https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-children-deaths/2020/09/25/9df39bf4-fdad-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html

Child deaths tied to covid-19 remain remarkably low, months into U.S. pandemic

Quote:

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Covid-19 has become the nation's third-leading cause of death this year, but 18 states had not seen a single fatality among people under 20 as of Sept. 10, according to statistics compiled [url=https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937e4.htm][/url]by the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children's Hospital Association.

Children are much more likely to die of homicides (there were 1,865 in 2016, according to government data), drowning (995) or even fires and burns (340).


Health-care officials recognized early in the outbreak that children were much less likely than adults to become infected with the virus, show symptoms, require hospitalization or die of covid-19. Nearly 80 percent of the deaths linked to the disease are among people 65 and older, one of the defining demographic characteristics of the U.S. outbreak.

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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

Weekly hospitalization rates among all ages first peaked during the week ending April 18 (MMWR week 16), followed by a second peak during the week ending July 18 (MMWR week 29). From the week ending August 1 (MMWR week 31) to the week ending September 19 (MMWR week 38), weekly hospitalization rates declined for all adult age groups. However, over this same time period, weekly rates remained steady for the pediatric age groups. Data for the most recent weeks may change as additional admissions occurring during those weeks are reported.

trey3216 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Florda_mike said:

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TexasScientist said:

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What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

TexasScientist said:

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trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

D. C. Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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trey3216 said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

actually, it is a nominal #. Because it is a categorical data point. As the death count rises, it is going higher "nominally". At the same time, the rate of deaths has been steadily declining. It's closing in on CFR and IFR that are currently similar to many other infectious diseases we are familiar with. The death count is nominally higher, because those other ID's have vaccines and hundreds of other treatments along with millennia of data points for selective immunities. This virus is novel, so it doesn't have that luxury yet.

trey3216 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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trey3216 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Florda_mike said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

actually, it is a nominal #. Because it is a categorical data point. As the death count rises, it is going higher "nominally". At the same time, the rate of deaths has been steadily declining. It's closing in on CFR and IFR that are currently similar to many other infectious diseases we are familiar with. The death count is nominally higher, because those other ID's have vaccines and hundreds of other treatments along with millennia of data points for selective immunities. This virus is novel, so it doesn't have that luxury yet.

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Different definition of nominal. I am describing nominal as in types of data that can be nominal, ordinal, interval or ratio. Counts of deaths in state are not nominal. Names of states by themselves are nominal. If you rank order the states 1-50 in number of deaths or deaths per 100,000 that is ordinal. If you compare the actual numbers, that is ratio-level data since a count has a meaningful zero point. Interval level data does not have a meaningful zero point and, unlike ratio level data, can be negative.

TexasScientist does not seem to know the difference between a rate and a whole number and how to make meaningful comparisons using that knowledge.

Antibody testing would be very interesting (if it was reliable) to see how many Amazon employees had it and did not know it.

https://www.wric.com/business/us-world-business/amazon-reveals-over-19000-workers-got-covid-19/

Amazon reveals over 19,000 workers got COVID-19

Quote:

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Amazon released data Thursday showing that 19,816 employees have tested positive or been presumed positive for COVID-19 since the pandemic began.

The online retail behemoth said in the statement that it chose to share the COVID-19 infection rates among Amazon front-line employees in hopes other companies do the same.

According to the company's own analysis of 1,372,000 Amazon and Whole Foods Market front-line employees across the country, the 19,816 number is substantially lower than the general population rate, as reported by Johns Hopkins University, "accounting for geography and the age composition of our employees to make the data as accurate as possible.

Amazon said it found that the workforce case count would have been 33,952 using the general population rate.

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D. C. Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

D. C. Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

Jacques Strap said:

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https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-county-medical-examiner-says-states-coronavirus-death-count-too-high/34226894#

Milwaukee County medical examiner says state's coronavirus death count too high

Quote:

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State includes deaths from other causes that also list COVID-19 among 'other significant conditions' on death certificate

You think the number they list for Milwaukee County in terms of total COVID deaths is inaccurate?" WISN 12 News reporter asked Milwaukee Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Brian Peterson.
"Yeah, it's too high," Peterson said.

He said the difference is due to the way deaths are recorded.

His office counts only those that list COVID-19 as the cause of death, but the state includes in its total, deaths from other causes that also list COVID among "other significant conditions" on the death certificate.

