Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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cinque said:

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BTrue only among the Calvinist Catholics. If anybody should have stepped down, it was JPII for harboring and protecting the most prolific sexual predator and wanton criminal in Church history.

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Do you get paid commenting on other people's threads or just on the ones you originate ?

---

I thought you were part of the plan?

---

No...that's why I don't respond to threads created by 'cingue'.....you get paid .

Pennies per post admittedly....but it's still low rent.

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You lie and the truth is not in you.

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Spambot generated evasion

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You sin against the 8th commandment when you bear false witness against me.

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chuckle

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Laugh as you walk past the confessional knowing you have committed a sin of sacralige.

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Hope the spam bot manager got an extra nickel for this gem.

chuckle

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You're a liar who bears false witness against me repeatedly. Refusing to confess your hatefulness in reconciliation is a sin of sacralige.

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You are paid .....seeking to fill the emptiness in your life propagating leftists propaganda on various internet web sites .

Amusing at times but mostly pathetic

---

Surely you aren't receiving Communion outside of a state of grace. You can't until you stop lying and bearing false witness against me.

---

You are paid....fact.

Obviously per any response, on any thread ...not merely on the leftists trash you originate .

So this is your last nickel from me ....you pathetic closet case

Welcome to 'ignore'.

---

You're a willful, shameless liar who bears false witness against me and then runs and hides.

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

Coke Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

[So what part of Christ's character are you invoking by praying for someone's death and calling upon other Catholic divinities to do likewise?

---

I'm not praying for his death. He's a man who's 82 and in ill-health. When he dies, I hope that it is peaceful.

St. Joseph, Mary's most-chaste spouse, is the patron Saint of a Happy (peaceful) Death. (Lower case "t") tradition states that Joseph passed-away peacefully with Mary and Jesus by his side.

TexasScientist said:

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[Didn't Francis appoint those 50% of Cardinal's through his divine power of apostolic appointment and succession?

---

Where have you read a Catholic source which states that the Pope has "divine power of apostolic appointment and succession"?

When selecting his cardinals, I'm sure he prays for guidance , just like many people do when they have an important decision.

---

I believe this is your statement:
"I would agree that he needs to be replaced. I pray for him a Happy Death. [St. Joseph, pray for us.]"
Reads to me like you your praying for his death. Isn't that saying you are praying for his death?

Isn't the laying on of hands by the Pope or a Bishop considered a divine transfer, a special conferring of divine authority?

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

Some people have too much pride to humble themselves and admit they are wrong

Some people have to much pride to humble themselves and admit they may need a Savior.

Sometimes, those are the same people.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

Infallibility means the pope is protected from teaching error in certain circumstances. It pertains to the office, not the man. No person is infallible.

Cardinals are created by decision of the pope with no ritual involved. It's basically as simple as the mayor declaring Hip Hop Day in Portland.

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

No. It is something that extends from his position, it is not inherent to holding the position.

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

I understand the point you are trying to make. When one gets underneath all of the theological language, it's man made constructs that determine outcomes. Many Catholics are quick to claim that the Holy Spirit guides much of what takes place in the Sistine Chapel during the election of the Pope, when in reality, it is very much a political process. Why else would so many of the faithful be upset with the Holy Spirit's guidance in the election of Francis?

It's always entertaining to watch non-Catholics explaining Catholic doctrine to Sam Lowry.

JXL said:

---

It's always entertaining to watch non-Catholics explaining Catholic doctrine to Sam Lowry.

---

There are a lot of poorly catechized Catholics.

JXL said:

---

It's always entertaining to watch non-Catholics explaining Catholic doctrine to Sam Lowry.

---

Sometimes entertaining......always hubris .

cinque said:

---

There are a lot of poorly catechized Catholics.

---

You are correct (thanks, Vatican II); however, Sam is not one of them.

Then again, there are many poorly learned Christians, Jews and Muslims.

The last 10 years have been better. We'll see what the future holds for the next generation of Catholics.

Go into a teen or young adult Sunday school class. Privately ask each one, 1) are you going to heaven? 2) why

I'm guessing you will get a bunch of "I think so" and "because I'm a good person."

Coke Bear said:

---

cinque said:

---

There are a lot of poorly catechized Catholics.

---

You are correct (thanks, Vatican II); however, Sam is not one of them.

