Realitybites said:Fre3dombear said:
Nowhere in the Bible does it say good people go
To Heaven. It's a sad way to graft money from people looking for an easy way out, to Preach ones way to fame and fortune and big house etc
In reality, the people who go to heaven are those whose souls are illumined and their communion with God the Father is restored through God the Son.
Oldbear83 said:
The sin is yours. Sad you will even defend it.
I will continue to pray for you.
Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Fre3dombear said:ShooterTX said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Oldbear83 said:DallasBear9902 said:Oldbear83 said:
Comparing your opinion to Jesus' teachings?
Just a tad arrogant, that.
Not making that comparison at all. Only illustrating that a failure to address an accusation is not a confession (using an example we all agree on).
Granted, both sides are acting a bit heated. Not conducive to a healthy conversation climate, that.
The level of projection here is absolutely INSANE.
Folks, not answering the question is what isn't conducive to a "healthy conversation climate".
It's very strange.
Not long ago, one of these Catholics told me that I should study the story of Fatima, because it would prove to me that the worship of Mary was legit.
Then another one talked about Guadalupe as proof that Mary worship was powerful and so on.
Now they want to ignore both stories?? Very strange.
I've studied both stories, and all it proves is that Catholics are engaged in idolatry. There is no way that the same God who said, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me," would then send a woman to tell His followers to pray to her, build her a bunch of churches, sing songs of praise to her... no way that Fatima and Guadalupe were sent from heaven. Those messages are in direct opposition to the direct instructions from God through the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles.
As has been stated ad nauseum, theres no worship without sacrifice. Never seen anyone sacrifice anything to Mary
Ive been to many a sunday mega church, Bible church as they call it, etc. never seen a sacrifice at any of those either. Ever.
So, so wrong.
When John bowed down to the angel at the end of Revelation, the angel reprimanded him for doing so, saying it was WORSHIP (Revelation 22:9). John was not sacrificing anything.
Good point.
This again all goes back to the Catholic heretical idea that we are able to save ourselves through some action on our part, or some "sacrifice," as the case may be. I was in a religious discussion with a Catholic neighbor who is a good friend the other day and he was offended at the thought that he played no role in his salvation. It bruised his ego to think that all of the sacraments he had partaken in were nothing more than filthy rags.
Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Fre3dombear said:ShooterTX said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Oldbear83 said:DallasBear9902 said:Oldbear83 said:
Comparing your opinion to Jesus' teachings?
Just a tad arrogant, that.
Not making that comparison at all. Only illustrating that a failure to address an accusation is not a confession (using an example we all agree on).
Granted, both sides are acting a bit heated. Not conducive to a healthy conversation climate, that.
The level of projection here is absolutely INSANE.
Folks, not answering the question is what isn't conducive to a "healthy conversation climate".
It's very strange.
Not long ago, one of these Catholics told me that I should study the story of Fatima, because it would prove to me that the worship of Mary was legit.
Then another one talked about Guadalupe as proof that Mary worship was powerful and so on.
Now they want to ignore both stories?? Very strange.
I've studied both stories, and all it proves is that Catholics are engaged in idolatry. There is no way that the same God who said, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me," would then send a woman to tell His followers to pray to her, build her a bunch of churches, sing songs of praise to her... no way that Fatima and Guadalupe were sent from heaven. Those messages are in direct opposition to the direct instructions from God through the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles.
As has been stated ad nauseum, theres no worship without sacrifice. Never seen anyone sacrifice anything to Mary
Ive been to many a sunday mega church, Bible church as they call it, etc. never seen a sacrifice at any of those either. Ever.
So, so wrong.
When John bowed down to the angel at the end of Revelation, the angel reprimanded him for doing so, saying it was WORSHIP (Revelation 22:9). John was not sacrificing anything.
Good point.
This again all goes back to the Catholic heretical idea that we are able to save ourselves through some action on our part, or some "sacrifice," as the case may be. I was in a religious discussion with a Catholic neighbor who is a good friend the other day and he was offended at the thought that he played no role in his salvation. It bruised his ego to think that all of the sacraments he had partaken in were nothing more than filthy rags.
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
The sin is yours. Sad you will even defend it.
I will continue to pray for you.
