Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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canoso said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Are we at the point where immigration has become a net negative?

On the plus side, you get good and talented people from other nations.

On the down side, it brings tremendous costs to health care, education, social services, etc.
It pushes down wages.
It inflates housing costs.

An economist could never do a real study for fear of being called names but I am sure we should continue to encourage it.

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"On the down side, it brings tremendous costs to health care, education, social services, etc."

Only if the US constitution continues to be abrogated as far as specifying only very limited functions as federal matters is concerned. There isn't a word, or even an idea, in that document about healthcare, social services, or education, which can only be added through amendment, of which none yet exists. Not saying they can't be, just that they have not been, as much as many want to pretend they have, or simply ignore the document, whichever gets the desired result.

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That is what the Necessary and Proper Clause is for. ACA was done under that and ACTUALLY passed. There is legislation for it that Congress passed. I think it is more than an iota.

Health care is becoming something only the Government will be able to manage. We have ACA on the books, either we reform it or leave it. I don't see the GOP having the votes to kill it.

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. . . in the dead of night on Christmas Eve without a single member of Congress having read the bill and without a single vote from the opposition party.

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It passed 60-39. They got the 60 votes needed. Are you saying they should have not used the majority to pass a bill they wanted? Would the GOP not use a 60 vote majority on what they wanted? I am confused to why you are shocked and disgusted.

McConnell took a Supreme Court justice from Obama by using the rules in place, was that OK? I fail to see your point.

The ACA was designed to decrease the number of uninsured, it did that by 51%. That is a fact. Was it sustainable? No. Was it efficient? No. Which leads us to now. WHAT DO YOU HAVE THAT WILL:

• Decrease the number of uninsured
• Cost less
• Be sustainable
• Increase efficiency

So far I see nothing. All I see is *****ing over Obamacare, GOP NEEDS to come up with something or it will kill them in the midterms. Give the Dems 60 votes and see what happens. Well? Now is the time...

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I apologize. I did not realize you were not aware how the bill escaped the House.

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I do not know why we are stuck on ancient history. GOP needs something on health care, especially if they let the subsidies expire. This is not a debate on the quality of Obamacare, EVERYONE agrees it needs to change. It is about not getting skewered by it in the mid-terms. Even Trump and many of the GOP see that.

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Dude. We know you're a shill for Big Insurance. Stop pretending. You schtick is stupid at this point - you want the working class to subsidize billionaire CEOs of insurance companies.

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There you go again. WHAT DO YOU HAVE BESIDES LEAVING 23 MILLION WITHOUT HEALTH COVERAGE?

Once again, nothing. Free market. Right? How is that going to help ANYONE on January 3rd?

Come on, CHAMPION of the WORK CLASS. What is your solution when premiums triple on January 1st? How does the working man get his appendicitis covered? How does he pay for chemo? Pro Bono? Emergency Room?

https://t.co/fb4Pgdh4Ms pic.twitter.com/cwPJTuPALZ

— eigenrobot (@eigenrobot) December 19, 2025

The economic benefits of illegal immigration include filling essential labor shortages, paying billions in taxes, contributing to a higher national GDP, and boosting consumer spending. These contributions help sustain key industries and support social insurance programs.

Key economic benefits identified in various studies include:

Filling Labor Shortages Undocumented immigrants are a critical part of the workforce in essential industries such as agriculture (making up around 25% of all farm workers), construction, and the service industry, often taking jobs with low wages and difficult conditions that few native-born workers are willing to do. This helps ease labor shortages and keeps these sectors running smoothly.

Tax Contributions Undocumented immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes, including sales, property, and income taxes. In 2022, they paid an estimated $96.7 billion in taxes, with over a third of that amount going toward Social Security and Medicare programs from which they are often ineligible to receive benefits.

Consumer Spending Power The wages earned by undocumented immigrants are largely spent in the U.S. economy on goods and services, driving demand and supporting local businesses and jobs. Their total spending power was estimated at nearly $300 billion in 2023.

Entrepreneurship and Job Creation Immigrants, including the undocumented, have higher rates of entrepreneurship than native-born citizens and often start small, community-centered businesses that create jobs for both immigrants and U.S. citizens.

