The Census question

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BrooksBearLives
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Seems pretty obvious the citizenship question was politically motivated and there's proof of it.

Also, Wilbur Ross looks like the Crypt-keeper's uglier brother.

Thoughts?

W
Quote:

ASHINGTON A House panel voted Wednesday to hold two members of President Donald Trump's Cabinet in contempt for defying subpoenas for Census documents, further escalating multiple fights between Congress and the administration.
The Oversight and Reform Committee voted 24-15 to hold Attorney General William Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in contempt for refusing to provide documents about how and why a citizenship question was added to the 2020 Census. The Judiciary Committee had already found Barr in contempt for defying a subpoena for the full report from special counsel Robert Mueller.
Trump asserted executive privilege Wednesday to keep secret documents about the citizenship question secret.
Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd said in a letter Wednesday that Trump was asserting executive privilege to prevent the release of key documents, including a Dec. 12, 2017, letter to the U.S. Census Bureau. Trump also protectively asserted executive privilege over the rest of the subpoenaed documents, while officials determine whether they should be kept secret, Boyd said.

"It appears to be another example of the administration's blanket defiance," said Oversight Chairman Elijah Cummings, D-Md., who noted the bipartisan subpoenas were issued more than two months ago. "This begs the question: what is being hidden?"
But Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio, the top Republican on the committee, said Democrats were moving urgently on the contempt vote in an attempt to influence the Supreme Court, which is considering a case dealing with the census question.


"This is just another attempt to muddy the waters," Jordan said. "It's not what we should be doing."
The Constitution calls for the Census to count everyone in the country every decade. The administration's decision to ask people whether they are citizens in 2020 has been contentious because of Democratic concerns it could discourage participation. Republicans said the Census included a citizenship question from 1820 to 1950, along with the question appearing on more detailed forms in more recent decades.
The Census is important because it counts the population once a decade to apportion seats in Congress, providing figures to map House districts and contributing to enforcement of the Voting Rights Act by showing the Justice Department where minorities live. The population figures are also used throughout government to divide billions in federal spending each year.
The Supreme Court, which has called the Census "the linchpin of the federal statistical system," heard a case about the citizenship question in April and a ruling is expected by the end of June. The court will basically decide whether Ross had ample reason to ask about citizenship, followed acceptable procedures and acted within the bounds of the Constitution.
"It's going to intimidate and discourage," said Rep. Gerald Connolly, D-Va. "This isn't just a fight between the executive and legislative branch. This is about the future of our democratic process."
Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said Cummings had tried to negotiate a compromise for the documents, but was thwarted by the administration.
"All we get from the administration is a middle finger," Raskin said.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Tuesday the citizenship question threatened "to put a chilling effect on us getting an accurate count."
But Trump has said he will defy subpoenas because the multiple House inquiries amount to presidential harassment. House Republicans have argued that Democrats are moving too hastily to find officials in contempt and to file federal lawsuits, rather than spending more time negotiating with the Justice Department for contested documents.
"The record before the committee does not support contempt of Congress at this time," Jordan said Tuesday in a letter to Cummings. "If you were serious about getting to the facts on the Administration's decision to reinstitute a citizenship question on the 2020 Census, you should attempt to obtain the information from other sources before rushing to contempt of Congress."
Rep. Clay Higgins, R-La., said the contempt vote represented unnecessary divisiveness in the government.
"This is the legislative branch of government, not the harass and attack branch of government, and this committee should not succumb to the level of vitriol and division that we witness unnecessarily across our nation," Higgins said.
The Census fight followed a House vote Tuesday to authorize lawsuits to enforce subpoenas against Barr for the full Mueller report and underlying documents, and against former White House counsel Don McGahn. The House also agreed to ease the approval of lawsuits to enforce subpoenas. Traditionally, the full House voted to authorize lawsuits, but the resolution adopted in a party-line vote allowed a five-member leadership group controlled by Democrats to approve lawsuits.
The House already is locked in a pair of court fights with Trump over subpoenas for his financial records. Two federal judges rejected Trump's efforts to block the subpoenas, and the president has appealed, arguing that "Congress is simply not allowed to conduct law-enforcement investigations of the president."

