President Trump announces military strikes on Iran: Operation Epic Fury

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The_barBEARian
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BearFan33 said:

The_barBEARian said:

boognish_bear said:

Doubtful we can get Israel on board with that








Why is Iran worried about Lebanon? Don't they have problems of their own?

The answer is they don't want to lose their terror network there.


Why do Americans care about Israel? Dont they have problems of their own?

The answer is Congress is completely owned by the terror network there.
Redbrickbear
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BearFan33 said:

The_barBEARian said:

boognish_bear said:

Doubtful we can get Israel on board with that








Why is Iran worried about Lebanon? Don't they have problems of their own?

The answer is they don't want to lose their terror network there.


Bingo

Injecting themselves into a country (that was set aside as a safe haven for Arabic speaking Christians by the way) ...and funding a Shia criminal group.

That is pure regional power play and terror support.
FLBear5630
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BearFan33 said:

The_barBEARian said:

boognish_bear said:

Doubtful we can get Israel on board with that








Why is Iran worried about Lebanon? Don't they have problems of their own?

The answer is they don't want to lose their terror network there.

The answer is they can keep going for as long as they want. You really think those terms were serious???? That they think anyone would accept them? It is a F-you to Trump...
FLBear5630
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Well Trump and Bibi have done the impossible, they are making the terrorist look like victims. They are making Iran look like they are trying... Unbelievable.
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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Our friend be crazy

Realitybites
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Well now Trump gets to demonstrate if he is an American president or the wholly owned subsidiary of Israel.

I am seriously starting to wonder if we are at war with the wrong middle eastern country.
303Bear
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Realitybites said:

Well now Trump gets to demonstrate if he is an American president or the wholly owned subsidiary of Israel.

I am seriously starting to wonder if we are at war with the wrong middle eastern country.


There is a reason that support for Israel is at an all time low in the United States. We don't need to go to war with them, but I would love if we stopped supporting them almost uncritically going forward.
Doc Holliday
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Realitybites said:

Well now Trump gets to demonstrate if he is an American president or the wholly owned subsidiary of Israel.

I am seriously starting to wonder if we are at war with the wrong middle eastern country.

The calvingelicals sure do love it
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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whiterock
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Excellent explanation of the game here. Outstanding.

boognish_bear
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whiterock said:

Excellent explanation of the game here. Outstanding.




Hope this is true...although I won't be surprised if like 2 hours from now we hear from Iran that they haven't agreed to this...or they have an alternate understanding of what was agreed too.
Realitybites
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Countries that supply weapons to Iran…So Russia, already boycotted. China, where the majority of our imported consumer goods and medicines come from. The EU as well. That won't have any effect on inflation.

I believe in tariffs, but Trump's problem is that he has implemented them with no workable mechanism to onshore production. Everything still comes from slave labor markets. For tariffs to be workable they have to be methodically thought through and applied. Throwing stuff against a wall to see what sticks is not the way to do it.

This is I think a pretty decent analysis of Trump's psychology.

https://open.substack.com/pub/simplicius76/p/from-dire-straits-to-done-deal-triumphant?r=6d3uc6&utm_medium=ios
boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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ATL Bear
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historian said:

How do you build a constructive relationship with someone who wants to kill you and everyone you know? It's impossible.
The same way we've built relationships with others who wanted to kill us.
Oldbear83
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FLBear just continues to prove why I rebuke him so much. This is his post about me from this morning, by point and with my response:


"Juse right of William Buckley and two seats left of Steven Miller... : )"

Just including that because FLBear posted it. No particular response needed or offered.

But here's where FLBear and the rail part ways:

"You have defended ICE shooting protestors in the street, the military blowing up speed boats with Hellfire missiles because they fit a profile and taking Greenland because we want it , that is pretty far right."

The amount of dishonesty here is off the scale. By individual claim, then:


"You have defended ICE shooting protestors in the street"

That is a lie as presented. I have supported ICE officers defending themselves from persons who deliberately interfered with their operations and put the agents' lives at risk. Suddenly driving cars at agents and carrying firearms into a planned interaction with federal agents is in no universe the same thing as 'protesting', and FLBear knows this.

"the military blowing up speed boats with Hellfire missiles because they fit a profile"

Again, FLBear wants everyone to forget the context. Last I checked, every boat destroyed actually was crewed by armed narco gangs. The only sane take from FLBear's claim is that he wants us to protect the narco gangs. You'd have to ask him why.

"and taking Greenland because we want it , that is pretty far right."

