Waco1947 said:

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My basic belief since I read Paul Tillich's "You are Accepted"
Richard Rohr confirms my belief in his quote:
"You can't make God love you one ounce more than God already loves you right now. You can go to church every day for the rest of your life. God isn't going to love you any more than God loves you right now.
You cannot make God love you any less, eithernot an ounce less. Do the most terrible thing and God wouldn't love you less. You cannot change the Divine mind about you! The flow is constant, total, and 100 percent toward your life. God is for you.
We can't diminish God's love for us. What we can do, however, is learn how to believe it, receive it, trust it, allow it, and celebrate it"
That's ... that's ... that's all, Folks

---

Even if this is true, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. The real question is how much do you love God not how much does he love you? And if you love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, how would you show this in your daily life?

Waco1947 said:

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My basic belief since I read Paul Tillich's "You are Accepted"
Richard Rohr confirms my belief in his quote:
"You can't make God love you one ounce more than God already loves you right now. You can go to church every day for the rest of your life. God isn't going to love you any more than God loves you right now.
You cannot make God love you any less, eithernot an ounce less. Do the most terrible thing and God wouldn't love you less. You cannot change the Divine mind about you! The flow is constant, total, and 100 percent toward your life. God is for you.
We can't diminish God's love for us. What we can do, however, is learn how to believe it, receive it, trust it, allow it, and celebrate it"
That's ... that's ... that's all, Folks

---

So you reject the Bible, but accept the words of Richard Rohr as perfect & complete. That explains a lot of your posts.

BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

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My basic belief since I read Paul Tillich's "You are Accepted"
Richard Rohr confirms my belief in his quote:
"You can't make God love you one ounce more than God already loves you right now. You can go to church every day for the rest of your life. God isn't going to love you any more than God loves you right now.
You cannot make God love you any less, eithernot an ounce less. Do the most terrible thing and God wouldn't love you less. You cannot change the Divine mind about you! The flow is constant, total, and 100 percent toward your life. God is for you.
We can't diminish God's love for us. What we can do, however, is learn how to believe it, receive it, trust it, allow it, and celebrate it"
That's ... that's ... that's all, Folks

---

Even if this is true, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. The real question is how much do you love God not how much does he love you? And if you love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, how would you show this in your daily life?

---

Living a life of gratitude as a disciple
1) Losing my life for others that I and they may live
2) Mt 26 Being at the hand of Jesus who feeds, clothes, heals, visits, etc the least of these.

Waco1947 said:

---

My basic belief since I read Paul Tillich's "You are Accepted"
Richard Rohr confirms my belief in his quote:
"You can't make God love you one ounce more than God already loves you right now. You can go to church every day for the rest of your life. God isn't going to love you any more than God loves you right now.
You cannot make God love you any less, eithernot an ounce less. Do the most terrible thing and God wouldn't love you less. You cannot change the Divine mind about you! The flow is constant, total, and 100 percent toward your life. God is for you.
We can't diminish God's love for us. What we can do, however, is learn how to believe it, receive it, trust it, allow it, and celebrate it"
That's ... that's ... that's all, Folks

---

God loves each and every person.
God hates each and every sin.
God can love a person despite their lifestyle while still hating said lifestyle.
In our striving to be holy as God is holy, we should strive to do the same.

Romans 1:16ff would be a good passage on this topic.

BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

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My basic belief since I read Paul Tillich's "You are Accepted"
Richard Rohr confirms my belief in his quote:
"You can't make God love you one ounce more than God already loves you right now. You can go to church every day for the rest of your life. God isn't going to love you any more than God loves you right now.
You cannot make God love you any less, eithernot an ounce less. Do the most terrible thing and God wouldn't love you less. You cannot change the Divine mind about you! The flow is constant, total, and 100 percent toward your life. God is for you.
We can't diminish God's love for us. What we can do, however, is learn how to believe it, receive it, trust it, allow it, and celebrate it"
That's ... that's ... that's all, Folks

---

Even if this is true, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. The real question is how much do you love God not how much does he love you? And if you love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, how would you show this in your daily life?

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In my opinion the bolded is a lie. Of course we cannot earn Gods love however.