Malbec
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My thoughts are that I would like to know how many American citizens there are, and I would like to know that representation in our country is based on the number of citizens that reside in each state to start.
Johnny Bear
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Here is my thought:

TDS is a really horrible mental disorder. Sorry you suffer so badly from it.

And you've got 5 1/2 more years to go.......
Doc Holliday
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Johnny Bear said:

Here is my thought:

TDS is a really horrible mental disorder. Sorry you suffer so badly from it.

And you've got 5 1/2 more years to go.......
I don't think he or the left in general have learned that their virtue signaling and outrage doesn't work anymore.

It worked until 2016. Not anymore.

It's like the parent that gives into their child's demands and they finally tell them no.
GrowlTowel
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It is a simple question with only 2 possible answers, unlike your 18 different genders theory.

If citizenship is political, certainly gender and race are equally political.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
D. C. Bear
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GrowlTowel said:

It is a simple question with only 2 possible answers, unlike your 18 different genders theory.

If citizenship is political, certainly gender and race are equally political.


What if you are a citizen, but you feel lIke you're British?
YoakDaddy
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I'd think the left would want the citizenship question to see how much they'd want to increase in entitlement spending unless they're scared of what the number would actually be.

I'll only answer the number of people that live in our home. That's what I did last time and that's what I'll do again. Fulk answering all the other questions.
BrooksBearLives
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You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?
midgett
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BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


The theory behind the accusation is that noncitizens would be compelled to avoid responding to the census.

Tell me what I need to know:
1. What prevents people from lying anyway?
2. If they don't respond because they aren't a citizen, why do they need to be counted anyway?
3. If they respond even though they aren't a citizen, why are we counting them anyway?

(I know a few reasons for the above but not all. I am interested in honest feedback.)
GrowlTowel
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D. C. Bear said:

GrowlTowel said:

It is a simple question with only 2 possible answers, unlike your 18 different genders theory.

If citizenship is political, certainly gender and race are equally political.


What if you are a citizen, but you feel lIke you're British?

Great question. 22 million muck mucks roaming around could easily identify as White Caucasian, freaking out sociologist in every University.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
BrooksBearLives
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The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens.

I thought you guys cared about decorum and the constitution and honor?
GrowlTowel
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BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
BrooksBearLives
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GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.


The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.
GrowlTowel
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BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.


The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.


Spare me your lecture. I will not engage in your virtue signaling. You have no moral authority. Read the dang document and specifically the 14th amendment.

I don't care for the same reasons you didn't give a **** about the IRS targeting conservatives.

We the people of the United States does not mean people that happen to be here every 10 years.

You know it. Why doesn't it bother you?

22 million here. Alone that is the fifth largest state.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
cinque
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Malbec said:

My thoughts are that I would like to know how many American citizens there are, and I would like to know that representation in our country is based on the number of citizens that reside in each state to start.
Yeah, well...

Decennial U.S. Census figures are based on actual counts of persons dwelling in U.S. residential structures. They include citizens, non-citizen legal residents, non-citizenlong-term visitors and undocumented immigrants..
Make Racism Wrong Again
BrooksBearLives
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GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.


The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.


Spare me your lecture. I will not engage in your virtue signaling. You have no moral authority. Read the dang document and specifically the 14th amendment.

I don't care for the same reasons you didn't give a **** about the IRS targeting conservatives.

We the people of the United States does not mean people that happen to be here every 10 years.

You know it. Why doesn't it bother you?

22 million here. Alone that is the fifth largest state.


The constitution says to count all people. Remember, citizenship at the time of the founding fathers was limited to men. But yet everyone was counted. The founding fathers made a CLEAR point of saying ALL were to be counted accurately.

