Sam Lowry said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Trump is paranoid.

---

Evidently not.

---

Cart, horse.

Florda_mike said:

---

GolemIII said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

Yeah right that is like last football season some idiot claiming the media is the enemy of Baylor because every Sunday they reported the score of our game.

---

They (the MSM) are the propaganda arm of the left. They are working tirelessly to promote actual socialism. They are promoting the very things we opposed throughout the Cold War ...mainly slavery of the people to the state. It's no overstatement to say they are enemies of the people in large part.

---

Yes we need cleansed of them too

They are the treasonous ones

---

Treason means something. Being biased is not treasonous, and the solution to speech you don't like is more speech, not "cleansing" those with whom you disagree.

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

Jinx 2 said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

You poor old knuckleheads don't realize how bad and embarrassing this is. I'm wondering if it's a response to Bob Woodward's book.

What it says is that members of Trump's administration realize he's dangerous and incompetent, and they're quietly working togetehr and at cross purposes with him, both to promote different agendas and initiatives and to keep his most distructive tendencies in check and 'thwart parts of his agenda."

Here's the subhead: "I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations."

An international paper has just published an article by a minion working for Trump to the effect that Trump isn't in control of the U.S. government; it's actually controlled by a confederacy of dunces hiding in plain sight in his administration.

That's embarrassing--and not just for Trump. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts.

---

Give us a reason why we should believe it?

---

Cause Jinky and Cinky say you a idget if you don't "just believe".

I feel sorry for them as hate for Trump has become their one true religion

---

I understand the unwavering support of some posters for Trump, but your support for him mystifies me.

Trump is everything you--and any other good (and I mean the literally) Christian man--are not: mean, petty, vengeful, destructive, vain and selfish. He never wanted to govern; he wanted the ego boost he got from the campaign rallies where he could get people to gleefully chant "Lock her up" about his opponent instead of discussing actual policy.

As for what he promised, what has he really delivered?

Two very conservative SCOTUS justices--check.

Health care better than Obamacare? No.

Jobs? Maybe. But coal isn't sustainable, the economy was already doing well, and on the job front we are heading for a hard landing within the next 5 years--a term too long for the American voter.

Tax cut. Only for the wealthy, and it came at the expense of the poor.

Fiscal responsibility? The national debt is skyrocketing because Trump and the GOP cut taxes but not spending. He and the Republicans have kicked the can down the road.

In the meantime, the White House has become a circus of bad behavior, departing staff members, secret recordings and now we find out that a committee of insiders on Trump's staff is actually governing the country and dictating policy because, well, Trump isn't capable of doing either by experience, intelligence or temperament.

Some of these guys are hopeless. They like Trump because he's like them or what they want to be: rich and arrogant and capable of saying f---- you to anyone. But you aren't. What about Trump keeps you in his camp?

---

Sorry Jinx, I was trying to be funny. I missed the mark. I didn't vote for Trump, but like Tiger Woods, who actually knows Trump, I have to have a modicum of respect for the office, and I don't hate Trump, his lack of morals rival many other Presidents we have seen, it's just that in today's social media world, we know all about his misdeeds.

I watched MSNBC for two hours last night, I saw frothing at the mouth loonies. Their hate for Trump is so palatable it is crazy. I mean they have no vision, for the blinders they wear. I know it makes them money and good for them, but these folks could easily be fooled into any scam.

I am no more in Trumps camp than I was in Bill Clintons, who I actually did vote for, or Obama's who had a cult of personality thing going.

What makes me not hate him? Since I'm not in his camp, 1) I don't hate anybody 2) Many of the downtrodden who were so worried about themselves having a future with Trump, are actually now thriving under the affects of Trumps economic policies. 3) Supreme Court justices are better with him.

I recall that we nearly had a military coup in the middle of a situation where we were as close to nuclear war as this nation and world has ever been. I wonder what an anonymous source that ran off to one of the papers would have penned at that time?

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Me, too. The American people didn't elect this little committee of insiders.

One accurate point Trump supporters have made repeatedly is that elections matter.

This implies they don't, at least not totally.

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Here is a truly bizarre column by an anonymous "senior official of the Trump administration" that claims both to be working for Trump and against Trump. The Times obviously realizes publishing a piece like this is going to piss a lot of people off for very different reasons, so they're apologizing up front.

