Kid chose to leave. Whining now because mommy and daddy won't pay for college.

This is to be expected when every single thing about our culture tells you that you need to be a victim. Victims are celebrated. They even get GoFundMe's to cover their college tuition. It's awesome.

Coke Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The kid was bad for being gay and refusing to attend a church that told him his gayness destined him to hell?

---

Me thinks you infer too much ...

His comments to the press about being "kicked-out" is what I was referring to. I would never call anyone "bad" for suffering with Same-Sex attraction. That's a tough cross to bear.

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

bearassnekkid said:

---

Kid chose to leave. Whining now because mommy and daddy won't pay for college.

This is to be expected when every single thing about our culture tells you that you need to be a victim. Victims are celebrated. They even get GoFundMe's to cover their college tuition. It's awesome.

---

Seth isn't whining. People who find the sort of religious faith that would cause a man to boot his son out of the house as a high school senior for being gay unfathomable, especially when the kid is an honors student with a fat scholarship to Georgetown, contributed $100K toward his college expenses. What he doesn't need, he'll contribute toward college expenses for other kids like himself. Seems pretty awesome to me.

One die sy not have to point to Islam as the source of religious violence against gay people. Christianity is rife with its own examples.

Coke Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The kid was bad for being gay and refusing to attend a church that told him his gayness destined him to hell?

---

Me thinks you infer too much ...

His comments to the press about being "kicked-out" is what I was referring to. I would never call anyone "bad" for suffering with Same-Sex attraction. That's a tough cross to bear.

---

Just trying to clarify what you meant. But it appears you may have made some inferences yourself. I re-read the article plus the much longer NBC News article that was linked in the story.

The writers describe what happened as the kid being kicked out. But he doesn't describe it that way in his quotes. He explains what happened, said the parents gave him an ultimatum, and that he left. He never says they kicked him out.

Second, it's not at all clear that we went to the media. It's not clear how the media discovered this story, but from the comment of his teacher/mentor, I suspect it wasn't through him. She said that she only found out about his situation weeks after he left home, during a time when he was sleeping on friends' sofas, and that he wasn't the type to try to get others to solve his problems for him. That doesn't sound like the kind of person who would run to the media. My hunch is that either the media became aware of the GoFundMe page, or that someone helping him brought the story to the media's attention.

He did agree to talk the media. What should he have told them that wouldn't have been "bad?" He refused to speak about his family?

The longer story also has more detail about how this all unfolded. The kid says his father discovered a photo on his cellphone of him with another boy (not some compromising photo) and concluded he was gay. The parents confronted him about it that night, grilled him until 4:30 a.m. and sent him to a quote-unquote Christian counselor who practiced a form of quack conversion therapy on him.

Not getting to go to Georgetown isn't exactly the same as not getting to go to college. That part was drama-queenie. He's a smart kid and will figure it out. I doubt that his parents ever will, nor will they understand the damage that parents like that will do to their gay kids. If anyone in this situation needed therapy, it's mom and dad.

fadskier said:

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This is yet another problem in today's America....just like minorities saying that they were harassed by cops or unarmed or whatever and then later shown to be false or like the waiter who said that he got no tip because he was labeled as a terrorist and then got tons of $$ on a go fund me page then later proved to be false, this could be yet another case of telling the press something in order to get something for nothing.

I think it was in Austin or Houston last year where a kid told the media that his parents got divorced and neither would pay for his college...gofundme page started and $50,000 later turned out to be a scam...parents weren't divorced, had money but were angry that their child got no grants.

Media should do a better job of research and vetting before putting this crap out...

---

Thankfully the local Waco story that was both of those (cop leaving racist note to hispanic waitress) was false and proven to be so quickly before it was able to become a major news story.

cowboycwr said:

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fadskier said:

---

This is yet another problem in today's America....just like minorities saying that they were harassed by cops or unarmed or whatever and then later shown to be false or like the waiter who said that he got no tip because he was labeled as a terrorist and then got tons of $$ on a go fund me page then later proved to be false, this could be yet another case of telling the press something in order to get something for nothing.

I think it was in Austin or Houston last year where a kid told the media that his parents got divorced and neither would pay for his college...gofundme page started and $50,000 later turned out to be a scam...parents weren't divorced, had money but were angry that their child got no grants.

Media should do a better job of research and vetting before putting this crap out...

