President Trump announces military strikes on Iran: Operation Epic Fury

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D. C. Bear
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The_barBEARian said:

Many Americans do not want the enemy Israeli regime having nuclear weapons either that they have used to blackmail our country since the Yom Kippur war.

When are we going to bomb Israel until they dismantle their nuclear program?


Right after we bomb the UK and France.
william
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- UF

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

D!

Go Bears!!
pro ecclesia, pro javelina
Frank Galvin
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:



I don't think this part has been talked about enough. The rescued WSO was a Full Colonel. His next rank is General. The dude has some classified information in his head.

Can you imagine what he would have gone through had he been captured? Can you imagine the win for Iran, China and Russia had he been captured?

I think it is safe to say that, at a minimum, China would have participated in his interrogation. Can you imagine the issues that would have arisen between the US and China.

The rescue is huge on its own but even more so because of what it could have become had it failed.

Which also demonstrates the risk we are taking beyond disruption of the economy.
The_barBEARian
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D. C. Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

Many Americans do not want the enemy Israeli regime having nuclear weapons either that they have used to blackmail our country since the Yom Kippur war.

When are we going to bomb Israel until they dismantle their nuclear program?


Right after we bomb the UK and France.


The UK and France probably shouldnt have them either with the demographic replacement going on there... but I dont consider them enemies of America like I do with Israel.
LIB,MR BEARS
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The_barBEARian said:

D. C. Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

Many Americans do not want the enemy Israeli regime having nuclear weapons either that they have used to blackmail our country since the Yom Kippur war.

When are we going to bomb Israel until they dismantle their nuclear program?


Right after we bomb the UK and France.


The UK and France probably shouldnt have them either with the demographic replacement going on there... but I dont consider them enemies of America like I do with Israel.


Are you cool with blacks in our military? They seem to be an enemy of yours.

Now Hegseth has given them permission to be armed on military bases. He just put guns in the hands of a bunch a darkies.

When are you going to get off your azz and do your part to save white Americans?

All talk klansman (you've earned the little 'k')
D. C. Bear
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The_barBEARian said:

D. C. Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

Many Americans do not want the enemy Israeli regime having nuclear weapons either that they have used to blackmail our country since the Yom Kippur war.

When are we going to bomb Israel until they dismantle their nuclear program?


Right after we bomb the UK and France.


The UK and France probably shouldnt have them either with the demographic replacement going on there... but I dont consider them enemies of America like I do with Israel.


You consider Israel to be an enemy of America, but they sure don't do a good job of showing it.

Do you consider Iran to be an enemy of America?
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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D. C. Bear said:

Sam Lowry said:

When you see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, understand that the blame is squarely on your head and those of your fellow neocons. It was you who used the nuclear issue as a pretext for imperial aggression and, in the process, destroyed a nonproliferation framework that took a generation to build. You people are a menace to every life on the planet.


"Imperial aggression" is an interesting term. You sound like a Soviet propagandist.

When I see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, I see nations acting in what they see as their own best interests. North Korea. India. Pakistan. Israel. South Africa*

*The only nation that dismantled its own nuclear weapons program.

* - Don't forget about Ukraine. The fact that they got rid of their nukes is one of the main reasons they're in the mess they are now.
Call it a tax, the people are outraged! Call it a tariff, the people get out their checkbooks and wave their American flags!!!
The_barBEARian
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

The_barBEARian said:

D. C. Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

Many Americans do not want the enemy Israeli regime having nuclear weapons either that they have used to blackmail our country since the Yom Kippur war.

When are we going to bomb Israel until they dismantle their nuclear program?


Right after we bomb the UK and France.


The UK and France probably shouldnt have them either with the demographic replacement going on there... but I dont consider them enemies of America like I do with Israel.


Are you cool with blacks in our military? They seem to be an enemy of yours.

Now Hegseth has given them permission to be armed on military bases. He just put guns in the hands of a bunch a darkies.

When are you going to get off your azz and do your part to save white Americans?

All talk klansman (you've earned the little 'k')


What is the correlation between Israel and blacks?

Israeli chemically infertilizes black Ethiopians.

Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent

The_barBEARian
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D. C. Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

D. C. Bear said:

The_barBEARian said:

Many Americans do not want the enemy Israeli regime having nuclear weapons either that they have used to blackmail our country since the Yom Kippur war.