Psalm 11:5 puts it bluntly: God hates wicked people. "The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence" (Psalm 11:5). God hates their ways (Proverbs 15:9), their thoughts (Proverbs 15:26), their worship (Proverbs 15:8), their actions (Proverbs 6:18), and their evil deeds (Psalm 5:5). He singles out as a special object of his hatred the blasphemous deeds of the Nicolaitans, those who seduced God's people with idolatry and sexual immorality. "Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate" (Revelation 2:6).

The thing is God is just. How can he love evil people and the evil deed they do. Everybody is sinful, 100% of us, but some are evil.

It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.

So no, do the most terrible thing imaginable from an evil heart, especially to one of these "little ones", and God does not love what you do, from many verses here, it seems the opposite.

Said more tersely, "The LORD preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy" (Psalm 145:20)

And who is God sending these admonitions and warning to. ME. We all fall short, we have to check ourselves. We have to check if our intentions are right. We have to repent of our evil ways. We have to turn our hearts back to Him. We have to trust in the authentic Christ.

1. Is the whole bible inspired by God? If not, how do you choose which parts to follow and ignore?
I believe with my whole heart that the Bible contains and is the inspired word of God. With that knowledge, I also know that the Bible we have was transcribed over and over again by human hands, and the transcribers were subject to error, and limited in their own knowledge and understanding as are we all. I know that the Bible is in part an account of God's ongoing and relentless search for Humanity, a humanity that continues to discover in every generation and age, a God that surpasses their understandings of devotion, justice, love.
I believe that inspiration can be found throughout the Bible, though I admit there are sections that I prefer.
2. Do you believe Jesus is a divine figure or was simply a man?
Jesus was born of a woman, and was without question, a man. His exact relationship to God is way above my pay grade, though I am see him as he says he was, the anointed one, the Messiah, Christ.
3. Can you lose your salvation?
If we truly have free will, it is conceivable, but one would also suggest was the there an authentic salvation in the first place. Whether possible or not, I do not think of God as holding back the saving hand that has been offered. If we slide, it is our own choice.
4. What is your view on the rapture?
I do not follow the concept, and think this is possibly a misunderstanding of some very difficult Greek. Not that I am all that worked up about it. Whether I die or am carried up, I go to God. Where is the worry?
5. Do you believe in original sin?
A pastor of mine pointed out that we only need to look at 2 year old children to see support for original sin. I would have preferred he wasn't looking at my children when he said it...
6. Do you think the world is roughly 6,000 years old?
Nah, much, much older. Remember, when we talk of creation we are also talking the heavens. Galaxies could not exist in a 6,000 year old universe.
7. Do you believe in evolution?
That simpler organism tend to develop to more complex ones? Yes.
8. Do you believe in the Trinity?
Yes, but I don't understand it. I'm trying, but its not easy for me.
9. Do you believe in the miracles of the bible?
Yes. Even Josephus --the Roman Historian not at all sympathetic to Jesus, referred to him as a wonder worker. I believe Jesus provided healings. Did he walk on water?--not an important question to my faith.
10. Why do you believe in Christianity?
Yes. To paraphrase the words of Bill Veeck on Baseball. You know there has to be something real about Christianity, for otherwise the Christian Leaders, and elders would have killed it off centuries ago. I am a follower because of how I was raised, and ultimately, by the people that have been placed in front of me, helping to guide my path.

Nancy Pelosi is "praying for Donald Trump and praying for the people of the United States." Bless her heart.

Waco1947 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

My basic belief since I read Paul Tillich's "You are Accepted"
Richard Rohr confirms my belief in his quote:
"You can't make God love you one ounce more than God already loves you right now. You can go to church every day for the rest of your life. God isn't going to love you any more than God loves you right now.
You cannot make God love you any less, eithernot an ounce less. Do the most terrible thing and God wouldn't love you less. You cannot change the Divine mind about you! The flow is constant, total, and 100 percent toward your life. God is for you.
We can't diminish God's love for us. What we can do, however, is learn how to believe it, receive it, trust it, allow it, and celebrate it"
That's ... that's ... that's all, Folks

---

Even if this is true, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. The real question is how much do you love God not how much does he love you? And if you love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, how would you show this in your daily life?