"They're simply lumping everything into one basket, so if they have COVID anywhere on a death certificate, they're calling that a COVID related death. I don't believe that's true," Peterson said.
"If COVID-19 is listed as a contributing factor by the medical examiner, we will include that," said Traci DeSalvo, of the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

---

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I do not understand the pushback on this. "Covid related" seems fair if there is more than one reason for a death. Rona deaths are not the only times there are multiple contributing factors in a death.

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-county-medical-examiner-says-states-coronavirus-death-count-too-high/34226894#

Milwaukee County medical examiner says state's coronavirus death count too high

Quote:

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State includes deaths from other causes that also list COVID-19 among 'other significant conditions' on death certificate

You think the number they list for Milwaukee County in terms of total COVID deaths is inaccurate?" WISN 12 News reporter asked Milwaukee Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Brian Peterson.
"Yeah, it's too high," Peterson said.

He said the difference is due to the way deaths are recorded.

His office counts only those that list COVID-19 as the cause of death, but the state includes in its total, deaths from other causes that also list COVID among "other significant conditions" on the death certificate.

"They're simply lumping everything into one basket, so if they have COVID anywhere on a death certificate, they're calling that a COVID related death. I don't believe that's true," Peterson said.
"If COVID-19 is listed as a contributing factor by the medical examiner, we will include that," said Traci DeSalvo, of the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

---

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I do not understand the pushback on this. "Covid related" seems fair if there is more than one reason for a death. Rona deaths are not the only times there are multiple contributing factors in a death.

---

High death counts get extra money for the hospitals, but local and state political leaders may not want to be painted as ineffective with high COVID death counts. From a true science standpoint, you would want to be very granular if you wanted to try to identify the impact COVID had on a death. A COVID death of an 80- year old in hospice for example is different from a COVID death of a healthy 50-year-old with no co-morbidity if you are trying to determine how lethal the virus is.

With that said no idea what the agenda of the Milwaukee Chief Medical Examiner is.

From my own personal risk assessment standpoint this is interesting because it leans to the side of COVID being less dangerous for my family. I'm a lot less worried today than I was in March which is why I'm flying, eating in restaurants and staying in hotels again. I still wear a mask to the store, but I don't have much confidence in masks when I see most people wearing them improperly (below the nose or huge opening on the sides) or wearing a crappy mask.

D. C. Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

quash said:

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Jacques Strap said:

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https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-county-medical-examiner-says-states-coronavirus-death-count-too-high/34226894#

Milwaukee County medical examiner says state's coronavirus death count too high

Quote:

---

State includes deaths from other causes that also list COVID-19 among 'other significant conditions' on death certificate

You think the number they list for Milwaukee County in terms of total COVID deaths is inaccurate?" WISN 12 News reporter asked Milwaukee Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Brian Peterson.
"Yeah, it's too high," Peterson said.

He said the difference is due to the way deaths are recorded.

His office counts only those that list COVID-19 as the cause of death, but the state includes in its total, deaths from other causes that also list COVID among "other significant conditions" on the death certificate.

"They're simply lumping everything into one basket, so if they have COVID anywhere on a death certificate, they're calling that a COVID related death. I don't believe that's true," Peterson said.
"If COVID-19 is listed as a contributing factor by the medical examiner, we will include that," said Traci DeSalvo, of the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

---

---

I do not understand the pushback on this. "Covid related" seems fair if there is more than one reason for a death. Rona deaths are not the only times there are multiple contributing factors in a death.

---

It's the same thing with influenza, or any other acute illness with comorbidity. It's what pulled the trigger to cause death.

quash said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-county-medical-examiner-says-states-coronavirus-death-count-too-high/34226894#

Milwaukee County medical examiner says state's coronavirus death count too high

Quote:

---

State includes deaths from other causes that also list COVID-19 among 'other significant conditions' on death certificate

You think the number they list for Milwaukee County in terms of total COVID deaths is inaccurate?" WISN 12 News reporter asked Milwaukee Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Brian Peterson.
"Yeah, it's too high," Peterson said.

He said the difference is due to the way deaths are recorded.

His office counts only those that list COVID-19 as the cause of death, but the state includes in its total, deaths from other causes that also list COVID among "other significant conditions" on the death certificate.

"They're simply lumping everything into one basket, so if they have COVID anywhere on a death certificate, they're calling that a COVID related death. I don't believe that's true," Peterson said.
"If COVID-19 is listed as a contributing factor by the medical examiner, we will include that," said Traci DeSalvo, of the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

---

---

I do not understand the pushback on this. "Covid related" seems fair if there is more than one reason for a death. Rona deaths are not the only times there are multiple contributing factors in a death.

