Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "Scientific plausibility is founded upon evidence based modern science."

Go back to definitions. "Plausible" simply means "believable", and you consider science - made by man - to be your choice of evidence.

I, speaking as a man of faith, accept science up to its limits, and faith on its own grounds where pertinent.

We each choose what we accept as evidence, and make our decision on the best available evidence as we see it. I use science to weigh practical decisions in a material world, and scripture/faith to help guide me in moral and spiritual matters. You appear to prefer science in both kinds.

We both use the same method, simply different data.

---

The products/results of science are what I base my beliefs upon. Science has no limits. The evidence of reality doesn't allow for the supernatural. Otherwise, I agree.

You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions. When it gets down to making real decisions, most religious choose science over faith.

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist: "No one created anything."

Eh nihilo, nihilo est.

Most real scientists know this.

---

Except in this case, something from nothing. Most scientists know this is possible at the quantum level.

---

Prove it. And provide three examples.

---

Edward Tryon, Alan Guth, and Stephen Hawking. They all have published papers on the subject. I can give you more if you need more than three.

---

That's not proof, and none of those men have created matter.

Strike one.

Try again.

---

You asked me to name three scientists who knew it. They each have written on spontaneous generation of a universe from essentially nothing. A creator is not necessary.

---

Hawking got it right the first time and then changed his mind. Good example of how scientists can allow emotion to inform their opinions.

---

What do you think he got right the first time, and then changed his mind?

Emotional bias is an evolutionary trait. People tend to seek and embrace that which confirms their bias, while dismissing and ignoring evidence which contradicts. It's pervasive on this board. In the case of Hawking, a good scientist will change their view when confronted with objective evidence.

---

Hawking understood, at least when he wrote his first book, that there was no scientific explanation for spontaneous creation. He eventually decided that creation resulted from something called the Law of Gravity, thus attributing creative power to a concept in the minds of humans who didn't yet exist. The fallacy is obvious.

---

I haven't' read Hawking's first book which was published in 1988, but I am familiar with his later works, so I question what you think you read. Perhaps you can provide a reference?

---

"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?" A Brief History of Time

Replace "universe" with "multiverse," and this remains true.

---

So he poses these questions. Did he attempt to answer the questions he posited in the subsequent writings?

To me, the answer is there is no why. There is only how. Why presupposes a purpose to the existence of a universe or a multiverse. I suspect Hawking would agree.

---

There's no scientific explanation how or why something could come from nothing. Hawking did try to answer the question, but it's not a real answer. His nothing isn't nothing, and his something is only a small part of creation.

---

Hawking's answer is scientifically plausible. Actually, Alan Guth did a very good job of making a scientific explanation. Spontaneous generation of a universe is not only plausible, but probable in a universe such as ours where the total sum of energy is zero. A universe from 'nothing' is far more likely than a universe created by a god created in the minds of primitive men. Think about it.

---

I've thought and read a great deal about it and would invite you to consider how irrational it is that there is "something rather than nothing" in the words of Stephen Hawking (interview with Diane Sawyer). I don't know anything about Alan Guth or his work, but a simple exercise in logic should tell us that nothing comes from nothing. For an alternate view, I commend to you the works of Anglican priest and Cambridge math/physics don, John Polkinghorne.

---

Except in physics nothing is different from philosophical nothing.

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Science has no limits.

---

So close to an epiphany, and yet so far.

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist: "No one created anything."

Eh nihilo, nihilo est.

Most real scientists know this.

---

Except in this case, something from nothing. Most scientists know this is possible at the quantum level.

---

Prove it. And provide three examples.

---

Edward Tryon, Alan Guth, and Stephen Hawking. They all have published papers on the subject. I can give you more if you need more than three.

---

That's not proof, and none of those men have created matter.

Strike one.

Try again.

---

You asked me to name three scientists who knew it. They each have written on spontaneous generation of a universe from essentially nothing. A creator is not necessary.

