Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

And the Left is obsessed with letting illegals and other criminals go free to commit more crimes.

It's Leftists, not the GOP, who want to abolish police and prisons. Some have said so out loud. Most others demonstrate this agenda with their actions.

The Dems are pro-crime.

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Lets ignore the13% that commits 60% of violent crime... we need to re-focus the attention on white men and why they are the biggest domestic threat in America.

Right Governor?

303bear is from the Denver area which has become a liberal shythole so you know what he thinks about illegals

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

The_barBEARian said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Lets ignore the13% that commits 60% of violent crime... we need to re-focus the attention on white men and why they are the biggest domestic threat in America.

Right Governor?

---

You continue to do a great job of ascribing to me positions which I have never taken. You're consistent at least, I will give you that.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

More misstatements and deception.

I never said "immigrants cause crime". I said illegal aliens are criminals, an obvious fact by definition, and that they often commit more crimes.

Crime did increase significantly under Biden. The Democrat crime wave was real. As I mentioned before, the Dems and "their defund the police" obsession along with Dem DA's who refused to prosecute contributed dramatically to the increase.

You talk mostly in generalities while repeating Leftist propaganda. I cited specific issues. Crime victims are not about "feelings", they are real people who suffered horribly an unnecessarily because the fascists are pro-crime.

---

You cited literally nothing and your assertion that there was a crime waive under Biden is not supported by facts. Crime rates nation wide have dropped steadily since 2020.

---

The crime wave of illegal immigration, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden. We don't even have to look up the stats to know it. It's basic economics. We also know that blue cities don't report immigration status in most of their crime stats for obvious reasons - because the globalists don't want citizens to know how much crime is committed by immigrants - legal or not.

You're just not good at this, you lap up what the TV sells you. Here's reality - illegal immigration is a crime. Illegal immigrant communities report less crime as well. Mass immigration displaces lower income people (citizens and non-citizens) in the labor force and grows an environment where crime will more readily occur. It's not a question of "if" - it is basic economics and the laws of incentives. People are predictable as a group.

You're likely one of the clowns who was arguing to defund the police. You're likely one of the idiots who was saying "walls don't work" when every piece of evidence indicates that they do.

You seem like a smart guy who can't do any bit of critical thinking and just regurgitates lib talking points.

---

Please point out a "lib talking point" I have made. Please point out anywhere I have advocated to defund the police. I have been very open about the closure of the southern border being the only notable accomplishment of Trump's second term thus far, and a scathing indictment of every administration (of both parties) over the last 40 years that said it could not be done effectively. This has also clearly had a direct role in the reduction in deaths from fentanyl (though the total number still remains higher in the US than any other country on earth), ironically, several border states are among the handful where deaths from fentanyl increased in 2025.

You're moving the goal posts even though you will claim you aren't. Saying "illegals are criminals" is perfectly true, it also is not what was originally being discussed. The assertion that " Crime did increase significantly under Biden" is not supported by statistics, regardless of who the perpetrators are. Your post is effectively your admission there are no statistics to back up the assertion, but it definitely happened despite that because of reasons.

Making up supposed positions I take based on 0 evidence (other than i disagree with you on a singular point, therefore I must also hold every other opinion you disagree with) is intellectually lazy and a laughable strawman to build up in a post where you accuse me of lacking critical thinking skills.

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

---

A discussion of crime and incarceration rates nation wide is vastly different than a discussion of whether or not there was a crime waive due to immigrants, which was the proposition set forth in this thread.

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

---

A discussion of crime and incarceration rates nation wide is vastly different than a discussion of whether or not there was a crime waive due to immigrants, which was the proposition set forth in this thread.

---

We yes we can be more specific.

The crime waive was not due primarily due to immigrants.

But in a place like Maine: "Maine has an overall incarceration rate of 272 per 100,000 residents"...we see that CATO data shows that both legal and illegal immigrants have rates higher than that.....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Frank Galvin said:

---

Simple question

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/bo-french-faces-backlash-over-posts-criticizing-ut-students.amp

---

Remember! This isnt the problem, you are native white American man!...