My response: I don't want to hear your excuses for working for Trump and how you think your form of resistance is somehow helping America. If you work for the man, you're enabling his wholesale assault on the rule of law and hamhanded policy moves. It is, however, interesting do learn that the real "Deep State" are Trump officials who realize he doesn't know what the hell he's doing and who are trying to do stuff over, under and around him and behind his back. If the existence of such bureaucrats in the Trump administration isn't enough to invoke the 25th Amendment, what is?.

---

The existence of bureaucrats in government who try to work at cross purposes with others within an administration, even a president, does not make a case for the cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment, which is in place for times when a president is unable to discharge the duties of the office. You've come unhinged. You are basically calling for a coup.

---

I went back and read the 25th Amendment. Look at Section IV of the amendment. You may call it a coup, but it's in the Constitution. When the Vice President and majority of the cabinet, or a majority of Congress sign a written declaration that the president is unfit to discharge his duties, the VP becomes acting president.

If the president disagrees that he is unfit, he can send his own letter. Then if a majority of Congress or the cabinet stick by their original declaration, Congress decides the matter and can remove the president with a 2/3 vote in both houses.

I would note that invoking the 25th amendment in and of itself doesn't mean the removal of the president. It does create a process for removal that does not involve impeachment.

---

I read it, too. The 25th amendment says nothing about a president being "unfit." There is a substantive difference between someone being "unfit" to hold office (we have elections to settle that and, in extreme cases, impeachment) and someone being "unable" to discharge the duties of the office. Jinx is basically advocating removing the president for political reasons using a tool intended to allow the government to have an executive when the president is incapacitated.

Ignore the emoticon.

---

OK -- the actual wording is "unable to discharge the duties and powers." So let's go with that. Those words could be construed to mean physical disability. Had the 25th Amendment been around back then, the words would have been used to remove Woodrow Wilson after his debilitating stroke.

But the plain meaning of those words would not limit it to physical disability. If the president is unable to discharge his duties because he's gone all Captain Queeg, the 25th Amendment certainly could be applied. And if 2/3 of Congress agreed, I don't see how you call that a coup. They'd be following the Constitution.

---

The plain meaning of the words does not include "because we don't like his politics" under any reading.

---

The differences between Capt. Queeg and his senior officers might have been described as mere policy differences, in your telling of it.

Obviously, there are policy differences and competing agendas within all administrations. Different people vie for power and for the president's ear. Lincoln had his "team of rivals" whom he was able to manage.

What you seem to be poo-pooing as little more than business as usual is something much bigger. According to the writer, there were senior level people in the administration talking to each other about invoking the 25th Amendment. Not media talking heads. Not posters on chat boards. Not politicians from the other party. And, most significantly, not even career "Deep State" bureaucrats. These are people who Trump chose for himself and who serve at his pleasure. These are people who were chosen BECAUSE they share so many of his policy views. And, according to the author, the reason why these people are acting as the "adult day care center" that Bob Corker talked about is about more than differing views; it's about trying to deal with Trump's wild, hour-to-hour inconsistencies, incessant lying, lack of self-control and impulsive behavior (like his tweeting that public protest should be illegal or that the NYT committed treason). What's going on in this White House goes way beyond the usual jockeying for influence and power among advisers (such as we witnessed between, say, Rumsfeld-Cheney and Colin Powell-Condeleezza Rice).

It's not unprecedented for senior advisers to work around (and against) their boss. But look at the precedents. It happened after Wilson and FDR were physically incapacitated, and the truth was mostly kept from the public. To some extent it happened in the last year or two of Reagan's presidency, when his advancing dementia became worse. And it happened at the very end of Nixon's tenure, when the defense secretary feared he would launch a nuclear war to distract everyone from Watergate and told the military to ignore any such order that came from the White House.

Those were all very troubling times, especially the one with Nixon, who was not physically incapacitated but who could have been subject to removal under the 25th Amendment had it existed back then. The drafters of that amendment certainly had Nixon in mind, along with Wilson, FDR and Reagan.


If this anonymous op-ed were the only picture we'd been shown of the operations inside this White House, it might be easier to dismiss as the work of a "disgruntled employee." Unfortunately, however, it aligns with the other portraits we've seen. It reinforces Woodward's reporting -- which clearly relies on Trump insiders like Gary Cohn and Rob Porter, among others. It reinforces so much reporting that has been coming out of this leakiest of White Houses since almost the beginning. It reinforces people like Corker, who said that he can guarantee that the adult babysitting goes on every single day in that White House. Hell, it even reinforces Amarosa, who otherwise could be rightfully dismissed as the queen of climbers and self-promoters and whose word by itself means little. (Did you notice how Trump's phone conversation with Woodward, denying that anyone had told him Woodward wanted to interview him and then un-denying it over the course of the conversation, resembled Trump's implausible claim to Amarosa that she was fired without his knowledge or permission?) And, of course, it reinforces what we see and hear from Trump's own tweets and public statements.