---

Hawking got it right the first time and then changed his mind. Good example of how scientists can allow emotion to inform their opinions.

---

What do you think he got right the first time, and then changed his mind?

Emotional bias is an evolutionary trait. People tend to seek and embrace that which confirms their bias, while dismissing and ignoring evidence which contradicts. It's pervasive on this board. In the case of Hawking, a good scientist will change their view when confronted with objective evidence.

---

Hawking understood, at least when he wrote his first book, that there was no scientific explanation for spontaneous creation. He eventually decided that creation resulted from something called the Law of Gravity, thus attributing creative power to a concept in the minds of humans who didn't yet exist. The fallacy is obvious.

---

I haven't' read Hawking's first book which was published in 1988, but I am familiar with his later works, so I question what you think you read. Perhaps you can provide a reference?

---

"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe? The usual approach of science of constructing a mathematical model cannot answer the questions of why there should be a universe for the model to describe. Why does the universe go to all the bother of existing?" A Brief History of Time

Replace "universe" with "multiverse," and this remains true.

---

So he poses these questions. Did he attempt to answer the questions he posited in the subsequent writings?

To me, the answer is there is no why. There is only how. Why presupposes a purpose to the existence of a universe or a multiverse. I suspect Hawking would agree.

---

There's no scientific explanation how or why something could come from nothing. Hawking did try to answer the question, but it's not a real answer. His nothing isn't nothing, and his something is only a small part of creation.

---

Hawking's answer is scientifically plausible. Actually, Alan Guth did a very good job of making a scientific explanation. Spontaneous generation of a universe is not only plausible, but probable in a universe such as ours where the total sum of energy is zero. A universe from 'nothing' is far more likely than a universe created by a god created in the minds of primitive men. Think about it.

---

I've thought and read a great deal about it and would invite you to consider how irrational it is that there is "something rather than nothing" in the words of Stephen Hawking (interview with Diane Sawyer). I don't know anything about Alan Guth or his work, but a simple exercise in logic should tell us that nothing comes from nothing. For an alternate view, I commend to you the works of Anglican priest and Cambridge math/physics don, John Polkinghorne.

---

Except in physics nothing is different from philosophical nothing. The reality is that nothing is most likely to be no space at all, and no time, no particles, no fields, no laws of nature. Some indicate quantum field theory suggests nothing is the ground state of a gapped quantum system lacking degrees freedom or dimensions; others would describe it as a closed space-time with a zero radius.

The fact of the matter is, if you remove everything from space, including all matter and all radiation, empty space still weighs something. We know that weight comes from virtual quantum particles that pop into and out of existence for only an infinitesimal fraction of a second.

---

"Except in physics nothing is different from philosophical nothing." Exactly. Physics cannot tolerate "nothing", but must have "something".

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Because the net energy in our universe is zero.

---

1-1=0, but it doesn't mean the zero was the cause of the 1.
Maybe you can explain it further.

---

We know we live in a flat universe, and we know the total energy of a flat universe is zero. We know the total energy of all matter (positive) is cancelled out by the total energy of gravity (negative) yielding a total energy of the universe as zero. The laws of quantum physics and special relativity tell us that only such a universe can begin from nothing.

---

So far you've done nothing to explain how quantum physics and special relativity tell us that, or how it is like someone eventually winning the lottery. You're just repeating yourself.

---

I answered your previous question above, which also answers your immediate question about the lottery analogy. How deep do you want to dive into physics for an explanation? Do you want the detail for how we know we live in a flat universe as opposed to an open or closed universe? Do you want to know the mathematics/physics of how we know the various types of matter, and how much energy is in the Universe, or how we know that empty space, devoid of everything (all matter, radiation) actually weighs something? Do you want to know how we know virtual particles in a vacuum pop in and out of existence for a minuscule fraction of a second? Or how we know the Universe is expanding in all directions? All of this and much more are factors.

---

No, you didn't answer anything. You are only stating that "quantum physics tells us that" after I ask how quantum physics tells us that.