Greenwood, Indiana pic.twitter.com/RnAopEBT5s

— vincenzo (@alargemike) September 13, 2026

Here is governor Abbott proclaiming Texas is a land for India and the Indian community

Texans have voted for a man willing to aid the invasion of Texas

Wow pic.twitter.com/NT9Y1CjCrV

— John Ferguson (@JohnnyWhiskyTX) April 6, 2026

Of course Franky is okay with that shyt until it hits his neighborhood

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

---

A discussion of crime and incarceration rates nation wide is vastly different than a discussion of whether or not there was a crime waive due to immigrants, which was the proposition set forth in this thread.

---

We yes we can be more specific.

The crime waive was not due primarily due to immigrants.

But in a place like Maine: "Maine has an overall incarceration rate of 272 per 100,000 residents"...we see that CATO data shows that both legal and illegal immigrants have rates higher than that.....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

---

Maine has one of, if not the lowest crime rate in the country. You are comparing that against the nation wide rate. I cannot find a reliable number on crime rate in Maine specific to immigrants, but I do note that through July 2026, ICE had arrested / detained just under 500 immigrants in Maine. Of those, 95-98% had not criminal record and I can only find one confirmed violent offender arrested.

muddybrazos said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Young indian able bodied male pushed around by an older white woman, they have 0 shame.

— Random Human (@America1stpleaz) September 14, 2026

---

Check this out.

Able bodied Indians folks are using the passenger assistance at DFW. All so they don’t have to walk through the airport and get priority boarding.

SMH 🤦🏾‍♂️ pic.twitter.com/tgCMICw1eS

— The Saint ✝️ (@Jai_Gee83) August 14, 2026

Its just part of their culture and liberals tell us all cultures are equal and should be celebrated.

---

I have had a lot of interaction with real Indians. The problem with Indians is their caste system they grew up in.

Yes, they are nice and very intelligent, but the ones coming directly to America think they are better than you and that you are here to serve them. This has how they have been programmed their entire life.

Second generation may be different, but the reason you see this silly accommodation really meant for disabled people completely taken over by Indians is because they feel superior to you and will take advantage of anything, even if it not meant for them.

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

303Bear said:

---

historian said:

---

It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

---

Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

---

This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

---

I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

---

A discussion of crime and incarceration rates nation wide is vastly different than a discussion of whether or not there was a crime waive due to immigrants, which was the proposition set forth in this thread.

---

We yes we can be more specific.

The crime waive was not due primarily due to immigrants.

But in a place like Maine: "Maine has an overall incarceration rate of 272 per 100,000 residents"...we see that CATO data shows that both legal and illegal immigrants have rates higher than that.....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

---

Maine has one of, if not the lowest crime rate in the country. You are comparing that against the nation wide rate. I cannot find a reliable number on crime rate in Maine specific to immigrants, but I do note that through July 2026, ICE had arrested / detained just under 500 immigrants in Maine. Of those, 95-98% had not criminal record and I can only find one confirmed violent offender arrested.

---

So do we think immigrants do more or less crime based on the State they are in?

What we do know is the rate of many US States is actually very low...and in a few its very very high...skewing the numbers for the USA as a whole.

While we know immigrants are in the 303 per 100k to 674 per 100k range. (legal and illegal)

That is higher than the rate of many American States....

[According to the latest comprehensive state-by-state data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 23 states have a incarceration rate lower than 303 per 100,000 residents. These include states like Massachusetts, Maine, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Hawaii, New York, Washington....]

It's indisputable that illegal aliens are criminals. It's also undeniable that many commit other crimes: murders, thefts, tapes, trafficking, etc. They added to the crime wave but were not the sole reason. The main reason was the pro-crime policies of blue cities and states.

I know it sounds easy to blame the Left but they are the ones that looked the other way when antifa & BLM riots killed many people and harmed many more through terrorism, hindered the apprehension and prosecution of criminals, and generally created an atmosphere that encouraged crime.

I'm not exaggerating when I describe the Dems as pro-crime. It is literally true.

303Bear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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303Bear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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303Bear said:

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historian said:

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More misstatements and deception.

I never said "immigrants cause crime". I said illegal aliens are criminals, an obvious fact by definition, and that they often commit more crimes.

Crime did increase significantly under Biden. The Democrat crime wave was real. As I mentioned before, the Dems and "their defund the police" obsession along with Dem DA's who refused to prosecute contributed dramatically to the increase.

