Why are/aren't you a Christian

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TrojanMoondoggie
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xfrodobagginsx said:

I have looked at other religions. Only Christianity is true. Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies. Jesus performed many miracles. Jesus died and rose again. Jesus changes lives even today, including mine. All other religious leaders died and stayed dead. None of them could perform miracles to prove who they were. None of them fulfilled any prophecies, let alone hundreds. Christianity is the truth.



And that's what it comes down to. There is only one truth. And that is Jesus Christ. He is the one who died on the cross so the rest of us wouldn't have to perish eternally. He took our sins onto His own shoulders for us. Because we were unable to make the right choices at the onset of this world's creation, and were therefore unable to save ourselves from what we had created.
Sure, there are some nice aspects to be found in other religions, but those are just human behavior choices that are, well, nice.
But those religions don't place Jesus Christ at the center of their lives. And Christ is the only truth.

Why am I a Christian?
I was raised with that belief system. But then I chose to accept it as the only truth. And for me it wasn't so much the religion itself, but the relationship that falls within it. The relationship with Christ. The man who died on the cross for me.
Christianity incorporates a number of different groups. But just calling yourself a Christian isn't enough. There has to be a relationship there as well. A relationship with Christ.

Does my faith get tested? Yes. But that's because without questions there is no need for faith. They go hand in hand. And God understands this.
And Jesus, as God on earth, also understands our questions, our temptations. Even He questioned His Father as to why the cup (of His sacrifice) could not be removed from Him.

So He gets us. He understands us.

And when His followers saw Him risen, didn't He tell them that they the opportunity to see it all unfold right in front of their eyes. They saw Him die, but they also saw Him resurrected back to life. He said that others who follow will not have that chance to actually see Him in the flesh, so they would have to rely on the faith that it happened. And He will bless those who have that faith.

My beliefs are also confirmed by the prophesies that are outlined in the Bible. Prophesy that is coming to fruition before our eyes.

And have you ever noticed that whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, some people just bristle.

Why should the name of God be so triggering to people. He was a person of love, and acceptance. And forgiveness. The way some people act toward Him, it secures my belief in Him even more.

The way I have seen people react to Jesus just reminds me of what He said. If you follow Him people won't like you, because they didn't like Him. Prophetic. And we see that reality surrounding us everyday. It makes me believe in Him, and His words even more.

We have been told to remove the plank from our eye before removing the splinter from someone else's. We have been told that only if we are without sin do we have the right to cast the first stone at another. Since we are all sinners, none of us have that right. Only God Himself stands as our judge. So I won't judge a person's level of Christianity. Or if they are really a Christian or not. You can say the right words, but do you live them? This is what I have to self-evaluate all the time. Because I know the belief is there. And I know I'm saved. But do I always act the way Jesus would have me act.
LIB,MR BEARS
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TrojanMoondoggie said:

xfrodobagginsx said:

I have looked at other religions. Only Christianity is true. Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies. Jesus performed many miracles. Jesus died and rose again. Jesus changes lives even today, including mine. All other religious leaders died and stayed dead. None of them could perform miracles to prove who they were. None of them fulfilled any prophecies, let alone hundreds. Christianity is the truth.



And that's what it comes down to. There is only one truth. And that is Jesus Christ. He is the one who died on the cross so the rest of us wouldn't have to perish eternally. He took our sins onto His own shoulders for us. Because we were unable to make the right choices at the onset of this world's creation, and were therefore unable to save ourselves from what we had created.
Sure, there are some nice aspects to be found in other religions, but those are just human behavior choices that are, well, nice.
But those religions don't place Jesus Christ at the center of their lives. And Christ is the only truth.

Why am I a Christian?
I was raised with that belief system. But then I chose to accept it as the only truth. And for me it wasn't so much the religion itself, but the relationship that falls within it. The relationship with Christ. The man who died on the cross for me.
Christianity incorporates a number of different groups. But just calling yourself a Christian isn't enough. There has to be a relationship there as well. A relationship with Christ.

