Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

---

Just to be clear, your experience is valid but his is half bull*****

Religious elitism.

quash said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

---

Just to be clear, your experience is valid but his is half bull*****

Religious elitism.

---

Not accurate.....but even if it were...... still better ( and more fun) than agnostic mediocrity.

I'm not saying it's impossible that TS traveled to Europe and Latin America in the 16th century...but I'm skeptical.

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm not saying it's impossible that TS traveled to Europe and Latin America in the 16th century...but I'm skeptical.

---

Again, only Catholics get to have valid personal experiences?

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm not saying it's impossible that TS traveled to Europe and Latin America in the 16th century...but I'm skeptical.

---

chuckle

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm not saying it's impossible that TS traveled to Europe and Latin America in the 16th century...but I'm skeptical.

---

20th and 21st, as opposed to someone's 4th century mindset.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

If my understanding of your belief is correct, do you believe that persons of other beliefs will all get to heaven by virtue of the crucifixion, regardless of a profession in Christianity?

---

It is by the virtue of Christ's resurrection that everyone has the possibility of entering heaven.

The normative method for entering heaven is thru the Catholic Church; however the Catechism states the following:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.


For others, the attached link is those who would like to read what the Church Fathers thought about Salvation Outside of the Church.

---

By what authority other than consensus of clergy is this concept held to be true? On the one hand only Catholics can attain salvation, yet on the other it is not necessary to Catholic or Christian to achieve salvation. So, what is the purpose of the crucifixion for salvation, if salvation was/is attainable aside from the Catholic faith?

---

We do not believe only Catholics can attain salvation. The resurrection was for all of mankind .

---

Then why follow Catholicism? Just live a good life.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

---

Interesting, what documented empirically proven miracles have you seen first hand?

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm not saying it's impossible that TS traveled to Europe and Latin America in the 16th century...but I'm skeptical.

---

Again, only Catholics get to have valid personal experiences?

---

Not at all. I just question his interpretation of whatever it was he saw. The Church would never approve that sort of thing.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

---

Interesting, what documented empirically proven miracles have you seen first hand?

---

I have seen two miracles in my life. One was intensely personal and I'm not about to share it on this forum.

The other(s) was a parking lot full of ambulances at Sainte Anne du Beaupre ( outside of Quebec City ) ...with a couple of dozen invalids and desperately ill individuals being helped into the basilica.

After the service some ( not all ) walked out on their own .

No tv cameras , no fan fare , no hoopla .....no fees.

Saw this on 2 separate occasions.

Years ago they would hang the crutches and wheelchairs of some of the cases on the enormous columns in the basilica Some columns were almost completely covered . Last time I was there ( approx 10 years ago ) I didn't see anything on the columns .

Now let's hear about the personal details of what you saw .

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

---

Interesting, what documented empirically proven miracles have you seen first hand?

---

I have seen two miracles in my life. One was intensely personal and I'm not about to share it on this forum.

The other(s) was a parking lot full of ambulances at Sainte Anne du Beaupre ( outside of Quebec City ) ...with a couple of dozen invalids and desperately ill individuals being helped into the basilica.

After the service some ( not all ) walked out on their own .

No tv cameras , no fan fare , no hoopla .....no fees.

Saw this on 2 separate occasions.

Years ago they would hang the crutches and wheelchairs of some of the cases on the enormous columns in the basilica Some columns were almost completely covered . Last time I was there ( approx 10 years ago ) I didn't see anything on the columns .

Now let's hear about the personal details of what you saw .

---

In a Latin American city, I watched a Hispanic women, probably in her late 70's to early 80's, obviously from an impoverished background, crawl on her hands and knees. She had been crawling before I first say her. I watched crawl several blocks and across a plaza into a guilded cathedral to pay her nominal tithe. Who, other than clergy would put that into her mind that she would obtain some spiritual benefit from doing that?

Now your story is interesting. Do you have any more details or documentation you can refer someone to? I would imagine there would be something in the public record about such an event.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

quash said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Former infallible Pope Benedict blames the collapse of Catholic moral theology, the absence of God, and the 60's for the rampant sexual abuse of the Catholic clergy and the Catholic Church.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/04/11/pope-benedict-church-abuse-crisis-tied-to-homosexuality/3433465002/

---

That wrongly implies that he was infallible as pope. He only ever did that when speaking ex cathedra, which is rare for any pope. Less is more of you omit "infallible".

Then we could talk about the article and the lack of accountability.

---

Isn't the idea once infallible, always infallible?

---

No. Not at all.

---

Either you're infallible or your not.

---

My friend if you are determined to hate Catholics and Catholicism you should learn the details .