You talk mostly in generalities while repeating Leftist propaganda. I cited specific issues. Crime victims are not about "feelings", they are real people who suffered horribly an unnecessarily because the fascists are pro-crime.

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You cited literally nothing and your assertion that there was a crime waive under Biden is not supported by facts. Crime rates nation wide have dropped steadily since 2020.

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The crime wave of illegal immigration, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden. We don't even have to look up the stats to know it. It's basic economics. We also know that blue cities don't report immigration status in most of their crime stats for obvious reasons - because the globalists don't want citizens to know how much crime is committed by immigrants - legal or not.

You're just not good at this, you lap up what the TV sells you. Here's reality - illegal immigration is a crime. Illegal immigrant communities report less crime as well. Mass immigration displaces lower income people (citizens and non-citizens) in the labor force and grows an environment where crime will more readily occur. It's not a question of "if" - it is basic economics and the laws of incentives. People are predictable as a group.

You're likely one of the clowns who was arguing to defund the police. You're likely one of the idiots who was saying "walls don't work" when every piece of evidence indicates that they do.

You seem like a smart guy who can't do any bit of critical thinking and just regurgitates lib talking points.

---

Please point out a "lib talking point" I have made. Please point out anywhere I have advocated to defund the police. I have been very open about the closure of the southern border being the only notable accomplishment of Trump's second term thus far, and a scathing indictment of every administration (of both parties) over the last 40 years that said it could not be done effectively. This has also clearly had a direct role in the reduction in deaths from fentanyl (though the total number still remains higher in the US than any other country on earth), ironically, several border states are among the handful where deaths from fentanyl increased in 2025.

You're moving the goal posts even though you will claim you aren't. Saying "illegals are criminals" is perfectly true, it also is not what was originally being discussed. The assertion that " Crime did increase significantly under Biden" is not supported by statistics, regardless of who the perpetrators are. Your post is effectively your admission there are no statistics to back up the assertion, but it definitely happened despite that because of reasons.

Making up supposed positions I take based on 0 evidence (other than i disagree with you on a singular point, therefore I must also hold every other opinion you disagree with) is intellectually lazy and a laughable strawman to build up in a post where you accuse me of lacking critical thinking skills.

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As stated - The crime wave of illegal immigration, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden. That's a fact jack.

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A declaratory statement about a single type of crime, a trend in substance abuse and a general statement of "drugs" does not contradict the statement that there was not a general crime waive perpetrated by immigrants as some in this thread have stated / implied (and I note that in several instances there was no attempt to differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants). Well done ignoring everything in my post that contradicts your over-simple conclusion of convenience so that you are still "right".

Fentanyl deaths peaked in 2023 and then feel sharply in 2024 back to near pre-Covid levels. Is that also due to Biden?

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As stated - The crime wave of illegal immigration, human trafficking, sexual assault, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden.

overall stats - we have no way of knowing how greatly immigrants impacted crime, because the largest crime areas do not report that info. We do know mass immigration impacts the citizenry and reduces wages and employment opportunities - especially when combined with the incentives of a nanny state like the US. What we also know - the crime that is directly attributable to immigrants went up, way up.

He is the Juggernaut https://t.co/TFU8Yh4SQg

— William The Old West Outlaw (@William_42318) September 15, 2026

muddybrazos said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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He is the Juggernaut https://t.co/TFU8Yh4SQg

— William The Old West Outlaw (@William_42318) September 15, 2026

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I know this is a meme but Indians getting hit by trains is a very real thing. My brother has been living in the UK for a few years and he told me they have had to stop his train on more than one occasion bc an Indian or Pakistani person was just on the tracks in the way of a train.

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The best memes or stereotypes are always grounded in truth.

The_barBEARian said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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historian said:

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It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

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Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

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I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

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This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

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I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

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Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

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Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

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A discussion of crime and incarceration rates nation wide is vastly different than a discussion of whether or not there was a crime waive due to immigrants, which was the proposition set forth in this thread.

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We yes we can be more specific.

The crime waive was not due primarily due to immigrants.