Does my faith get tested? Yes. But that's because without questions there is no need for faith. They go hand in hand. And God understands this.
And Jesus, as God on earth, also understands our questions, our temptations. Even He questioned His Father as to why the cup (of His sacrifice) could not be removed from Him.

So He gets us. He understands us.

And when His followers saw Him risen, didn't He tell them that they the opportunity to see it all unfold right in front of their eyes. They saw Him die, but they also saw Him resurrected back to life. He said that others who follow will not have that chance to actually see Him in the flesh, so they would have to rely on the faith that it happened. And He will bless those who have that faith.

My beliefs are also confirmed by the prophesies that are outlined in the Bible. Prophesy that is coming to fruition before our eyes.

And have you ever noticed that whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, some people just bristle.

Why should the name of God be so triggering to people. He was a person of love, and acceptance. And forgiveness. The way some people act toward Him, it secures my belief in Him even more.

The way I have seen people react to Jesus just reminds me of what He said. If you follow Him people won't like you, because they didn't like Him. Prophetic. And we see that reality surrounding us everyday. It makes me believe in Him, and His words even more.

We have been told to remove the plank from our eye before removing the splinter from someone else's. We have been told that only if we are without sin do we have the right to cast the first stone at another. Since we are all sinners, none of us have that right. Only God Himself stands as our judge. So I won't judge a person's level of Christianity. Or if they are really a Christian or not. You can say the right words, but do you live them? This is what I have to self-evaluate all the time. Because I know the belief is there. And I know I'm saved. But do I always act the way Jesus would have me act.


Sorry, the board is set up so I can only give you 1 star.
4th and Inches
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

4th and Inches said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

I think religion is nothing more than a bid for control because the alternative is terrifying. At some point you'll close your eyes and…nothing, just nothing…and I cannot fathom a more terrifying thought than simply ceasing to exist.

So the concept of heaven gives you something to look forward to that isn't *nothing* and the concept of hell is a great way to convince people to be good.

OTOH, it's really hard to look around and think that all of this is random happenstance…


So , do you fall to paragraph 1 or paragraph 3 and why do you fall that direction?

It depends on the day and how close I feel to death tbh.


Good answer. You know, we never know when that day will be. If we think we have 5-10 years our choices are different than if we have 6 months. The thing is, we don't know if we're going to get t-boned going through an intersection.

Don't wait too long.

I grew up the son of a military man that did double duty as a Baptist deacon. A man that spoke and read 7-8 languages. We had a copy of the Bible, the Torah in Hebrew, the Quran in Arabic. Intellectually I see how no one believes in God, it makes no sense at all. Spiritually I think it's hard to deny the existence of some higher power but that could just be the hope for something after life.

I've been Baptised and I still fall to the "I believe" side of the equation but I often think I'm merely hedging my bet.



Many of the Psalms show that David had quite a bit of doubt. You are far from alone.

Do you or have you ever read the Psalms? There's some great stuff for all of us in there. I think you'll find you share some very similar feelings with the author(s).
many books in the Bible are the gift of knowledge to us, psalms is an instruction manual how to pray to God

True. Several of those psalms show doubt. Maybe I did a poor job expressing that to Nein

A great example is comparing psalms 22 and 23.
22 shows utter despair and in verses 1&2 doubt as to whether God even hears the Psalmists. The 23rd shows no despair at all-only confidence in God. They both end with confidence in God but start totally different.

God hears all who seek Him and Know Him regardless of where we are in our doubts, fears, confidence and joy. We are truly blessed.


it wasnt that you missed on your explanation as my post was an expansion of thought. In every victory, all the glory to God the Father.. in all my struggles, may His strength and mercy be my testimony. Pray to Him in the sorrows, praise Him in the victories.

Do all you can in every encounter to decrease self and magnify Him.

ROMANS 11:36
"For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen."

Its easy to talk about what I accomplished(which is truthfully nothing) and hard to Him all the glory each time, especially if you are not in an active relationship with Him.