But let's start here - I think this is of utmost importance - I need to know your definition of "nothing" if you're gonna show me how quantum physics shows something can come from nothing. In my understanding, in quantum physics, the concept of "nothing" is still actually something. (Edit: as Sam stated above, it is fluctuating energy fields.)

---

Quantum field theory (as opposed to hypothesis) in its same total supports what I am saying. That includes all of the mathematics and empirical objective evidence that define quantum mechanics.

See my just recent posted answer above for my definition of nothing. If you want to call the definition something, I suppose you could.

---

I don't want to call it something; that's what it IS. It IS something.

Bottom line is, you have utterly failed in showing that science has shown something from nothing is possible. Instead, what you resorted to doing was what the left frequently does when they can't win the logical argument - they change definitions.

The intellectual dishonesty that you, Krauss, and all the atheist scientists had to engage in to prop up science as having all the answers is really sad.

Sorry, you lose.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Because the net energy in our universe is zero.

---

1-1=0, but it doesn't mean the zero was the cause of the 1.
Maybe you can explain it further.

---

We know we live in a flat universe, and we know the total energy of a flat universe is zero. We know the total energy of all matter (positive) is cancelled out by the total energy of gravity (negative) yielding a total energy of the universe as zero. The laws of quantum physics and special relativity tell us that only such a universe can begin from nothing.

---

So far you've done nothing to explain how quantum physics and special relativity tell us that, or how it is like someone eventually winning the lottery. You're just repeating yourself.

---

I answered your previous question above, which also answers your immediate question about the lottery analogy. How deep do you want to dive into physics for an explanation? Do you want the detail for how we know we live in a flat universe as opposed to an open or closed universe? Do you want to know the mathematics/physics of how we know the various types of matter, and how much energy is in the Universe, or how we know that empty space, devoid of everything (all matter, radiation) actually weighs something? Do you want to know how we know virtual particles in a vacuum pop in and out of existence for a minuscule fraction of a second? Or how we know the Universe is expanding in all directions? All of this and much more are factors.

---

No, you didn't answer anything. You are only stating that "quantum physics tells us that" after I ask how quantum physics tells us that.

But let's start here - I think this is of utmost importance - I need to know your definition of "nothing" if you're gonna show me how quantum physics shows something can come from nothing. In my understanding, in quantum physics, the concept of "nothing" is still actually something. (Edit: as Sam stated above, it is fluctuating energy fields.)

---

Quantum field theory (as opposed to hypothesis) in its same total supports what I am saying. That includes all of the mathematics and empirical objective evidence that define quantum mechanics.

See my just recent posted answer above for my definition of nothing. If you want to call the definition something, I suppose you could.

---

I don't want to call it something; that's what it IS. It IS something.

Bottom line is, you have utterly failed in showing that science has shown something from nothing is possible. Instead, what you resorted to doing was what the left frequently does when they can't win the logical argument - they change definitions.

The intellectual dishonesty that you, Krauss, and all the atheist scientists had to engage in to prop up science as having all the answers is really sad.

Sorry, you lose.

---

Reality is reality. You can accept it or deny it. Religion, when confronted with reality, denies reality, or compromises its tenets to try and conform to the undeniable in an attempt to remain credible.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Already answered. Try reading my posts before looking for your next trick to "win" the debate.

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Because the net energy in our universe is zero.

---

1-1=0, but it doesn't mean the zero was the cause of the 1.
Maybe you can explain it further.

---

We know we live in a flat universe, and we know the total energy of a flat universe is zero. We know the total energy of all matter (positive) is cancelled out by the total energy of gravity (negative) yielding a total energy of the universe as zero. The laws of quantum physics and special relativity tell us that only such a universe can begin from nothing.

---

So far you've done nothing to explain how quantum physics and special relativity tell us that, or how it is like someone eventually winning the lottery. You're just repeating yourself.

