cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

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bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

The issue isn't if they're white or not. It's "Are they legally allowed to work?"

Meat packing and many food industries have used illegal labor.

We should make the workers legal.

tommie said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

The issue isn't if they're white or not. It's "Are they legally allowed to work?"

Meat packing and many food industries have used illegal labor.

We should make the workers legal.

---

Yes it is totally the issue.

The post was referring to Mexican maids and yard workers

The 'they do jobs white people won't do' which is clearly a ******** talking point

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

I find this statistical set hard to believe because I worked in a packing house in South Texas the summer before my freshman year at Baylor and over the next Christmas break and I can tell you that at least 80% were illegal and there were only 10 of us in the whole plant that spoke English. I didn't need a Spanish class at Baylor after working that job.

YoakDaddy said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

I find this statistical set hard to believe because I worked in a packing house in South Texas the summer before my freshman year at Baylor and over the next Christmas break and I can tell you that at least 80% were illegal and there were only 10 of us in the whole plant that spoke English. I didn't need a Spanish class at Baylor after working that job.

---

There are hundreds of meat packing plants in the midwest where the majority of workers are white

Green Bay Packers

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

I find this statistical set hard to believe because I worked in a packing house in South Texas the summer before my freshman year at Baylor and over the next Christmas break and I can tell you that at least 80% were illegal and there were only 10 of us in the whole plant that spoke English. I didn't need a Spanish class at Baylor after working that job.

---

There are hundreds of meat packing plants in the midwest where the majority of workers are white

Green Bay Packers

---

True. I wonder if it's broken down by area or region, but then again no business will report how many illegals they employ.

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

tommie said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

The issue isn't if they're white or not. It's "Are they legally allowed to work?"

Meat packing and many food industries have used illegal labor.

We should make the workers legal.

---

Yes it is totally the issue.

The post was referring to Mexican maids and yard workers

The 'they do jobs white people won't do' which is clearly a ******** talking point

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

Waco1947 said:

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fadskier said:

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JusHappy2BeHere said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

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JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

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JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

---

ll

If you've read what MS13 does, "infest" may be too mild a word.

---

which one of those 5 year olds do you think is MS-13?

sometimes in your zeal to attack both sides equally you say some really stupid stuff

---

Where in that tweet was the reference to 5-year-olds?

---

is your position that no 5 year olds have been taken?

If you aren't paying attention to this then I can see how you would feel that way.... the Government controls what the reporters get to see and so far all they have gotten to see are Teenage boys....

they have seen no girls of any age and they have seen no boys under 13..... The entire narrative that Rump is trying to drive is that these brown people are scary... they're bringing drugs... they're rapists... and now they are all MS-13.

I might also ask you, when did anyone say that MS-13 doesn't suck and needs to be gotten rid of?

---

No, it is my position that the tweet quoted above did not have a reference in it to 5-year-olds.

---

and it did have reference to how this is all the Democrats fault which is complete bull *****... you could have latched on to that, but in true fassion you chose to attack the poster.... to your credit you are equal opportunity but you still find something to attack someone who posted something regardless of how inconsequential that minutia might be to the overall theme.... but hey.... you do you....

let's get back on point.... This President wants to make all Americans scared ****less of :"Others" those that aren't like you....probably not white, sometimes not Christian, probably not born here (and not above faking that one), maybe not the same sexual orientation as you.... mostly just not like the straight, older, white, male, born in America....

---

The poster did not discuss whether Democrats were responsible. The poster asked, if I recall, which of those 5-year-olds were MS 13. The argument that there are dangerous people who want to enter the United States to commit evil is a legitimate one, and a wall is not an unreasonable solution to help prevent that, even though I do not support Trump's wall.

---

The TWEET said it was all Democrats fault.... you could have latched onto that, or engaged with the thrust of the comment, and yet you took it in a way designed to attack the poster..... it's what you do....

never mind... you are unwilling to engage in any meaningful conversation....

---

I wasn't responding to Trump's tweet. I was responding to the idea that someone was making the argument there were 5-year-old gang members.

---

then you missed the point in every way you possibly could.... my point is yes, MS-13 is bad, but these children are not MS-13. that his tweet was a dog whistle to the rabid base that brown people are dangerous and they should be afraid of them.

according to a Border Patrol agent through NBC, less than 1% of those saying they are a family have been found to be faking it.

these are families.... buying into his crazy fear mongering just helps people to take their eye off the ball.

---

No one said brown people are dangerous. Stop lying.

---

Trump did. "Mexico is sending us rapists" That Racism Of Brown people.

---

Nope. Go back and read what he actually said. He did not refer to color....he referred to illegal people crossing the border. I know you desperately want to believe in racism, but it is just not true. Your heart is dark.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/32103/must-watch-border-patrol-agent-sets-record-amanda-prestigiacomo

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

Looks like you should've gotten some experience in labor management and H.O.P. instead of earning that Ph.D. in Butthurt.