First words of the day from me is good morning Father, I cant wait to see what you do with me today.

He is not a King in charge who demands without care, He is a loving Father who acts as a father does.. blessings because he can and admonishment when you get out of order.

PHILIPPIANS 1:6
"Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."
LIB,MR BEARS
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4th and Inches said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

4th and Inches said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

I think religion is nothing more than a bid for control because the alternative is terrifying. At some point you'll close your eyes and…nothing, just nothing…and I cannot fathom a more terrifying thought than simply ceasing to exist.

So the concept of heaven gives you something to look forward to that isn't *nothing* and the concept of hell is a great way to convince people to be good.

OTOH, it's really hard to look around and think that all of this is random happenstance…


So , do you fall to paragraph 1 or paragraph 3 and why do you fall that direction?

It depends on the day and how close I feel to death tbh.


Good answer. You know, we never know when that day will be. If we think we have 5-10 years our choices are different than if we have 6 months. The thing is, we don't know if we're going to get t-boned going through an intersection.

Don't wait too long.

I grew up the son of a military man that did double duty as a Baptist deacon. A man that spoke and read 7-8 languages. We had a copy of the Bible, the Torah in Hebrew, the Quran in Arabic. Intellectually I see how no one believes in God, it makes no sense at all. Spiritually I think it's hard to deny the existence of some higher power but that could just be the hope for something after life.

I've been Baptised and I still fall to the "I believe" side of the equation but I often think I'm merely hedging my bet.



Many of the Psalms show that David had quite a bit of doubt. You are far from alone.

Do you or have you ever read the Psalms? There's some great stuff for all of us in there. I think you'll find you share some very similar feelings with the author(s).
many books in the Bible are the gift of knowledge to us, psalms is an instruction manual how to pray to God

True. Several of those psalms show doubt. Maybe I did a poor job expressing that to Nein

A great example is comparing psalms 22 and 23.
22 shows utter despair and in verses 1&2 doubt as to whether God even hears the Psalmists. The 23rd shows no despair at all-only confidence in God. They both end with confidence in God but start totally different.

God hears all who seek Him and Know Him regardless of where we are in our doubts, fears, confidence and joy. We are truly blessed.


it wasnt that you missed on your explanation as my post was an expansion of thought. In every victory, all the glory to God the Father.. in all my struggles, may His strength and mercy be my testimony. Pray to Him in the sorrows, praise Him in the victories.

Do all you can in every encounter to decrease self and magnify Him.

ROMANS 11:36
"For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen."

Its easy to talk about what I accomplished(which is truthfully nothing) and hard to Him all the glory each time, especially if you are not in an active relationship with Him.

First words of the day from me is good morning Father, I cant wait to see what you do with me today.

He is not a King in charge who demands without care, He is a loving Father who acts as a father does.. blessings because he can and admonishment when you get out of order.

PHILIPPIANS 1:6
"Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."


I'm afraid you're in the same situation as moondoggie, I can only give you 1 star.

Two great verses and I'll add one more; Thessalonians 5:18 "In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you."
nein51
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Oldbear83 said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.

You have faith you're right and the Muslims are wrong, that works entirely in reverse for them.

Someone out there has faith that if you just have faith in SOMETHING then you're all correct which, logically, can't be possible.

If faith is nothing more than hope, then much of human endeavor is nothing but hope.

Marriages are based on faith, the trust that your commitment at your wedding will last past the time infatuation fades and you have to work at the relationship.

Your career is based on trust that all your work will lead to success and growth.

Your friendships are built off the trust and faith you share with those you consider friends.

Your health depends on faith that the counsel and medicine/treatment you receive from your doctor is good and right, and will lead to long-term health.

Your confidence in life itself depends on believing there is more to it than just biological processes.

Life is a walk in faith, even for those who do not believe in God at all. It's ironic but true, as self-reflection will show anyone who looks.

My wife cheating on me or my job not working out requires a lot less faith/hope than an eternal lake of fire if you catch my drift
LIB,MR BEARS
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nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.