I always take any prayers even after God calls me home. Thank you! Your judgement is rather odd but you do you. Will he interesting when God shows that act to you later.
ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:quash said:Oldbear83 said:DallasBear9902 said:Oldbear83 said:
Comparing your opinion to Jesus' teachings?
Just a tad arrogant, that.
Not making that comparison at all. Only illustrating that a failure to address an accusation is not a confession (using an example we all agree on).
Hmmm. Seemed a tad proud, your post. Not like you couldn't have chosen someone else for your comparison.
Granted, both sides are acting a bit heated. Not conducive to a healthy conversation climate, that.
You're seriously on him for using the subject of the thread as a point of comparison?
The subject of the thread is worship of Mary, not whether someone implies they are Christlike in their standing.
Ummmm wrong
I created this thread which has generated significamt lively discussions and some hilarious uneducated comments along the way as well.
It is NOT about worship Of Mary. Dont know anyone that worships Mary and never created a thread about worshipping Mary mother of God. Maybe some Protestant Christian sects think that but they are wrong of course.
Dude, check the thread title. Too late now to pretend it says something else.
Honor = worship? I see why you on struggle bus so often.
Honor your father and mother
Oops i mean you think it says worship your father and mother.
Your poorly constructed talking points make a lot more sense now
I honor my father & mother.
I don't build churches to them. I don't pray prayers to them. I don't sing songs of worship & praise to them. I don't build statutes of them. I don't bow too those statues or lay flowers at the feet of the statues or kiss the feet of those statues.
The entire world understands that these actions are worship. Only Catholics believe that bowing & kissing a statue is not a form of worship. Only Catholics believe that building churches, singing songs and praying prayers to someone other that God is not idolatry.
ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:
What came first, the Bible or the Catholic church?
The scriptures were written long before the bishop of Rome declared himself to be the Pope, and fabricated the lineage of Popes.
Perhaps you think the Bible only existed after the canonization process was completed?
Some of the New Testament letters were written before the first house churches were established in Rome itself.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
The sin is yours. Sad you will even defend it.
I will continue to pray for you.
I always take any prayers even after God calls me home. Thank you! Your judgement is rather odd but you do you. Will he interesting when God shows that act to you later.
You are quite welcome, and I too appreciate prayers.
One word of advice, though. You are supremely confident that you are correct and I am wrong. That has led you to making some impolite and condescending comments.
Job's friends did the same, if you check Scripture. They saw Job in his trouble and decided to blame him. The Lord had some words of correction for them.
Now I am nowhere near Job in character, but I mentioned that passage because for all my faults, I go to the Lord and daily ask for wisdom and correction when needed, and I suggest you might find worth in doing the same.
Much better to hear correction now, than later in a more severe situation.
May the Lord bless all His servants, even the poor ones, and may His patience not wear out with us.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:I’ve read all surviving documents from Martin at some time in my K-12 Lutheran School education. Martin’s error is believing the Bible is self interpreting. Phillip and the eunuch in Acts proves it needs tradition alongside it.
— Stephen Smith (@neumotiontherap) March 28, 2026
The Eunuch was reading Isaiah 53 in a language that was foreign to him. Phillip, a teacher, was trying to explain the meaning of Isaiah 53 (a difficult passage in its own right, especially without the requisite knowledge of Christ), and how it related to Jesus, who had just died and rose again - a fact the Eunuch was unaware of.
The idea that Philip's explanation to the Eunuch somehow supports the idea that we must have a Catholic Church explain scripture to us is an incredible stretch of those verses to fit a preconceived narrative.
LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
That's the way you see it.
I'm trying to have a dialogue you're, by your own admission are yelling at people.
LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
That's the way you see it.
I'm trying to have a dialogue you're, by your own admission are yelling at people.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Fre3dombear said:ShooterTX said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Oldbear83 said:DallasBear9902 said:Oldbear83 said:
Comparing your opinion to Jesus' teachings?
Just a tad arrogant, that.
Not making that comparison at all. Only illustrating that a failure to address an accusation is not a confession (using an example we all agree on).
Granted, both sides are acting a bit heated. Not conducive to a healthy conversation climate, that.
The level of projection here is absolutely INSANE.
Folks, not answering the question is what isn't conducive to a "healthy conversation climate".