---

Living a life of gratitude as a disciple
1) Losing my life for others that I and they may live
2) Mt 26 Being at the hand of Jesus who feeds, clothes, heals, visits, etc the least of these.

---

Maybe some missed my response

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Nancy Pelosi is "praying for Donald Trump and praying for the people of the United States." Bless her heart.

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You can scorn another's thoughts. That's a difference of opinion.

But you shouldn't scorn another's prayers or doubt their sincerity. That's bigotry and partisanship and just downright arrogance. Who are you to say your prayers, Trump's or anyone else are better/more pleasing to God, than the prayers of Nancy Pelosi?

But I'm guilty the bad deed I've criticized you for as far as Trump is concerned. He thinks HE'S the supreme being and he expects his minions to lie for him, cheat for him, violate the law for him, plead guilty for it and hold him harmless.

I honestly didn't think it was possible that I'd have more disgust and contempt for a politician after Cheney and Rumsfeld frogmarched us into the "quagmire" (Cheney's word, not mine) of Iraq by lying about intelligence and then tortured people. But Trump has literally Trumped them.

His naked self-interest is hurting the country. I don't want to even THINK about him praying. And I still think God gets to decide whose prayers He hears and how he responds and not you, Trump, Pence or Brother Bob.

TexasScientist said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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I was looking at another thread where a poster was talking about his interpretation of the bible. This got me thinking about what do others here think about some popular questions people are asked about Christian faith. What are your specific beliefs to these questions?

1. Is the whole bible inspired by God? If not, how do you choose which parts to follow and ignore?
2. Do you believe Jesus is a divine figure or was simply a man?
3. Can you lose your salvation?
4. What is your view on the rapture?
5. Do you believe in original sin?
6. Do you think the world is roughly 6,000 years old?
7. Do you believe in evolution?
8. Do you believe in the Trinity?
9. Do you believe in the miracles of the bible?
10. Why do you believe in Christianity?

Also, is there any other question that you would like to know about other believers here that I have left off?

---

1. How do you define "inspired"? As in, God controlled the writers' pens (kind of like the special glasses Joseph Smith was given by the angel Moroni to write the book of Mormon), where it's as if the writers of various books were taking dictation? Or that the writers simply sought to write, to the best of their ability and comprehension, their understanding of the history of the Jews and Jesus' life? I have lots of questions beyond who wrote various books and why, including how books were selected for the canon, how they were edited early on and by whom, and how translation affects our understanding. I think the Bible is a powerful collection of history, poetry, proverbs and meditations. I don't think it's inerrant; no human construct is. I do think it contains lots of truth, lots of thought provoking stories and raises more questions than it answers.

2. I no longer believe in a divine God. I think this life is all we have. I believe Jesus had a singular vision for living in community. When I did believe, I believed that the Old Testament was, in part, a story about God, a parent, trying to figure out why his children--men and women--were so troublesome and willful, and that Jesus was God's way of actually living in human flesh and experiencing life as a physical thing--eating, sleeping, exhaustion, childhood, adolescence, even desire, so He would understand us better and be better able to lead us.

3. When I moved in the 8th grade, my best friend's mother asked me if I was saved. I told her "yes." She was in doubt of this because I was a Methodist, and Faye's family was Baptist. Since I believe this life is all we have, I believe we are our own salvation and that of our children. The world is what we leave them and how we raise them. I am sick about the world we are leaving our children--warming, rising seas, a massive extinction event. We have been poor stewards under any scenario or regime of beliefs.

4. I don't believe in an afterlife.

5. I'm a lot more comfortable with Maslow's hierarchy of needs than I am with original sin.

6. Lord, no.

7. I don't think evolution is something you "believe in." It's a fact, and it's occurring now. People choose NOT to believe facts. Like evolution.

8. The trinity makes sense to me--God the all powerful/all knowing, Jesus who experienced life and death to share and understand human experience, and the kernel of spirit that is in us that makes us believe there's a higher purpose and a supreme being.

9. I don't discount miracles. Nor do I think belief in them, or belief in the "inerrancy" of the Bible, should be some sort of litmus test for faith of any sort. I suspect they often have practical explanations. I suspect the body has more power to heal itself than we know or understand--the placebo effect. I also believe that self-healing power isn't unlimited because we're physical beings.