You have faith you're right and the Muslims are wrong, that works entirely in reverse for them.

Someone out there has faith that if you just have faith in SOMETHING then you're all correct which, logically, can't be possible.

If faith is nothing more than hope, then much of human endeavor is nothing but hope.

Marriages are based on faith, the trust that your commitment at your wedding will last past the time infatuation fades and you have to work at the relationship.

Your career is based on trust that all your work will lead to success and growth.

Your friendships are built off the trust and faith you share with those you consider friends.

Your health depends on faith that the counsel and medicine/treatment you receive from your doctor is good and right, and will lead to long-term health.

Your confidence in life itself depends on believing there is more to it than just biological processes.

Life is a walk in faith, even for those who do not believe in God at all. It's ironic but true, as self-reflection will show anyone who looks.

My wife cheating on me or my job not working out requires a lot less faith/hope than an eternal lake of fire if you catch my drift


You lost me. It sounds like you're saying the stakes are too high so you're not going to play but, I don't think I'm reading your correctly. Can you expand on your thoughts some?
Oldbear83
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nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.

You have faith you're right and the Muslims are wrong, that works entirely in reverse for them.

Someone out there has faith that if you just have faith in SOMETHING then you're all correct which, logically, can't be possible.

If faith is nothing more than hope, then much of human endeavor is nothing but hope.

Marriages are based on faith, the trust that your commitment at your wedding will last past the time infatuation fades and you have to work at the relationship.

Your career is based on trust that all your work will lead to success and growth.

Your friendships are built off the trust and faith you share with those you consider friends.

Your health depends on faith that the counsel and medicine/treatment you receive from your doctor is good and right, and will lead to long-term health.

Your confidence in life itself depends on believing there is more to it than just biological processes.

Life is a walk in faith, even for those who do not believe in God at all. It's ironic but true, as self-reflection will show anyone who looks.

My wife cheating on me or my job not working out requires a lot less faith/hope than an eternal lake of fire if you catch my drift

I'm more focused on being the best version of myself I can be today.

My faith is not on what happens after I die, but how to be the person I hope to be.

The point about marriage, career and so on, is that you do your best, learn and work to be better. Others have noted that humans all screw up to some degree, so it's not about me standing around judging someone else, it's about not doing what I know is hateful, and doing more of what I know helps people.

In Christ I have an exemplar to follow. Never gonna walk on water, but looking around to help people in need then doing what I can, is a way I'd rather live.
FLBear5630
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Believe there is something out there that is behind all of this. Random chance just doesnt add up to me. So i do believe in God, I am sure I do because in times of true risk, such as jumping out if a plane, going to Kuwait, my Mom dying there was always a peace that I can't explain.

Religion is another story. Bible confuses me. So when i pray, i pray to God. I follow Catholicism because i feel comfortable there. But one denomination is as good as another, a man made mechanism for worship of the same God.
Redbrickbear
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LIB,MR BEARS
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Redbrickbear said:



He has a nice outlook to be in such a tough place.

I hope non-believers are able to see that he has something they don't and will investigate what that is and how to get there.

Romans 10: 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[g
Realitybites
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nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.
nein51
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Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope
LIB,MR BEARS
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nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen
TexasScientist
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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Evidence of reality. It's that simple.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
FLBear5630
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TexasScientist said:

Evidence of reality. It's that simple.

If you are looking for evidence I have read two books that resonated with me.

Language of God by Francis Collins

and

The Believing Scientist by Barr

Both address the presence of God in Science.


Anything from the Vatican Observatory.

"The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest active astronomical observatories in the world, with its roots going back to 1582 and the Gregorian reform of the calendar.

Headquartered at the papal summer residence in Castel Gandolfo, outside Rome, this official work of the Vatican City State supports a dozen priests and brothers (Jesuits and diocesan) from four continents who study the universe utilizing modern scientific methods.

Other collaborators of the Observatory include adjunct scholars (clergy and lay men and women) from many scientific disciplines, and scientists at major astronomical institutions around the world.
Quote:

They stand at the forefront of scientific research covering a broad range of topics, from an examination of the tiniest specks of interplanetary dust to the origin and structure of the universe.