D. C. Bear said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

tommie said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

The issue isn't if they're white or not. It's "Are they legally allowed to work?"

Meat packing and many food industries have used illegal labor.

We should make the workers legal.

---

Yes it is totally the issue.

The post was referring to Mexican maids and yard workers

The 'they do jobs white people won't do' which is clearly a ******** talking point

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Work requires work.

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

tommie said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

The issue isn't if they're white or not. It's "Are they legally allowed to work?"

Meat packing and many food industries have used illegal labor.

We should make the workers legal.

---

Yes it is totally the issue.

The post was referring to Mexican maids and yard workers

The 'they do jobs white people won't do' which is clearly a ******** talking point

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Work requires work.

---

Yes, so why won't these people work? They don't want more money for the work, they just quit.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

tommie said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

The issue isn't if they're white or not. It's "Are they legally allowed to work?"

Meat packing and many food industries have used illegal labor.

We should make the workers legal.

---

Yes it is totally the issue.

The post was referring to Mexican maids and yard workers

The 'they do jobs white people won't do' which is clearly a ******** talking point

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Work requires work.

---

Yes, so why won't these people work? They don't want more money for the work, they just quit.

---

Spoiled Americanos? The youth that is, in general?

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Yep uh huh

YoakDaddy said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

tommie said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Trump saying today he will sign an executive order to end family separations. So I guess his hands really weren't tied after all.

---

Well kind of.

Since he has been demonized about this and the democrats refused to even work on the matter, even though they are the most vocal about it, his hands kinda were tied.

Just like when the Repubs refused to work with Obama and he had to go the executive order on so many issues.

You can say his hands weren't tied, but if he wanted any action taken, he had to go it alone. So they kinda were.

So Trump similarly had to go it alone here, without any cooperation.

Call it flexible or call it having no grounding, Trump will change his mind about things.

---

Forrest, his administration unilaterally imposed the policy that led to the separation of families. He manufactured this crisis and then tried to say it was all Congress's fault and that they had to fix it.

It's even crazier to blame the Democrats in this case than to blame Congress as a whole. Trump's party controls both houses of Congress. The real problem is that the GOP is split, and there aren't enough GOP votes to pass an immigration bill. The moderate Republicans won't go along with the Goodlatte hard-line bill, and the hard-liners won't vote for the so-called compromise bill.

---

He manufactured the media coverage and outrage, but the the failure to deal with immigration, legal and illegal, has been an ongoing problem, fairly characterized as a crisis, for many years.

---

You assume there is a such thing as "immigration problem". There is not.

There's illegal immigration and there's people who don't like it. But it ain't a problem. It's a profit center for many.

When we said there was a drug problem, we started kicking down doors and confiscating homes and cars.

I've not seen one farm or factory confiscated, yet.

---

Many problems are profit centers. In fact, I am having a hard time thinking of a profit center that isn't related to a problem.

---

But we get a benefit from the labor. It's needed, too.

We have a will problem.

---

I know. Who will clean Laura's house and mow George's lawn?

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

I find this statistical set hard to believe because I worked in a packing house in South Texas the summer before my freshman year at Baylor and over the next Christmas break and I can tell you that at least 80% were illegal and there were only 10 of us in the whole plant that spoke English. I didn't need a Spanish class at Baylor after working that job.

---

Trump pardoned the orthodox Jew who was convicted of fraud for hiring almost 400 illegal workers in Iowa and paying them almost nothing

https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-commutes-prison-sentence-for-kosher-meatpacking-ceo-rubashkin/

D. C. Bear said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

---

In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

bubbadog said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

Looks like you should've gotten some experience in labor management and H.O.P. instead of earning that Ph.D. in Butthurt.

---

Butthurt = calling you out on your bull****

OK

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

cBUrurenthusism said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

More like: Who will keep the meat packing plants open?

---

Another total lie. There's virtually twice as many whites as hispanics in meat packing plants.

---

Looks like you should've gotten some experience in labor management and H.O.P. instead of earning that Ph.D. in Butthurt.

---

Butthurt = calling you out on your bull****

OK

---

It's all about the US becoming a minority-majority country,

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

---

In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

---

They should arrest the CEOs and HR directors.

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

---

In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

---

They should arrest the CEOs and HR directors.

---

That would certainly send a message. But neither Democratic nor Republican presidents have been willing to do that.

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

---

In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

---

They should arrest the CEOs and HR directors.

---

That would certainly send a message. But neither Democratic nor Republican presidents have been willing to do that.

---

Is it even a criminal offense to employee undocumented workers?

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

---

In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

---

They should arrest the CEOs and HR directors.

---

That would certainly send a message. But neither Democratic nor Republican presidents have been willing to do that.

---

Is it even a criminal offense to employee undocumented workers?