10. I'm turning this question around: Why don't I believe in Christianity? So many reasons it's hard to list them all here. Here we are, a minor planet in a single galaxy in a huge universe circling an ordinary star, where life evolved and where humans have been so successful we are about to smother the planet. Christianity seems self-important and prideful to me. I don't believe we are God's chosen people or the saved. I think we are highly evolved life forms that don't realize our interdependence on other life forms and our planet at the peril of future generations. I don't think the scifi books where humans travel easily among the stars and thrive on numerous planets are realistic. I think we are evolved for this planet and it for us--it's our home, and we're fouling it. In part because several religions elevate humans to "dominion." There's also the "every religion thinks they have the truth" element. If you truly believe that, then Mormons are heretics, jews are damned, etc etc. Christianity and other religions make man and his sin and his dominion and his control over his environment and the rules he must follow much too important, and they ignore the "be still" and stewardship parts of the narrative. We could all stand a more humbling perspective of mortality and vulnerability and how do we work together to be better stewards of the only habitable home we know for sure we will ever have. Sorry, this is only a partial, unsatisfying answer, but it's a start. Thanks for a good question I can think on for some months.

---

I agree completely with your answers to 1. - 8. & 10.
9. I don't believe there is any evidence of a miracle, which requires the suspension of the natural physical laws of the Universe. People interpret good fortune, and narrow misses with disaster as miracles, when they are simply what they are, essentially anecdotal and coincidental results. There simply is no evidence for miracles.

---

I don't believe in the supernatural - miracles or magic. But I think we have untapped abilities and that sometimes those abilities may be strengthened in the presence of certain others. I know our minds aren't totally trapped in linear time, because I've had dreams that came true (never anything the least bit important-I'm not nostradamus, but I concluded, the few times this happened, that my mind had become unstuck in time like Billy Pilgrim's, when I realized, months or years later, that I was playing out the dream and I'd had a glimpse of the future in a dream).

We don't even understand sleep and its purpose. The more we know, the less we realized we know.

So I think there's an explanation for everything that happens, but that some explanations are beyond our comprehension. If your faith hinges on whether you believe Jesus turned water into wine, you need to examine its foundation, because you're really afraid it's not true and need "proof." Which is the antithesis of faith: "The assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

People for whom everything in the Bible must be literallytrue or their faith is threatened, IMO, don't really have faith. They want tangible proof so they claim it's there.

Maybe leave the politics out of this thread, guys?

Pablo Fanque said:

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I find it interesting to hear people talk about their varying proclivities to sin. Where I think the "lordship" issue above intersects with sin is Pride. For me, pride is my biggest real problem, though not the only one. WHile there is an issue of pride vis-a-vis others, it really is the problem of pride toward God that hinders truly following Him. A lot of our culture-war problems stem from pride - conservative Christians too proud of their own hermeneutical perspectives, and others too proud of their experience-based ethical foundations. There are lots of progressive Christians as well proud of their own hermeneutic of "love" uber alles. Sins of the flesh will always be a problem, but Pride is the real killer of many souls.

---

Impressive post.

Pride could very well be the top killer of souls.

From the 'pick and choose' approach to Christianity so common in today's society.... to the 'me first' approach to parenting....to the 'win at all costs ' philosophy.

I found the Litany of Humility to be a powerful remedy for such prideful behavior .

The Litany has improved many aspects of my life .

Canada2017 said:

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Pablo Fanque said:

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I find it interesting to hear people talk about their varying proclivities to sin. Where I think the "lordship" issue above intersects with sin is Pride. For me, pride is my biggest real problem, though not the only one. WHile there is an issue of pride vis-a-vis others, it really is the problem of pride toward God that hinders truly following Him. A lot of our culture-war problems stem from pride - conservative Christians too proud of their own hermeneutical perspectives, and others too proud of their experience-based ethical foundations. There are lots of progressive Christians as well proud of their own hermeneutic of "love" uber alles. Sins of the flesh will always be a problem, but Pride is the real killer of many souls.

---

Impressive post.

Pride could very well be the top killer of souls.

From the 'pick and choose' approach to Christianity so common in today's society.... to the 'me first' approach to parenting....to the 'win at all costs ' philosophy.