What's amazing, when you look at it all together, is how people inside the administration have actually kept it all functioning somehow, and kept the public from seeing exactly how bad it really is in there. Even with all that has leaked out in the past year, it's a good bet that we don't yet know the half of it -- and may not until the whole cast leaves and starts writing their memoirs.

But maybe what's even more amazing is how Trump's supporters still want to pretend that nothing is seriously wrong -- and if it is, that's because of the media and the Deep State trying to undermine him. Nixon-level paranoia has infected the Trump base and the right-wing media, and it's not going to be a soft landing when they no longer can fall back on their self-delusions about what's happening in this administration.

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

---

Screed? Thanks for proving my point. You're the one who used the word "overthrowing" and agreed with the words "covert coup?" And you want to talk about emotionalism? Good god, man, get a grip on yourself (or maybe relax the one that you already have.)

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Me, too. The American people didn't elect this little committee of insiders.

One accurate point Trump supporters have made repeatedly is that elections matter.

This implies they don't, at least not totally.

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

---

Screed? Thanks for proving my point. You're the one who used the word "overthrowing" and agreed with the words "covert coup?" And you want to talk about emotionalism? Good god, man, get a grip on yourself (or maybe relax the one that you already have.)

---

You mean the same thing quash and jinx agreed with? Hmmmm.....

Forest Bueller said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

You poor old knuckleheads don't realize how bad and embarrassing this is. I'm wondering if it's a response to Bob Woodward's book.

What it says is that members of Trump's administration realize he's dangerous and incompetent, and they're quietly working togetehr and at cross purposes with him, both to promote different agendas and initiatives and to keep his most distructive tendencies in check and 'thwart parts of his agenda."

Here's the subhead: "I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations."

An international paper has just published an article by a minion working for Trump to the effect that Trump isn't in control of the U.S. government; it's actually controlled by a confederacy of dunces hiding in plain sight in his administration.

That's embarrassing--and not just for Trump. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts.

---

Give us a reason why we should believe it?

---

Cause Jinky and Cinky say you a idget if you don't "just believe".

I feel sorry for them as hate for Trump has become their one true religion

---

I understand the unwavering support of some posters for Trump, but your support for him mystifies me.

Trump is everything you--and any other good (and I mean the literally) Christian man--are not: mean, petty, vengeful, destructive, vain and selfish. He never wanted to govern; he wanted the ego boost he got from the campaign rallies where he could get people to gleefully chant "Lock her up" about his opponent instead of discussing actual policy.

As for what he promised, what has he really delivered?

Two very conservative SCOTUS justices--check.

Health care better than Obamacare? No.

Jobs? Maybe. But coal isn't sustainable, the economy was already doing well, and on the job front we are heading for a hard landing within the next 5 years--a term too long for the American voter.

Tax cut. Only for the wealthy, and it came at the expense of the poor.

Fiscal responsibility? The national debt is skyrocketing because Trump and the GOP cut taxes but not spending. He and the Republicans have kicked the can down the road.

In the meantime, the White House has become a circus of bad behavior, departing staff members, secret recordings and now we find out that a committee of insiders on Trump's staff is actually governing the country and dictating policy because, well, Trump isn't capable of doing either by experience, intelligence or temperament.

Some of these guys are hopeless. They like Trump because he's like them or what they want to be: rich and arrogant and capable of saying f---- you to anyone. But you aren't. What about Trump keeps you in his camp?

---

Sorry Jinx, I was trying to be funny. I missed the mark. I didn't vote for Trump, but like Tiger Woods, who actually knows Trump, I have to have a modicum of respect for the office, and I don't hate Trump, his lack of morals rival many other Presidents we have seen, it's just that in today's social media world, we know all about his misdeeds.

I watched MSNBC for two hours last night, I saw frothing at the mouth loonies. Their hate for Trump is so palatable it is crazy. I mean they have no vision, for the blinders they wear. I know it makes them money and good for them, but these folks could easily be fooled into any scam.