It's very strange.
Not long ago, one of these Catholics told me that I should study the story of Fatima, because it would prove to me that the worship of Mary was legit.
Then another one talked about Guadalupe as proof that Mary worship was powerful and so on.
Now they want to ignore both stories?? Very strange.
I've studied both stories, and all it proves is that Catholics are engaged in idolatry. There is no way that the same God who said, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me," would then send a woman to tell His followers to pray to her, build her a bunch of churches, sing songs of praise to her... no way that Fatima and Guadalupe were sent from heaven. Those messages are in direct opposition to the direct instructions from God through the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles.
As has been stated ad nauseum, theres no worship without sacrifice. Never seen anyone sacrifice anything to Mary
Ive been to many a sunday mega church, Bible church as they call it, etc. never seen a sacrifice at any of those either. Ever.
So, so wrong.
When John bowed down to the angel at the end of Revelation, the angel reprimanded him for doing so, saying it was WORSHIP (Revelation 22:9). John was not sacrificing anything.
Good point.
This again all goes back to the Catholic heretical idea that we are able to save ourselves through some action on our part, or some "sacrifice," as the case may be. I was in a religious discussion with a Catholic neighbor who is a good friend the other day and he was offended at the thought that he played no role in his salvation. It bruised his ego to think that all of the sacraments he had partaken in were nothing more than filthy rags.
No Catholic believes their acts save themselves. The fundamental ignorance of the universal church on display of Protestant Christians is comical.
DallasBear9902 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:DallasBear9902 said:
Check the edit.
Your edit makes your post even more ridiculous. You were wrong, so why not just admit it, instead of digging your hole deeper?
And you're still avoiding the question. And it's clear why.
Your question cannot be answered because the foundation is incorrect. If you would like to correct your facts and resubmit your question, I'll try to tackle it.
My best guess is that you get Guadalupe wrong because Nahuatl was translated to Spanish and you are probably relying on English translations of the derivative translation to try to understand it.
I am fortunate enough to be a native speaker of both English and Spanish having split my childhood (and primary education) almost perfectly in half between the USA and a Latin American country (my dad was partially in the oil infrastructure business which meant years-long projects working with the Latin American state-oil companies and he spoke Spanish which meant he was the right guy to send south). When my family lived full time in Latin America I would spend all major school
holidays and summer breaks with my Anglo extended family in the USA (mostly ArkLaTex area) and when my family was living full time in the USA I would spend all major holidays and summers with extended Latin American family in Latin America precisely because my parents wanted both language skills developed. I can clam with a straight face that I would leave America to summer camp in Spanish and vice versa.
I give you that long-winded color to tell you something gets lost/added in the translation via cultural context of words that is extremely hard to pin down.
So when Guadalupe in Nahuatl translated to Spanish says: " Mucho quiero, mucho deseo que aqu me levanten mi casita sagrada, en donde lo mostrar" and then to English you hear "build a church in my honor", I understand how you are getting there, but I am telling you the Spanish does not say that. I understand how it gets translated to a point where that is what you read into the translation. But the original just doesn't say it.
There is just a lot of cultural and structural context to
The language that gets lost in the translation (and over time). So, when "levanten mi casita sagrada" gets translated to "build my sacred church" (or whatever translation you are using) and you think it means build a church to honor of Our Lady of Guadalupe, I get how you get there. But that isn't what it says (at least in Spanish). I think the better translation to English is to build a church in her name, but that doesn't quite capture it either. Which I guess should really make us wonder about what was said in the original Nahuatl.
To this day, a half dozen times a year or so I'll drop into Spanish-speaking, immigrant dominated parishes (not parishes where there is a Spanish Mass, but parishes where there is no English Mass) to attend services. You can find these Catholic Churches in East and South Dallas. I do this typically on a Sunday night after having attended English service with my family earlier in the day (alas, my wife and kids are gringos). Same exact readings (this is the Catholic Church!) and (typically) a similar homily. I don't know how to explain it, the readings and message across the languages is just … different. And it is driven by the cultural/contextual meanings of the words being used. For example, in the Spanish language, some readings could come off as straight up anti-semantic in a way that doesn't happen with the English translations. . . You can see where I am going with this.