The Pope is 'infallible' only in a very rarely used format ....involving exceptionally narrow areas of doctrine.

---

I don't hate Catholics. I just point out that the organization is seriously flawed, is not transparent, exploits people, and is a man made organization whose focus is to protect and benefit the clergy.

---

Not fact...your opinion......expressed over and over again .

Meanwhile inform me which atheistic organization does anything approaching the volume of work ( world wide ) for the poor and forgotten as Catholic Charities.

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics. It seems to me the Church as an institution has a record of systemic abuse, cover up of abuse, and retribution. Additionally, it financially exploits people of impoverished countries preying upon their ignorance. How would you quantify the charitable work and expenditures of Catholic Charities (or their capacity for charitable work) as a percentage of the organization's financial assets and income in order to make any judgment about their charitable activities? The Church's finances are shrouded in secrecy with no transparency. Other non-religious charities are required to disclose their finances.

---

Of course you hate the Catholic Church.

You make unsubstantiated accusations constantly .

Link to proof the Church 'exploits' the poor ?

Again what do you atheists do to help the poor around the world to even 10% of the efforts of Catholic Charities ?


Again ....what is the point to your silliness ? Who around here constantly slams YOUR atheism?

---

Again, I don't hate Catholics (as individuals). You're missing my point. It is the Catholic Church as an institution that I have issue. Consider non religious charities if you want - atheists does not equate to being a charity. I give to non religious charities. Why does anybody post on this board, be it political or religious? I don't need a link to proof. I've seen first hand how the Church in Latin America (Europe also) exploits their parishioners, selling them absolution, praying their deceased family into heaven for a fee, charging them for prayers to be answered for a fee - convincing them to make pilgrimages for mythical spiritual benefits. I've seen elderly women crawl long distances to reach a cathedral in order to donate money they can ill afford in expectation of spiritual benefit. Yes, I think they are exploiting people.

---

Sorry ....but I call bull**** on at least half of what you claim to have seen.

I have hiked over 100 miles on the Way of Saint James in northern Spain, seen miracles first hand at Sainte Anne du Beaupre in Quebec and in the intensive care unit in Loveland Colorado.....been to dozens of cathedrals all over the world and dealt with hundreds of the homeless and mentally ill individuals provided for by Catholic Charities...

and have never seen one single instance of what you describe.

Nada

Something's eating at you my friend .....and it's not the Catholic Church .

---

Interesting, what documented empirically proven miracles have you seen first hand?

---

I have seen two miracles in my life. One was intensely personal and I'm not about to share it on this forum.

The other(s) was a parking lot full of ambulances at Sainte Anne du Beaupre ( outside of Quebec City ) ...with a couple of dozen invalids and desperately ill individuals being helped into the basilica.

After the service some ( not all ) walked out on their own .

No tv cameras , no fan fare , no hoopla .....no fees.

Saw this on 2 separate occasions.

Years ago they would hang the crutches and wheelchairs of some of the cases on the enormous columns in the basilica Some columns were almost completely covered . Last time I was there ( approx 10 years ago ) I didn't see anything on the columns .

Now let's hear about the personal details of what you saw .

---

In a Latin American city, I watched a Hispanic women, probably in her late 70's to early 80's, obviously from an impoverished background, crawl on her hands and knees. She had been crawling before I first say her. I watched crawl several blocks and across a plaza into a guilded cathedral to pay her nominal tithe. Who, other than clergy would put that into her mind that she would obtain some spiritual benefit from doing that?

Now your story is interesting. Do you have any more details or documentation you can refer someone to? I would imagine there would be something in the public record about such an event.

---

Did you talk to this woman ? How do you know she was tithing ? The vast majority of Catholics do not.

How do you know the clergy put anything in her head to do it ? I have seen many people crawl on their knees on the hundreds of stairs entering the Saint Joseph Oratory in Montreal . No one was tithing ....no one was talked into it .

I hiked 100 miles on the Way of Saint James ....met dozens of other people ( half were non Catholic) who hiked over 500 miles ( in some cases from Paris ). None were tithing...none were talked into it .

You seem to jump to negative conclusions where the Catholic Church is concerned . That's fine...we all have our particular grudges. But I also believe you are searching for something....hope you find it whatever it is .

There are several websites centered around Sainte Anne du Beaupre. Can always google them .

Peace

Here is the web site I found. Appears to be mostly about donating and tourism.

https://sanctuairesainteanne.org/en

TexasScientist said:

---

Here is the web site I found. Appears to be mostly about donating and tourism.

https://sanctuairesainteanne.org/en

---

Then keep looking .