I found the Litany of Humility to be a powerful remedy for such prideful behavior .

The prayer has improved almost all aspects of my life .

---

edit Canada
What prayer?

The opposite of anything 47 says. He purposely leads people of the path into Hell.

GrowlTowel said:

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The opposite of anything 47 says. He purposely leads people of the path into Hell.

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Hope it's not intentional....rather the effects of dementia or medications.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Pablo Fanque said:

---

I find it interesting to hear people talk about their varying proclivities to sin. Where I think the "lordship" issue above intersects with sin is Pride. For me, pride is my biggest real problem, though not the only one. WHile there is an issue of pride vis-a-vis others, it really is the problem of pride toward God that hinders truly following Him. A lot of our culture-war problems stem from pride - conservative Christians too proud of their own hermeneutical perspectives, and others too proud of their experience-based ethical foundations. There are lots of progressive Christians as well proud of their own hermeneutic of "love" uber alles. Sins of the flesh will always be a problem, but Pride is the real killer of many souls.

---

Impressive post.

Pride could very well be the top killer of souls.

From the 'pick and choose' approach to Christianity so common in today's society.... to the 'me first' approach to parenting....to the 'win at all costs ' philosophy.

I found the Litany of Humility to be a powerful remedy for such prideful behavior .

The prayer has improved almost all aspects of my life .

---

edit Canada
What prayer?

---

Presumably this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litany_of_humility

Lord Jesus. Meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being extolled, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being honored, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being praised, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being preferred to others, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being consulted, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being approved, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being humiliated, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being despised, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of suffering rebukes, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being calumniated, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being forgotten, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being ridiculed, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being wronged, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being suspected, Deliver me, Jesus.
That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be chosen and I set aside, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be praised and I unnoticed, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be preferred to me in everything, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val (1865-1930)

Yes

That others may be preferred to me in everything......Jesus grant me the grace to desire it .

GrowlTowel said:

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The opposite of anything 47 says. He purposely leads people of the path into Hell.

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How? By expressing how he experiences God?

Pablo Fanque said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Pablo Fanque said:

---

I find it interesting to hear people talk about their varying proclivities to sin. Where I think the "lordship" issue above intersects with sin is Pride. For me, pride is my biggest real problem, though not the only one. WHile there is an issue of pride vis-a-vis others, it really is the problem of pride toward God that hinders truly following Him. A lot of our culture-war problems stem from pride - conservative Christians too proud of their own hermeneutical perspectives, and others too proud of their experience-based ethical foundations. There are lots of progressive Christians as well proud of their own hermeneutic of "love" uber alles. Sins of the flesh will always be a problem, but Pride is the real killer of many souls.

---

Impressive post.

Pride could very well be the top killer of souls.

From the 'pick and choose' approach to Christianity so common in today's society.... to the 'me first' approach to parenting....to the 'win at all costs ' philosophy.

I found the Litany of Humility to be a powerful remedy for such prideful behavior .

The prayer has improved almost all aspects of my life .

---

edit Canada
What prayer?

---

Presumably this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litany_of_humility

Lord Jesus. Meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being extolled, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being honored, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being praised, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being preferred to others, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being consulted, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being approved, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being humiliated, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being despised, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of suffering rebukes, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being calumniated, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being forgotten, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being ridiculed, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being wronged, Deliver me, Jesus.
From the fear of being suspected, Deliver me, Jesus.
That others may be loved more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That, in the opinion of the world, others may increase and I may decrease, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be chosen and I set aside, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be praised and I unnoticed, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be preferred to me in everything, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should, Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val (1865-1930)

---

thanks Pablo

My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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So all those Muslims in the US, Christians in China, etc. ... you ignore them?

cinque said:

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GrowlTowel said:

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The opposite of anything 47 says. He purposely leads people of the path into Hell.

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How? By expressing how he experiences God?

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Thank you

Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

Waco1947 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

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.. or evidence of an open mind.