When are we going to bomb Israel until they dismantle their nuclear program?


Right after we bomb the UK and France.


The UK and France probably shouldnt have them either with the demographic replacement going on there... but I dont consider them enemies of America like I do with Israel.


You consider Israel to be an enemy of America, but they sure don't do a good job of showing it.

Do you consider Iran to be an enemy of America?


Iranians hate us because we are slaves to the Israelis and they control our government.

If we can do business with the Saudis, who are the largest exporters of Islamic terrorism in the West, we can do business with the Iranians.
fubar
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Sometimes I miss ol' BUmaruski ....
Gunter gleiben glauchen globen
Porteroso
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

D. C. Bear said:

Sam Lowry said:

When you see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, understand that the blame is squarely on your head and those of your fellow neocons. It was you who used the nuclear issue as a pretext for imperial aggression and, in the process, destroyed a nonproliferation framework that took a generation to build. You people are a menace to every life on the planet.


"Imperial aggression" is an interesting term. You sound like a Soviet propagandist.

When I see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, I see nations acting in what they see as their own best interests. North Korea. India. Pakistan. Israel. South Africa*

*The only nation that dismantled its own nuclear weapons program.

* - Don't forget about Ukraine. The fact that they got rid of their nukes is one of the main reasons they're in the mess they are now.

Russia actually signed the same pact we did, along with the UK, when Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, which said we would protect them. Russian aggression is the real imperial aggression going on.

We are making our share of mistakes in the Middle East, clearly driven by the basic theory that chaos in that region is best for us. But many of these decisions are probably not simply "right" or "wrong," our leaders are having to try to figure out what the best of bad options is.

The fact is, we do have to rely upon Israeli intelligence to know whether the Iranians have continued enriching uranium past 60%, or whether they are even there...

And clearly, the countries who have the most at stake regarding Iran, won't do squat. It's a conundrum. At some point we must remove their nuclear capability. If we accomplish that, all prior sins will be forgiven. A bombed bridge suddenly irrelevant. But how do we justify sacrificing so many Americans?
The_barBEARian
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Porteroso said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

D. C. Bear said:

Sam Lowry said:

When you see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, understand that the blame is squarely on your head and those of your fellow neocons. It was you who used the nuclear issue as a pretext for imperial aggression and, in the process, destroyed a nonproliferation framework that took a generation to build. You people are a menace to every life on the planet.


"Imperial aggression" is an interesting term. You sound like a Soviet propagandist.

When I see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, I see nations acting in what they see as their own best interests. North Korea. India. Pakistan. Israel. South Africa*

*The only nation that dismantled its own nuclear weapons program.

* - Don't forget about Ukraine. The fact that they got rid of their nukes is one of the main reasons they're in the mess they are now.

Russia actually signed the same pact we did, along with the UK, when Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, which said we would protect them. Russian aggression is the real imperial aggression going on.

We are making our share of mistakes in the Middle East, clearly driven by the basic theory that chaos in that region is best for us. But many of these decisions are probably not simply "right" or "wrong," our leaders are having to try to figure out what the best of bad options is.

The fact is, we do have to rely upon Israeli intelligence to know whether the Iranians have continued enriching uranium past 60%, or whether they are even there...

And clearly, the countries who have the most at stake regarding Iran, won't do squat. It's a conundrum. At some point we must remove their nuclear capability. If we accomplish that, all prior sins will be forgiven. A bombed bridge suddenly irrelevant. But how do we justify sacrificing so many Americans?


In no way, shape, or form does chaos in the region benefit America.

It benefits the Greater Israel project.

The Israelis are draining America to expand their empire and become a global superpower... their only obstacle is the Boomer support they need in America is about a decade away from falling off a demographic cliff and going extinct... Most of the guys in this thread cheering on this war wont be around 10 years from now.
cowboycwr
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Porteroso said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.

They rarely attacked outside the Middle East, Africa, Southern Europe, throughout history. A few major excursions, sure.

