Your implication was/is that Keyser's testimony is more valid or truthful or worthy of considering than Blasey Ford's. It wasn't. And it changed.90sBear said:https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/rebutJinx 2 said:Keyser's memories are no better evidence than Blasey Ford's memories. Ford herself stated, at the time, that she did not expect Keyser to have any memory of the incident.Sam Lowry said:To rebut doesn't necessarily mean to conclusively disprove. Keyser has rebutted several aspects of Ford's story in the sense that she's opposed them with countervailing evidence. According to Keyser, the parties they attended in high school weren't like the one Ford described. After reviewing pictures, she's stated that she didn't know Kavanaugh - not just that she didn't remember him. And she claims it would have been impossible for Ford to leave under those circumstances without Keyser figuring out how she'd get home. These are relevant, specific rebuttals to Ford's assertions.Jinx 2 said:But you did it again.Sam Lowry said:I didn't know Keyser changed her mind. You could have just said so.Jinx 2 said:This is why I don't engage with you most of the time: you present part of the truth in a way that makes it appear to be all of the truth.Sam Lowry said:
During the Kavanaugh hearings it was reported that Ford's friend Leland Keyser basically believed her allegations even though she couldn't corroborate them. Now it turns out even that wasn't true. Plus Keyser was threatened for not backing the narrative. Ford has zero credibility at this point.
Here's an article from the Washington Post that explains what really happened: Keyser originally believed Blasey Ford's allegations, telling investigators DURING the Kavanaugh hearing that she didn't remember the party in question, but that she believed Blasey Ford's allegations thought her attorney:
Excerpt: Keyser's attorney told investigators during Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings that she couldn't recall the night in question, while adding that she believed Ford.
Later, in interviews with the New York Times reporters, she revealed that she no longer believes those allegations.
So when you say "it turns out even that wasn't true," you're wrong. But you get the same kind of validation from the ninnies on this site that you got back when you announced that you had seen the truth and decided to vote for Trump.
People change their minds (as you apparently did about Trump). Keyser did, for whatever reason. But there was no false reporting, and to use this to imply that the news media has engaged in a campaign of disinformation intended to discredit Brett Kavanaugh--the right-wing news narrative from the start--is wrong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/17/key-witness-brett-kavanaugh-saga-comes-down-his-side/
Here's an excerpt:
Some of Keyser's new quotes were first spotlighted in recent days by the Federalist, and the general thrust of Keyser's skepticism was reported in a July book by the same author, Mollie Hemingway, and Carrie Severino. The reporting in their book relied upon anonymous sources. But with the release of the book Tuesday, we have a fuller picture of what Keyser said in her first extensive public interview since Kavanaugh's confirmation.
Keyser described having many more reservations than she initially let on. She said she tried to assemble the details as described by Ford, but she called her attorney and told him, "You know what, I don't feel good about something."
Ford said in her testimony that she left after the alleged assault but wasn't sure how she got home, other than that she didn't drive home. Ford also said there were at least four boys at the party three that she was able to name along with Keyser, but that there could have been more.
"It would be impossible for me to be the only girl at a get-together with three guys, have her leave and then not figure out how she's going to get home," Keyser said.
"I've been thinking about who I was at 16 rather than who Chrissy was at 16," Keyser said, saying that although she has dealt with addiction as an adult, she wasn't a heavy drinker then. She added, "That's when I changed."
Ford, in her Senate testimony, said Keyser "was downstairs during the event and I did not share it with her." She also said then of Keyser's lack of corroboration, "I don't expect that Leland would remember this evening."
Keyser said she doesn't remember many small gatherings like the one Ford described, nor does she remember hanging out much with Georgetown Prep students, which Kavanaugh was. She maintains that she didn't even know who Kavanaugh was back then, after reviewing pictures and maps.
"Those facts together I don't recollect, and it just doesn't make any sense," Keyser said. Keyser also said she spoke with many people who "wanted me to remember something different" suggesting that there was pressure on her to toe the line and that she told the FBI about that. Some of Keyser's more interesting comments, though, are about Ford and Kavanaugh as people.
Of her friend, she alludes to some kind of "trauma" Ford may have experienced, even as the details of this particular allegation don't add up to her.
"I think something happened, but I don't know what," Keyser said. "And I haven't been close enough to her over the years to know that something went down. I haven't seen her in a long, long time. I do think that something happened to her, and that maybe she is a victim of some sort of trauma."
The fact remains that Ford now has zero support from anyone in a position to know what happened, while her friend has rebutted some specific aspects of her story and questioned the integrity of those around Ford who were promoting it. At this point she'd have a long way to go to even meet the "he said, she said" standard of credibility.
"Her friend rebutted certain aspects of her story" is inaccurate. Leland Keyser said she did not remember the party in question or hanging out much with students from Kavanaugh's school. She didn't remember Kavanaugh. She also expressed doubt about whether Blasey-Ford's story was true, but that is not the same as "rebutting" any facts--that's just her opinion--the same opinion many of you have formed. "Not remembering" is not a rebuttal. Blasey Ford had stated that Keyser was downstairs, that she had never told Keyser what had happened, and that it was unlikely Keyser would remember anything about it.
If somebody tried to pressure her to remember something she didn't remember, that was clearly wrong. But it looks like that Keyser may have been pressured by people on both sides of this sordid story.
One point that the two female reporters who investigated this story--the women so vilified on this forum for their reporting--made is that the gaps in Blasey Ford's memories are consistent with those of people recalling traumatic events from the past. They may have no recollection of some details combined with a very vivid memory of certain aspects of the assault.
Many people posting here also think investigating this event isn't valid. It certainly wouldn't have been tolerated in the 1990s when Clarence Thomas got onto the Supreme Court despite more credible allegations from Anita Hill. Kavanaugh's nomination came on the heels of the "Me, Too" movement, and she got the same treatment as Anita Hill from the all-male, all-white GOP Senate Judiciary committee members. It doesn't surprise me they investigated or that they believed her allegations. Nor does the backlash and the faulting of the New York Times for the way they reported it. All of that's predictable, but the bottom line is, we've got another jerk who got on the court by having a high-profile tantrum that would been totally disqualifying had the person who behaved like that been a women and the senator so disrespected with a snarled, "Do you like beer, senator?" been a man (and one whose father had been an alcoholic).
The fact that traumatized women can have memory gaps is only evidence that Ford could have been telling the truth. It's in no way evidence that she was.
To say she "rebutted several aspects of Ford's story" is simply incorrect. SHE may not remember hanging out with boys from Georgetown Prep, but plenty of other women from Blasey-Ford's school did. And she may not remember Kavanaugh, but others did. Keyser didn't originally testify because she has an addition disorder; she had a lawyer speak for her. I understand that people choose the witnesses they believe are most credible in a criminal case, but (1) this isn't a criminal case and (2) Blasey-Ford appears more credible to me than Keyser. You've chosen her version because you like it better.
Rebut: to argue that a statement or claim is not true.
Seems to meet the definition of "rebut" to me.
Oh Lordy, if Blasey Ford's testimony had changed, you fellas would be all over that because you'd say the inconsistency proves either that she's lying or that her memories are totally inaccurate. But you're prepared to accept Keyser's changing her mind as the gospel truth as long as what she says supports Kavauagh.
Kavanaugh's in there, and for the record, I think Democrats would be stupid to try to impeach him. But the GOP has fouled both the SCOTUS selection process by not even considering Obama's nominee, a final act of 8 years of disrespect and obstructive that I view as unforgivable (McConnell's the guy who should be impeached) and SCOTUS itself by appointing not one, but 2 guys who have behaved like jerks with women.