I am no more in Trumps camp than I was in Bill Clintons, who I actually did vote for, or Obama's who had a cult of personality thing going.

What makes me not hate him? Since I'm not in his camp, 1) I don't hate anybody 2) Many of the downtrodden who were so worried about themselves having a future with Trump, are actually now thriving under the affects of Trumps economic policies. 3) Supreme Court justices are better with him.

---

I check out Fox last night and got Ted Cruz blaming everything on the Democrats. Also tried CNN--a bunch of talking heads and no substance. Is MSNBC Rachel Maddow? If so, it was only her talking, and I didn't want to hear a lecture. Trevor Noah had the best commentary:https://deadline.com/2018/09/trevor-noah-donald-trump-nyt-op-ed-resistance-inside-white-house-video-1202458108/

Them walls are closing in on the Trumps.

My heart is drowned

In the slow sound

Languorous and long

You know it's bad when FLOTUS actually calls someone out. Good for her unless Trump logged in to his wife's account which wouldn't surprise me.

cinque said:

---

High crimes and misdemeanors would be the more apropos rationale for removal, imo.

---

Like giving $150bln to a broke a$$ Iran after 2 separate judges ruled against the transfer.

I think that is the rationale you are looking for.

The govt of Iran had a budget of $70bln based on avg oil prices of $70/bbl in 2015. Oil averaged in the $40's during 2015 and magically Valerie Jarret and her henchman Obama/Kerry rounded up the 5+1 crew and removed most sanctions, greenlighted Nuclear Development and donated over 2 years of Federal Spending to the Peaceful Persians.

Is that a good rationale...aiding and abetting a sworn enemy of the US, Israel, and anything related to Britain?

Jinx 2 said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

You poor old knuckleheads don't realize how bad and embarrassing this is. I'm wondering if it's a response to Bob Woodward's book.

What it says is that members of Trump's administration realize he's dangerous and incompetent, and they're quietly working togetehr and at cross purposes with him, both to promote different agendas and initiatives and to keep his most distructive tendencies in check and 'thwart parts of his agenda."

Here's the subhead: "I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations."

An international paper has just published an article by a minion working for Trump to the effect that Trump isn't in control of the U.S. government; it's actually controlled by a confederacy of dunces hiding in plain sight in his administration.

That's embarrassing--and not just for Trump. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts.

---

Give us a reason why we should believe it?

---

Cause Jinky and Cinky say you a idget if you don't "just believe".

I feel sorry for them as hate for Trump has become their one true religion

---

I understand the unwavering support of some posters for Trump, but your support for him mystifies me.

Trump is everything you--and any other good (and I mean the literally) Christian man--are not: mean, petty, vengeful, destructive, vain and selfish. He never wanted to govern; he wanted the ego boost he got from the campaign rallies where he could get people to gleefully chant "Lock her up" about his opponent instead of discussing actual policy.

As for what he promised, what has he really delivered?

Two very conservative SCOTUS justices--check.

Health care better than Obamacare? No.

Jobs? Maybe. But coal isn't sustainable, the economy was already doing well, and on the job front we are heading for a hard landing within the next 5 years--a term too long for the American voter.

Tax cut. Only for the wealthy, and it came at the expense of the poor.

Fiscal responsibility? The national debt is skyrocketing because Trump and the GOP cut taxes but not spending. He and the Republicans have kicked the can down the road.

In the meantime, the White House has become a circus of bad behavior, departing staff members, secret recordings and now we find out that a committee of insiders on Trump's staff is actually governing the country and dictating policy because, well, Trump isn't capable of doing either by experience, intelligence or temperament.

Some of these guys are hopeless. They like Trump because he's like them or what they want to be: rich and arrogant and capable of saying f---- you to anyone. But you aren't. What about Trump keeps you in his camp?

---

Sorry Jinx, I was trying to be funny. I missed the mark. I didn't vote for Trump, but like Tiger Woods, who actually knows Trump, I have to have a modicum of respect for the office, and I don't hate Trump, his lack of morals rival many other Presidents we have seen, it's just that in today's social media world, we know all about his misdeeds.

I watched MSNBC for two hours last night, I saw frothing at the mouth loonies. Their hate for Trump is so palatable it is crazy. I mean they have no vision, for the blinders they wear. I know it makes them money and good for them, but these folks could easily be fooled into any scam.

I am no more in Trumps camp than I was in Bill Clintons, who I actually did vote for, or Obama's who had a cult of personality thing going.