You're wrong and you know it.

So once again. Why don't you have a problem with this? Is your tribalism THAT strong?
Malbec
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cinque said:

Malbec said:

My thoughts are that I would like to know how many American citizens there are, and I would like to know that representation in our country is based on the number of citizens that reside in each state to start.
Yeah, well...

Decennial U.S. Census figures are based on actual counts of persons dwelling in U.S. residential structures. They include citizens, non-citizen legal residents, non-citizenlong-term visitors and undocumented immigrants..
Yeah well, I can count all the fruit in my fridge, but if I need to make orange juice, I need to know how many oranges I have. Even though I like my apples and I need to know how many of those I have, I count them for a different reason.

Also, by your definition, we shouldn't count homeless people. I guess peaches are irrelevant.
Mitch Blood Green
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midgett said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


The theory behind the accusation is that noncitizens would be compelled to avoid responding to the census.

Tell me what I need to know:
1. What prevents people from lying anyway?
2. If they don't respond because they aren't a citizen, why do they need to be counted anyway?
3. If they respond even though they aren't a citizen, why are we counting them anyway?

(I know a few reasons for the above but not all. I am interested in honest feedback.)


Nothing prevents you from lying. However, if you're illegal, you know lying might be the next reason to be thrown out. (Answering the census is another).

The Dreamers came forward based on a promise from the government. Many are now seeing the information they shared be used against them.

I believe you count everyone, regardless of status, because the constitution requires it.
Jack and DP
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BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.


The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.


If you were working in England for a year, would you have a problem identifying as an American on a British census?
BaylorBJM
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Malbec said:

cinque said:

Malbec said:

My thoughts are that I would like to know how many American citizens there are, and I would like to know that representation in our country is based on the number of citizens that reside in each state to start.
Yeah, well...

Decennial U.S. Census figures are based on actual counts of persons dwelling in U.S. residential structures. They include citizens, non-citizen legal residents, non-citizenlong-term visitors and undocumented immigrants..
Yeah well, I can count all the fruit in my fridge, but if I need to make orange juice, I need to know how many oranges I have. Even though I like my apples and I need to know how many of those I have, I count them for a different reason.


The census isn't about making orange juice. It's about making fruit juice. You count all fruit.

You can disagree with it all you want but at least be honest in your reasoning and admit you disagree with the constitution. It's clear as day in the document.
BrooksBearLives
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Jack and DP said:

BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.


The founding fathers never would have called them "illegals."

Your idea of patriotism is pretty pale.

The census is supposed to count EVERYONE. Not just citizens. It's ridiculously clear.

Why don't you care?

Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.


If you were working in England for a year, would you have a problem identifying as an American on a British census?


What? Personally, no I wouldn't. However, if I was there seeking asylum and Nigel Farage we'd PM... I'd think twice.
cinque
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Malbec said:

cinque said:

Malbec said:

My thoughts are that I would like to know how many American citizens there are, and I would like to know that representation in our country is based on the number of citizens that reside in each state to start.
Yeah, well...

Decennial U.S. Census figures are based on actual counts of persons dwelling in U.S. residential structures. They include citizens, non-citizen legal residents, non-citizenlong-term visitors and undocumented immigrants..
Yeah well, I can count all the fruit in my fridge, but if I need to make orange juice, I need to know how many oranges I have. Even though I like my apples and I need to know how many of those I have, I count them for a different reason.

Also, by your definition, we shouldn't count homeless people. I guess peaches are irrelevant.
Its not my definition. It's how we've conducted the census for quite awhile. If you count "all" the fruit wouldn't you have already counted the number of oranges?
BrooksBearLives
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Man... this thread got quiet.

Interesting.

The census literally says to count everyone. Even non-citizens. This new rule was DESIGNED to discourage the counting of blacks and non-white Hispanics.