Home - Vatican Observatory


The Vatican Observatory is really good if you are looking for science and religion. I met a few in Tucson, really interesting stuff. I love the Jesuits, they believe there are different ways to serve God according to each's skills and calling. Really interesting if you are open minded enough to just talk...
TexasScientist
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FLBear5630 said:

TexasScientist said:

Evidence of reality. It's that simple.

If you are looking for evidence I have read two books that resonated with me.

Language of God by Francis Collins

and

The Believing Scientist by Barr

Both address the presence of God in Science.


Anything from the Vatican Observatory.

"The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest active astronomical observatories in the world, with its roots going back to 1582 and the Gregorian reform of the calendar.

Headquartered at the papal summer residence in Castel Gandolfo, outside Rome, this official work of the Vatican City State supports a dozen priests and brothers (Jesuits and diocesan) from four continents who study the universe utilizing modern scientific methods.

Other collaborators of the Observatory include adjunct scholars (clergy and lay men and women) from many scientific disciplines, and scientists at major astronomical institutions around the world.
Quote:

They stand at the forefront of scientific research covering a broad range of topics, from an examination of the tiniest specks of interplanetary dust to the origin and structure of the universe.

Home - Vatican Observatory


The Vatican Observatory is really good if you are looking for science and religion. I met a few in Tucson, really interesting stuff. I love the Jesuits, they believe there are different ways to serve God according to each's skills and calling. Really interesting if you are open minded enough to just talk...

I appreciate your references. I find other views and perspectives interesting. However, there is no presence of god in science. Even Francis Collins didn't rely on "divine revelation" or intervention in his and his colleague's work on DNA. For that matter, he accepts and is a proponent of evolution, something most Christians believe unacceptable. The reason he does, is the evidence is irrefutable. The problem with all religion is it is a human and cultural construct for a myriad of reasons and purposes. Most religions have origins in primitive beliefs. As the evidence of reality (scientific revelation) refutes certain aspects of those beliefs, religion is forced into revisions and reinterpretation, and an ever shrinking realm of the unknown. The only place where religion thrives. Apologetics (I call it Excusogetics) is orgnaized religion's attempt to survive and remain relevant in the face of revelation/reality.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
BearWithMe
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


Thanks for the honest answer.

What things about the Bible and/or about Jesus do you believe if any?
I believe the Bible is a collection of ancient texts with history, mythology/allegory, and theology/philosophy all interwoven together.

As for Jesus, I think it's almost certain he was a real historical figure, he was a Jewish man from Galilee, was baptized by John the Baptist, gathered followers and taught, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and some of his followers believed he rose from the dead and continued spreading his message.

There's plenty more obviously, but hopeful that helps answer at a high level.
LIB,MR BEARS
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TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Thanks for participating in the thread

Here is the OP.
"Tell us about yourself prior to commenting on someone else.

So, what is your "why"?
Oldbear83
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BearWithMe said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


Thanks for the honest answer.

What things about the Bible and/or about Jesus do you believe if any?

I believe the Bible is a collection of ancient texts with history, mythology/allegory, and theology/philosophy all interwoven together.

As for Jesus, I think it's almost certain he was a real historical figure, he was a Jewish man from Galilee, was baptized by John the Baptist, gathered followers and taught, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and some of his followers believed he rose from the dead and continued spreading his message.

There's plenty more obviously, but hopeful that helps answer at a high level.

You left out an important detail - that the disciples of Jesus, all of them, were willing to suffer terrible punishment, even die, rather than retract their claim that Christ rose from the dead.

Also, that despite some very vigorous efforts by Jewish and Roman authorities to suppress and wipe out the believers, the Church survived, thrived and in the end is still here long after its persecutors passed on.

Quite the historic anomaly.
LIB,MR BEARS
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Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


Thanks for the honest answer.

What things about the Bible and/or about Jesus do you believe if any?