This one is unique, because to the best of my mind I never once said we should seize Greenland. Would not be the first time FLBear has accused me to supporting something no one but the voices in his head actually said.

Moving on to the rest of his rant, we see the following:

"To be fair, I think the Govt forgiving student debt in programs is a good thing, being in NATO is worth it and we need a type of Obamacare/ACA. So that puts me just right of Prisker and left of pretty much this Board."

FLBear is completely wrong on government paying off private debt, even student loans. Obamacare/ACA was raping the American patient en masse for decades, so how any person with a conscience could support it is evidence of DNC contributions. Now as for NATO, I see value in the organization, but only if every nation pays the same amount and every nation has the same rights as the other member nations. But of course. Europe in recent years is far from the Europe whose ass we saved more than once.


"i agree with Eisenhower, the Government should be fiscally responsible and help people's lives be better if it could. Defense should not come at the expense of people."

FLBear has, on the evidence, nothing at all in common with Dwight Eisenhower. Ike, for one thing, would be quick to remind FLBear that the responsibility for Defense is actually in the Constitution, as opposed to the other garbage in his post he wants us to pay for.

For all practical purposes, this conclusively proves FLBear is a Democrat in mind and soul.
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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Great explanation of why the isolationists are so wrong about Iran. They are not angry about colonialism or being oppressed by foreign powers. They have whacko delusions of grandeur.

whiterock
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Realitybites said:

Well now Trump gets to demonstrate if he is an American president or the wholly owned subsidiary of Israel.

I am seriously starting to wonder if we are at war with the wrong middle eastern country.

Why on earth should we exempt an Iranian proxy from accountability?
303Bear
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boognish_bear said:



But did he ask whether they are concerned about whether they will wreck themselves?
whiterock
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FLBear5630 said:

Well Trump and Bibi have done the impossible, they are making the terrorist look like victims. They are making Iran look like they are trying... Unbelievable.

LOL no, they're not. But even if that were so, why would it matter? The goal is not to compete with them on who has the better PR image. The goal is to destroy their ability to threaten us. And we have severely diminished their ability to do that.


boognish_bear
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303Bear said:

boognish_bear said:



But did he ask whether they are concerned about whether they will wreck themselves?


EatMoreSalmon
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303Bear said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

FLBear5630 said:

william said:

Oldbear83 said:

Sam Lowry said:

Oldbear83 said:

Sam Lowry said:

ATL Bear said:

Sam Lowry said:

ATL Bear said:

Frank Galvin said:

ATL Bear said:

FLBear5630 said:

ATL Bear said:

Wangchung said:

Redbrickbear said:








This can't be true, I have it on good authority from the nevertrumpers in here that Trump just went into this with zero planning while ignoring all advice except Israel's commands!

I'm more concerned the people advising him didn't really have a plan, particularly Hegseth.


BINGO! This is a strategic and policy disaster, thank god our military is tactically sound.

I wouldn't label this a disaster. At least not yet. There is truth and necessity that Iran needed to be dealt with harshly. The first bombing was sound. This second escalation may have been necessary, maybe not. I do think resetting the deterrence measure with Iran will pay dividends against terrorism against the U.S. and nuclear weapon pursuits. Leave the regime change on the side of the road and try to build a more constructive relationship with another Islamist "bad guy".


Maybe we should negotiate a deal with the regime that would allow us to verify what they are doing either their uranium.

It didn't matter for 30 years. Maybe they'll play along this time.

So what stopped them from building a bomb for 30 years? Considering that they were determined to do so and the agreements were so ineffective?

Stuxnet, Israeli execution of scientists, and a whole host of intel ops. Oh yes, and several strategic bombings and explosions along the way. The agreements definitely didn't stop them from building facilities and enriching uranium.

Those were relatively minor setbacks in a 30-year time frame. And the NPT was supposed to support a peaceful nuclear program, not put a stop to it. That misapprehension has plagued our discourse from the beginning.

A peaceful nuclear program needs no enrichment beyond 5%, tops.

It was never a 'peaceful' nuclear program, it was always a nuclear weapons program.

Not necessarily true, and patently false, respectively.

Absolutely true. Please name me the peaceful nuclear program which needs 60%+ enriched uranium.

Seriously Sam, this is more than slightly obvious.



Baghdad Ma'am...........

- el UF

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

D!

Go Bears!!

Viva il Donaldo!!!

Suelten los perros economicas, amigos!!!!


Serious question, since 1945 when we saw what nukes could do. Has ANY Nation used a nuclear bomb for anything but deterrence? Even North Korea who is bat **** crazy hasn't been that stupid. Pakistan hasn't even nuked India. The Soviet Union when they fell apart, didn't use nukes. Israel when attacked, didn't use nukes.

