I did admit to the indisputable facts. Show me the thread where I didn't. See that's the difference between you and me. I think both sides are corrupt as fck. You and your fcktard binaries think only the other side is corrupt.HuMcK said:
Last time we did this the conversation ended with you refusing to even acknowledge basic accepted facts backed up by indisputable evidence, instead pivoting to some more "both side" stupidity. You feel like getting check-mated again?
So we need another Russian collusion investigation based on an editorial that lacks evidence?bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
Oldbear83 said:
"All the evidence was presented in court."
That old lie.
The courts rejected the cases on standing , never got the point of presenting evidence.
But irrelevant to this Russia hysteria by the Left
They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Not all of them were on standing, and Sam has extensively explaine that to you.Oldbear83 said:
"All the evidence was presented in court."
That old lie.
The courts rejected the cases on standing , never got the point of presenting evidence.
But irrelevant to this Russia hysteria by the Left
And yet, R's are going to vote against preventing Trump from holding federal office again. Have we learned nothing?Mothra said:So we need another Russian collusion investigation based on an editorial that lacks evidence?bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
Have we learned nothing?
The boogeyman launched a failed assault on the Capitol that could have ended in deaths of elected officials.Oldbear83 said:
And yet you fear Trump enough that you bring him up daily as some kind of bogeyman.
If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
The courts are obligated to and will hear valid claims. None were presented, and you can't present any credible evidence to support your claim. The mass mail voting is where there is opportunity for mischief. The problem is the Republican legislatures made it legal to mail ballots to every registed voter, which leaves the process wide open for ballot harvesting. How much of that, if any, went on can't be easily proven. The Republican legislatures in those states need to change their voting laws, or they'll continue to get a flood of mail in ballots in future elections.Bearitto said:Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
And courts fabricated ever possible reason they could not to hear it. Courts don't like ruling on election questions. There's a palpable terror that they'd demonstrate wide scale fraud and then out goes faith in the electoral process.
Of course they should expose it to fix it. They should expose it to prevent the left from fabricating accusations of racism every time a solution is presented. We need indelible ink fingers and voter id. Instead we get voting after Election Day, no identification checks, confidential algorithms, barring of election monitors and mass mail voting.
I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden you're horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Oldbear83 said:
"All the evidence was presented in court."
That old lie.
The courts rejected the cases on standing , never got the point of presenting evidence.
But irrelevant to this Russia hysteria by the Left
Personally, I would rather the R's follow the law than do what opinion polls want them to do. It's always better to do what is right than what is popular.TexasScientist said:And yet, R's are going to vote against preventing Trump from holding federal office again. Have we learned nothing?Mothra said:So we need another Russian collusion investigation based on an editorial that lacks evidence?bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
Have we learned nothing?
No wonder you are obsessed with Q Anon people. They are your cousins.TexasScientist said:
The perfect target': Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years ex-KGB spy
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book
Donald Trump was cultivated as a Russian asset over 40 years and proved so willing to parrot anti-western propaganda that there were celebrations in Moscow, a former KGB spy has told the Guardian.
Yuri Shvets, posted to Washington by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, compares the former US president to "the Cambridge five", the British spy ring that passed secrets to Moscow during the second world war and early cold war.
Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president's relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.
"This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump," Shvets said by phone on Monday from his home in Virginia.
Shvets, a KGB major, had a cover job as a correspondent in Washington for the Russian news agency Tass during the 1980s. He moved to the US permanently in 1993 and gained American citizenship. He works as a corporate security investigator and was a partner of Alexander Litvinenko, who was assassinated in London in 2006.
Unger describes how Trump first appeared on the Russians' radar in 1977 when he married his first wife, Ivana Zelnickova, a Czech model. Trump became the target of a spying operation overseen by Czechoslovakia's intelligence service in cooperation with the KGB.
Three years later Trump opened his first big property development, the Grand Hyatt New York hotel near Grand Central station. Trump bought 200 television sets for the hotel from Semyon Kislin, a Soviet migr who co-owned Joy-Lud electronics on Fifth Avenue
According to Shvets, Joy-Lud was controlled by the KGB and Kislin worked as a so-called "spotter agent" who identified Trump, a young businessman on the rise, as a potential asset. Kislin denies that he had a relationship with the KGB.
Then, in 1987, Trump and Ivana visited Moscow and St Petersburg for the first time. Shvets said he was fed KGB talking points and flattered by KGB operatives who floated the idea that he should go into politics.
The ex-major recalled: "For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery.
"This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time."
Soon after he returned to the US, Trump began exploring a run for the Republican nomination for president and even held a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. On 1 September, he took out a full-page advertin the New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe headlined: "There's nothing wrong with America's Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can't cure."