Overall Economic Growth The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and other economic research institutions project that immigration significantly boosts the U.S. GDP. A CBO report estimated that an increase in immigration would add $8.9 trillion to the GDP over a decade, with much of the growth attributed to an expanded workforce and increased demand.

Support for Social Safety Nets By paying into programs like Social Security and Medicare without receiving benefits, undocumented immigrants help the solvency of these trust funds, effectively subsidizing the benefits for eligible Americans.

While the overall economic impact on the U.S. is generally considered a small net positive, studies note that the costs for providing some services (e.g., education and emergency health care) can create a fiscal burden for certain state and local governments.

Killer point. Each asylum seeker wipes out one median British taxpayer’s entire lifetime contribution. Last year almost 110,000 people claimed asylum here. https://t.co/IPaIyIgU9l

— David Shipley (@ShipleyWrites) December 19, 2025

Have you head of Inspiritus in Georgia?

Since 2021, they've been awarded over $60 million in federal taxpayer dollars to resettle foreigners all over the state.

They pay for EVERYTHING! Look at all these services! They even issue business loans through Thrive Community… https://t.co/hgHXR3zaME pic.twitter.com/RSYPaOnrBB

— Oilfield Rando (@Oilfield_Rando) December 14, 2025

Just to sum up what some of you have already mentioned, plus maybe a bit more:

Immigration offers significant benefits to the U.S. by boosting economic growth, filling critical labor shortages (especially in healthcare, tech, and agriculture), driving innovation and entrepreneurship (immigrants start many businesses and patents), increasing tax revenues, and enriching cultural diversity, all while helping to support programs like Social Security and Medicare through increased workforce participation and consumer spending.

Economic Contributions:
Labor Force & Productivity: Immigrants expand the labor force, fill jobs where native-born workers are scarce (e.g., agriculture, construction, tech), and improve overall economic productivity and GDP.
Innovation & Business: Immigrants have high rates of entrepreneurship, founding many new businesses, and contributing significantly to patents, particularly in strategic industries.

Fiscal Impact: Immigrants contribute billions in taxes (sales, property, income, payroll) and help fund essential programs like Social Security and Medicare, often paying more in taxes than they consume in public services.

Workforce & Industry:
Filling Gaps: They meet vital needs in healthcare (nurses, aides), food production, STEM fields (science, tech, engineering, math), and construction.
Skills & Specialization: Immigrants bring diverse skills, leading to better resource allocation, job matching, and higher economic output.

Social & Cultural Benefits:
Cultural Enrichment: Immigrants bring new ideas, traditions, and perspectives, enriching American culture and values.

Community Vitality: They help sustain communities, especially in rural areas, by creating businesses and contributing to the local tax base.

Overall Impact:
Economic Strength: Data shows that immigration strengthens the U.S. economy, supports job creation, and helps keep inflation down.

Long-Term Growth: By increasing human capital and innovation, immigration fuels long-term economic growth and dynamism.

$600 million in federal funds for resettling foreigners in Ohio and paying their bills.

Just over the last decade.

Insanity. https://t.co/AoPFKn6nhf

— Oilfield Rando (@Oilfield_Rando) December 21, 2025

BUDOS said:

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Just to sum up what some of you have already mentioned, plus maybe a bit more:

Immigration offers significant benefits to the U.S. by boosting economic growth, filling critical labor shortages (especially in healthcare, tech, and agriculture), driving innovation and entrepreneurship (immigrants start many businesses and patents), increasing tax revenues, and enriching cultural diversity, all while helping to support programs like Social Security and Medicare through increased workforce participation and consumer spending.

Economic Contributions:
Labor Force & Productivity: Immigrants expand the labor force, fill jobs where native-born workers are scarce (e.g., agriculture, construction, tech), and improve overall economic productivity and GDP.
Innovation & Business: Immigrants have high rates of entrepreneurship, founding many new businesses, and contributing significantly to patents, particularly in strategic industries.

Fiscal Impact: Immigrants contribute billions in taxes (sales, property, income, payroll) and help fund essential programs like Social Security and Medicare, often paying more in taxes than they consume in public services.