---

Thankfully the local Waco story that was both of those (cop leaving racist note to hispanic waitress) was false and proven to be so quickly before it was able to become a major news story.

---

For every false example, there are five authentic ones that can be pointed to.

bubbadog said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The kid was bad for being gay and refusing to attend a church that told him his gayness destined him to hell?

---

Me thinks you infer too much ...

His comments to the press about being "kicked-out" is what I was referring to. I would never call anyone "bad" for suffering with Same-Sex attraction. That's a tough cross to bear.

---

Not getting to go to Georgetown isn't exactly the same as not getting to go to college. That part was drama-queenie. He's a smart kid and will figure it out. I doubt that his parents ever will, nor will they understand the damage that parents like that will do to their gay kids. If anyone in this situation needed therapy, it's mom and dad.

---

This isn't entirely fair. The kid declined other acceptances and had accepted Georgetown's offer of admission and their financial aid package. Colleges were no longer accepting applications; he'd either have to wait a year and go through another admissions cycle with no family support or sign up for a bunch of loans he probably wasn't sure he could repay while also having no place to live or do what one of my daughter's friend parents tried to force her to do when they decided the prestigious college that had accepted her and offered a really good financial aid package was too liberal and worldly: Work at Rack Room shoes and go to community college, so she could remain at their church and under their control. The school helped that girl gain access to loans and work-study to pay the rest of her tuition, and she left home at 18.

Dad timed his ultimatum when it would hurt his son the most by jeopardizing his future. And used Christianity to justify his action.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

There are so many things that can and do go wrong with our 'design'--genes that cause cancer and alzhiemers, extra cromosomes causing various types of intellectual and physical disabilities, chronic issues like cystic fibrosis or sickle cell anemia, a horrible death sentence like Huntington's disease. As the sister of a profoundly disabled brother who died at 32 with his multitude of issues never fully diagnosed or understood, I've seen the worst result of randomness and find that the miracle is that things go right so much of the time.

It seems like if you had a bright son whose only abnormality or disability was that he was gay, you'd be grateful he could live a normal, productive life and love him even if he decided to reject your religious judgment.

bubbadog said:

---

Just trying to clarify what you meant. But it appears you may have made some inferences yourself. I re-read the article plus the much longer NBC News article that was linked in the story.

The writers describe what happened as the kid being kicked out. But he doesn't describe it that way in his quotes. He explains what happened, said the parents gave him an ultimatum, and that he left. He never says they kicked him out.

Second, it's not at all clear that we went to the media. It's not clear how the media discovered this story, but from the comment of his teacher/mentor, I suspect it wasn't through him. She said that she only found out about his situation weeks after he left home, during a time when he was sleeping on friends' sofas, and that he wasn't the type to try to get others to solve his problems for him. That doesn't sound like the kind of person who would run to the media. My hunch is that either the media became aware of the GoFundMe page, or that someone helping him brought the story to the media's attention.

He did agree to talk the media. What should he have told them that wouldn't have been "bad?" He refused to speak about his family?

The longer story also has more detail about how this all unfolded. The kid says his father discovered a photo on his cellphone of him with another boy (not some compromising photo) and concluded he was gay. The parents confronted him about it that night, grilled him until 4:30 a.m. and sent him to a quote-unquote Christian counselor who practiced a form of quack conversion therapy on him.

Not getting to go to Georgetown isn't exactly the same as not getting to go to college. That part was drama-queenie. He's a smart kid and will figure it out. I doubt that his parents ever will, nor will they understand the damage that parents like that will do to their gay kids. If anyone in this situation needed therapy, it's mom and dad.

---

Thanks for clarifying more of the story. Apparently some of the media is running with a narrative that fits their desire for a more sensationalist story. It's not the first time the media has cherry picked the quotes that they want to tell the story that fits their needs.

Hopefully the kid has a good head on his shoulders and will excel in school despite his parents lack of tolerance.

Jinx 2 said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

The kid was bad for being gay and refusing to attend a church that told him his gayness destined him to hell?

---

Me thinks you infer too much ...

His comments to the press about being "kicked-out" is what I was referring to. I would never call anyone "bad" for suffering with Same-Sex attraction. That's a tough cross to bear.

---

Not getting to go to Georgetown isn't exactly the same as not getting to go to college. That part was drama-queenie. He's a smart kid and will figure it out. I doubt that his parents ever will, nor will they understand the damage that parents like that will do to their gay kids. If anyone in this situation needed therapy, it's mom and dad.