LOL. Sure when you expand from the Middle east to INCLUDE the regions they expand out to and attack then of course it is limited to few areas they attack outside of. But that was not the original claim. The original claim is that when they stop killing each other they expand outside of the Middle East.
cowboycwr
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FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?
Realitybites
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:



I don't think this part has been talked about enough. The rescued WSO was a Full Colonel. His next rank is General. The dude has some classified information in his head.

Can you imagine what he would have gone through had he been captured? Can you imagine the win for Iran, China and Russia had he been captured?

I think it is safe to say that, at a minimum, China would have participated in his interrogation. Can you imagine the issues that would have arisen between the US and China.

The rescue is huge on its own but even more so because of what it could have become had it failed.


No idea what classified information he knew or didn't know, but a Colonel on track for promotion to General isn't in an F-15 behind enemy lines. He had achieved his terminal rank.
Realitybites
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"Gulf funds are reconsidering American investments, including Paramount-Warner merger: Gulf sovereign wealth funds are reportedly reviewing their American investments as the Iran war continues to strain the region's finances, Ryan Grim reports in his latest. One particular deal, $111 billion Paramount SkydanceWarner Brothers Discovery merger, is imperiled by this development, as $24 billion of that total came from the Gulf. The Qatar Investment Authority is set to reconvene within the week to reassess its role in the merger, with industry sources saying widespread divestment on the part of the Gulf is now a mathematical inevitability if the war continues."

Just a heads up for investors.
FLBear5630
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cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?

No, who said that? I want a list. Similar to Lockerbee 103, 9/11 and the others. Nothing complicated, just what we connect to Iran. We know that Hamas has killed 46 on October 7, supporting Israel against Hamas no issues.

We are spending Billions and are about to go after the life support for the population, power and desalinization. Reminding us of what Iran did to deserve this does not seem out of bounds. Beyond the fund terror... That is abstract, tie it to real events that Iran did.
LIB,MR BEARS
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fubar said:

Sometimes I miss ol' BUmaruski ....


He was a victim of demographic replacement by barBEARian

As a result, barBEARian must find a way to hate himself.
LIB,MR BEARS
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Realitybites said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:



I don't think this part has been talked about enough. The rescued WSO was a Full Colonel. His next rank is General. The dude has some classified information in his head.

Can you imagine what he would have gone through had he been captured? Can you imagine the win for Iran, China and Russia had he been captured?

I think it is safe to say that, at a minimum, China would have participated in his interrogation. Can you imagine the issues that would have arisen between the US and China.

The rescue is huge on its own but even more so because of what it could have become had it failed.


No idea what classified information he knew or didn't know, but a Colonel on track for promotion to General isn't in an F-15 behind enemy lines. He had achieved his terminal rank.

Whether he had peaked or not isn't the point I'm making.

Any thoughts on my point of what could have been for Iran, China and maybe Russia?
cowboycwr
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FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?

No, who said that? I want a list. Similar to Lockerbee 103, 9/11 and the others. Nothing complicated, just what we connect to Iran. We know that Hamas has killed 46 on October 7, supporting Israel against Hamas no issues.

We are spending Billions and are about to go after the life support for the population, power and desalinization. Reminding us of what Iran did to deserve this does not seem out of bounds. Beyond the fund terror... That is abstract, tie it to real events that Iran did.

I mean a simple Google search will give you that list but you could start with:

1983 Beirut and then end with October 7 and just fill in all the events in between.
cowboycwr
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Realitybites said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:



I don't think this part has been talked about enough. The rescued WSO was a Full Colonel. His next rank is General. The dude has some classified information in his head.

Can you imagine what he would have gone through had he been captured? Can you imagine the win for Iran, China and Russia had he been captured?

I think it is safe to say that, at a minimum, China would have participated in his interrogation. Can you imagine the issues that would have arisen between the US and China.

The rescue is huge on its own but even more so because of what it could have become had it failed.


No idea what classified information he knew or didn't know, but a Colonel on track for promotion to General isn't in an F-15 behind enemy lines. He had achieved his terminal rank.

Agreed. He either was trying to get some combat experience to boost his chances at getting that star in hopes of not getting retired next time of promotions.

As to what classified information he had.... he probably had the same amount that any other pilot has with the exception of pilots in the stealth aircraft (B2, F22 & 35).

cowboycwr
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

fubar said:

Sometimes I miss ol' BUmaruski ....