What makes me not hate him? Since I'm not in his camp, 1) I don't hate anybody 2) Many of the downtrodden who were so worried about themselves having a future with Trump, are actually now thriving under the affects of Trumps economic policies. 3) Supreme Court justices are better with him.

---

I check out Fox last night and got Ted Cruz blaming everything on the Democrats. Also tried CNN--a bunch of talking heads and no substance. Is MSNBC Rachel Maddow? If so, it was only her talking, and I didn't want to hear a lecture. Trevor Noah had the best commentary:https://deadline.com/2018/09/trevor-noah-donald-trump-nyt-op-ed-resistance-inside-white-house-video-1202458108/

---

No it was a round table group of 4 people who had one facilitator, 3 men and one woman, they just bounced from person to person going on about how they were losing their country and the United States was losing it's identity, kinda apocalyptic talk going on and on. It was past prime time, no Maddow or anybody like that.

It's just that the tenor was so wrong. Get rid of Trump or we are going to lose our national identity was pretty much the theme.

I was kinda like a moth near a light, I couldn't quit watching, because none of the conversation was grounded in any sort of reality.

It was just wild eyed rifting, centered on the absolute gospel belief in the Sr. Administrator "letter to the editor" that has been going around.

I love the overreaction by everyone regarding an anonymous source.

If there was any meat on the proverbial bone, the deep throat wanna be would disclose more than a poorly worded opinion.

I used to have a security clearance and make can make some wild (and substantiated) claims about the Army and Air Force and how rear D was re-organized as an employment gap for specific minorities, genders, and sexual preferences. Clear violations of dozens of statutes that the President gave nod to over the consent of JCS.

riflebear said:

---

You know it's bad when FLOTUS actually calls someone out. Good for her unless Trump logged in to his wife's account which wouldn't surprise me.

---

Wow, if it gets a rebuke from Melania. She seems kinda like the ultimate live and let live kind of person.

riflebear said:

---

You know it's bad when FLOTUS actually calls someone out. Good for her unless Trump logged in to his wife's account which wouldn't surprise me.

---

Nah, too well worded for Trump.

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

You don't have to be a near Communist like Greewald to be opposed to a two track presidency. That's been my position since the release of the op ed.

DaveyBear said:

---

cinque said:

---

High crimes and misdemeanors would be the more apropos rationale for removal, imo.

---

Like giving $150bln to a broke a$$ Iran after 2 separate judges ruled against the transfer.

I think that is the rationale you are looking for.

The govt of Iran had a budget of $70bln based on avg oil prices of $70/bbl in 2015. Oil averaged in the $40's during 2015 and magically Valerie Jarret and her henchman Obama/Kerry rounded up the 5+1 crew and removed most sanctions, greenlighted Nuclear Development and donated over 2 years of Federal Spending to the Peaceful Persians.

Is that a good rationale...aiding and abetting a sworn enemy of the US, Israel, and anything related to Britain?

---

DaveyBear said:

---

cinque said:

---

NHigh crimes and misdemeanors would be the more apropos rationale for removal, imo.

---

Like giving $150bln to a broke a$$ Iran after 2 separate judges ruled against the transfer.

I think that is the rationale you are looking for.

The govt of Iran had a budget of $70bln based on avg oil prices of $70/bbl in 2015. Oil averaged in the $40's during 2015 and magically Valerie Jarret and her henchman Obama/Kerry rounded up the 5+1 crew and removed most sanctions, greenlighted Nuclear Development and donated over 2 years of Federal Spending to the Peaceful Persians.

Is that a good rationale...aiding and abetting a sworn enemy of the US, Israel, and anything related to Britain?

---

It's not possible to give me something that is already mine. And stop trying to change the subject about the unindicted co conspirator.

Forest Bueller said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Forest Bueller said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

You poor old knuckleheads don't realize how bad and embarrassing this is. I'm wondering if it's a response to Bob Woodward's book.

What it says is that members of Trump's administration realize he's dangerous and incompetent, and they're quietly working togetehr and at cross purposes with him, both to promote different agendas and initiatives and to keep his most distructive tendencies in check and 'thwart parts of his agenda."

Here's the subhead: "I work for the president but like-minded colleagues and I have vowed to thwart parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations."

An international paper has just published an article by a minion working for Trump to the effect that Trump isn't in control of the U.S. government; it's actually controlled by a confederacy of dunces hiding in plain sight in his administration.