But in a place like Maine: "Maine has an overall incarceration rate of 272 per 100,000 residents"...we see that CATO data shows that both legal and illegal immigrants have rates higher than that.....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

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Maine has one of, if not the lowest crime rate in the country. You are comparing that against the nation wide rate. I cannot find a reliable number on crime rate in Maine specific to immigrants, but I do note that through July 2026, ICE had arrested / detained just under 500 immigrants in Maine. Of those, 95-98% had not criminal record and I can only find one confirmed violent offender arrested.

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Surprisingly Maine is also the "whitest" state in the country... this must be disinformation! We all know white men are the greatest domestic threat which is why they need to be replaced w/ Indians!

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Sounds like you should move to Maine. Its beautiful and you can avoid all the icky brown people.

Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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303Bear said:

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historian said:

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It's a fact backed by statistics and the headlines almost daily.

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Which statistics? The ones that say illegals are incarcerated at materially lower per capita rates than native born Americans?

https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/illegal-immigrant-incarceration-rates-2010-2024-demographics-american-imprisonment

---

I think we should keep in mind that Cato is a group that is always pro-migration (legal and illegal)

But when viewing these data points we need to keep some facts in mind.

1. America does have a very high crime rate underclass. We all know this and we can all debate its origin and how to fix it. But its existence skews the data with comparing it to new arrivals.

2. The data does remind us that legal immigrants (the ones we want) have a far less crime rate than illegal immigrants.

Which is kind of the point....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

Illegals are literally more than double the incarceration rate of legal immigrants. And that is probably an undercount since its so hard to find, locate, and prosecute illegals in the country without authorization and paperwork.

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This feels like you are purposefully missing/leaving out the broader point, regardless of legal immigration status, the incarceration rate is materially lower than native born Americans. Therefore, the assertion that the waive of new illegal immigrants under Biden led to a crime waive is unsupported by facts (and your point 1 further points this out, even if unintentionally).

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I agree that since the USA already has a violent crime rate higher than other developed nations... that this is not more than the native rate but its not necessarily a great rate in and of itself.

That does not mean its low....something to take into consideration.

Lets compare Illegal immigrant incarceration rate (674 per 100,000) to other developed nations.

"Japan's incarceration rate is approximately 33 per 100,000 of the national population"

"Denmark's incarceration rate is 70 per 100,000 residents"

"Ireland's current prison population rate is approximately 100 per 100,000 of the national population"

That illegal immigrant rate is not great.....

---

Ok, fair. Also a completely different conversation that also gets unhappily into many policy issues well beyond immigration.

---

Its not entirely a different conversation...it touches on this topic and others.

1. We can admit that crime rates from immigrants are less than the rate of Americans.

2. While admitting that America already has a very high crime rate and its actually a extreme rate among developed countries that are our peers.

3. And that immigrant rates are therefore not that great...they are still many times higher than average rates in developed countries.

It would be like saying the average American is $100,000 in debt. While the average illegal immigrant is only $60,000 in debt. While the average Japanese is only $30,000....

Better than the average is not necessary great.

---

A discussion of crime and incarceration rates nation wide is vastly different than a discussion of whether or not there was a crime waive due to immigrants, which was the proposition set forth in this thread.

---

We yes we can be more specific.

The crime waive was not due primarily due to immigrants.

But in a place like Maine: "Maine has an overall incarceration rate of 272 per 100,000 residents"...we see that CATO data shows that both legal and illegal immigrants have rates higher than that.....

[Legal immigrants have the lowest incarceration rate, at 303 per 100,000 legal immigrants in 2024. Illegal immigrants have an incarceration rate of 674 per 100,000 illegal immigrants...]

---

Maine has one of, if not the lowest crime rate in the country. You are comparing that against the nation wide rate. I cannot find a reliable number on crime rate in Maine specific to immigrants, but I do note that through July 2026, ICE had arrested / detained just under 500 immigrants in Maine. Of those, 95-98% had not criminal record and I can only find one confirmed violent offender arrested.

---

So do we think immigrants do more or less crime based on the State they are in?

What we do know is the rate of many US States is actually very low...and in a few its very very high...skewing the numbers for the USA as a whole.

While we know immigrants are in the 303 per 100k to 674 per 100k range. (legal and illegal)

That is higher than the rate of many American States....

[According to the latest comprehensive state-by-state data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 23 states have a incarceration rate lower than 303 per 100,000 residents. These include states like Massachusetts, Maine, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Hawaii, New York, Washington....]