Workforce & Industry:
Filling Gaps: They meet vital needs in healthcare (nurses, aides), food production, STEM fields (science, tech, engineering, math), and construction.
Skills & Specialization: Immigrants bring diverse skills, leading to better resource allocation, job matching, and higher economic output.

Social & Cultural Benefits:
Cultural Enrichment: Immigrants bring new ideas, traditions, and perspectives, enriching American culture and values.

Community Vitality: They help sustain communities, especially in rural areas, by creating businesses and contributing to the local tax base.

Overall Impact:
Economic Strength: Data shows that immigration strengthens the U.S. economy, supports job creation, and helps keep inflation down.

Long-Term Growth: By increasing human capital and innovation, immigration fuels long-term economic growth and dynamism.

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You are leaving out the biggest factor

If these immigrants don't come from high IQ countries then they are in fact a fiscal drain for their entire lives

2024 Dutch version of the famous Danish "It's Complicated" graph. First generation immigrants are net fiscal negatives at all ages - entirely because of "non-western" immigrants. But at least the Netherlands benefits from... there must be something. (new study, short thread) pic.twitter.com/x71pSI8NSb

— arctotherium (@arctotherium42) January 2, 2025

We're about to go from "it's not happening" to "it's happening, and it's bad that it's being stopped" really quickly. https://t.co/Mb509QJuST

— Bonchie (@bonchieredstate) December 23, 2025

U.S. GDP rose 4.3% in the quarter while Canada rose 0.1%

Canada famously has imported over 5 million Indians in 3 years supposedly to “help GDP” https://t.co/asNAex4nlo

— Latinx Adjacent Doctor PhD (@TonerousHyus) December 23, 2025

BUDOS said:

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The economic benefits of illegal immigration include filling essential labor shortages, paying billions in taxes, contributing to a higher national GDP, and boosting consumer spending. These contributions help sustain key industries and support social insurance programs.

Key economic benefits identified in various studies include:

Filling Labor Shortages Undocumented immigrants are a critical part of the workforce in essential industries such as agriculture (making up around 25% of all farm workers), construction, and the service industry, often taking jobs with low wages and difficult conditions that few native-born workers are willing to do. This helps ease labor shortages and keeps these sectors running smoothly.

Tax Contributions Undocumented immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes, including sales, property, and income taxes. In 2022, they paid an estimated $96.7 billion in taxes, with over a third of that amount going toward Social Security and Medicare programs from which they are often ineligible to receive benefits.

Consumer Spending Power The wages earned by undocumented immigrants are largely spent in the U.S. economy on goods and services, driving demand and supporting local businesses and jobs. Their total spending power was estimated at nearly $300 billion in 2023.

Entrepreneurship and Job Creation Immigrants, including the undocumented, have higher rates of entrepreneurship than native-born citizens and often start small, community-centered businesses that create jobs for both immigrants and U.S. citizens.

Overall Economic Growth The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and other economic research institutions project that immigration significantly boosts the U.S. GDP. A CBO report estimated that an increase in immigration would add $8.9 trillion to the GDP over a decade, with much of the growth attributed to an expanded workforce and increased demand.

Support for Social Safety Nets By paying into programs like Social Security and Medicare without receiving benefits, undocumented immigrants help the solvency of these trust funds, effectively subsidizing the benefits for eligible Americans.

While the overall economic impact on the U.S. is generally considered a small net positive, studies note that the costs for providing some services (e.g., education and emergency health care) can create a fiscal burden for certain state and local governments.

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Every word complete bull***** But keep telling yourself that while you wait 30 hours to see a doctor in the ER, while housing costs skyrocket, while crime increases, but you keep your slaves just like your democrat forefathers.