---

It is.

And federal prosecutors have a lot of weapons to go after these businesses, including fines and loss of business licenses. Those who show a "pattern" of employing illegals can face up to 6 months in jail and can even be prosecuted for racketeering under RICO.

But there's also a fair bit of latitude if employers can convince law enforcement that they made a good-faith effort to verify legal status before hiring. And the fines can be as small as $250 per worker, if they're even fined at all.

There hasn't been much emphasis, however, on punishing employers. Seems like if you were going to adopt a policy of zero tolerance toward the migrants, you'd match it on the employer side. Kill the demand, kill the supply.

At least one country gets it.

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

---

Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

---

Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

---

Don't ask, don't tell?

---

In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

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They should arrest the CEOs and HR directors.

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That would certainly send a message. But neither Democratic nor Republican presidents have been willing to do that.

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Is it even a criminal offense to employee undocumented workers?

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like the President did?

JusHappy2BeHere said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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bubbadog said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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bubbadog said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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bubbadog said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Yep. "White" immigrants will also do those housekeeping jobs.

I have a friend who builds houses and he is having a very hard time finding people willing to work. I am not sure why.

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Commercial contractors have told me that part of the problem is experience. You can find laborers, but if you're looking for skills like brick-laying, there just aren't enough American-born workers for the demand.

And in a lot of markets the construction boom has been going so strong for the past 5 years that it's hard to find enough workers even when you are hiring immigrants.

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Legal immigrants or illegal immigrants?

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Don't ask, don't tell?

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In some cases, apparently. Employers are supposed to have a federal I-9 verification form for all employees (US citizens included) showing that they are authorized to work. First thing ICE is supposed to do, by the book at least, when they conduct an inspection is to go to the personnel office and make the employer produce the documentation. (In practice, they've just been going in and rounding up all the Hispanics and then sorting it out.)

Some employers are more compliant than others. There was a big raid on a meat packing plant in East TN a week or two ago. ICE went in and rounded up anyone who looked Hispanic, about 100 workers in all. Several of them were US citizens who spent the afternoon in jail. Some of the others had green cards, but they were less than half of the total. The rest were illegals, and the majority of them were put on buses for Alabama and Louisiana that night.

That seems to be about the average I've read about from other raids. Hispanics may make up 1/3 to 1/2 of the employees, and about half of the Hispanics are here illegally.

I don't know whether that's a typical percentage for building trades, but I imagine it would be. Knowing contractors, I would also imagine that a higher percentage of them look the other way on documentation than you'd get from a large employer with an HR office. My next-door neighbor is one of the compliant ones. But it's hard for them, too. Last year, he agreed to hire an immigrant who didn't have his documentation with him but said he could produce it. He begged my neighbor to let him work for several days while he waited for his documents to arrive; he was sympathetic and let him work. When he couldn't produce any documents, my neighbor had no choice but not to pay him for the time he had worked, because that would create a record of a payment to an undocumented alien. An immigrant rights group came and picketed my neighbor's house, claiming he had stiffed the guy. I don't think that was my neighbor's intent, but such practice is pretty frequent among construction laborers; the employers use them for a pay period and then stiff them, knowing they have little to no recourse.

It looks to me like the feds are going mostly after the workers and not the employers. You're not going to shut off the supply of illegal workers unless you do something about the demand. I can't believe that the meatpacking plant in East Tennessee unwittingly employed 50 undocumented workers; I might believe that a handful slipped through the system but not 50. Are the feds making an example of employers like this as a deterrent to reduce demand among other companies? Not that I'm hearing. Instead, they separate children as a deterrent to those who make up the supply side of the equation.

The other inconvenient truth about illegal immigrants is that the agricultural sector would fall apart without them. According to this source, about 70 percent of the workers in the agriculture sector are foreign-born, and about half of them are illegal. (http://hungerreport.org/featured/immigrants-us-food-system/)

Several years ago, as you may recall, Alabama tried a draconian crackdown on illegal workers. They gave up for two reasons. For one, some dumbass state trooper arrested a German BMW executive who couldn't produce his papers, which created a huge embarrassment. But the main reason was the hue and cry from farmers, who complained that their crops were rotting in the field for lack of workers to harvest them.


UPDATE: Just saw a story that ICE had raided 4 meat packing plants in Ohio belonging to Fresh Mark, a company that the government once had held up as a model of compliance in employee verification. About 150 workers arrested today.

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They should arrest the CEOs and HR directors.

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That would certainly send a message. But neither Democratic nor Republican presidents have been willing to do that.

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Is it even a criminal offense to employee undocumented workers?

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like the President did?

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Yes, but since the president oversees justice, the president by definition cannot break the law.

riflebear said:

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At least one country gets it.

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The republicans should bring this same thing to a vote! Then they could label the democrats and republicans that vote against it as November targets!

Make the treasonous politicians come out of hiding