Waco1947 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

---

Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

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Respectfully, I think you are running the risk of cultural relativism here rather than championing Christianity. The statement by Buddha Bear is certainly generally true but we as Christians need to advocate that Jesus is the only way as in John 14:6. We are called to spread the gospel and should want all people to become Christians so that they can be saved. Originally the US and Europe did not have Christians either but in time this came to be. I have heard others say that God will send messages in various forms to those in other countries who are seeking God to come to Christianity whether it be in the form of dreams, missionaries, internet content, etc.). The point being that no matter where you start from, you can come to Christianity and we should be promoting that idea rather than it is ok for you to remain in some other religion that is not the way to salvation. If some people see this as narrow-minded, it matters not as we are to seek the favor of God rather than our fellow man.

Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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I won't disagree, especially since you include the word "largely." One of the points in my initial post is that, when I found religion, it happened to be the dominant religion in my culture. Had I found religion after being raised in Saudi Arabia, how sure am I that it would not have been Islam?

Nonetheless, there are those who convert. Some conversions are from nothing to something - these are more likely to be to a different religion than what you grew up around. Some conversions are from one thing to another thing. These are most often to a nearby religion - e.g., from one Protestant denomination to another. The person raised Muslim who converts to evangelical Christianity happens, but it is not common. And the conversion from nothing to something often happens when a person leaves one social context (a non-religious home in China) and lands in another (college in a Christian country). As an example, there are always quite a few international students at Baylor (both undergrad and grad) who convert to Christianity before they graduate.

For Christianity to really take off in a new country, though, it has to transform from a missionary religion led by foreigners to an indigenous religion led by natives. This can be a takeover of leadership within a global denomination (such as natives assuming leadership of their country's Anglican Church) or the emergence of fully indigenous churches (think of Pentecostal denominations in the U.S. in the 20th century, or lots of the big churches in the developing world).

The challenge for Christians seeking to convert a lost world is to first overcome the presumption of many in that world that they are in fact lost and that (as Christianity holds) their cultural religions are false. If not, then why bother to convert them at all?

BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

---

Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

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Respectfully, I think you are running the risk of cultural relativism here rather than championing Christianity. The statement by Buddha Bear is certainly generally true but we as Christians need to advocate that Jesus is the only way as in John 14:6. We are called to spread the gospel and should want all people to become Christians so that they can be saved. Originally the US and Europe did not have Christians either but in time this came to be. I have heard others say that God will send messages in various forms to those in other countries who are seeking God to come to Christianity whether it be in the form of dreams, missionaries, internet content, etc.). The point being that no matter where you start from, you can come to Christianity and we should be promoting that idea rather than it is ok for you to remain in some other religion that is not the way to salvation. If some people see this as narrow-minded, it matters not as we are to seek the favor of God rather than our fellow man.

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Cultural Relativism? That's exactly what you are doing to Christianity

Waco1947 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

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Respectfully, I think you are running the risk of cultural relativism here rather than championing Christianity. The statement by Buddha Bear is certainly generally true but we as Christians need to advocate that Jesus is the only way as in John 14:6. We are called to spread the gospel and should want all people to become Christians so that they can be saved. Originally the US and Europe did not have Christians either but in time this came to be. I have heard others say that God will send messages in various forms to those in other countries who are seeking God to come to Christianity whether it be in the form of dreams, missionaries, internet content, etc.). The point being that no matter where you start from, you can come to Christianity and we should be promoting that idea rather than it is ok for you to remain in some other religion that is not the way to salvation. If some people see this as narrow-minded, it matters not as we are to seek the favor of God rather than our fellow man.

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Cultural Relativism? That's exactly what you are doing to Christianity

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Waco, you are the last person who should complain about someone using cultural relativism.

Waco1947 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

---

Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

---

Respectfully, I think you are running the risk of cultural relativism here rather than championing Christianity. The statement by Buddha Bear is certainly generally true but we as Christians need to advocate that Jesus is the only way as in John 14:6. We are called to spread the gospel and should want all people to become Christians so that they can be saved. Originally the US and Europe did not have Christians either but in time this came to be. I have heard others say that God will send messages in various forms to those in other countries who are seeking God to come to Christianity whether it be in the form of dreams, missionaries, internet content, etc.). The point being that no matter where you start from, you can come to Christianity and we should be promoting that idea rather than it is ok for you to remain in some other religion that is not the way to salvation. If some people see this as narrow-minded, it matters not as we are to seek the favor of God rather than our fellow man.