Don't go all indignant and say you love Mullahs or some other wild ass comment. Or that we even think Iran should have it. You opened the door, you said name one. Obviously they don't, but then the next question what is the actual risk of use? If you want to have a real discussion, let's have one.



Where do those North Korean terror cells operate again? NK is not Iran. They want SK and don't want their own obliteration. Not close to Iran except that they're a dictatorship.
NK also doesn't have an apocalyptic religious belief ruling the land.

While NK does not sponsor or overtly back selected groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., they are peltry active in spying, cyber crime and other international shenanigans, especially IP theft.

At a prior job we had multiple companies in the portfolio hacked by groups backed by the NK government.


They are helping their neighbor. We are fortunate they have had a short leash.
Redbrickbear
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boognish_bear said:




Time for Saudi Arabia to upgrade the city of Yanbu port and build a lot more pipeline capacity
boognish_bear
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Frank Galvin
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I almost sympathize for Vance here. It was a war he warned against and now he has to defend it, while watching his 2028 hopes diminish. That said, what utter BS. Why in the world would Iran think a "cease fire" meant "not a complete cease fire, lets keep fighting elsewhere."? If it was an "honest misunderstanding" it is because Witkoff and Kushner screwed it up. Clown show.
boognish_bear
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Frank Galvin
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boognish_bear said:



My God can kick your God's butt!
whiterock
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Mitch Blood Green said:

whiterock said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

whiterock said:

FLBear5630 said:

whiterock said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

historian said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:




Trump is so dumb. We are ensuring the next generation of terrorists truly hates America.

I cannot believe the cheerleaders here for mass murder and destruction.

How idiotic!
Has there ever been a generation of terrorists that did not hate America???
If you are not cheering on the US then you are a cheerleader for the Iranian regime, terrorists who have been bass murdering people for 47 years. In January of this year they slaughtered up to 45k of their own people for peacefully protesting against their tyranny.

People on the Left who try to take the moral high ground always end up looking like fools.

To answer the question, yes there have been many generation of Iranians that didn't hate America, and were not terrorists. With each new generation of Middle Easterners, we renew their hatred of America since the 70s. It doesn't have to be that way.

I think we are plenty willing to sacrifice Americans simply because it keeps the war machine going. Simple as that.

What is idiotic is your post which assumes there will always be terrorists in the Middle East that want to kill Americans.

If you knew anything about the history of Islam you would not demonstrate such ignorance. Ever since Muhammad, Muslims have hated "infidels" and wanted to kill them, meaning us. It's still true today, especially among the more fanatical. Are you aware that Iran has called the US "the Great Satan" since 1979? They hate us because we are not Muslims and as the most powerful country, the greatest obstacle to all their ambitions.

Blaming the US, Israel, or the west in general is merely blaming the victims.

My god. Iranians did not particularly hate America until the 70s. We helped make it that way. It doesn't have to stay that way. Pick up a book.

The Iranian people mostly loved/love us. The Iranian islamists hated us all the way back to our beginning. Unfortunately, the Islamists have run the country for the last 47 years, so......




I am sure blowing up their schools, infrastructure and utilities will make them love us.

Don't care whether they love us or not. Want the damned enriched uranium and will burn down the whole country to get it (because they want the damned uranium to burn down our whole country).


That's what you think? It appears to me that lately, enriched uranium is survival. Ukraine gave up their Nukes. Libya? Iraq?

It's the only way to stop from being invaded.

you have it backwards. holding onto the enriched uranium is destroying the regime. They give it up, the pressure goes away. they survive. the longer they hold on to it, the more things they need get blown up....the more of their leadership gets blown up. That enriched uranium is the proximate cause of their current distress.

we don't need to care about Iran.
we only care about Iran because they chant "death to America" and try to build nuclear weapons.
we only care about Iran because they build long-range ballistic missiles to deliver those weapons far beyond their borders.

That's not true. They gave it up in 2015. All indications were that they were cooperating and working within the agreed-upon framework.
Complete fantasy. They demonstrated they have ballistic missiles capable of striking all of Europe, and admitted to us that they have enough enriched uranium to build a dozen nuclear weapons within a few weeks.