---

I think COVID-related deaths are appropriate to code COVID deaths. However, some COVID patients die of something unrelated to COVID and would have died of that unrelated thing with or without COVID. (Like a motorcycle crash). That seems to be what I have seen complaints about. I don't think those numbers are likely to make a major impact in understanding the course of the pandemic in that I doubt there are huge numbers of people dying of something else unrelated but being coded as COVID-related.

TexasScientist said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

To be clear, Florida is currently the 11th worst state for COVID deaths per capita. It will likely pass Michigan and Illinois soon to move "up to" 9th.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

I don't know how to rank its economic outcome.

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-county-medical-examiner-says-states-coronavirus-death-count-too-high/34226894#

Milwaukee County medical examiner says state's coronavirus death count too high

Quote:

---

State includes deaths from other causes that also list COVID-19 among 'other significant conditions' on death certificate

You think the number they list for Milwaukee County in terms of total COVID deaths is inaccurate?" WISN 12 News reporter asked Milwaukee Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Brian Peterson.
"Yeah, it's too high," Peterson said.

He said the difference is due to the way deaths are recorded.

His office counts only those that list COVID-19 as the cause of death, but the state includes in its total, deaths from other causes that also list COVID among "other significant conditions" on the death certificate.

"They're simply lumping everything into one basket, so if they have COVID anywhere on a death certificate, they're calling that a COVID related death. I don't believe that's true," Peterson said.
"If COVID-19 is listed as a contributing factor by the medical examiner, we will include that," said Traci DeSalvo, of the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.

---

---

I do not understand the pushback on this. "Covid related" seems fair if there is more than one reason for a death. Rona deaths are not the only times there are multiple contributing factors in a death.

---

I think COVID-related deaths are appropriate to code COVID deaths. However, some COVID patients die of something unrelated to COVID and would have died of that unrelated thing with or without COVID. (Like a motorcycle crash). That seems to be what I have seen complaints about. I don't think those numbers are likely to make a major impact in understanding the course of the pandemic in that I doubt there are huge numbers of people dying of something else unrelated but being coded as COVID-related.

---

I would put money on "vanishingly rare".

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

---

I am not "excusing" anything. I am pointing out that you are engaged in deeply flawed reasoning.

Cultural differences would certainly be expected to have a significant effect on how the virus spreads.

Here's how Taiwan did it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-coronavirus-surveillance-masks-china-2020-6

You could not do this in American culture, and you are an idiot if you think you could.

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

---

I am not "excusing" anything. I am pointing out that you are engaged in deeply flawed reasoning.

Cultural differences would certainly be expected to have a significant effect on how the virus spreads.

Here's how Taiwan did it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-coronavirus-surveillance-masks-china-2020-6

You could not do this in American culture, and you are an idiot if you think you could.

---

You absolutely can accomplish the same thing in our culture. You may have to modify some things, but the basics of what they are doing we can do with leadership and strategy from the White House. Cultural differences are a minor part of how the virus spreads. The basics of how it spreads is universal around the world. Any cultural influence is only a means facilitating the same mode and method of virus transmission. There are culturally different countries with success. Put another way again, we have < 5% of the world population and roughly 25% of the global cases and deaths, in a country with resources and means to effectively control it, but for politicization and failed leadership.

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

---

I am not "excusing" anything. I am pointing out that you are engaged in deeply flawed reasoning.

Cultural differences would certainly be expected to have a significant effect on how the virus spreads.

Here's how Taiwan did it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-coronavirus-surveillance-masks-china-2020-6

You could not do this in American culture, and you are an idiot if you think you could.

---

You absolutely can accomplish the same thing in our culture. You may have to modify some things, but the basics of what they are doing we can do with leadership and strategy from the White House. Cultural differences are a minor part of how the virus spreads. The basics of how it spreads is universal around the world. Any cultural influence is only a means facilitating the same mode and method of virus transmission. There are culturally different countries with success. Put another way again, we have < 5% of the world population and roughly 25% of the global cases and deaths, in a country with resources and means to effectively control it, but for politicization and failed leadership.

---

Good luck at installing a police state overnight in the United States.

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

---

That's not the way IFR is calculated. Think about it.

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

---

I am not "excusing" anything. I am pointing out that you are engaged in deeply flawed reasoning.

Cultural differences would certainly be expected to have a significant effect on how the virus spreads.