---

This isn't entirely fair. The kid declined other acceptances and had accepted Georgetown's offer of admission and their financial aid package. Colleges were no longer accepting applications; he'd either have to wait a year and go through another admissions cycle with no family support or sign up for a bunch of loans he probably wasn't sure he could repay while also having no place to live or do what one of my daughter's friend parents tried to force her to do when they decided the prestigious college that had accepted her and offered a really good financial aid package was too liberal and worldly: Work at Rack Room shoes and go to community college, so she could remain at their church and under their control. The school helped that girl gain access to loans and work-study to pay the rest of her tuition, and she left home at 18.

Dad timed his ultimatum when it would hurt his son the most by jeopardizing his future. And used Christianity to justify his action.

---

Well, what he said was, "I started to cry, because I realized there was no way that I could go to college..."

And that's not entirely true. He couldn't go to Georgetown in the fall, and he couldn't go to the other schools he had declined in the fall. But that didn't mean he couldn't go to college ever. He could have applied for deferred admission and then worked to raise the extra money. Or he could have sat out a year and worked. Or he could have gone to, gasp, community college for a semester while he tried to work out the rest. It's not like there were zero remaining options.

Of course, I also realize it's probably unfair to parse the words of an 18-year-old talking to the media in such a legalistic way.

On a separate note, the other thing that makes me shake my head at these parents is how they could NOT know their kid is gay. I mean, even living in their little Baptist Bubble. There were 3 photos of him in the story (graduation photo, photo with swim coach, and casual photo of him dressed for his interview). All three of them immediately set off my Gaydar. Are they really that im-bubbled? I need to find out their contact info and sell them some *****

The young man is defiant towards his father, yet wants the father to come up with money. Sorry, kid.

I would probably pay for his college, though.

Welcome back, Jinx.

fadskier said:

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I would definitely not kick my child out. However, I can understand the parents point of view about worshiping together. Although I currently attend a southern baptist church, I don't agree with every interpretation of the Bible that has been presented...but I won't at any church I attend. You have to learn to ignore what you don't agree with OR the family could worship together in their home.

I raised my kids in a southern baptist church. One fell in love with a girl of a different denomination and although that denomination believes/does things differently, I just told him that I am glad he's going to church.

Proverbs 22:6

---

No, I don't understand their attitude. Suicide can be a result. They look stupid too.

Jack and DP said:

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The young man is defiant towards his father, yet wants the father to come up with money. Sorry, kid.

I would probably pay for his college, though.

Welcome back, Jinx.

---

Spparently "the kid" is willing to pay the price. I would be defiant toward a racist parent too. There are all kinds of legitimacy for defiance.

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

Not all species, there are many that display homosexual behavior. Kinda puts the lie to the design argument.

quash said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

Not all species, there are many that display homosexual behavior. Kinda puts the lie to the design argument.

---

No more than it puts the lie to evolution.

Coke Bear said:

---

Couple of quick points ...

• Jinx 2 - Your Thread title/question is a misleading as the boy's misrepresentation/lie to NBC News. The boy told the news that he was kicked out. Sadly, the article does not correct this until the father's comment, which was buried at the end of the article.

• "I started to cry because I realized there was no way that I could go to college," - what a load of B.S! Get a student loan. Get a job. Dave Ramsey would have no mercy for him. You're a valedictorian. Figure it out, snowflake. Many, MANY more kids have gone to school with NO support and made it. I paid entirely for my college education.
• Georgetown is a private, Catholic college. Of course, now it is Catholic in namesake only. Heaven forbid that kid have to take a religion or Christian morality course. He won't enjoy being told that while having Same-Sex Attracting isn't a sin, acting on it is.
• I would not kick my kid out for having Same-Sex Attraction. I would make sure that they understand that they are called to live a chaste life, just like ALL of us are called to do.
• Finally, I have told my kids that while they live under my roof, they will attend mass. I will never force them to take Communion, but they are required to go to mass each week.

---

Same here....but I also told mine that under NO circumstances will I ever pay anything if they choose to go to Texas A&M. If they want to go to school there, they're on their own.

YoakDaddy said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Couple of quick points ...

• Jinx 2 - Your Thread title/question is a misleading as the boy's misrepresentation/lie to NBC News. The boy told the news that he was kicked out. Sadly, the article does not correct this until the father's comment, which was buried at the end of the article.