That's embarrassing--and not just for Trump. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts.

---

Give us a reason why we should believe it?

---

Cause Jinky and Cinky say you a idget if you don't "just believe".

I feel sorry for them as hate for Trump has become their one true religion

---

I understand the unwavering support of some posters for Trump, but your support for him mystifies me.

Trump is everything you--and any other good (and I mean the literally) Christian man--are not: mean, petty, vengeful, destructive, vain and selfish. He never wanted to govern; he wanted the ego boost he got from the campaign rallies where he could get people to gleefully chant "Lock her up" about his opponent instead of discussing actual policy.

As for what he promised, what has he really delivered?

Two very conservative SCOTUS justices--check.

Health care better than Obamacare? No.

Jobs? Maybe. But coal isn't sustainable, the economy was already doing well, and on the job front we are heading for a hard landing within the next 5 years--a term too long for the American voter.

Tax cut. Only for the wealthy, and it came at the expense of the poor.

Fiscal responsibility? The national debt is skyrocketing because Trump and the GOP cut taxes but not spending. He and the Republicans have kicked the can down the road.

In the meantime, the White House has become a circus of bad behavior, departing staff members, secret recordings and now we find out that a committee of insiders on Trump's staff is actually governing the country and dictating policy because, well, Trump isn't capable of doing either by experience, intelligence or temperament.

Some of these guys are hopeless. They like Trump because he's like them or what they want to be: rich and arrogant and capable of saying f---- you to anyone. But you aren't. What about Trump keeps you in his camp?

---

Sorry Jinx, I was trying to be funny. I missed the mark. I didn't vote for Trump, but like Tiger Woods, who actually knows Trump, I have to have a modicum of respect for the office, and I don't hate Trump, his lack of morals rival many other Presidents we have seen, it's just that in today's social media world, we know all about his misdeeds.

I watched MSNBC for two hours last night, I saw frothing at the mouth loonies. Their hate for Trump is so palatable it is crazy. I mean they have no vision, for the blinders they wear. I know it makes them money and good for them, but these folks could easily be fooled into any scam.

I am no more in Trumps camp than I was in Bill Clintons, who I actually did vote for, or Obama's who had a cult of personality thing going.

What makes me not hate him? Since I'm not in his camp, 1) I don't hate anybody 2) Many of the downtrodden who were so worried about themselves having a future with Trump, are actually now thriving under the affects of Trumps economic policies. 3) Supreme Court justices are better with him.

---

I check out Fox last night and got Ted Cruz blaming everything on the Democrats. Also tried CNN--a bunch of talking heads and no substance. Is MSNBC Rachel Maddow? If so, it was only her talking, and I didn't want to hear a lecture. Trevor Noah had the best commentary:https://deadline.com/2018/09/trevor-noah-donald-trump-nyt-op-ed-resistance-inside-white-house-video-1202458108/

---

No it was a round table group of 4 people who had one facilitator, 3 men and one woman, they just bounced from person to person going on about how they were losing their country and the United States was losing it's identity, kinda apocalyptic talk going on and on. It was past prime time, no Maddow or anybody like that.

It's just that the tenor was so wrong. Get rid of Trump or we are going to lose our national identity was pretty much the theme.

I was kinda like a moth near a light, I couldn't quit watching, because none of the conversation was grounded in any sort of reality.

It was just wild eyed rifting, centered on the absolute gospel belief in the Sr. Administrator "letter to the editor" that has been going around.

---

Fox had a huge Deep State graphic up and Ted Cruz loudly blaming Democrats for this. That may seem credible for Fox viewers, but it was laughable as news coverage and explains why my 70-something friend, a lifelong Republican who recently retired from a long career as a geologist, has suddenly gone off the rails and declared war on everyone who won't pledge allegiance to Trump. I almost never watch network news, but I was home and genuinely curious to see how different networks would handle this, because it's a very big deal when an anonymous member of the president's administration publishes an op/ed in the New York Times, our major international newspaper, that clearly states the president is not only not totally in control of the goverment, but that his staff has quietly taken control away from him in various ways to prevent him from hurting the country.