---

I answered your previous question above, which also answers your immediate question about the lottery analogy. How deep do you want to dive into physics for an explanation? Do you want the detail for how we know we live in a flat universe as opposed to an open or closed universe? Do you want to know the mathematics/physics of how we know the various types of matter, and how much energy is in the Universe, or how we know that empty space, devoid of everything (all matter, radiation) actually weighs something? Do you want to know how we know virtual particles in a vacuum pop in and out of existence for a minuscule fraction of a second? Or how we know the Universe is expanding in all directions? All of this and much more are factors.

---

No, you didn't answer anything. You are only stating that "quantum physics tells us that" after I ask how quantum physics tells us that.

But let's start here - I think this is of utmost importance - I need to know your definition of "nothing" if you're gonna show me how quantum physics shows something can come from nothing. In my understanding, in quantum physics, the concept of "nothing" is still actually something. (Edit: as Sam stated above, it is fluctuating energy fields.)

---

Quantum field theory (as opposed to hypothesis) in its same total supports what I am saying. That includes all of the mathematics and empirical objective evidence that define quantum mechanics.

See my just recent posted answer above for my definition of nothing. If you want to call the definition something, I suppose you could.

---

I don't want to call it something; that's what it IS. It IS something.

Bottom line is, you have utterly failed in showing that science has shown something from nothing is possible. Instead, what you resorted to doing was what the left frequently does when they can't win the logical argument - they change definitions.

The intellectual dishonesty that you, Krauss, and all the atheist scientists had to engage in to prop up science as having all the answers is really sad.

Sorry, you lose.

---

Reality is reality. You can accept it or deny it. Religion, when confronted with reality, denies reality, or compromises its tenets to try and conform to the undeniable in an attempt to remain credible.

---

Kinda like how you had to change the meaning of "nothing" to hold fast to your beliefs?

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Serious question, fwiw: If you found nothing in Holy Scriptures to be in "error" or inconsistent (however you wish to define those terms), do you think you would still have become an atheist? Sincerely curious.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Already answered. Try reading my posts before looking for your next trick to "win" the debate.

---

Wisdom is founded on knowledge.

Where does it say Luke was a practicing physician? Further, in those days, physicians practice was based upon superstition and ignorance.

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Serious question, fwiw: If you found nothing in Holy Scriptures to be in "error" or inconsistent (however you wish to define those terms), do you think you would still have become an atheist? Sincerely curious.

---

I wouldn't need to be an atheist if it were true.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Already answered. Try reading my posts before looking for your next trick to "win" the debate.

---

Wisdom is founded on knowledge.

Where does it say Luke was a practicing physician? Further, in those days, physicians practice was based upon superstition and ignorance.

---

Colossians 4:14 refers to Luke as "the beloved physician." The books of Luke and Acts make clear that the author was an educated man. The nonsensical idea that Christians have no need of physicians was refuted by Christ Himself (Matt. 9:12). First-century medicine was not much by 21st century standards but was still quite a bit more advanced than you seem to think.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/daily-life-and-practice/medicine-in-the-ancient-world/

TexasScientist said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Serious question, fwiw: If you found nothing in Holy Scriptures to be in "error" or inconsistent (however you wish to define those terms), do you think you would still have become an atheist? Sincerely curious.

---

I wouldn't need to be an atheist if it were true.

---

Thanks for the response.

JXL said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "You use science to weigh important practical decisions in the material world. Yet, the NT indicates you should rely upon faith for those decisions."

I am unaware of the New Testament telling me to use faith instead of science for practical decisions. Please cite the specific verses you mean, including chapter and verse. Maybe you are working from an unusual version of the NT.

---

Philippians 4:6, Proverbs 3:5-6 (OT), 1John 5:14-15, John 14:13-14.

---

Philippians 4:6 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God"

Not practical decision, but moral foundation.

Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

Also a matter of sorting moral perspective. The 'understanding' referenced is depending on human wisdom, which often fails.