Here's how Taiwan did it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-coronavirus-surveillance-masks-china-2020-6

You could not do this in American culture, and you are an idiot if you think you could.

---

You absolutely can accomplish the same thing in our culture. You may have to modify some things, but the basics of what they are doing we can do with leadership and strategy from the White House. Cultural differences are a minor part of how the virus spreads. The basics of how it spreads is universal around the world. Any cultural influence is only a means facilitating the same mode and method of virus transmission. There are culturally different countries with success. Put another way again, we have < 5% of the world population and roughly 25% of the global cases and deaths, in a country with resources and means to effectively control it, but for politicization and failed leadership.

---

Good luck at installing a police state overnight in the United States.

---

It doesn't require a police state. It requires leadership and effective communication, education, persuasion and encouragement of people to cooperate for common public health and safety.

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

---

I am not "excusing" anything. I am pointing out that you are engaged in deeply flawed reasoning.

Cultural differences would certainly be expected to have a significant effect on how the virus spreads.

Here's how Taiwan did it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-coronavirus-surveillance-masks-china-2020-6

You could not do this in American culture, and you are an idiot if you think you could.

---

You absolutely can accomplish the same thing in our culture. You may have to modify some things, but the basics of what they are doing we can do with leadership and strategy from the White House. Cultural differences are a minor part of how the virus spreads. The basics of how it spreads is universal around the world. Any cultural influence is only a means facilitating the same mode and method of virus transmission. There are culturally different countries with success. Put another way again, we have < 5% of the world population and roughly 25% of the global cases and deaths, in a country with resources and means to effectively control it, but for politicization and failed leadership.

---

Good luck at installing a police state overnight in the United States.

---

It doesn't require a police state. It requires leadership and effective communication, education, persuasion and encouragement of people to cooperate for common public health and safety.

---

Translating TS:

"Leadership" - government deciding what rights they will allow citizens
"Effective communication" - fines and arrests of anyone who complains
"Education" - the State is always right (cf North Korea)
"Persuasion" - fines and arrests
"Encouragement to cooperate" - media propaganda and arrests
"Safety" - incarceration in your own home

With all due respect, hell no.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

---

That's not the way IFR is calculated. Think about it.

---

Infection Fatality Ratio (IFR): The number of individuals who die of the disease among all infected individuals (symptomatic and asymptomatic). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20individuals%20who,symptomatic%20and%20asymptomatic).

COVID stat of the week. When we were shutdown in March, the already overweight Booray household went all in on cooking from home. Plus working from home gave us way too many snacking opportunities. Wearing sweats all the time made it easy to ignore.

Come May I couldn't see my feet. Determined that if I died from COVID I would not let you right wingers claim it was based on co-morbidity, Mrs. Booray and I u-turned. Five months of eating healthy and exercising meant when I stepped on the scale today I was out of the "obese" category as measured by BMI.

Getting out of the overweight category is prettty tough, but it is good to have a goal.

Jacques Strap said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

---

That's not the way IFR is calculated. Think about it.

---

Infection Fatality Ratio (IFR): The number of individuals who die of the disease among all infected individuals (symptomatic and asymptomatic). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20individuals%20who,symptomatic%20and%20asymptomatic).

---

You're mixing apples and oranges.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

---

That's not the way IFR is calculated. Think about it.

---

Infection Fatality Ratio (IFR): The number of individuals who die of the disease among all infected individuals (symptomatic and asymptomatic). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20individuals%20who,symptomatic%20and%20asymptomatic).

---

You're mixing apples and oranges.

---

Can you explain it a bit? I know there are a lot of different measures, but I haven't sorted through all of them.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

---

That's not the way IFR is calculated. Think about it.

---

Infection Fatality Ratio (IFR): The number of individuals who die of the disease among all infected individuals (symptomatic and asymptomatic). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20individuals%20who,symptomatic%20and%20asymptomatic).

---

You're mixing apples and oranges.

---

Can you explain it a bit? I know there are a lot of different measures, but I haven't sorted through all of them.

---

He's comparing documented covid deaths with estimated total cases. The proper comparison is estimated deaths/estimated cases (IFR) or confirmed deaths/confirmed cases (CFR).

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Jacques Strap said:

---

1,033,678 deaths (Johns Hopkins) / 750,000,000 cases (WHO) = 0.13% infection fatality rate (a little more than 1/10th of one percent)


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

WHO official estimates that 750m people globally have likely had coronavirus to date

Quote:

---

An estimated 750 million, or 10 per cent of the world's population, have been infected by Covid-19, World Health Organisation (WHO) official Dr Mike Ryan has said.