I believe the Bible is a collection of ancient texts with history, mythology/allegory, and theology/philosophy all interwoven together.

As for Jesus, I think it's almost certain he was a real historical figure, he was a Jewish man from Galilee, was baptized by John the Baptist, gathered followers and taught, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and some of his followers believed he rose from the dead and continued spreading his message.

There's plenty more obviously, but hopeful that helps answer at a high level.

You left out an important detail - that the disciples of Jesus, all of them, were willing to suffer terrible punishment, even die, rather than retract their claim that Christ rose from the dead.

Also, that despite some very vigorous efforts by Jewish and Roman authorities to suppress and wipe out the believers, the Church survived, thrived and in the end is still here long after its persecutors passed on.

Quite the historic anomaly.


Beyond all reason it thrived
nein51
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TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people
LIB,MR BEARS
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TexasScientist said:

Evidence of reality. It's that simple.
what is your why?

From the thread title
" Why are/aren't you a Christian"
BearWithMe
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Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


Thanks for the honest answer.

What things about the Bible and/or about Jesus do you believe if any?

I believe the Bible is a collection of ancient texts with history, mythology/allegory, and theology/philosophy all interwoven together.

As for Jesus, I think it's almost certain he was a real historical figure, he was a Jewish man from Galilee, was baptized by John the Baptist, gathered followers and taught, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and some of his followers believed he rose from the dead and continued spreading his message.

There's plenty more obviously, but hopeful that helps answer at a high level.

You left out an important detail - that the disciples of Jesus, all of them, were willing to suffer terrible punishment, even die, rather than retract their claim that Christ rose from the dead.

Also, that despite some very vigorous efforts by Jewish and Roman authorities to suppress and wipe out the believers, the Church survived, thrived and in the end is still here long after its persecutors passed on.

Quite the historic anomaly.
We have very few early sources for the disciples' martyrdoms and none being contemporary.

Josephus mentions James around 30 years after his death, Clement of Rome references Peter and Paul a generation later, and Tacitus mentions Neronian persecution without naming specific disciples. Acts records the execution of James son of Zebedee, though its dating is debated.

Most of what people think about how specific apostles died comes from Eusebius and apocryphal texts written centuries later.
LIB,MR BEARS
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BearWithMe said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


Thanks for the honest answer.

What things about the Bible and/or about Jesus do you believe if any?

I believe the Bible is a collection of ancient texts with history, mythology/allegory, and theology/philosophy all interwoven together.

As for Jesus, I think it's almost certain he was a real historical figure, he was a Jewish man from Galilee, was baptized by John the Baptist, gathered followers and taught, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and some of his followers believed he rose from the dead and continued spreading his message.

There's plenty more obviously, but hopeful that helps answer at a high level.

You left out an important detail - that the disciples of Jesus, all of them, were willing to suffer terrible punishment, even die, rather than retract their claim that Christ rose from the dead.

Also, that despite some very vigorous efforts by Jewish and Roman authorities to suppress and wipe out the believers, the Church survived, thrived and in the end is still here long after its persecutors passed on.

Quite the historic anomaly.
We have very few early sources for the disciples' martyrdoms and none being contemporary.

Josephus mentions James around 30 years after his death, Clement of Rome references Peter and Paul a generation later, and Tacitus mentions Neronian persecution without naming specific disciples. Acts records the execution of James son of Zebedee, though its dating is debated.

Most of what people think about how specific apostles died comes from Eusebius and apocryphal texts written centuries later.


Just as there is no contradictory record of the empty tomb, there is no contradictory record of the martyrdom of the apostles.

https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/how-do-we-know-that-the-apostles-really-died-as-martyrs/
FLBear5630
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TexasScientist said:

FLBear5630 said:

TexasScientist said:

Evidence of reality. It's that simple.

If you are looking for evidence I have read two books that resonated with me.

Language of God by Francis Collins

and

The Believing Scientist by Barr

Both address the presence of God in Science.


Anything from the Vatican Observatory.

