insists he is not cheating because he stopped calling the other woman his "Co-Wife".

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Catholics have never worshipped Mary as any sort of divinity. You can't stop cheating on your wife if you never started.

There was once a small, heretical group in Arabia, called the Collyridians, that worshipped the Virgin Mary. Their heresy of Mary worship was explicitly condemned by the Catholic Church on the grounds of idolatry, and that condemnation has remained in force ever since.

Honor and worship are categorically different. I honor my parents, but I don't worship them because they are not God. Catholics greatly honor and respect the Blessed Virgin Mary, as befits her role as the Mother of our Savior, but we do not worship her. She is not God and therefore cannot be worshipped.

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RC's consistently deny that they've "divinized" Mary - but RC prayers, hymns, practices, and dogmas say otherwise.

But regardless, you don't have to consider Mary as divinity in order to be worshiping her. Roman Catholicism has constructed a completely artificial and arbitrary line between "honor" and "worship" in order to tell themselves they're not worshiping Mary or the saints. RC's have taken the "honor"/"veneration" of Mary way too far into the realm of actual worship, and they're trying to justify it as being okay based purely on ad hoc semantics. Unfortunately, I don't think God is going to subscribe to your artificial distinctions.

"Catholics have never worshiped Mary as any sort of divinity" - is akin to a married man who is sleeping with another woman saying "I have never slept with another woman.... as any sort of wife". Just because he doesn't consider her a wife doesn't mean that sleeping with her isn't cheating.

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It's incredible that I can say "There is only one God, and Mary is not Him. Catholics do not worship Mary" over and over, yet you cannot be convinced that I mean what I say. I am not a pagan. I only worship God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in full agreement with unchanging Catholic dogma.

Veneration (honor) is not worship. We honor other humans all the time. Mary was honored first and foremost by God the Father when he selected her to be the mother of His divine Son. Catholics honor her as any subjects of a King would honor the King's mother. We can ask Mother Mary and any other saint to pray for us because they are close to God in Heaven. This spiritual power of intercession was explicitly granted to them (and us!) by God in accordance with Scripture. It does not make them divine any more than it makes you and I gods, which is to say "not at all."

I'll admit that I am uncomfortable with some of the poetic language used in Marian devotions, even though they are typically used with the best of intentions. That discomfort and confusion is not uncommon, which is why this clarification was issued by the Vatican in the first place. All of Mary's role in God's plan for salvation is subordinate to and entirely dependent upon her relationship to Jesus as His Mother. That is, and always has been, the official Catholic position. You don't have to believe it, but it is true nonetheless.

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It's incredible that I and others can provide you with pure examples of undeniable Mary worship over and over, yet you still expect us to believe you don't worship her merely on the grounds that you say you don't, and that worship isn't worship merely on the grounds that you say it isn't.

The Roman Catholic Church is going to have to do a LOT more than merely declare Mary is not Co-Mediator, if they want to show that they don't divinize and worship her. It will require you to do much more than just be "uncomfortable with some of the poetic language". You can start by reading that list I provided of quotes from Roman Catholic leaders CLEARLY saying that Mary is NECESSARY for salvation, and completely disavow them as heresy and idolatry.

Are you able to do that? If not, then you're only blowing smoke.

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White smoke?

Realitybites said:

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OsoCoreyell said:

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I want to know by what authority Catholics think it is sound theology to pray to Mary.

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I'm not Roman Catholic but this explanation may help.

Intercessory prayer isn't praying to a person. It is a prayer request that others pray to God for us.

The Biblical support for it is found in these verse:

James 5:16 - Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working."

John 11:26 - "And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (It's a modern heresy that Christians die. Historically, the passing of the Christian has been thought of as the falling asleep of their body in the Lord to await a bodily resurrection. This is why Christians bury their dead, and don't cremate them.)

Hebrews 12:1 - "Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us." (We are surrounded by this great cloud today, not at some point when we get to heaven).

Revelation 8:3-4 "Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel's hand."

The bolded portion of the text is the actual technical mechanism by which God hears your prayer, by the way.

But who gave this angel with the golden censer your prayer to offer to God? Revelation answers that too.

Revelation 5:8 "Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."

As you can see, making prayer requests of other Christians is not limited to those in your Sunday School Class, Church, City, State, Country, or Generation.

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There is NOTHING in Scripture that clearly and explicitly instructs us to pray to departed saints or Mary, or tells us that they even have the ability to receive prayers to begin with. There is no instance whatsoever anywhere in the Old or New Testament of anyone praying to a departed believer for any kind of intercession. None. There exists NO teaching from Jesus or his apostles that we can and should pray to Mary and the saints.

I just don't understand how a church can build a system of faith, worship, and practice on something like praying to Mary or the saints, when the basis of such a practice can only be derived by reading your assumptions into Scripture and drawing non sequitur inferences like you did in order to justify something that really isn't there. Especially since there is no real reason to do it. We have direct access to God and Jesus, and we are explicitly instructed by Jesus himself to go directly to them. This is the clear, unambiguous teaching of Scripture.

The prayers being in "bowls of incense" does not necessarily indicate that those prayers were directed to the saints or Mary. And there is no reason whatsoever to believe that this is the "actual mechanism" by which prayers go up to God. All this is pure eisegesis. And after all, the practice has no real benefit - what does a believer lose if they don't pray to Mary of the saints? On the other hand, if you DO pray to them, you risk committing idolatry and angering God. The risk/reward is way too high for something finding its basis only in haphazard eisegesis. Praying to Mary and the saints had its origins in pagan Rome. In order to make the pagans convert to Christianity, they were allowed to continue praying to their multiple gods, but they just renamed those gods after Christian figures, like Mary and the saints. Those of you who engage in this practice REALLY need to understand this history.

Am I correct in saying RC and Prots define saints differently?

This is a good video especially fir Ps of all persuasions if open minded which i know is difficult for many humans