Then again, there are many poorly learned Christians, Jews and Muslims.

The last 10 years have been better. We'll see what the future holds for the next generation of Catholics.

---

Steve Bannon is going to take care of educating young Catholics by teaching them conservatism.

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

Infallibility means the pope is protected from teaching error in certain circumstances. It pertains to the office, not the man. No person is infallible.

Cardinals are created by decision of the pope with no ritual involved. It's basically as simple as the mayor declaring Hip Hop Day in Portland.

---

Cardinals elect the pope. The pope appoints cardinals. The pope is infallible when speaking ex-cathedra (From the Chair) about faith and morals only.

Who bestows infallibility on the pope for such limited instances? The cardinals? And, why aren't infallible declarations of the pope the same as the mayor declaring Hip Hop Day in Portland? Isn't this really all contrived by man?

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

cinque said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

I understand the point you are trying to make. When one gets underneath all of the theological language, it's man made constructs that determine outcomes. Many Catholics are quick to claim that the Holy Spirit guides much of what takes place in the Sistine Chapel during the election of the Pope, when in reality, it is very much a political process. Why else would so many of the faithful be upset with the Holy Spirit's guidance in the election of Francis?

---

Exactly.

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other religion is man made, "contrived," and exploits their faithful. Every religious person believes all other religion is invalid except for their own, which they believe somehow has the right revelation. I believe the same, except I just add one more religion to the list of non-belief.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

TexasScientist said:

---

cinque said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

I understand the point you are trying to make. When one gets underneath all of the theological language, it's man made constructs that determine outcomes. Many Catholics are quick to claim that the Holy Spirit guides much of what takes place in the Sistine Chapel during the election of the Pope, when in reality, it is very much a political process. Why else would so many of the faithful be upset with the Holy Spirit's guidance in the election of Francis?

---

Exactly.

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other religion is man made, "contrived," and exploits their faithful. Every religious person believes all other religion is invalid except for their own, which they believe somehow has the right revelation. I believe the same, except I just add one more religion to the list of non-belief.

---

TS, there are millions of religious people all,over the world (Christians included) who BELIEVE God is too big, far beyond our understanding to be the sole property of one religion.

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

Infallibility means the pope is protected from teaching error in certain circumstances. It pertains to the office, not the man. No person is infallible.

Cardinals are created by decision of the pope with no ritual involved. It's basically as simple as the mayor declaring Hip Hop Day in Portland.

---

Cardinals elect the pope. The pope appoints cardinals. The pope is infallible when speaking ex-cathedra (From the Chair) about faith and morals only.

Who bestows infallibility on the pope for such limited instances? The cardinals? And, why aren't infallible declarations of the pope the same as the mayor declaring Hip Hop Day in Portland? Isn't this really all contrived by man?

---

No, cardinals don't bestow infallibility. It is a grace or gift from the Holy Spirit.

TexasScientist said:

---

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other religion is man made, "contrived," and exploits their faithful.

---

This statement is a misunderstanding of Catholicism.

Jesus came to start a church. He did, with 12 people. One failed (Judas) before his death. After Jesus ascended into Heaven, the remaining apostle elected a replacement. After Pentecost, the church grew. It became necessary to create a structure to ensure that proper teachings were being transmitted. This happens with any organization. No entity, much less one with a billion people, can exist without an official structure and rules.

Jesus provided an acorn and the church has blossomed into a majestic oak.

TexasScientist said:

---

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other Every religious person believes all other religion is invalid except for their own, which they believe somehow has the right revelation. I believe the same, except I just add one more religion to the list of non-belief.

---

The Catholic church does NOT teach this. It clearly states that some truth can be found in ALL religions: Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Native American, etc.

Catholicism believes that she holds the fullness of truth and the fullness of grace (because we have all 7 sacraments that Jesus gave us.)

TexasScientist said:

---

cinque said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Infallibility applies 1) when you are pope and 2) when you speak ex cathedra.

Being ordained and being named a cardinal are different processes.

---

So, why does it only apply for 1 and 2? And doesn't the laying on of hands supposedly confer a divine recognition? Or, are these just manmade constructs and beliefs?