Anyway, that's my stab at your question. I know you'll accusing me of deflecting and avoiding the question, but that's the best I can give you: your factual understanding is just off, and thus the foundation you try to set up is all wrong making it impossible to answer your question under the parameters you want it answered.
DallasBear9902 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:DallasBear9902 said:
Check the edit.
Your edit makes your post even more ridiculous. You were wrong, so why not just admit it, instead of digging your hole deeper?
And you're still avoiding the question. And it's clear why.
1. What is your explanation for the metaphysical events surrounding Guadalupe?
2. Why does Guadalupe lead to the immediate end of some of the most brutal practices of human (in particular child) sacrifice that have ever happened in the world? She also leads to one of the largest mass evangelization events recorded in history with countless Baptisms in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirt. Those all seem consistent with God's plan. How do you explain that one?
3. Does it not seem odd to you that we deny worshipping what *you* think is deity to us? Catholics freely admit they worship the Trinitarian God of Abraham. If we really thought of Mary as worthy of worship then a denial of worship would be an offense. So which it: are we worshipping or offending by denying we worship?
4. What denomination are you?
ShooterTX said:DallasBear9902 said:Fre3dombear said:ShooterTX said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Oldbear83 said:DallasBear9902 said:Oldbear83 said:
Comparing your opinion to Jesus' teachings?
Just a tad arrogant, that.
Not making that comparison at all. Only illustrating that a failure to address an accusation is not a confession (using an example we all agree on).
Granted, both sides are acting a bit heated. Not conducive to a healthy conversation climate, that.
The level of projection here is absolutely INSANE.
Folks, not answering the question is what isn't conducive to a "healthy conversation climate".
It's very strange.
Not long ago, one of these Catholics told me that I should study the story of Fatima, because it would prove to me that the worship of Mary was legit.
Then another one talked about Guadalupe as proof that Mary worship was powerful and so on.
Now they want to ignore both stories?? Very strange.
I've studied both stories, and all it proves is that Catholics are engaged in idolatry. There is no way that the same God who said, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me," would then send a woman to tell His followers to pray to her, build her a bunch of churches, sing songs of praise to her... no way that Fatima and Guadalupe were sent from heaven. Those messages are in direct opposition to the direct instructions from God through the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles.
As has been stated ad nauseum, theres no worship without sacrifice. Never seen anyone sacrifice anything to Mary
Ive been to many a sunday mega church, Bible church as they call it, etc. never seen a sacrifice at any of those either. Ever.
At stations of the cross tonight we said 14 different individualized prayers directed at Jesus. I suppose we squeezed in a Hail Mary in between an Our Father and Glory Be at the end…. We must have missed the memo on the Mary worship tonight….
Honestly if the brick wall and his little side kick could at least be honest in their criticism and attacks it might be worth engagement. But the intentional misrepresentation says a lot.
Are you familiar with the rosary?
If so, please tell us how many rosary prayers are to God vs how many to Mary.
Also if you don't worship Mary, please explain why there are more Catholic Church named in honor of Mary, than in honor of God.
Also explain why every year millions of Catholics go on pianos pilgrimage to visit one of the sites of her apparition, and offer flowers, songs and prayers to her.
I'm glad you had an experience the other day without worshipping Mary.
Doc Holliday said:
In Acts they took cloths from Paul's body to drive out devils and healed people.
The bones of Elijah raised the dead.
These relics were deified by the uncreated energies of God.
When the Son of God assumed human nature in the incarnation, he deified that nature with his uncreated energy. That same uncreated energy is what deifies the saints. Paul says its the power of God that worketh in me. Because Christ became human, matter is affirmed as good. Veneration passes through the image to the prototype (the saint).
We don't worship the bone or the cloth as a god (latria), but we honor the prototype (the person/God) that the object reflects (dulia).
A person is not a soul temporarily inhabiting a body but a psychosomatic unity. The body that prayed, fasted, received the Eucharist, and was indwelt by the Spirit is genuinely that person's body. That's why the bone of Elisha isn't just a tool God happened to use…it's the body of a man whose whole person was being deified. Icon/relic veneration isn't arbitrary materialism. It follows necessarily from Incarnation theology.
