TexasScientist said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Tempus Edax Rerum said:

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It's fake.

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it doesnt matter if it is real or not.. what matters is having a real relationship with the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The time is short but you still have enough to sincerely accept Him and the gift of salvation.

Believe in your heart and publicly declare Jesus christ your lord who was raised from the dead after dying for the forgiveness of your sins and is eternally alive today at the right hand of the Father.

He is at the door..

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Amen

That said, even science has proven it's real

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Sorry, but that's not true. In fact, science has dated it to the Middle Ages. There is no credible science supporting its authenticity.

Why won't the Church allow it to be further tested?? Technology is even better now than when it was last allowed to be examined on a limited basis.

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Im sorry but you're uneducated on this topic if that is your belief.

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Actually I'm pretty educated on it. I posted a link to a video in this thread that addresses most all of the claims regarding its authenticity, and the scientific studies that were conducted.

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Longlist of non 1988 Evidence posted. Youre welcome

Disputes all you think you believe.

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1988 radiocarbon dating confirms it to be 14th century. All of the attempts to misrepresent it as authentic with unconventional methods have been thoroughly debunked.

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You are clearly ignorant on this subject. Study more. Happy to discuss to help educate you

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The claims of a metaphysics wacko does not equate to reality. You don't have any objective science or historical facts to support your mythological belief. If you did, you would have produced it.

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Au contraire. My proof exists. Additionally, I have a list of like 30 items. All indisputable. Presented here.

However, if you were correct, any fools not believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour coild easily reproduce this 700 years after a medieval peasant painted it

And yet….you can't. Or you would.

Same with Our Lady of Guadalupe which will celebrate its 500th of magically not disintegrating since 1531.

That peasant magic and science is amazing!

Onions.

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"Your 'proof' relies on the idea that if modern science can't perfectly copy a medieval artifact using a specific set of rules, it must be magic. That isn't how logic or historians work. We can't perfectly recreate the exact composition of Roman concrete, but nobody claims Roman gods made it.

Here is the actual reality of your two 'indisputable' relics:

1. The Shroud of Turin:

a.) Dating the Shroud to the 14th century is well documented: Radiocarbon dating in 1988 by three independent labs placed the cloth squarely between 1260 and 1390. Furthermore, a document written around 1370 by French philosopher and bishop Nicole Oresme confirms that the shroud was widely known in Paris as a fraudulent artistic representation, not a relic.b.) It has been replicated: Scientists like Luigi Garlaschelli successfully reproduced the Shroud's size, negative image, and characteristics using only medieval-era materials, acid pigments, and artificial aging.c.) The weave itself gives it away: The Shroud features a 3/1 chevron herringbone twill. This specific pattern required a four-shaft treadle loom, technology that didn't exist in the 1st-century Middle East but was widely introduced to Europe in the 13th century.

2. Our Lady of Guadalupe:

a.) It has been heavily restored and repaired: The claim that the tilma 'magically hasn't disintegrated' ignores centuries of human maintenance. Infrared photography and formal restorations (like those in 1926 and 1947) proved that the image has been painted over, touched up, and modified multiple times with traditional pigments to keep it from fading.b.) It is Painted on Hemp/Linen, Not Cactus: While the myth says it's made of fragile agave/cactus fiber that rots in 20 years, chemical and microscopic examinations show the fabric is actually a much hardier hemp or linen blend, which routinely survives for centuries in controlled indoor environments.It's ironic you brought up onions, because like an onion, the closer you peel back the layers of these relics with actual scientific peer-reviewed data, the more the 'magic' completely evaporates."

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