"The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest active astronomical observatories in the world, with its roots going back to 1582 and the Gregorian reform of the calendar.

Headquartered at the papal summer residence in Castel Gandolfo, outside Rome, this official work of the Vatican City State supports a dozen priests and brothers (Jesuits and diocesan) from four continents who study the universe utilizing modern scientific methods.

Other collaborators of the Observatory include adjunct scholars (clergy and lay men and women) from many scientific disciplines, and scientists at major astronomical institutions around the world.
Quote:

They stand at the forefront of scientific research covering a broad range of topics, from an examination of the tiniest specks of interplanetary dust to the origin and structure of the universe.

Home - Vatican Observatory


The Vatican Observatory is really good if you are looking for science and religion. I met a few in Tucson, really interesting stuff. I love the Jesuits, they believe there are different ways to serve God according to each's skills and calling. Really interesting if you are open minded enough to just talk...

I appreciate your references. I find other views and perspectives interesting. However, there is no presence of god in science. Even Francis Collins didn't rely on "divine revelation" or intervention in his and his colleague's work on DNA. For that matter, he accepts and is a proponent of evolution, something most Christians believe unacceptable. The reason he does, is the evidence is irrefutable. The problem with all religion is it is a human and cultural construct for a myriad of reasons and purposes. Most religions have origins in primitive beliefs. As the evidence of reality (scientific revelation) refutes certain aspects of those beliefs, religion is forced into revisions and reinterpretation, and an ever shrinking realm of the unknown. The only place where religion thrives. Apologetics (I call it Excusogetics) is orgnaized religion's attempt to survive and remain relevant in the face of revelation/reality.

Well, yeah. Science and faith don't do well together. However, hearing from those that do believe and spend their lives pursuing science are good place for me to start approaching my doubts.

Sort of like bodybuilding, doing the extreme may not be for me but the knowledge they learn can be used by the rest of us for working out, diet, and fat loss. So, I like looking to the extremes to see what I can learn. With Religion, the extremes of agnostic tend to be the scientist and the extremes on the faith side are the fundamentalist in all religions.

I do agree with religion's struggle, but I think religion will survive anytime you look into the abys and think there is nothing else? I will take my chances with relgion...
TexasScientist
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LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Thanks for participating in the thread

Here is the OP.
"Tell us about yourself prior to commenting on someone else.

So, what is your "why"?

I'd say a combination of what I learned from the Baylor Religion Department and Baylor science departments was the beginning of my questioning fundamentalist dogma. From there it was a matter of objective inquiry and being honest with myself about what I had been taught to believe. A bit of a process.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.

Do you view scientism as a cult as well?
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.

Do you view scientism as a cult as well?

Cults are groups defined by their and their leaders' beliefs. Science a is tool or method to understanding the realities of the Universe, realities of understanding that are empirically quantifiable, testable and repeatable.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.

Do you view scientism as a cult as well?

Cults are groups defined by their and their leaders' beliefs. Science is tool or method to understanding the realities of the Universe, realities of understanding that are empirically quantifiable, testable and repeatable.

What about those who claim to embrace Science, but emotionally cling to assumptions?

Thinking of those 'scientists' who refused to accept Wegener's evidence for Continental Drift, or Semmelweis' evidence that doctors who washed hands ahead of surgery prevented contamination, or Aristarchus' heliocentric Solar System, or Mendel's evidence for genetic inheritance, or Kepler's evidence for elliptical orbits, and so on.

Science indeed has cultists. They just won't admit it.
TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.

Do you view scientism as a cult as well?

Cults are groups defined by their and their leaders' beliefs. Science is tool or method to understanding the realities of the Universe, realities of understanding that are empirically quantifiable, testable and repeatable.

What about those who claim to embrace Science, but emotionally cling to assumptions?

Thinking of those 'scientists' who refused to accept Wegener's evidence for Continental Drift, or Semmelweis' evidence that doctors who washed hands ahead of surgery prevented contamination, or Aristarchus' heliocentric Solar System, or Mendel's evidence for genetic inheritance, or Kepler's evidence for elliptical orbits, and so on.