He was a victim of demographic replacement by barBEARian

As a result, barBEARian must find a way to hate himself.

wait..... is Barbearian Bum's son????? The ages seem about right.......


I sometimes wonder what happened to Bum..... if he succumbed to his fears, wised up or is just hiding out in a bunker somewhere.

Sort of like Statman.... what happened to him?
D. C. Bear
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

D. C. Bear said:

Sam Lowry said:

When you see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, understand that the blame is squarely on your head and those of your fellow neocons. It was you who used the nuclear issue as a pretext for imperial aggression and, in the process, destroyed a nonproliferation framework that took a generation to build. You people are a menace to every life on the planet.


"Imperial aggression" is an interesting term. You sound like a Soviet propagandist.

When I see nuclear weapons proliferating around the world, I see nations acting in what they see as their own best interests. North Korea. India. Pakistan. Israel. South Africa*

*The only nation that dismantled its own nuclear weapons program.

* - Don't forget about Ukraine. The fact that they got rid of their nukes is one of the main reasons they're in the mess they are now.


Yes, I thought of them, too. Giving their nukes up in exchange for security guarantees did not end well. Not sure if there were other Soviet republics that did the same.
FLBear5630
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cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?

No, who said that? I want a list. Similar to Lockerbee 103, 9/11 and the others. Nothing complicated, just what we connect to Iran. We know that Hamas has killed 46 on October 7, supporting Israel against Hamas no issues.

We are spending Billions and are about to go after the life support for the population, power and desalinization. Reminding us of what Iran did to deserve this does not seem out of bounds. Beyond the fund terror... That is abstract, tie it to real events that Iran did.

I mean a simple Google search will give you that list but you could start with:

1983 Beirut and then end with October 7 and just fill in all the events in between.

Here is the problem I see alot of Palestinians, Houthi's, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Not a lot or really any Iran.

So, if we bomb Iran to the stoneage, they won't just get their supplies elsewhere? NK, Pakistan, Russia, China, or any other of their proxies? Hezbollah, Houthi's and Hamas are going to cease to be a problem?
EatMoreSalmon
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FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?

No, who said that? I want a list. Similar to Lockerbee 103, 9/11 and the others. Nothing complicated, just what we connect to Iran. We know that Hamas has killed 46 on October 7, supporting Israel against Hamas no issues.

We are spending Billions and are about to go after the life support for the population, power and desalinization. Reminding us of what Iran did to deserve this does not seem out of bounds. Beyond the fund terror... That is abstract, tie it to real events that Iran did.

I mean a simple Google search will give you that list but you could start with:

1983 Beirut and then end with October 7 and just fill in all the events in between.

Here is the problem I see alot of Palestinians, Houthi's, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Not a lot or really any Iran.

So, if we bomb Iran to the stoneage, they won't just get their supplies elsewhere? NK, Pakistan, Russia, China, or any other of their proxies? Hezbollah, Houthi's and Hamas are going to cease to be a problem?

Hezbollah has been an arm of Iron for quite a long time. So, yes.
They have been making inroads into South America and were in Venezuela.
Realitybites
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The capture of any American military officer is bad, and the higher the rank, the worse it is from a national security perspective. That having been said, I am not sure that the Iranians would have treated him like the NVA. They have been exceptionally careful in their escalation and their PR campaign is very well crafted.

" Trump's decision to humiliate MBS publicly has thrown a wrench into the relationship with Saudi Arabia. At a Saudi-backed investment conference, Trump riffed on his relationship with the crown prince. "A short time ago we were together and he looked at me and he said, 'You know, one year ago you were a dead country. Now, you're the hottest country anywhere in the world," Trump said. "He didn't think this was going to happen. He didn't think he'd be kissing my ass, he really didn't. He thought it'd be just another American president that was a loser with a country that was going downhill, but now he has to be nice to me. You tell him he better be nice to me, he's gotta be."

At the same conference, Saudi's wealth fund announced a 15% cut in capital investment.

Trump ally Steve Bannon piled on. "Maybe we can get a couple or three of those princes in uniform," he said on his podcast, The War Room. "Got any kids in special forces? Let's line up those royal families and see how big they're talking."

This is not how you deal with honor based cultures.
cowboycwr
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FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?

