Never expected to see an opinion by Laura Bush in the Washington Post, but here it is, and she doesn't like the Trump/Sessions immigration policy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/laura-bush-separating-children-from-their-parents-at-the-border-breaks-my-heart/2018/06/17/f2df517a-7287-11e8-9780-b1dd6a09b549_story.html?utm_term=.993f78533215

And pls don't reply that this policy is the Democrats fault. Laura, a classy first lady if there ever was one, knows better, and you should too.

It is a terrible policy and I don't know what the solution is to handle the complicated issue when people break the law. But it is ignorant to ignore the fact that this was the policy in place during the Obama administration. This is a failure by both parties, which tends to be the case for most of the major issues we face. But yes, please keep playing the two-party game and just blame the other party for all of the problems we have and nothing will get done.

I agree that it's terrible when children get separated from their parents because their parents have committed one or more crimes and have to suffer the consequences, but where is all of the weeping and gnashing of teeth over the children of actual citizens that get separated from their parents every day in the USA? Those children also aren't responsible for their parents' actions, but we don't hear a word of concern from the libs or anyone else (like Laura Bush) about those kids. The hard truth is and always will be that a person that enters the USA illegally is an illegal alien and therefore by definition a criminal - regardless of whatever their motivation was in coming here. Yes, again, it's bad for their kids, but no worse than it is for the child of a citizen criminal that is being incarcerated.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

---

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Johnny Bear said:

---

I agree that it's terrible when children get separated from their parents because their parents have committed one or more crimes and have to suffer the consequences, but where is all of the weeping and gnashing of teeth over the children of actual citizens that get separated from their parents every day in the USA? Those children also aren't responsible for their parents' actions, but we don't hear a word of concern from the libs or anyone else (like Laura Bush) about those kids. The hard truth is and always will be that a person that enters the USA illegally is an illegal alien and therefore by definition a criminal - regardless of whatever their motivation was in coming here. Yes, again, it's bad for their kids, but no worse than it is for the child of a citizen criminal that is being incarcerated.

---

They want something to be outraged about because they think it will win their party some votes. They do this while knowing for a fact that they weren't outraged about it when their party endorsed it.

The thing they don't understand anymore is that we live in an age of ease of access to information and people can see right through their BS.

Their outrage now backfires on them.

bubbadog said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

---

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

---

Triggered

Doc Holliday said:

---

Triggered

---

I don't think belly laughs were what you meant to trigger.

illegal entry = misdemeanor

illegal RE-ENTRY = Felony

contrario said:

---

It is a terrible policy and I don't know what the solution is to handle the complicated issue when people break the law. But it is ignorant to ignore the fact that this was the policy in place during the Obama administration. This is a failure by both parties, which tends to be the case for most of the major issues we face. But yes, please keep playing the two-party game and just blame the other party for all of the problems we have and nothing will get done.

---

Actually the statute existed during not only Obama's administration but also Bush's, however this was not the policy of either of those administrations. There is discretion as to how something like this would be implemented administrations of both parties until Trump handled their discretion similarly. Trump himself handled it similarly to how they both did until the past few months. Putting hispanic kids in mass in internment camps frankly really is unprecedented. Keep in mind this is also without due process. These kids are not getting adlitems appointed etc. there arent any hearings etc.

PartyBear said:

---

contrario said:

---

It is a terrible policy and I don't know what the solution is to handle the complicated issue when people break the law. But it is ignorant to ignore the fact that this was the policy in place during the Obama administration. This is a failure by both parties, which tends to be the case for most of the major issues we face. But yes, please keep playing the two-party game and just blame the other party for all of the problems we have and nothing will get done.

---

Actually the statute existed during not only Obama's administration but also Bush's, however this was not the policy of either of those administrations. There is discretion as to how something like this would be implemented administrations of both parties until Trump handled their discretion similarly. Trump himself handled it similarly to how they both did until the past few months. Putting hispanic kids in mass in internment camps frankly really is unprecedented. Keep in mind this is also without due process. These kids are not getting adlitems appointed etc. there arent any hearings etc.