---

---

That's not the way IFR is calculated. Think about it.

---

Infection Fatality Ratio (IFR): The number of individuals who die of the disease among all infected individuals (symptomatic and asymptomatic). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20individuals%20who,symptomatic%20and%20asymptomatic).

---

You're mixing apples and oranges.

---

The CDC IFR formula is fatalities / cases (both symptomatic & asymptomatic) whether you like it or not.

If you don't like the WHO's case count estimate which includes asymptomatic cases - just say you don't believe the WHO's numbers.

If by your apples to oranges comment you are advocating for using only positive tests as your case count for the denominator then you are ignoring asymptomatic cases. Serology testing indicates that there are many who had the virus and were asymptomatic.

More here
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v1.full.pdf

Quote:

---

Dynamic Change of COVID-19 Seroprevalence among Asymptomatic Population in Tokyo during the Second Wave

Serological tests monitored across the course of the second wave can provide insights into the population-level prevalence and dynamic patterns of COVID-19 infection. Objective: To assess changes in COVID-19 seroprevalence among asymptomatic employees working in Tokyo during the second wave.

Participants: Healthy volunteers from 1877 employees of a large Japanese company were recruited to the study from 11 disparate locations across Tokyo. Participants having fever, cough, or shortness of breath at the time of testing were excluded.

Results: Six hundred fifteen healthy volunteers (mean + SD 40.8 + 10.0; range 19 - 69; 45.7 % female) received at least one test. Seroprevalence increased from 5.8 % to 46.8 % over the course of the summer. The most dramatic increase in SPR occurred in late June and early July, paralleling the rise in daily confirmed cases within Tokyo,

Conclusions and Relevance: COVID-19 infection may have spread widely across the general population of Tokyo despite the very low fatality rate.
. Sequential testing for serological response against COVID-19 is useful for understanding the dynamics of COVID-19 infection at the population-level.

---

Booray said:

---

COVID stat of the week. When we were shutdown in March, the already overweight Booray household went all in on cooking from home. Plus working from home gave us way too many snacking opportunities. Wearing sweats all the time made it easy to ignore.

Come May I couldn't see my feet. Determined that if I died from COVID I would not let you right wingers claim it was based on co-morbidity, Mrs. Booray and I u-turned. Five months of eating healthy and exercising meant when I stepped on the scale today I was out of the "obese" category as measured by BMI.

Getting out of the overweight category is prettty tough, but it is good to have a goal.

---

Good for you!

I'm down 15 pounds from the high and not done yet. It isn't easy with so much access to the pantry

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

What else would you expect from DeSantis. DeSantis is one of the main causal factors for Florida having the 5th highest death rate in the US.

---

Sounds like DeSantis and Trump are synonymous to this liar

5th highest? LMAO

As we had New Yorkers running from democrat bastion NY to our state

---

Truth = 5th 14,022 deaths. I don't think their families are "LMAO."

Or, sounds like your regular ad hominem attacks are synonymous with your indefensible views.

---

Sounds like you don't know what a rate is, as opposed to a nominal number.

---

14,000 and climbing is not a nominal number, and the rate is not something to dismiss as insignificant. A misstep in word choice doesn't negate reality.

---

You are correct that it isn't a "nominal number" as nominal would refer to refer to categorical data. It is a whole number. It is not, as you earlier claimed, a rate. When considering data to determine how big a number is compared with other numbers, a rate is the appropriate way to do that analysis. If one city has a population of one million and 100 people die, that is a very different scenario from a city with 150 people where 100 people die. In this case, you misrepresented the data. Maybe it was an honest mistake because you are ignorant, maybe you are just a liar. It seems clear that you sought to make Florida look much worse than it actually is compared to other states.

---

I understand rate and I think you know that, since you obviously read and commented on my latest post. You're down in the statistical woods now. The fact is 14,000 and growing deaths is significant and serious, and Florida is one of the worst in terms of deaths. And based on the rates posted above, it is one of the worst in rates if 15th is correct. Florida has greater than 14,000 deaths in large part due to how the Governor has responded to the crisis by following Trump's lead. Only willful disregard for political reasons, or ignorance prevents your recognition of the facts.

---

Florida is about average in the United States when it comes to COVID death rates per 100,000 of population. This is not an instance of being "one of the worst in terms of death," this is a case of being right in the middle in terms of deaths.