Doc Holliday said:
In Acts they took cloths from Paul's body to drive out devils and healed people.
The bones of Elijah raised the dead.
These relics were deified by the uncreated energies of God.
When the Son of God assumed human nature in the incarnation, he deified that nature with his uncreated energy. That same uncreated energy is what deifies the saints. Paul says its the power of God that worketh in me. Because Christ became human, matter is affirmed as good. Veneration passes through the image to the prototype (the saint).
We don't worship the bone or the cloth as a god (latria), but we honor the prototype (the person/God) that the object reflects (dulia).
A person is not a soul temporarily inhabiting a body but a psychosomatic unity. The body that prayed, fasted, received the Eucharist, and was indwelt by the Spirit is genuinely that person's body. That's why the bone of Elisha isn't just a tool God happened to use…it's the body of a man whose whole person was being deified. Icon/relic veneration isn't arbitrary materialism. It follows necessarily from Incarnation theology.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
That's the way you see it.
I'm trying to have a dialogue you're, by your own admission are yelling at people.
Yes, yelling is often required to those who's hearing is dulled.
You have the "dialogue" you want. I just don't see the utility or even the relevance of your "whataboutism" regarding protestant follies here and there that have nothing to do with me or others, in a thread about Marian "veneration", i.e. idolatry.
simply put but not simpleBusyTarpDuster2017 said:Realitybites said:Fre3dombear said:
Nowhere in the Bible does it say good people go
To Heaven. It's a sad way to graft money from people looking for an easy way out, to Preach ones way to fame and fortune and big house etc
In reality, the people who go to heaven are those whose souls are illumined and their communion with God the Father is restored through God the Son.
.... simply through faith in Jesus.
Oldbear83 said:
When someone needs a Pope for an intercessor when he could have Christ, well ...
LIB,MR BEARS said:Oldbear83 said:
When someone needs a Pope for an intercessor when he could have Christ, well ...
In Matthew 27:51, why was the veil torn? Why was it torn from top to bottom?
LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
That's the way you see it.
I'm trying to have a dialogue you're, by your own admission are yelling at people.
Yes, yelling is often required to those who's hearing is dulled.
You have the "dialogue" you want. I just don't see the utility or even the relevance of your "whataboutism" regarding protestant follies here and there that have nothing to do with me or others, in a thread about Marian "veneration", i.e. idolatry.
I've stated that I think we all have somethings wrong. But, there are some VERY clear things in scripture. To borrow from Alistair Begg, "the plain things are the main things and, the main things are the plain things."
I believe those clear things should be dogma and we should be dogmatic on them. On things that are somewhat vague I don't want to be dogmatic on them and I certainly don't want to hold someone to my dogma.
I'm a Protestant who has been married to a Catholic for nearly 40 years. There is a reason that I've not converted to Catholicism.
If you think dialogue is "whataboutism", I'm sorry.
I can only ask you a question.
After speaking (yelling) what you see as the truth, do you believe anyone will be converted by more yelling?
Plant and water all you can. But, keep in mind, it is God that gives the increase. I don't think more yelling is going to move Him any faster.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
That's the way you see it.
I'm trying to have a dialogue you're, by your own admission are yelling at people.
Yes, yelling is often required to those who's hearing is dulled.
You have the "dialogue" you want. I just don't see the utility or even the relevance of your "whataboutism" regarding protestant follies here and there that have nothing to do with me or others, in a thread about Marian "veneration", i.e. idolatry.
I've stated that I think we all have somethings wrong. But, there are some VERY clear things in scripture. To borrow from Alistair Begg, "the plain things are the main things and, the main things are the plain things."
I believe those clear things should be dogma and we should be dogmatic on them. On things that are somewhat vague I don't want to be dogmatic on them and I certainly don't want to hold someone to my dogma.
I'm a Protestant who has been married to a Catholic for nearly 40 years. There is a reason that I've not converted to Catholicism.
If you think dialogue is "whataboutism", I'm sorry.
I can only ask you a question.
After speaking (yelling) what you see as the truth, do you believe anyone will be converted by more yelling?
Plant and water all you can. But, keep in mind, it is God that gives the increase. I don't think more yelling is going to move Him any faster.