• "I started to cry because I realized there was no way that I could go to college," - what a load of B.S! Get a student loan. Get a job. Dave Ramsey would have no mercy for him. You're a valedictorian. Figure it out, snowflake. Many, MANY more kids have gone to school with NO support and made it. I paid entirely for my college education.
• Georgetown is a private, Catholic college. Of course, now it is Catholic in namesake only. Heaven forbid that kid have to take a religion or Christian morality course. He won't enjoy being told that while having Same-Sex Attracting isn't a sin, acting on it is.
• I would not kick my kid out for having Same-Sex Attraction. I would make sure that they understand that they are called to live a chaste life, just like ALL of us are called to do.
• Finally, I have told my kids that while they live under my roof, they will attend mass. I will never force them to take Communion, but they are required to go to mass each week.

---

Same here....but I also told mine that under NO circumstances will I ever pay anything if they choose to go to Texas A&M. If they want to go to school there, they're on their own.

---

Ha! I went one better than that. Told one of my kids that he'd be disowned if he went to A&M. He wasn't quite sure if I was serious. I wasn't quite sure either. I might've done it.

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

Not all species, there are many that display homosexual behavior. Kinda puts the lie to the design argument.

---

No more than it puts the lie to evolution.

---

Not really. Fits just fine. What are you thinking of?

Jinx 2 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

There are so many things that can and do go wrong with our 'design'--genes that cause cancer and alzhiemers, extra cromosomes causing various types of intellectual and physical disabilities, chronic issues like cystic fibrosis or sickle cell anemia, a horrible death sentence like Huntington's disease. As the sister of a profoundly disabled brother who died at 32 with his multitude of issues never fully diagnosed or understood, I've seen the worst result of randomness and find that the miracle is that things go right so much of the time.

---

Your 2nd paragraph and 3rd paragraph are contradictory.

If homosexuality must have some "benefit" or else it would have been "selected" out . . . . then kindly tell me the benefit of cancer, alzhiemers, and chromosomal disorders "causing various types of intellectual and physical disabilities." Since, you know, those things haven't been selected out either.

Adult male refuses to live with Parents because of the rules they have in place for him to stay. If he wasn't gay and the same rule was in place, is this a story?

In regards to the dad telling him: "He's allowed to live here as long as he worships the same way we worship."

That's a little ambiguous. If he's saying go to church and remain involved in the fellowship the we always have, then that's obviously ok.

If he's saying "you can live here if you worship the same way we worship, which means stop being gay", then that's not realistic.

bearassnekkid said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

There are so many things that can and do go wrong with our 'design'--genes that cause cancer and alzhiemers, extra cromosomes causing various types of intellectual and physical disabilities, chronic issues like cystic fibrosis or sickle cell anemia, a horrible death sentence like Huntington's disease. As the sister of a profoundly disabled brother who died at 32 with his multitude of issues never fully diagnosed or understood, I've seen the worst result of randomness and find that the miracle is that things go right so much of the time.

---

Your 2nd paragraph and 3rd paragraph are contradictory.

If homosexuality must have some "benefit" or else it would have been "selected" out . . . . then kindly tell me the benefit of cancer, alzhiemers, and chromosomal disorders "causing various types of intellectual and physical disabilities." Since, you know, those things haven't been selected out either.

---

That's a good question for another thread. Some problems are actually CAUSED by selection. Sickle cell anemia results from an adaptation that enables people in zones where malaria is common to be more resistant to it. Issues such as Huntington's Disease have probably persisted because they don't manifest until adulthood, after people have started having children. Some result from inbreeding, like Tay Sachs, which affects Ashkenazi jews. With cystic fibrosis, both parents have to be carriers; that's hard to figure out.

And some several disorders, or in my brother's case, clusters of disorders (he had both an extra cromosome and cromosomal abornormalities along with physical abnormalities) are a randam event.

There's a lot of randomness, and our increasing ability to identify who carries disorders like Huntington's, cystic fibrosis and Tay Sachs may result in their being selected out via a more deliberate method. There's also the point that evolution doesn't mean bad adaptions won't occur and recur; it helps ensure that helpful ones will also occur and recur to insure the continuance of the species going forward. That's not a strategy to ensure individual survival but, rather, the survival of the species as a whole.

The point where we probably disagree is that there is a Plan or a Purpose. I don't believe there is, and I believe that imbues us with greater responsibility for our fates and the fate of all life on earth, not less. We are doing a very poor job of stewarding the environment that created us. The cost for that could be our own extinction.