---

So were the photos from pre-2016 fabricated? And the stories from pre-2016 fake news?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

It blows my mind how people don't (or refuse to) understand that this is really for the safety of the children in the grand scheme of things. You separate the children from where ALL the adults are being held. It's the same reason why we don't put juveniles into actual prisons. Would you want to keep your 5 year old daughter in the same locked room as 50+ potential rapists, child traffickers, murderers, abusers, etc.?

---

Have you traveled the Texas Border? Especially Big Bend

bubbadog said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Triggered

---

I don't think belly laughs were what you meant to trigger.

---

It's hard to tell what will trigger some people.

If Doc or a few other posters had posted the exact same thing, quash would have called it triggered. So there's that.

Good article that seems to cover things fairly.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents

Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

---

Allow them to come in legally and this won't happen. Restricting where someone can and can't live and work, thus preventing them from pursuing a better life for themselves and their families, based upon where they were born is immoral.

contrario said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

contrario said:

---

It is a terrible policy and I don't know what the solution is to handle the complicated issue when people break the law. But it is ignorant to ignore the fact that this was the policy in place during the Obama administration. This is a failure by both parties, which tends to be the case for most of the major issues we face. But yes, please keep playing the two-party game and just blame the other party for all of the problems we have and nothing will get done.

---

Actually the statute existed during not only Obama's administration but also Bush's, however this was not the policy of either of those administrations. There is discretion as to how something like this would be implemented administrations of both parties until Trump handled their discretion similarly. Trump himself handled it similarly to how they both did until the past few months. Putting hispanic kids in mass in internment camps frankly really is unprecedented. Keep in mind this is also without due process. These kids are not getting adlitems appointed etc. there arent any hearings etc.

---

So were the photos from pre-2016 fabricated? And the stories from pre-2016 fake news?

---

I'm not sure what photos you are referring to. As I said this is happening in mass. I'm sure there were some detentions and seperations before but not huge numbers and they were returned. Not kids being taken for bath and then never being heard from again. Just that tactic alone should sound familiarly horrible.

You do a good job by the way being a Trumper but trying to cloak it like you are not and that Trumpism has been bipartisan ideas and policies up until Trump. It hasnt been. Trumpism hasnt even been the GOP's real ideas and policies until now.

PartyBear said:

---

contrario said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

contrario said:

---

It is a terrible policy and I don't know what the solution is to handle the complicated issue when people break the law. But it is ignorant to ignore the fact that this was the policy in place during the Obama administration. This is a failure by both parties, which tends to be the case for most of the major issues we face. But yes, please keep playing the two-party game and just blame the other party for all of the problems we have and nothing will get done.

---

Actually the statute existed during not only Obama's administration but also Bush's, however this was not the policy of either of those administrations. There is discretion as to how something like this would be implemented administrations of both parties until Trump handled their discretion similarly. Trump himself handled it similarly to how they both did until the past few months. Putting hispanic kids in mass in internment camps frankly really is unprecedented. Keep in mind this is also without due process. These kids are not getting adlitems appointed etc. there arent any hearings etc.

---

So were the photos from pre-2016 fabricated? And the stories from pre-2016 fake news?

---

I'm not sure what photos you are referring to. As I said this is happening in mass. I'm sure there were some detentions and seperations before but not huge numbers and they were returned. Not kids being taken for bath and then never being heard from again. Just that tactic alone should sound familiarly horrible.

You do a good job by the way being a Trumper but trying to cloak it like you are not and that Trumpism has been bipartisan ideas and policies up until Trump. It hasnt been. Trumpism hasnt even been the GOP's real ideas and policies until now.

---

Same old Bona Fide Bear despite attempt at rebranding.