Instead, Pope Leo XIV has spoken repeatedly about his concerns over how migrants are treated in the US, calling for "deep reflection" on the matter in November. The pontiff evoked the gospel of Matthew, adding that "Jesus says very clearly, at the end of the world, we're going to be asked, 'How did you receive the foreigner?"
A week later the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), issued a rare "Special Message" voicing their "concern for the evolving situation impacting immigrants in the United States".
The bishops said they were "disturbed" at what they called "a climate of fear and anxiety". They added that they "oppose the indiscriminate mass deportation of people" and "pray for an end to dehumanizing rhetoric and violence".
It was a significant intervention, the first time the USCCB had used such a communique in a dozen years. It was backed by the Pope, who called the statement "very important" and urged all Catholics and "people of goodwill, to listen carefully" to it.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg1361d32ro


The U.S. bishops' pro-life agenda focused for decades on ending legal abortion in the country, with their national conference supporting an annual march in Washington, D.C. and lobbying to end the now overturned 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling.
Leo appeared to broaden the pro-life umbrella in September, when he questioned whether U.S. President Donald Trump's policies were in line with the Church's teachings, drawing a heated backlash from some prominent conservative Catholics.
"Someone who says I am against abortion but I am in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life," the pope said in response to journalists' questions outside his residence in Castel Gandolfo, in Italy.



I know we are a Baptist University but I think there may be a few Catholics sneaking in. I am not a Catholic but have attended quite a few because of the places I have worked.

FLBear5630 said:

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There you go again. WHAT DO YOU HAVE BESIDES LEAVING 23 MILLION WITHOUT HEALTH COVERAGE?

Once again, nothing. Free market. Right? How is that going to help ANYONE on January 3rd?

Come on, CHAMPION of the WORK CLASS. What is your solution when premiums triple on January 1st? How does the working man get his appendicitis covered? How does he pay for chemo? Pro Bono? Emergency Room?

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(1) A wholesale repeal of Obamacare except for the pre-existing conditions clause with a caveat. Shut down healthcare.gov. This will allow insurance companies to offer more affordable, tailored policies.
(2) A federal ban on insurance coverage for treatments - both medical and surgical - for transgender anything.
(3) Mandatory checks for immigration status in the Emergency Room, which is some of the most expensive care in medicine. A repeal of EMTALA with regards to illegal aliens.
(4) A federal law elevating medical malpractice claims to a gross negligence standard for guilt.

That's a start. Yes, these are difficult solutions for a difficult problem. Obamacare was never designed to work. It was always designed to break the system and pave the way for a national health service.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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There you go again. WHAT DO YOU HAVE BESIDES LEAVING 23 MILLION WITHOUT HEALTH COVERAGE?

Once again, nothing. Free market. Right? How is that going to help ANYONE on January 3rd?

Come on, CHAMPION of the WORK CLASS. What is your solution when premiums triple on January 1st? How does the working man get his appendicitis covered? How does he pay for chemo? Pro Bono? Emergency Room?

---

(1) A wholesale repeal of Obamacare except for the pre-existing conditions clause with a caveat. Shut down healthcare.gov. This will allow insurance companies to offer more affordable, tailored policies.
(2) A federal ban on insurance coverage for treatments - both medical and surgical - for transgender anything.
(3) Mandatory checks for immigration status in the Emergency Room, which is some of the most expensive care in medicine. A repeal of EMTALA with regards to illegal aliens.
(4) A federal law elevating medical malpractice claims to a gross negligence standard for guilt.

That's a start. Yes, these are difficult solutions for a difficult problem. Obamacare was never designed to work. It was always designed to break the system and pave the way for a national health service.

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I am good with all of them. (#2 I would make an exception for true hermaphrodites, they have to make a choice)


Now, can we get it done in 6 days?

That is the point, we all agree reform is necessary. But, what do you do WHILE you are getting it done? Let all those that have ACA have no insurance or get destroyed by an additional $1000 a month?

I think this is where the bi-partisan groups are in Congress and even Trump has come around on it. They squandered any chance to deal with this cleanly.

You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

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it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

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it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

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You still cannot explain your obsession with giving billions in kickbacks to Big Insurance.

BUDOS said:

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The economic benefits of illegal immigration include filling essential labor shortages, paying billions in taxes, contributing to a higher national GDP, and boosting consumer spending. These contributions help sustain key industries and support social insurance programs.

Key economic benefits identified in various studies include:

Filling Labor Shortages Undocumented immigrants are a critical part of the workforce in essential industries such as agriculture (making up around 25% of all farm workers), construction, and the service industry, often taking jobs with low wages and difficult conditions that few native-born workers are willing to do. This helps ease labor shortages and keeps these sectors running smoothly.