What is not a "main thing" about what I'm adressing? If you don't see the Roman Catholic church's authority having a hold over their people into believing a false gospel as well as towards heresy and idolatry as a "main thing" that has eternal consequences, then that leaves me to wonder.
I'm really not understanding the point of your "dialogue" - since there are crazy, unbiblical protestant churches out there..... DON'T call out the errors of the Roman Catholic church... in a thread about that topic?? Because that would be "yelling", right?
And remember, I WAS THE ONE simply asking a question. But somehow, when I do it, it's unproductive "yelling", but when you do it, it's "dialogue". Your perception here is unbalanced an unimpartial, and now I know why - you're married to a Catholic, so you're treating it with kid gloves as you're accustomed to, no doubt, in family gatherings. You might even be offended for their sake by what I'm saying. Understandable, but your bias and whataboutism isn't really doing anything to move the needle here. How does showing crazy protestants jumping on the pulpit show Roman Catholics their errors and get them to repent?
I'm not really here to convert people. If it somehow happens, then to God be all the glory. All I'm aiming to do, is to biblically, factually, historically, and logically argue for the truth, and to show others that they're position is NOT defendable in like manner. What they do with that is up to them. And yes, I think I've been successful at that. If you disagree, you are more than welcome to argue against anything I've said.
You can try your "kid glove" approach if that's what you think is best. But I think that people with deeply rooted beliefs like Roman Catholics must have their beliefs uprooted before any seed planted and watered will be able to grow.
4th and Inches said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Realitybites said:Fre3dombear said:
Nowhere in the Bible does it say good people go
To Heaven. It's a sad way to graft money from people looking for an easy way out, to Preach ones way to fame and fortune and big house etc
In reality, the people who go to heaven are those whose souls are illumined and their communion with God the Father is restored through God the Son.
.... simply through faith in Jesus.
simply put but not simple
Faith in Jesus is once saved always saved but you are not always saved when you think you are.. (you is a general statement, not you specifically)
Many people have claimed they are saved by Jesus and Jesus is lord but they are not saved as their actions and what they do in secret do not align with true faith in Christ.
At the last supper, it is written that all asked is it me Lord except for Judas who ask is it me Rabbi
He spent all that time following Jesus but he never submitted to Him
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Fre3dombear said:ShooterTX said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Oldbear83 said:DallasBear9902 said:Oldbear83 said:
Comparing your opinion to Jesus' teachings?
Just a tad arrogant, that.
Not making that comparison at all. Only illustrating that a failure to address an accusation is not a confession (using an example we all agree on).
Granted, both sides are acting a bit heated. Not conducive to a healthy conversation climate, that.
The level of projection here is absolutely INSANE.
Folks, not answering the question is what isn't conducive to a "healthy conversation climate".
It's very strange.
Not long ago, one of these Catholics told me that I should study the story of Fatima, because it would prove to me that the worship of Mary was legit.
Then another one talked about Guadalupe as proof that Mary worship was powerful and so on.
Now they want to ignore both stories?? Very strange.
I've studied both stories, and all it proves is that Catholics are engaged in idolatry. There is no way that the same God who said, "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me," would then send a woman to tell His followers to pray to her, build her a bunch of churches, sing songs of praise to her... no way that Fatima and Guadalupe were sent from heaven. Those messages are in direct opposition to the direct instructions from God through the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles.
As has been stated ad nauseum, theres no worship without sacrifice. Never seen anyone sacrifice anything to Mary
Ive been to many a sunday mega church, Bible church as they call it, etc. never seen a sacrifice at any of those either. Ever.
So, so wrong.
When John bowed down to the angel at the end of Revelation, the angel reprimanded him for doing so, saying it was WORSHIP (Revelation 22:9). John was not sacrificing anything.
Good point.
This again all goes back to the Catholic heretical idea that we are able to save ourselves through some action on our part, or some "sacrifice," as the case may be. I was in a religious discussion with a Catholic neighbor who is a good friend the other day and he was offended at the thought that he played no role in his salvation. It bruised his ego to think that all of the sacraments he had partaken in were nothing more than filthy rags.
No Catholic believes their acts save themselves. The fundamental ignorance of the universal church on display of Protestant Christians is comical.
LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:LIB,MR BEARS said:LIB,MR BEARS said:
Please explainDear Blessed Mother, Please comfort this girl pic.twitter.com/Rfq80LSiEH
— sparkles (@sparklesdollyku) March 26, 2026
Is it dishonest that none of our Catholic friends have replied to my request to explain this?
It's as though this post is a homeless guy at an intersection and everyone's afraid to make eye contact…. except a couple guys shouting "hey, you're homeless".
So, catholic posters, Im tapping on your windshield. I know you see me. Please respond with an explanation.
It's not a homeless guy at an intersection. It's somebody pouring cyanide into people's drinks at a restaurant, and even labeling the cups "POISON" - yet there are still people picking them up and drinking. And there are only a few of us willing to yell "Hey, don't drink that, that's poison!"
And then there are a few here saying "well, somewhere else there is poison being poured into other people's drinks too" as if it's even pertinent to the danger at hand.
That's the way you see it.
I'm trying to have a dialogue you're, by your own admission are yelling at people.
Yes, yelling is often required to those who's hearing is dulled.
You have the "dialogue" you want. I just don't see the utility or even the relevance of your "whataboutism" regarding protestant follies here and there that have nothing to do with me or others, in a thread about Marian "veneration", i.e. idolatry.
I've stated that I think we all have somethings wrong. But, there are some VERY clear things in scripture. To borrow from Alistair Begg, "the plain things are the main things and, the main things are the plain things."
I believe those clear things should be dogma and we should be dogmatic on them. On things that are somewhat vague I don't want to be dogmatic on them and I certainly don't want to hold someone to my dogma.
I'm a Protestant who has been married to a Catholic for nearly 40 years. There is a reason that I've not converted to Catholicism.
If you think dialogue is "whataboutism", I'm sorry.
I can only ask you a question.
After speaking (yelling) what you see as the truth, do you believe anyone will be converted by more yelling?
Plant and water all you can. But, keep in mind, it is God that gives the increase. I don't think more yelling is going to move Him any faster.
What is not a "main thing" about what I'm adressing? If you don't see the Roman Catholic church's authority having a hold over their people into believing a false gospel as well as towards heresy and idolatry as a "main thing" that has eternal consequences, then that leaves me to wonder.
I'm really not understanding the point of your "dialogue" - since there are crazy, unbiblical protestant churches out there..... DON'T call out the errors of the Roman Catholic church... in a thread about that topic?? Because that would be "yelling", right?
And remember, I WAS THE ONE simply asking a question. But somehow, when I do it, it's unproductive "yelling", but when you do it, it's "dialogue". Your perception here is unbalanced an unimpartial, and now I know why - you're married to a Catholic, so you're treating it with kid gloves as you're accustomed to, no doubt, in family gatherings. You might even be offended for their sake by what I'm saying. Understandable, but your bias and whataboutism isn't really doing anything to move the needle here. How does showing crazy protestants jumping on the pulpit show Roman Catholics their errors and get them to repent?
I'm not really here to convert people. If it somehow happens, then to God be all the glory. All I'm aiming to do, is to biblically, factually, historically, and logically argue for the truth, and to show others that they're position is NOT defendable in like manner. What they do with that is up to them. And yes, I think I've been successful at that. If you disagree, you are more than welcome to argue against anything I've said.
You can try your "kid glove" approach if that's what you think is best. But I think that people with deeply rooted beliefs like Roman Catholics must have their beliefs uprooted before any seed planted and watered will be able to grow.
I didn't say whether or not your point is a main thing or not. I stated my position and asked you to consider whether your yelling is beneficial.
You come across as someone that would rather win an argument than win a soul.
I'm a nobody with little education. It's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
Oldbear83 said:
When someone needs a Pope for an intercessor when he could have Christ, well ...
LIB,MR BEARS said:Oldbear83 said:
When someone needs a Pope for an intercessor when he could have Christ, well ...
In Matthew 27:51, why was the veil torn? Why was it torn from top to bottom?
We are reaching a critical mass of people realizing that “justified by faith alone” is not in the Bible.
— Dr Taylor Marshall™️ (@TaylorRMarshall) March 28, 2026
The internet is allowing people to hear beyond their Protestant pastors.
This is one reason why so many adults are converting to Catholicism this year.