The writer clearly meant that to be a comforting message. I found it anything but. It's subversion of democracy. And they clearly aren't capable of stopping all of Trump's bad moves and bad impulses--and a few members of his administration, like Jeff Sessions, have started some bad initiatives of their own, like kidnapping kids and losing them in a foster care system that clearly isn't working right. I'm all for guarding our borders and enforcing our immigration laws, but we allow people to seek asylum here, and we shouldn't take their kids away and then lose them if they attempt to exercise that right. That's a human rights violation for which we should, as a nation, face consequences, and it's one in which Trump and Sessions are implicated.

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

---

Screed? Thanks for proving my point. You're the one who used the word "overthrowing" and agreed with the words "covert coup?" And you want to talk about emotionalism? Good god, man, get a grip on yourself (or maybe relax the one that you already have.)

---

You mean the same thing quash and jinx agreed with? Hmmmm.....

---

You're the only one who went into hysterics when I made the argument that it wasn't a coup. Take a pill.

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

---

Screed? Thanks for proving my point. You're the one who used the word "overthrowing" and agreed with the words "covert coup?" And you want to talk about emotionalism? Good god, man, get a grip on yourself (or maybe relax the one that you already have.)

---

You mean the same thing quash and jinx agreed with? Hmmmm.....

---

You're the only one who went into hysterics when I made the argument that it wasn't a coup. Take a pill.

---

ATL has never gone into anything like hysterics. You, on the other hand, have launched into mind numbing, multipage dissertations on your hysterical freak outs. You're the pot calling the ball of cotton, black.

GolemIII said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

---

Screed? Thanks for proving my point. You're the one who used the word "overthrowing" and agreed with the words "covert coup?" And you want to talk about emotionalism? Good god, man, get a grip on yourself (or maybe relax the one that you already have.)

---

You mean the same thing quash and jinx agreed with? Hmmmm.....

---

You're the only one who went into hysterics when I made the argument that it wasn't a coup. Take a pill.

---

ATL has never gone into anything like hysterics. You, on the other hand, have launched into mind numbing, multipage dissertations on your hysterical freak outs. You're the pot calling the ball of cotton, black.

---

Well, he's not on here wishing death on other posters' kids or telling people to go play in traffic. I'll absolutely give him that. And he hasn't had to become ATL Bear III.

Alexandra Petri's hilarious take on the NYT op/ed:

When you think of the Resistance, you probably don't think of a group of senior Trump administration officials. But, you see, that is your mistake. That is exactly what I am, and I am resisting more than any of you, in your hats with your signs.

You may ask: Is President Trump a threat to this country and all that it stands for?
Absolutely. Yes.

We are all continually traumatized. I don't know how we are going to get through each week.

Trump is completely amoral. Furthermore, he has the memory of a gnat that has recently stunned itself by flying into a windshield. Furthermore, during Cabinet meetings, he is often to be found asking embarrassingly basic questions about things such as What Is The Federal Reserve, Though? and Why Can't We Just Assassinate People? and Why Are We in Afghanistan, Again? (Unlike his predecessors, wise and sensible men, he would not take "just because" as a suitable answer to the third question.) Also, for the first six months of the administration he referred to me as Shouty Dave for no reason I could discern; Dave is not my name, and I do not usually shout.

We leave every meeting having aged eight years. Horror turns our faces even whiter than usual (and they started off pretty white). I entered this administration a comparatively young man/woman; now I am broken and bent with sorrow, and my liver is giving out. Everything he says terrifies me. Every day he could usher in World War III. We tell him this, and it is like water off the back of a duck that has access to the nuclear codes.

I would like to publish this in a newspaper so that someone will read it and feel that there is a steady hand on the tiller, sometimes, except when obviously there isn't. If I get fired by tweet, please know that I stand proudly by these words. My name is Unnamed Trump Administration Official Who Wished To Remain on Background.

But the point is, do not worry. I am here, and I am secretly in charge, kind of, I hope, except when the president takes any action on the public stage over which I have no control, which is quite often, but not ALL the time. That is my point. Sometimes, the administration does something that I would like it to do, and we should all cling to that, like a mariner to a floating sign post that says "IMMIGRANTS NOT WELCOME AND LOOK AT ALL THIS DEREGULATION."

Trump is wrong to say that he is surrounded by a deep state of people working and conspiring to undermine his policies at every turn. He is surrounded by a steady state of people working and conspiring to undermine his policies at every turn, except for those that involve deregulation and stopping Certain People from coming here, which we are all for.