No, who said that? I want a list. Similar to Lockerbee 103, 9/11 and the others. Nothing complicated, just what we connect to Iran. We know that Hamas has killed 46 on October 7, supporting Israel against Hamas no issues.

We are spending Billions and are about to go after the life support for the population, power and desalinization. Reminding us of what Iran did to deserve this does not seem out of bounds. Beyond the fund terror... That is abstract, tie it to real events that Iran did.

I mean a simple Google search will give you that list but you could start with:

1983 Beirut and then end with October 7 and just fill in all the events in between.

Here is the problem I see alot of Palestinians, Houthi's, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Not a lot or really any Iran.

So, if we bomb Iran to the stoneage, they won't just get their supplies elsewhere? NK, Pakistan, Russia, China, or any other of their proxies? Hezbollah, Houthi's and Hamas are going to cease to be a problem?

When you take out the State that has been training and funding those organizations they will take a huge hit until they can find another sponsor or supporter.

Then it can make going after those terror groups easier as they are now isolated.
FLBear5630
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EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

cowboycwr said:

FLBear5630 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Porteroso said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

Correct! We need to get back to ( insert peaceful time in ME here).

Porteroso, when was that time?

False question. It's one thing for the Middle Easterners to want to war with their neighbors. It's another for us to keep killing so many of them, or overthrowing their governments, that they want to go half a world away to blow themselves up amongst Americans.

I'm ok with crippling their missile program, or removing their nuclear material from the equation. What is bad, is that this was so poorly thought through that we had to beg allies to join our war, and now that they haven't, we have decided that leaving, having accomplished very little in the grand scheme of things, while they control the Strait of Hormuz and might start taxing it, or stay a bit longer and bomb civilian infrastructure, are our 2 options.

It's such an insane ****show, and we might have to just reload and do it again in 10 years, which should be entirely unacceptable. They are like 1 good physicist away from creating nuclear weapons, and we apparently went to war with them, not to remove that threat, but simply to close and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

All these posts about "dealing with the threat that is Iran...." we haven't gotten close, and it looks like we won't for some time. People reveling in mass destruction and death just irk me, whether they are terrorists or whiterock.

When did ME countries not attack outside of the ME? Maybe before the Egyptian civilization?

The Middle East is where the most lucrative trade routes have been for thousands of years.


Just curious what Iranian attacks have occurred on the US outside the ME? Maybe I missed something. Israel, definitely. US proper? Saudii they attacked us 9/11. Iran?

So you are willing to ignore all the terror attacks against US citizens just because it didn't happen in the US?

No, who said that? I want a list. Similar to Lockerbee 103, 9/11 and the others. Nothing complicated, just what we connect to Iran. We know that Hamas has killed 46 on October 7, supporting Israel against Hamas no issues.

We are spending Billions and are about to go after the life support for the population, power and desalinization. Reminding us of what Iran did to deserve this does not seem out of bounds. Beyond the fund terror... That is abstract, tie it to real events that Iran did.

I mean a simple Google search will give you that list but you could start with:

1983 Beirut and then end with October 7 and just fill in all the events in between.

Here is the problem I see alot of Palestinians, Houthi's, Hezbollah, and Hamas. Not a lot or really any Iran.

So, if we bomb Iran to the stoneage, they won't just get their supplies elsewhere? NK, Pakistan, Russia, China, or any other of their proxies? Hezbollah, Houthi's and Hamas are going to cease to be a problem?

Hezbollah has been an arm of Iron for quite a long time. So, yes.
They have been making inroads into South America and were in Venezuela.

No issues fight Hezbollah. The problem I have with the Iran strategy is that we are not destroying the ones actually pulling the trigger. Iran is gone, they will get their weapons somewhere else.

Yeah, I keep hearing that "arm of". "proxy". You keep forgetting those people want to pull the trigger, they are just getting supplies from Iran.

Oldbear83
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Realitybites said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:



I don't think this part has been talked about enough. The rescued WSO was a Full Colonel. His next rank is General. The dude has some classified information in his head.

Can you imagine what he would have gone through had he been captured? Can you imagine the win for Iran, China and Russia had he been captured?

I think it is safe to say that, at a minimum, China would have participated in his interrogation. Can you imagine the issues that would have arisen between the US and China.