1 John 5:14-15 "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us."

Again, this is assurance of support and moral guidance, comfort.

John 14:13-14 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

This one finally touches practical requests. Note however, that this specifies asking 'in my [Jesus] name, and talks about glorifying the Father. That is, the request is about how to honor the Father and follow Christ's example, it is not about using God as a magic trick.

The verses you cite are all good and useful, but none of them, for example, suggests not going to a doctor when you are sick, or not fixing things which break, or ignoring responsibilities as a parent or member of society. Your examples demonstrate a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, and of our relationship to God.

---

They all suggest you can rely on god for all of your needs. Nowhere for instance, does it tell you to rely on a doctor for anything. BTW - where in Proverbs 3:5 does it say it is about moral issues? Even you say 'understanding' is a reference to human wisdom (science). The whole Bible is about relying on god for everything.

---

Sorry, you are absolutely projecting nonsense there. For example, suppose I go see my doctor and he advises I sleep earlier each night and eat more vegetables. That in no way suggests I should start vaping, even though he said nothing about vaping, because it's a non-seqitur to the conversation we had.

Now, you should certainly be aware that there have been Christian doctors since the beginning; tradition holds that Luke, the namesake of the Gospel by that name, was a doctor. It's absurd to argue from silence that Christians were somehow discouraged to use the skills of doctors, lawyers, carpenters, etc. just because of a verse counseling us on spiritual guidance.

And you go further, confusing wisdom with knowledge, when they are very different things. Scripture is useful for helping us find wisdom. Science is a tool for knowledge, but not really a guide for wisdom. That''s just one reason many scientists find it necessary to be brought up to speed on ethical practice; their lab experience does not meet that need.

I can only conclude that you do not understand Scripture's value and purpose, which is understandable given your lack of its use. But your statements here are simply false and bigoted.

---

Why does any Christian need a doctor if they have the power of god behind them? 2 Chronicles 16:9

---

Already answered. Try reading my posts before looking for your next trick to "win" the debate.

---

Wisdom is founded on knowledge.

Where does it say Luke was a practicing physician? Further, in those days, physicians practice was based upon superstition and ignorance.

---

Colossians 4:14 refers to Luke as "the beloved physician." The books of Luke and Acts make clear that the author was an educated man. The nonsensical idea that Christians have no need of physicians was refuted by Christ Himself (Matt. 9:12). First-century medicine was not much by 21st century standards but was still quite a bit more advanced than you seem to think.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/daily-life-and-practice/medicine-in-the-ancient-world/

---

I just asked where it said he was a practicing physician. And, in those days physicians were superstitious, ignorant, and borderline sorcerers. Christian Scientists discourage using physicians.

" And, in those days physicians were superstitious, ignorant, and borderline sorcerers"

Complete bilge.

You obviously slept through History class.

Oldbear83 said:

---

" And, in those days physicians were superstitious, ignorant, and borderline sorcerers"

Complete bilge.

You obviously slept through History class.

---

Sounds like you need to rebalance your humors, try yellow bile and phlegm. You'll feel much better.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" And, in those days physicians were superstitious, ignorant, and borderline sorcerers"

Complete bilge.

You obviously slept through History class.

---

Sounds like you need to rebalance your humors, try yellow bile and phlegm. You'll feel much better.

---

He's drawing you into the dead end discussion

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

" And, in those days physicians were superstitious, ignorant, and borderline sorcerers"

Complete bilge.

You obviously slept through History class.

---

Sounds like you need to rebalance your humors, try yellow bile and phlegm. You'll feel much better.

---

Sounds like you're projecting again. And since it's "bile and phlegm", that would make it projectile vomit.

You oughta get that checked.

I had just read a discussion on the four humors as the pinnacle of medical theory in 10th century England, couldn't waste an immediate chance to use the reference.

quash said:

---

I had just read a discussion on the four humors as the pinnacle of medical theory in 10th century England, couldn't waste an immediate chance to use the reference.

---

pearls and swine