Booray said:

---

As I understand it, the current problems come from the administration's decision to end "catch and release." For decades we have released either arrestees or asylum seekers into the population. If those cases ended up with a deportation order, there was a good chance that parent and child would be separated at the time of the deportation. In addition, in the minority of cases where we did not release an arrestee or asylum seeker, the government entered into a consent decree to maintain the children of the incarcerated person in the "least restrictive" manner, also usually meaning separation from a parent or both parents. By ending catch and release (the Jeff Sessions' zero-tolerance policy) we have greatly multiplied the number of separations and almost infinitely multiplied the number of separations where there has been no finding of guilt. If I am wrong about any of that factually, I am sure someone will tell me.

Assuming I have the basic background right, there are a couple of points worth noting.

First, catch and release allowed us to largely avoid forced, no or little-notice separations, but at the cost of seeing the immigration laws were often not enforced. That was the "policy" under the past three presidents at least. The Trumpets' argument that family separation was existing law or policy and the President is just enforcing it is an intentional distortion of the truth, otherwise known as a lie. Almost universally the United States was avoiding forced separations, particularly before conviction or denial of asylum.

Second, ending catch and release is not by itself intellectually abhorrent. President Trump made the idea a centerpiece of his campaign and we elected him. When flight is an inherent part of a crime, "release" becomes more problematic. For asylum seekers, there is a great potential for abuse of the system by people who say they are seeking asylum when in reality they are just seeking a better life.

Third, the real problem in my mind is not what the administration has done, but how it has done it. If you are going to end catch and release, you build an infrastructure that allows families to be treated humanely while in custody and you get hundreds more immigration judges, support staff and appointed lawyers to move the court cases at a rate much faster than what happens now. As with the first travel ban, it seems like those in the administration just woke up one day and decided--today is the day we are going to do a 180 on established policy. Lets see what happens. And what happens is a whole bunch of awful crap.

Fourth, if a wall would fix all of this, why don't we just get on the phone and find out when those Mexican wall payments will be getting here?

---

On the wall, my understanding is that the Mexico gofundme page has only raise $12 billion. They are $8 billion short. After the July election, we'll have it.

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

It blows my mind how people don't (or refuse to) understand that this is really for the safety of the children in the grand scheme of things. You separate the children from where ALL the adults are being held. It's the same reason why we don't put juveniles into actual prisons. Would you want to keep your 5 year old daughter in the same locked room as 50+ potential rapists, child traffickers, murderers, abusers, etc.?

---

Have you traveled the Texas Border? Especially Big Bend

---

I have been to Big Ben.

My farm is 1 mile from the Mexican border.

The 64 mile long wall separating El Paso from Juarez has been a huge success .

But you and other nut cases keep choosing to ignore this massive example of the success of border walls.

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

It blows my mind how people don't (or refuse to) understand that this is really for the safety of the children in the grand scheme of things. You separate the children from where ALL the adults are being held. It's the same reason why we don't put juveniles into actual prisons. Would you want to keep your 5 year old daughter in the same locked room as 50+ potential rapists, child traffickers, murderers, abusers, etc.?

---

100% correct

Some folks get all wrapped up in a 'feel good' snap response without examine the practical realities.

---

The irony is rich on this as that is exactly what the wall is intended to be for you folks.

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Build the wall and this won't happen.

It blows my mind how people don't (or refuse to) understand that this is really for the safety of the children in the grand scheme of things. You separate the children from where ALL the adults are being held. It's the same reason why we don't put juveniles into actual prisons. Would you want to keep your 5 year old daughter in the same locked room as 50+ potential rapists, child traffickers, murderers, abusers, etc.?

---

Have you traveled the Texas Border? Especially Big Bend

---

I have been to Big Ben.

My farm is 1 mile from the Mexican border.

The 64 mile long wall separating El Paso from Juarez has been a huge success .

But you and other nut cases keep choosing to ignore this massive example of the success of border walls.

---

Big Ben is in London, not on the Mexican border.

Walls work dude.

The El Paso Wall is one mile from my farm. Been a huge success .

Part of what is so irritating. Those of use who are intimately associated with the border and its problems get lectured by folks hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

Walls work