---

I understand the point you are trying to make. When one gets underneath all of the theological language, it's man made constructs that determine outcomes. Many Catholics are quick to claim that the Holy Spirit guides much of what takes place in the Sistine Chapel during the election of the Pope, when in reality, it is very much a political process. Why else would so many of the faithful be upset with the Holy Spirit's guidance in the election of Francis?

---

Exactly.

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other religion is man made, "contrived," and exploits their faithful. Every religious person believes all other religion is invalid except for their own, which they believe somehow has the right revelation. I believe the same, except I just add one more religion to the list of non-belief.

---

This is getting tiresome . You constantly credit your biases as fact .

Making less and less sense .

Coke Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other religion is man made, "contrived," and exploits their faithful.

---

This statement is a misunderstanding of Catholicism.

Jesus came to start a church. He did, with 12 people. One failed (Judas) before his death. After Jesus ascended into Heaven, the remaining apostle elected a replacement. After Pentecost, the church grew. It became necessary to create a structure to ensure that proper teachings were being transmitted. This happens with any organization. No entity, much less one with a billion people, can exist without an official structure and rules.

Jesus provided an acorn and the church has blossomed into a majestic oak.

TexasScientist said:

---

However, I take it a step further to point out that Catholicism, along with all other Every religious person believes all other religion is invalid except for their own, which they believe somehow has the right revelation. I believe the same, except I just add one more religion to the list of non-belief.

---

The Catholic church does NOT teach this. It clearly states that some truth can be found in ALL religions: Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Native American, etc.

Catholicism believes that she holds the fullness of truth and the fullness of grace (because we have all 7 sacraments that Jesus gave us.)

---

If I understand you correctly above, and from previous discussions with you and Sam, you believe that it is possible for adherents to other faiths to enter heaven apart from Catholic teachings. If my understanding of your belief is correct, do you believe that persons of other beliefs will all get to heaven by virtue of the crucifixion, regardless of a profession in Christianity?

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

TexasScientist said:

---

If my understanding of your belief is correct, do you believe that persons of other beliefs will all get to heaven by virtue of the crucifixion, regardless of a profession in Christianity?

---

It is by the virtue of Christ's resurrection that everyone has the possibility of entering heaven.

The normative method for entering heaven is thru the Catholic Church; however the Catechism states the following:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.


For others, the attached link is those who would like to read what the Church Fathers thought about Salvation Outside of the Church.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

You make incorrect statements about him, even after being given the truth, all the time. Do you do that as a defense of you faith or for some other reason. As a defense it is counterproductive.

quash said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

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I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

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Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

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Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

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Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

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You make incorrect statements about him, even after being given the truth, all the time. Do you do that as a defense of you faith or for some other reason. As a defense it is counterproductive.

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Dude....I like TS.

Unlike you he is intelligent.

And the Church requires no 'defense' on the internet.

Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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quash said:

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TexasScientist said:

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quash said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

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That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

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Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

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No. Not at all.

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Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

Coke Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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If my understanding of your belief is correct, do you believe that persons of other beliefs will all get to heaven by virtue of the crucifixion, regardless of a profession in Christianity?

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It is by the virtue of Christ's resurrection that everyone has the possibility of entering heaven.

The normative method for entering heaven is thru the Catholic Church; however the Catechism states the following:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.


For others, the attached link is those who would like to read what the Church Fathers thought about Salvation Outside of the Church.

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By what authority other than consensus of clergy is this concept held to be true? On the one hand only Catholics can attain salvation, yet on the other it is not necessary to Catholic or Christian to achieve salvation. So, what is the purpose of the crucifixion for salvation, if salvation was/is attainable aside from the Catholic faith?

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

If my understanding of your belief is correct, do you believe that persons of other beliefs will all get to heaven by virtue of the crucifixion, regardless of a profession in Christianity?

---

It is by the virtue of Christ's resurrection that everyone has the possibility of entering heaven.

The normative method for entering heaven is thru the Catholic Church; however the Catechism states the following:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.


For others, the attached link is those who would like to read what the Church Fathers thought about Salvation Outside of the Church.

---

By what authority other than consensus of clergy is this concept held to be true? On the one hand only Catholics can attain salvation, yet on the other it is not necessary to Catholic or Christian to achieve salvation. So, what is the purpose of the crucifixion for salvation, if salvation was/is attainable aside from the Catholic faith?

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We do not believe only Catholics can attain salvation. The resurrection was for all of mankind .