Florida also has a higher percentage of old people (more susceptible to dying from the virus) than any other state. One would expect them to have, all other things being equal, a higher rate of deaths from COVID than other states based on the larger percentage of their population in the 75-plus age bracket.

The numbers don't lie. Only willful disregard for basic statistical analysis, likely for political reasons, or your ignorance, prevents you from recognizing that Florida is not an outlier among the states when it comes to COVID deaths.

---

What you ignore is that the total deaths in this country were unnecessary and avoidable. Florida has a huge death count, not to mention the US total, because we ignored the science. Taiwan has a larger population than Florida, higher population density, and the last I checked 7 deaths and viable economy. All because, as Taiwan's former VP says, they followed science. We've half heartedly given a token scientific response to this pandemic for political purposes, and now we have over 200,000 deaths and climbing, not to mention the 'long haul' morbidity we are just now beginning to recognize.

---

Your argument was specifically about Florida and it was that Florida, because of the policies it implemented, was much worse than other states in the United States. That argument is not supported by the data.

If you would like to concede that you were wrong and try another argument, you are free to do so. You are not, however, free to pretend that you were correct in your initial argument by trying to move the goalposts with another argument.

---

My whole approach throughout all of these various threads is that US (Florida) policies have failed. When you get to the bottom line of this, you shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another because they all are abject failures in terms of death count and probably morbidity. You have to stand US (Florida) policy up against other successful countries in terms of death count, which is what really matters, and the US (Florida) fail miserably. There is a reason we lead the world in global death count and Covid cases, and patting ourselves on the back won't change that. - - - And Florida is worse than many other states, not that that says much - they're all bad.

---

If you "shouldn't evaluate/compare one state against another," then why did you do exactly that?

As for Florida being "worse than many other states," that's what "average" means. It is worse than many other state and better than many other states.

It is just as likely, probably moreso, that the reason we lead the world in global death count has to do with the fact that we are populous, old and fat than it does with particular government policies being different from those in some other country. There may also be any number of other reasons for variations in death rates, including preexisting immunity or genetic variation, but you are immediately jumping to the idea that government policy is the cause of any variance in the course of the pandemic. Your reasoning also ignores the cultural differences between the United States and many other nations. In short, you aren't using sound reasoning to come to your conclusions.

---

Sure I am. You're trying to excuse the inexcusable. What you say is a factor in deaths, but it is not the determining factor in stopping or controlling the virus. The virus doesn't distinguish cultural differences. It's a biological acting pathogen. Science on how to control this virus is universally the same. Those countries that have committed the resources, followed the science, regardless of culture or health demographics have been successful, because the virus is controlled before it can get widespread into the health compromised populous. We are third or fourth in world population and have 25% of the global deaths, in spite of being one of the better in health care.

---

I am not "excusing" anything. I am pointing out that you are engaged in deeply flawed reasoning.

Cultural differences would certainly be expected to have a significant effect on how the virus spreads.

Here's how Taiwan did it:

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-coronavirus-surveillance-masks-china-2020-6

You could not do this in American culture, and you are an idiot if you think you could.

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You absolutely can accomplish the same thing in our culture. You may have to modify some things, but the basics of what they are doing we can do with leadership and strategy from the White House. Cultural differences are a minor part of how the virus spreads. The basics of how it spreads is universal around the world. Any cultural influence is only a means facilitating the same mode and method of virus transmission. There are culturally different countries with success. Put another way again, we have < 5% of the world population and roughly 25% of the global cases and deaths, in a country with resources and means to effectively control it, but for politicization and failed leadership.

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Good luck at installing a police state overnight in the United States.

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It doesn't require a police state. It requires leadership and effective communication, education, persuasion and encouragement of people to cooperate for common public health and safety.

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Translating TS:

"Leadership" - government deciding what rights they will allow citizens
"Effective communication" - fines and arrests of anyone who complains
"Education" - the State is always right (cf North Korea)
"Persuasion" - fines and arrests
"Encouragement to cooperate" - media propaganda and arrests
"Safety" - incarceration in your own home

With all due respect, hell no.

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With all due respect, I would expect out of your lack of understanding, intolerance for inconvenience, and self interest, for you to carry the simple to the extreme, with no concern for others. The same attitude permeated the super spreader event on the White House lawn. We would have lost WWII with your mindset. People shouldn't have to die in these numbers, just because you don't want to be inconvenienced.