Except, we didn't get Bibi's approval. Bibi has been pushing for this war since 1996, and he will destroy his country, too. I hate that for Israel.
If you're going to take this line of reasoning, technically we ignored Bibi all the way down the line and didn't act until the Gulf Arab states got on board with taking out the Iranian nukes. So how can we be an Israeli puppet? Again, we see the fallacy that because Bibi agrees with every POTUS since 1980 who has said Iran will not be allowed to have nuclear weapons, Bibi is our master. Shouldn't we thank him for trying to get us to act before Iran got so close?

At some point, you can't attack the Lebanese.
Israel isn't attacking "the Lebanese." It's attacking Hizballah.
Attack the Palestinians,
They did. You complained about that, too.
Ignore crimes in the West Bank, work to destroy international agreements you don't like, then convince the world that THEY are the terrorist.
Israel does ignore a lot of Palestinian crimes in the West bank.
Israel has destroyed no international agreements of others.
Iran is on our "State Sponsor of Terrorism" list.
Iranian proxies Hizballah, Hamas, and the Houthis are all designated terror groups.
Thank you Israel for pounding them into dust.
I hope the people of Israel get regime change. There's a path to peace. It just got longer and more painful.
Just the opposite. We took out Iran, its client states Syria and Venezuela, and all three of its major terrorist group proxies. The road to peace just got a lot easier to travel.

You have quite a serious case of recto-cranial inversion.

Israel is not a problem for us in the least. They are a highly capable ally, in some cases moreso than us.
Iran, on the other hand......a jihadist Twelver regime seeking, and nearly obtaining the means to convert the whole world to islam via the threat of nuclear weapons.
boognish_bear
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D. C. Bear
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Frank Galvin said:

I almost sympathize for Vance here. It was a war he warned against and now he has to defend it, while watching his 2028 hopes diminish. That said, what utter BS. Why in the world would Iran think a "cease fire" meant "not a complete cease fire, lets keep fighting elsewhere."? If it was an "honest misunderstanding" it is because Witkoff and Kushner screwed it up. Clown show.


Given that Iran has been the no-so-hidden hand behind Hezbollah and Hamas, one could understand why they would expect a cease fire to apply there as well.
FLBear5630
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Oldbear83 said:

FLBear just continues to prove why I rebuke him so much. This is his post about me from this morning, by point and with my response:


"Juse right of William Buckley and two seats left of Steven Miller... : )"

Just including that because FLBear posted it. No particular response needed or offered.

But here's where FLBear and the rail part ways:

"You have defended ICE shooting protestors in the street, the military blowing up speed boats with Hellfire missiles because they fit a profile and taking Greenland because we want it , that is pretty far right."

The amount of dishonesty here is off the scale. By individual claim, then:


"You have defended ICE shooting protestors in the street"

That is a lie as presented. I have supported ICE officers defending themselves from persons who deliberately interfered with their operations and put the agents' lives at risk. Suddenly driving cars at agents and carrying firearms into a planned interaction with federal agents is in no universe the same thing as 'protesting', and FLBear knows this.

"the military blowing up speed boats with Hellfire missiles because they fit a profile"

Again, FLBear wants everyone to forget the context. Last I checked, every boat destroyed actually was crewed by armed narco gangs. The only sane take from FLBear's claim is that he wants us to protect the narco gangs. You'd have to ask him why.

"and taking Greenland because we want it , that is pretty far right."

This one is unique, because to the best of my mind I never once said we should seize Greenland. Would not be the first time FLBear has accused me to supporting something no one but the voices in his head actually said.

Moving on to the rest of his rant, we see the following:

"To be fair, I think the Govt forgiving student debt in programs is a good thing, being in NATO is worth it and we need a type of Obamacare/ACA. So that puts me just right of Prisker and left of pretty much this Board."

FLBear is completely wrong on government paying off private debt, even student loans. Obamacare/ACA was raping the American patient en masse for decades, so how any person with a conscience could support it is evidence of DNC contributions. Now as for NATO, I see value in the organization, but only if every nation pays the same amount and every nation has the same rights as the other member nations. But of course. Europe in recent years is far from the Europe whose ass we saved more than once.


"i agree with Eisenhower, the Government should be fiscally responsible and help people's lives be better if it could. Defense should not come at the expense of people."

FLBear has, on the evidence, nothing at all in common with Dwight Eisenhower. Ike, for one thing, would be quick to remind FLBear that the responsibility for Defense is actually in the Constitution, as opposed to the other garbage in his post he wants us to pay for.

For all practical purposes, this conclusively proves FLBear is a Democrat in mind and soul.


You actually should read some of Ike's stuff. He is not on the same page with you or this crowd.

As for Greenland, I stand corrected and apologize. The other two people can read your responses, I stand pat on those.
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