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Cultural Relativism? That's exactly what you are doing to Christianity

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what say BaylorFW

Oldbear83 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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So all those Muslims in the US, Christians in China, etc. ... you ignore them?

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Family. Then geography. There's a reason why denominations of Christianity were formed. People in one geographical location got together and said they don't agree with the teachings of the people down the road. Let's branch off. Again, and again.

It's easy to be a Christian in the US. Buddhist in Thailand. Muslim in Saudi. Switching religions to most people is like switching families. It would be one of the toughest things they ever had to do. It would mean denying the beliefs of their families and all their ancestors. Basically telling them all they're going to hell. Good luck being successful in that community. For some, religion is a necessity for their survival and success in life.

Buddha Bear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

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So all those Muslims in the US, Christians in China, etc. ... you ignore them?

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Family. Then geography. There's a reason why denominations of Christianity were formed. People in one geographical location got together and said they don't agree with the teachings of the people down the road. Let's branch off. Again, and again.

It's easy to be a Christian in the US. Buddhist in Thailand. Muslim in Saudi. Switching religions to most people is like switching families. It would be one of the toughest things they ever had to do. It would mean denying the beliefs of their families and all their ancestors. Basically telling them all they're going to hell. Good luck being successful in that community. For some, religion is a necessity for their survival and success in life.

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Not always true. Technology makes it harder to control interest in alternative faiths, I laughed a few months ago to find out Iran is struggling to control a rise in Jedism.

2019 is very different from 1949 and a lot of sociologists have still not realized that fact.

Waco1947 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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My belief is that your religion largely depends on the country and family you were born into

---

Amen.
To think otherwise is cultural arrogance.

---

Respectfully, I think you are running the risk of cultural relativism here rather than championing Christianity. The statement by Buddha Bear is certainly generally true but we as Christians need to advocate that Jesus is the only way as in John 14:6. We are called to spread the gospel and should want all people to become Christians so that they can be saved. Originally the US and Europe did not have Christians either but in time this came to be. I have heard others say that God will send messages in various forms to those in other countries who are seeking God to come to Christianity whether it be in the form of dreams, missionaries, internet content, etc.). The point being that no matter where you start from, you can come to Christianity and we should be promoting that idea rather than it is ok for you to remain in some other religion that is not the way to salvation. If some people see this as narrow-minded, it matters not as we are to seek the favor of God rather than our fellow man.

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Cultural Relativism? That's exactly what you are doing to Christianity

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what say BaylorFW

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I want to hear more about what you think I am doing to Christianity before I can adequately respond? I think it would be a good thing for the world if more people adopted the culture and values of Christianity. I am perfectly fine if it replaces the culture and values of some pagan religions, atheism or Islamic influence in more parts of the world. I believe some cultures are better than others.

Baylor Ftw are you aware of the history of the Christian culture? Have read any books about the conquest of Mexico or about the inquisition or missionaries to Africa or India?

Waco1947 said:

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Baylor Ftw are you aware of the history of the Christian culture? Have read any books about the conquest of Mexico or about the inquisition or missionaries to Africa or India?

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Yes I am aware of some of its history. But feel free to state your case more fully.

Waco1947 said:

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Baylor Ftw are you aware of the history of the Christian culture? Have read any books about the conquest of Mexico or about the inquisition or missionaries to Africa or India?

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When people stick to the teachings and example of Christ, the world is a better place. Those things you mentioned (all well over 100 years old) are examples of people who did NOT follow the teachings or example of Christ. The Inquisition was almost 1000 years ago.... learn to let go of old crap. No one is calling for a new inquisition for goodness sake.

Contrast this with Islam. When people follow the teachings and example of Muhammad (may he burn in hell forever), the world is far worse. Muhammad was a pedophile, warlord & bandit who personally murdered hundreds of innocent people and persecuted hundreds more. He taught his followers to commit genocide and to kill all those who do not practice the "true religion".

So yeah... Christianity is far better for the planet, than Islam. It is also far better than the Hindu caste system. Far better than animism and paganism as well.
The only argument to make is for the pure form of Buddhism. If someone follows the teachings & example of the Buddha, then they will also lead a very peaceful life with their neighbors.