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You're literally just mixing metrics at this point still trying to prove you are "right". Show evidence of a state where immigrants commit more crimes than native born Americans or you are not making a point at all and certainly not proving the point of the majority position on this thread.

TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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303Bear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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303Bear said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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303Bear said:

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historian said:

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More misstatements and deception.

I never said "immigrants cause crime". I said illegal aliens are criminals, an obvious fact by definition, and that they often commit more crimes.

Crime did increase significantly under Biden. The Democrat crime wave was real. As I mentioned before, the Dems and "their defund the police" obsession along with Dem DA's who refused to prosecute contributed dramatically to the increase.

You talk mostly in generalities while repeating Leftist propaganda. I cited specific issues. Crime victims are not about "feelings", they are real people who suffered horribly an unnecessarily because the fascists are pro-crime.

---

You cited literally nothing and your assertion that there was a crime waive under Biden is not supported by facts. Crime rates nation wide have dropped steadily since 2020.

---

The crime wave of illegal immigration, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden. We don't even have to look up the stats to know it. It's basic economics. We also know that blue cities don't report immigration status in most of their crime stats for obvious reasons - because the globalists don't want citizens to know how much crime is committed by immigrants - legal or not.

You're just not good at this, you lap up what the TV sells you. Here's reality - illegal immigration is a crime. Illegal immigrant communities report less crime as well. Mass immigration displaces lower income people (citizens and non-citizens) in the labor force and grows an environment where crime will more readily occur. It's not a question of "if" - it is basic economics and the laws of incentives. People are predictable as a group.

You're likely one of the clowns who was arguing to defund the police. You're likely one of the idiots who was saying "walls don't work" when every piece of evidence indicates that they do.

You seem like a smart guy who can't do any bit of critical thinking and just regurgitates lib talking points.

---

Please point out a "lib talking point" I have made. Please point out anywhere I have advocated to defund the police. I have been very open about the closure of the southern border being the only notable accomplishment of Trump's second term thus far, and a scathing indictment of every administration (of both parties) over the last 40 years that said it could not be done effectively. This has also clearly had a direct role in the reduction in deaths from fentanyl (though the total number still remains higher in the US than any other country on earth), ironically, several border states are among the handful where deaths from fentanyl increased in 2025.

You're moving the goal posts even though you will claim you aren't. Saying "illegals are criminals" is perfectly true, it also is not what was originally being discussed. The assertion that " Crime did increase significantly under Biden" is not supported by statistics, regardless of who the perpetrators are. Your post is effectively your admission there are no statistics to back up the assertion, but it definitely happened despite that because of reasons.

Making up supposed positions I take based on 0 evidence (other than i disagree with you on a singular point, therefore I must also hold every other opinion you disagree with) is intellectually lazy and a laughable strawman to build up in a post where you accuse me of lacking critical thinking skills.

---

As stated - The crime wave of illegal immigration, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden. That's a fact jack.

---

A declaratory statement about a single type of crime, a trend in substance abuse and a general statement of "drugs" does not contradict the statement that there was not a general crime waive perpetrated by immigrants as some in this thread have stated / implied (and I note that in several instances there was no attempt to differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants). Well done ignoring everything in my post that contradicts your over-simple conclusion of convenience so that you are still "right".

Fentanyl deaths peaked in 2023 and then feel sharply in 2024 back to near pre-Covid levels. Is that also due to Biden?

---

As stated - The crime wave of illegal immigration, human trafficking, sexual assault, fentanyl deaths, and drugs certainly increased under Biden.

overall stats - we have no way of knowing how greatly immigrants impacted crime, because the largest crime areas do not report that info. We do know mass immigration impacts the citizenry and reduces wages and employment opportunities - especially when combined with the incentives of a nanny state like the US. What we also know - the crime that is directly attributable to immigrants went up, way up.

---

Said differently, there are no stats to back up my position, but I am sure of it. Also immigrants may have impacted other people and caused them to commit crimes (a position for which there is no support I have been able to find, but alas) so even non-immigrant crime is immigrants fault. That is certainly a position you can take, I guess.

And maybe elect a Nazi representative! Graham Platner might be out but this does not mean the Left won't try again.