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Some people don't view same-sex attraction as a 'cross' but as a naturally occuring variation. As is their right in any nation that touts separation of church and state.

---

First, science has not established what causes Same-sex attraction. Blindness, deafness, malformations, etc., are naturally occurring. These are considered crosses to bear.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Same-sex attraction as 'sin" or a "cross to bear" is a religious belief--a very bigoted one, IMO, and not one all Christian churches share.

---

I never called it a sin to have Same-sex attraction. I will argue all day that it is a cross to bear. No one wakes up upon discovery and says, "YEAH, I'm Gay!" Most struggle for years, if not a lifetime.

Humans are designed to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is how all species grow, prosper, and evolve. Same-sex attraction is against the natural law.

As Christians, we are called to love ALL people. I do my best to do so. That doesn't mean that I have to love the behaviors of all people.

---

Not all species, there are many that display homosexual behavior. Kinda puts the lie to the design argument.

---

No more than it puts the lie to evolution.

---

Not really. Fits just fine. What are you thinking of?

---

The evolution of sex is explained, by various theories, in terms of its costs and benefits to reproduction. That's the "purpose" of sex, figuratively speaking. The fact that non-procreative sexual behaviors exist doesn't disprove any of those theories. The case is no different if one posits a designer with a literal purpose.

Jinx 2 said:

---

You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

---

First, sorry to hear that your brother and family had to suffer the loss of life at an early age.

...

Please substitute the word "evolved" for "designed". Either way, human reproductive systems have evolved to be complimentary. You can't have babies without a sperm and an egg.

All I meant with "designed" is that "Tab A fits into Slot B."

I'll echo the thoughts of the other poster with respect to benefit ... blindness and deafness have been around for ages. I can't see the benefit of that.

Finally, science hasn't found a "gay" gene. Since we don't know what causes same-sex attraction, I can't agree with us being able to "breed" it out of the human race.

Coke Bear said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

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First, sorry to hear that your brother and family had to suffer the loss of life at an early age.

...

Please substitute the word "evolved" for "designed". Either way, human reproductive systems have evolved to be complimentary. You can't have babies without a sperm and an egg.

All I meant with "designed" is that "Tab A fits into Slot B."

I'll echo the thoughts of the other poster with respect to benefit ... blindness and deafness have been around for ages. I can't see the benefit of that.

Finally, science hasn't found a "gay" gene. Since we don't know what causes same-sex attraction, I can't agree with us being able to "breed" it out of the human race.

---

I wouldn't call it an evolutionary benefit. But it is a persistent natural variation -- key word being "natural."

I read of some research a while back suggesting that homosexuality isn't genetic but is caused by hormone variations in the mother at or near the time of birth. So it could be both natural and non-evolutionary.

fadskier said:

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I raised my kids in a southern baptist church. One fell in love with a girl of a different denomination and although that denomination believes/does things differently, I just told him that I am glad he's going to church.

Proverbs 22:6


That is great, my In-Laws who where a different denomination than me, the moment my wife said, YES, she would marry me, they kicked her out of their house and refused to go to our wedding.

The gay kid isn't the only this has happened to. Unlike the gay kid though, they actually kicked her out, THE DAY she said yes.

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Coke Bear said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

---

First, sorry to hear that your brother and family had to suffer the loss of life at an early age.

...

Please substitute the word "evolved" for "designed". Either way, human reproductive systems have evolved to be complimentary. You can't have babies without a sperm and an egg.

All I meant with "designed" is that "Tab A fits into Slot B."

I'll echo the thoughts of the other poster with respect to benefit ... blindness and deafness have been around for ages. I can't see the benefit of that.

Finally, science hasn't found a "gay" gene. Since we don't know what causes same-sex attraction, I can't agree with us being able to "breed" it out of the human race.

---

I don't think there is a "gay gene," but you're right that we don't know what causes some people to be gay, bisexual or transgender.

Being gay is such a persistent natural variation that I wonder if there's some sort of a benefit--although, given the treatment of gay people in certain societies throughout history, I can't imagine what that might be, unless it's beneficial to have some men and women whose sensibilities are more on the spectrum with people of the opposite sex.