That is wrong.
Florda_mike
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Liberals will lie cheat and steal to destroy this country

This thread is classic example

BBL is a racist
bearassnekkid
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BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.




Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.
Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?
Florda_mike
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^^^ Boom
riflebear
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bearassnekkid said:

BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.




Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.
Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?


Well said. 100% guarantee if the GOP made a deal that they would count illegals on the census if they didn't use the extra number of illegals for adding congressional seats the Dems would disagree. It's obvious what this is about. The Dems are allowing illegals to die on the border and Americans to be in danger just to win back power. That is border line criminal.

Also ironic that Brooks in this thread wants illegals but in his other economy thread he's using all the unemployed illegals to justify all the poor as a reason Trump's economy isn't as good as people say it is.
Doc Holliday
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bearassnekkid said:

BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.




Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.
Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?
Yep.

We all know why they're frustrated over the issue, and it has nothing to do with what they claim to be fighting against.

They're simply worried about losing power.
BrooksBearLives
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bearassnekkid said:

BrooksBearLives said:

GrowlTowel said:

BrooksBearLives said:

You guys DO know that there is proof the question is put in place specifically to get FEWER people counted, right?

There's literally proof.

And now the President is trying to cover it up in plain sight.

Y'all are okay with that?


Absolutely. Why count illegals in the first place? They don't respect our laws. Citizenship should mean something.

The forms should also only be printed in English only.

There is simply no reason to pander to California and New York.




Also, you say they don't respect our laws, but they're much less likely to disobey them. Study after study has confirmed this.
Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part?

Answer me a simple question: Do you agree or disagree that the Left champions illegal immigration because it knows illegals greatly affect the apportionment of seats in Congress?

I'll be interested to see if you're capable of honesty here. We all know this is at the root of the census question, so what say you?
Jeez. We've been over this.

1. seeking asylum isn't against the law.

2. jumping the border is a misdemeanor. If you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, you're about as much a "criminal" as they are.

Here's the answer to your question: I am on the left. I couldn't give TWO ****S about how migrants affect elections. They aren't citizens. They don't vote. I sincerely don't care about how they affect congressional allotment. Honestly, if they aren't voting, then that should be a boon to Texas Republicans, but I digress.

Migration is good for society. It literally always has been. Immigrants on average are technically better citizens than most citizens. They work their asses off doing work no one else wants to do. They tend to be more family-oriented and community-oriented. They want more for their families, and they are brave as heck. That's what American needs. That is literally what has always made our country great. We are a literal nation of immigrants.

So, no. I'm being completely honest. I don't know a single liberal who has ever factored migrants into the math of congressional allotment. I'm being absolutely sincere.

My advocacy of migrants comes from my Christian belief from the dozens of times the Son of God exhorted all his true followers to care for the alien, love their neighbor, and give them the cloaks off our backs.

The root of the census question -for me- is 100% about honesty. Article 1, section 2 of the Constitution states:
Quote:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.
It said to count ALL persons. The intention of the founding fathers is crystal clear. This question is clearly meant to subvert that. There are receipts of this. We have a cabinet secretary lying to congress.

THAT is my problem.
Doc Holliday
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Why be against full discovery of who is here?
Florda_mike
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BBL is just another mentally ill liberal able to cleverly mask the truth with subtle lies
Doc Holliday
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Florda_mike said:

BBL is just another mentally ill liberal able to cleverly mask the truth with subtle lies
Self believed Moral superiority blinds them to reasoning and logic.
EatMoreSalmon
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Rationalization is a dangerous activity. It is all over this thread.
57Bear
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bearassnekk... said:

... Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them by merely being here. You forget about that part? ...
FIFY: ... Uhhhh, they have disobeyed them and continue to disobey them by merely being here. You forget about that part? ...
BrooksBearLives
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Doc Holliday said:

Why be against full discovery of who is here?
If you're supporting the citizenship question -which we know will depress responses- then you're not really supporting the full discovery.
 
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