I am not part of the Resistance you think of when you think of the Resistance. I walk through marches with an expression of irritation, and I disdain women and pink hats. The two in tandem are more than I can bear. My biggest complaint about the Trump administration is that the president keeps changing his mind and is less efficient than could be hoped. I do feel that he has done a lot of good things, although I am also terrified that this nightmare straw man full of only bile and bad impulses will maybe do something bad. But he might not!

After all, I am there watching him, powerless to stop him unless he is not paying attention.

But I have been resisting as best I know how. I often knock papers off his desk to prevent him from signing them. Once I stuffed an entire memo in my mouth while his back was turned. Another day I knew that it would startle and confuse him to learn that there was such a person as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, so I ran through the White House devouring every newspaper I could see. One day he picked up a red phone and said, "I would like to Start World War III, please, I don't care with whom," and if it had not been for me on the other line pretending to be a dial tone, who can say what would have happened. It is these little things that make all the difference between the unimaginable chaos you see and an unimaginable worse chaos. Once in a meeting he became upset because I made a positive remark about John McCain, and we had to pretend that he had force-choked me to death. My limp form was carried out by aides. But fortunately the next day, he had forgotten, and I was able to keep my position. After Vice President Pence and his rabbit did something that bothered him, we told him that Pence had been sent to the cornfield. Sometimes I call his phone pretending to be the president of France so that he can yell at me and not our ally. He derailed the last meeting we had by making truck noises, and he would not stop even when asked nicely by several other senior officials who will also remain nameless. I am positive he thinks NAFTA is a naughty word for a body part and NATO is a kind of expensive fruit. Honestly, I don't know what he thinks. Sometimes I think his mind is just a loose marble rolling around and if he tilts his head to one side you can hear it. He spent a whole Cabinet meeting asking us what an updog was. Once he made Sean Spicer eat an entire chocolate cake.

The president is completely venal and displays all the worst excesses of the Bad Popes but also Henry VIII during his worst years. He is surrounded by spiders and wolves and other large predators. But I am also there! That is what I am trying to get at. I am there too, which should reassure you.

We should definitely invoke the 25th Amendment, I think, but then I think: Wouldn't it might be worth it if we got to deregulate just a little bit more and make immigrating to this country a little more difficult and painful? Of course it would. Right. We can all agree.

The point is, I think it is America's fault for letting this happen to it. We were, I think, asking for something like this. I wish more people were like McCain.

But don't worry. I am there. I keep thinking we should maybe say something, anonymously, but then I think, what if I just said something more, anonymously.

I am part of the real resistance: the Trump administration. That is what I have persuaded myself to think. Doesn't that reassure you?

bubbadog said:

---

GolemIII said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

I'm with this guy:

" Glenn Greenwald pointed out that while "Trump may be a threat" in his own right, "so is this covert coup" that seeks to impose its "own ideology with zero democratic accountability, mandate or transparency."

---

Agree, it is frightening and oddly gives credence to the idea of a "deep state". If you're set on "overthrowing Trump", do it at the ballot box.

---

Overthrow? Coup? Sounds a bit drama-queenie.

Trump has the power to fire anyone in his administration who he thinks is subverting him or is untrustworthy. He chose them all.

Even if a majority of the Cabinet want to invoke the 25th Amendment, they can't do it unless Pence agrees. And even if he agrees, it still takes 2/3 of the members of both houses of Congress. As someone pointed out, that's a higher bar than for impeachment.

A coup? That sounds as shrill as the MSNBC types.

---

What the hell are you talking about?

---

Your drama

---

I'm not the one writing 8 paragraph screeds, and responding to something that wasn't said. Stop projecting your BS emotionalism on me.

---

Screed? Thanks for proving my point. You're the one who used the word "overthrowing" and agreed with the words "covert coup?" And you want to talk about emotionalism? Good god, man, get a grip on yourself (or maybe relax the one that you already have.)

---

You mean the same thing quash and jinx agreed with? Hmmmm.....

---

You're the only one who went into hysterics when I made the argument that it wasn't a coup. Take a pill.

---

ATL has never gone into anything like hysterics. You, on the other hand, have launched into mind numbing, multipage dissertations on your hysterical freak outs. You're the pot calling the ball of cotton, black.

---

Well, he's not on here wishing death on other posters' kids or telling people to go play in traffic. I'll absolutely give him that. And he hasn't had to become ATL Bear III.

---

No one here wished death on other posters kids. As for his handle staying the same, he's super smart, but it takes both intelligence and a penchant for creative hyperbole laced ridicule to get multiple versions of your handle. ATL prefers to stay above the fray.