Science indeed has cultists. They just won't admit it.

Actually those are who questioned the evidence (including the Church), but the scientific process and method prevailed in understanding reality. Science is a method of questioning and testing hypotheses. It is always open to question, unlike religion.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.

Do you view scientism as a cult as well?

Cults are groups defined by their and their leaders' beliefs. Science is tool or method to understanding the realities of the Universe, realities of understanding that are empirically quantifiable, testable and repeatable.

What about those who claim to embrace Science, but emotionally cling to assumptions?

Thinking of those 'scientists' who refused to accept Wegener's evidence for Continental Drift, or Semmelweis' evidence that doctors who washed hands ahead of surgery prevented contamination, or Aristarchus' heliocentric Solar System, or Mendel's evidence for genetic inheritance, or Kepler's evidence for elliptical orbits, and so on.

Science indeed has cultists. They just won't admit it.

Actually those are who questioned the evidence (including the Church), but the scientific process and method prevailed in understanding reality. Science is a method of questioning and testing hypotheses. It is always open to question, unlike religion.

Repeating a debunked claim does not make it true, TS.

There are just as many people who cling to false assumptions in the name of 'Science', as ever do in the name of Religion.

TexasScientist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

TexasScientist said:

nein51 said:

TexasScientist said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

nein51 said:

Realitybites said:

nein51 said:

Oldbear83 said:

BearWithMe said:

I have yet to find sufficient evidence (scientific, historical, theological, philosophical, or otherwise) that convincingly demonstrates the validity of Christianity's core claims.


That's kind of why there is so much emphasis on faith, BearWithMe.

It's about the soul, not quant analysis.

You have to recognize how this sounds to a non believer thought, right?

Every Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, pastafarian all believe because "faith". Faith is nothing more than hope. You're hoping you're right just like a Mormon is hoping they are right.


Fortunately the Bible defines faith for us in Hebrews 11:1. It is more than simple hope.

"Faith is the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

The hope generated by the circumstantial evidence, if you will.

That is why my journey to Christianity began with Romans and Genesis the first time I read a Bible. The philosophical realization that "this is right!" preceeded reading anything specific from the gospels or Acts.

Evidence of things not seen is hope

Gravity
Love
Grace
Mercy
There is evidence for all of these things not seen

Evidence of gravity can be seen. Hope and faith are not evidence.

Love, grace and mercy are also concepts that have various meanings to various people

Of course. Those are somewhat intangible and immeasurable emotions. Persuasion from philosophical argument alone leaves the door open to mistake and error. Cults thrive in that environment.

Do you view scientism as a cult as well?

Cults are groups defined by their and their leaders' beliefs. Science is tool or method to understanding the realities of the Universe, realities of understanding that are empirically quantifiable, testable and repeatable.

What about those who claim to embrace Science, but emotionally cling to assumptions?

Thinking of those 'scientists' who refused to accept Wegener's evidence for Continental Drift, or Semmelweis' evidence that doctors who washed hands ahead of surgery prevented contamination, or Aristarchus' heliocentric Solar System, or Mendel's evidence for genetic inheritance, or Kepler's evidence for elliptical orbits, and so on.

Science indeed has cultists. They just won't admit it.

Actually those are who questioned the evidence (including the Church), but the scientific process and method prevailed in understanding reality. Science is a method of questioning and testing hypotheses. It is always open to question, unlike religion.

Repeating a debunked claim does not make it true, TS.

There are just as many people who cling to false assumptions in the name of 'Science', as ever do in the name of Religion.



There is a lot of science that was repressed by the Church. Just ask Galileo, and Bruno. Both of whom's heretical ideas eventually were accepted by the Church.

False assumptions are just that, regardless of who holds them. There is a difference in assumptions that are based upon empirical objective evidence. That's why one should board an aircraft for flight as opposed to jumping from a 20 story building.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A lot of Science was repressed by people calling themselves 'scientists'.

Telling how you keep ignoring that.
 
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