My issue with some factions of Christianity's treatment of gay people is they believe someone would choose to be gay--or, among the more enlightened, that being gay is a 'cross' or a special test for those people, and their only option is to remain celibate or try to redirect their sexuality toward the opposite sex. In the 1990s, a young couple at my church and two work colleagues were divorced because all 3 wives realized the man was gay, and neither the men nor the women in these marriages had felt fulfilled by their sexual relationship. One man had two children; he has now been married to a man for 15 years. At least the other couples were childless. It would have been better for everyone involved--especially the women and children hurt by these divorces--had these men acknowledged that they were gay rather than following the directive of their church to marry a woman.

cinque said:

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cowboycwr said:

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fadskier said:

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This is yet another problem in today's America....just like minorities saying that they were harassed by cops or unarmed or whatever and then later shown to be false or like the waiter who said that he got no tip because he was labeled as a terrorist and then got tons of $$ on a go fund me page then later proved to be false, this could be yet another case of telling the press something in order to get something for nothing.

I think it was in Austin or Houston last year where a kid told the media that his parents got divorced and neither would pay for his college...gofundme page started and $50,000 later turned out to be a scam...parents weren't divorced, had money but were angry that their child got no grants.

Media should do a better job of research and vetting before putting this crap out...

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Thankfully the local Waco story that was both of those (cop leaving racist note to hispanic waitress) was false and proven to be so quickly before it was able to become a major news story.

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For every false example, there are five authentic ones that can be pointed to.

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Please provide the study or article you pulled this stat from. TIA

No, I would not "kick him out" for being gay. Why drive the kid to self loathing.
I wonder what Mom has to day?

bubbadog said:

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Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

---

First, sorry to hear that your brother and family had to suffer the loss of life at an early age.

...

Please substitute the word "evolved" for "designed". Either way, human reproductive systems have evolved to be complimentary. You can't have babies without a sperm and an egg.

All I meant with "designed" is that "Tab A fits into Slot B."

I'll echo the thoughts of the other poster with respect to benefit ... blindness and deafness have been around for ages. I can't see the benefit of that.

Finally, science hasn't found a "gay" gene. Since we don't know what causes same-sex attraction, I can't agree with us being able to "breed" it out of the human race.

---

I wouldn't call it an evolutionary benefit. But it is a persistent natural variation -- key word being "natural."

I read of some research a while back suggesting that homosexuality isn't genetic but is caused by hormone variations in the mother at or near the time of birth. So it could be both natural and non-evolutionary.

---

It looks like mothers of homosexual makes have higher fertility, so there is an evolutionary benefit.

And intelligent design is a critique, not a theory.

quash said:

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bubbadog said:

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Coke Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

You think humans are 'designed.'

I think we evolved, and that being gay--which has been a constant since the dawn of time--must have some benefit, or it would have been selected out.

---

First, sorry to hear that your brother and family had to suffer the loss of life at an early age.

...

Please substitute the word "evolved" for "designed". Either way, human reproductive systems have evolved to be complimentary. You can't have babies without a sperm and an egg.

All I meant with "designed" is that "Tab A fits into Slot B."

I'll echo the thoughts of the other poster with respect to benefit ... blindness and deafness have been around for ages. I can't see the benefit of that.

Finally, science hasn't found a "gay" gene. Since we don't know what causes same-sex attraction, I can't agree with us being able to "breed" it out of the human race.

---

I wouldn't call it an evolutionary benefit. But it is a persistent natural variation -- key word being "natural."

I read of some research a while back suggesting that homosexuality isn't genetic but is caused by hormone variations in the mother at or near the time of birth. So it could be both natural and non-evolutionary.

---

It looks like mothers of homosexual makes have higher fertility, so there is an evolutionary benefit.

And intelligent design is a critique, not a theory.

---

There's evidence that hormonal changes in mothers who've given birth to several males make homosexuality more likely in males born afterward. No evidence that I'm aware of shows any comparable effect in female children or any relationship to fertility.

Forest Bueller said:

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fadskier said:

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I raised my kids in a southern baptist church. One fell in love with a girl of a different denomination and although that denomination believes/does things differently, I just told him that I am glad he's going to church.

Proverbs 22:6


That is great, my In-Laws who where a different denomination than me, the moment my wife said, YES, she would marry me, they kicked her out of their house and refused to go to our wedding.

The gay kid isn't the only this has happened to. Unlike the gay kid though, they actually kicked her out, THE DAY she said yes.

---

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Forrest, didn't you end up helping to support them?