The rescue is huge on its own but even more so because of what it could have become had it failed.


No idea what classified information he knew or didn't know, but a Colonel on track for promotion to General isn't in an F-15 behind enemy lines. He had achieved his terminal rank.

Agreed. The Air Force has a long history addressing concerns about captured pilots, and learned a lot from the Korean and Vietnam wars. Also, it's not as if there is just one Big Book of Classified Information that officers get according to their rank. Information is provided according to what the person does and needs to do their job. I have a friend who was an Air Force mechanic, who worked on the Aurora planes back in the day. He had extensive knowledge of the design and parts for the plane, but would not have had much information on other planes. He would have no knowledge of the F-22 or F-35, for example, beyond what he could see in passing, and certainly he would have had no knowledge of the missions any planes flew, much less tactics or strategies involved. He knew a lot about his specific role, but that's it. The WSO on that F-15 would have known his own specifics, but could hardly speak to what his bosses planned or the overall War Plan. It doesn't work that way.

cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oldbear83 said:

Realitybites said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:



I don't think this part has been talked about enough. The rescued WSO was a Full Colonel. His next rank is General. The dude has some classified information in his head.

Can you imagine what he would have gone through had he been captured? Can you imagine the win for Iran, China and Russia had he been captured?

I think it is safe to say that, at a minimum, China would have participated in his interrogation. Can you imagine the issues that would have arisen between the US and China.

The rescue is huge on its own but even more so because of what it could have become had it failed.


No idea what classified information he knew or didn't know, but a Colonel on track for promotion to General isn't in an F-15 behind enemy lines. He had achieved his terminal rank.

Agreed. The Air Force has a long history addressing concerns about captured pilots, and learned a lot from the Korean and Vietnam wars. Also, it's not as if there is just one Big Book of Classified Information that officers get according to their rank. Information is provided according to what the person does and needs to do their job. I have a friend who was an Air Force mechanic, who worked on the Aurora planes back in the day. He had extensive knowledge of the design and parts for the plane, but would not have had much information on other planes. He would have no knowledge of the F-22 or F-35, for example, beyond what he could see in passing, and certainly he would have had no knowledge of the missions any planes flew, much less tactics or strategies involved. He knew a lot about his specific role, but that's it. The WSO on that F-15 would have known his own specifics, but could hardly speak to what his bosses planned or the overall War Plan. It doesn't work that way.



Some good points.

I would also add in that even the job location does automatically equal loads of classified information knowledge. I had a friend who worked at the Pentagon but he worked in some personnel office like HR or some other paper pushing desk job nothing with secret information.
The_barBEARian
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Distract the ******ed Boomers with war in the middle east... meanwhile at home:

Oldbear83
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People keep acting as if public statements reflected private sentiments. That's not true in the Middle East, and that's both bad news and good news for us.

fubar
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There are any number of reasons -- most of them not so good -- as to why a colonel might be flying in a combat area. I am almost certain of one thing: The colonel was not the pilot's "regular" WSO, and that fact means the crew's capabilities were degraded. How much I don't know.

But an O-6 sitting in the WSO seat has more access to classified information that an O-3 sitting in that same seat would have. Without question.

We should all be glad he was rescued.
Gunter gleiben glauchen globen
historian
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FLBear5630 said:

historian said:

Sam Lowry said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

Free Afghanistan, Free Iraq, Free Libya, Free Ukraine, Free Syria (and empower Al Qaeda), Free Venezuela, Free Cuba, Free Iran...it was always BS.

The people of Venezuela, Iran & Cuba disagree with you. They want freedom and are grateful for everything Trump does to help them achieve it.

Short of blowing them up...

Well the US & Israel have blown up many of the tyrannical leaders of Iran leading to expressions of support by the people of Iran, "Thank you Trump!"
historian
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

If you knew anything about the history of Islam you would not demonstrate such ignorance. Ever since Muhammad, Muslims have hated "infidels" and wanted to kill them, meaning us. It's still true today, especially among the more fanatical. Are you aware that Iran has called the US "the Great Satan" since 1979? They hate us because we are not Muslims and as the most powerful country, the greatest obstacle to all their ambitions.

Blaming the US, Israel, or the west in general is merely blaming the victims.
 
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