Tax Contributions Undocumented immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes, including sales, property, and income taxes. In 2022, they paid an estimated $96.7 billion in taxes, with over a third of that amount going toward Social Security and Medicare programs from which they are often ineligible to receive benefits.

Consumer Spending Power The wages earned by undocumented immigrants are largely spent in the U.S. economy on goods and services, driving demand and supporting local businesses and jobs. Their total spending power was estimated at nearly $300 billion in 2023.

Entrepreneurship and Job Creation Immigrants, including the undocumented, have higher rates of entrepreneurship than native-born citizens and often start small, community-centered businesses that create jobs for both immigrants and U.S. citizens.

Overall Economic Growth The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and other economic research institutions project that immigration significantly boosts the U.S. GDP. A CBO report estimated that an increase in immigration would add $8.9 trillion to the GDP over a decade, with much of the growth attributed to an expanded workforce and increased demand.

Support for Social Safety Nets By paying into programs like Social Security and Medicare without receiving benefits, undocumented immigrants help the solvency of these trust funds, effectively subsidizing the benefits for eligible Americans.

While the overall economic impact on the U.S. is generally considered a small net positive, studies note that the costs for providing some services (e.g., education and emergency health care) can create a fiscal burden for certain state and local governments.

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Would you like to grab lunch? I have a very limited offer to invest in some Arizona beachfront property I think would interest you.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

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it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

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You still cannot explain your obsession with giving billions in kickbacks to Big Insurance.

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Give it up.

What is your obsession with leaving people with no health care? Why do you want to hurt so many people?

FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

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it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

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You still cannot explain your obsession with giving billions in kickbacks to Big Insurance.

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Give it up.

What is your obsession with leaving people with no health care? Why do you want to hurt so many people?

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Sweetie, I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

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it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

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You still cannot explain your obsession with giving billions in kickbacks to Big Insurance.

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Give it up.

What is your obsession with leaving people with no health care? Why do you want to hurt so many people?

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Sweetie, I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

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Just don't get why you want to leave so many people either paying insurance companies more or without health coverage in a week? That is a real nasty thing to do.

Really, only someone with NO real life experience would back that and think it was a good idea. Go back to your theory and let the adults handle the real world. One day you may get a seat at the big table when you mature a little.

FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

---

it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

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It isn't, and I'm not really sure what the obstacle on the GOP side is. They've talked about repealing Obamacare for years and fixing the system and the two times they have had the opportunity to do this, they have refused.

For the democrats, it is because they don't want to see anything derail the push for a national health service.

One thing is for sure, if they let this go into Q1 of 2026, premiums spike, and people lose coverage November is going to become an extinction level event for the GOP. I do not think that they have fully grasped the threat this poses.

Realitybites said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Realitybites said:

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You extend the subsidies for the first quarter of 2026 to give the insurance companies time to react to what the new environment will be so that as of April 1st, people will be able to switch to other, affordable policies.

---

it really is not that hard. I think if Trump came out with that people would applaud. Increase service, decrease cost and get the insurance out of the middle, without having a hole in your coverage? It is a winning ticket with everyone.

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It isn't, and I'm not really sure what the obstacle on the GOP side is. They've talked about repealing Obamacare for years and fixing the system and the two times they have had the opportunity to do this, they have refused.

For the democrats, it is because they don't want to see anything derail the push for a national health service.

One thing is for sure, if they let this go into Q1 of 2026, premiums spike, and people lose coverage November is going to become an extinction level event for the GOP. I do not think that they have fully grasped the threat this poses.

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You get it. We risk everything over this. Idiots cam spew economics lessons or spite the insurance companies who are getting rich no matter what we do. But come November, the GOP is going to get the blame.

How did anyone actually fall for the whole “if you import a bunch of people from shithole countries, your country will improve” bit?

I can’t wrap my head around it. I have a hard time believing anyone actually ever believed it. They only said they did out of fear or malice. https://t.co/FnprPHjWiY

— Blake Kresses (@BlakeKresses) December 24, 2025