The ad offered some highly unorthodox opinions in Ronald Reagan's cold war America, accusing ally Japan of exploiting the US and expressing scepticism about US participation in Nato. It took the form of an open letter to the American people "on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves".
The bizarre intervention was cause for astonishment and jubilation in Russia. A few days later Shvets, who had returned home by now, was at the headquarters of the KGB's first chief directorate in Yasenevo when he received a cable celebrating the ad as a successful "active measure" executed by a new KGB asset.
"It was unprecedented. I am pretty well familiar with KGB active measures starting in the early 70s and 80s, and then afterwards with Russia active measures, and I haven't heard anything like that or anything similar until Trump became the president of this country because it was just silly. It was hard to believe that somebody would publish it under his name and that it will impress real serious people in the west but it did and, finally, this guy became the president."
Trump's election win in 2016 was again welcomed by Moscow. Special counsel Robert Mueller did not establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. But the Moscow Project, an initiative of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, found the Trump campaign and transition team had at least 272 known contacts and at least 38 known meetings with Russia-linked operatives.
Shvets, who has carried out his own investigation, said: "For me, the Mueller report was a big disappointment because people expected that it will be a thorough investigation of all ties between Trump and Moscow, when in fact what we got was an investigation of just crime-related issues. There were no counterintelligence aspects of the relationship between Trump and Moscow."
He added: "This is what basically we decided to correct. So I did my investigation and then got together with Craig. So we believe that his book will pick up where Mueller left off."
Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: "He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we're going to develop this guy and 40 years later he'll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people."
"Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election."
The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
Sentence 1, but you do.TexasScientist said:I didn't say I believed it. I just thought it was interesting and something to consider. I do think Russia would try to exploit Trump to the greatest extent they could: "The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery." The article is not implausible.OsoCoreyell said:Wow. And you criticize others for believing in nonsense conspiracy theories? Just pathetic.TexasScientist said:
The perfect target': Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years ex-KGB spy
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book
Donald Trump was cultivated as a Russian asset over 40 years and proved so willing to parrot anti-western propaganda that there were celebrations in Moscow, a former KGB spy has told the Guardian.
Yuri Shvets, posted to Washington by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, compares the former US president to "the Cambridge five", the British spy ring that passed secrets to Moscow during the second world war and early cold war.
Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president's relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.
"This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump," Shvets said by phone on Monday from his home in Virginia.
Shvets, a KGB major, had a cover job as a correspondent in Washington for the Russian news agency Tass during the 1980s. He moved to the US permanently in 1993 and gained American citizenship. He works as a corporate security investigator and was a partner of Alexander Litvinenko, who was assassinated in London in 2006.
Unger describes how Trump first appeared on the Russians' radar in 1977 when he married his first wife, Ivana Zelnickova, a Czech model. Trump became the target of a spying operation overseen by Czechoslovakia's intelligence service in cooperation with the KGB.
Three years later Trump opened his first big property development, the Grand Hyatt New York hotel near Grand Central station. Trump bought 200 television sets for the hotel from Semyon Kislin, a Soviet migr who co-owned Joy-Lud electronics on Fifth Avenue
According to Shvets, Joy-Lud was controlled by the KGB and Kislin worked as a so-called "spotter agent" who identified Trump, a young businessman on the rise, as a potential asset. Kislin denies that he had a relationship with the KGB.
Then, in 1987, Trump and Ivana visited Moscow and St Petersburg for the first time. Shvets said he was fed KGB talking points and flattered by KGB operatives who floated the idea that he should go into politics.
The ex-major recalled: "For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery.
"This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time."
Soon after he returned to the US, Trump began exploring a run for the Republican nomination for president and even held a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. On 1 September, he took out a full-page advertin the New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe headlined: "There's nothing wrong with America's Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can't cure."
The ad offered some highly unorthodox opinions in Ronald Reagan's cold war America, accusing ally Japan of exploiting the US and expressing scepticism about US participation in Nato. It took the form of an open letter to the American people "on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves".
The bizarre intervention was cause for astonishment and jubilation in Russia. A few days later Shvets, who had returned home by now, was at the headquarters of the KGB's first chief directorate in Yasenevo when he received a cable celebrating the ad as a successful "active measure" executed by a new KGB asset.
"It was unprecedented. I am pretty well familiar with KGB active measures starting in the early 70s and 80s, and then afterwards with Russia active measures, and I haven't heard anything like that or anything similar until Trump became the president of this country because it was just silly. It was hard to believe that somebody would publish it under his name and that it will impress real serious people in the west but it did and, finally, this guy became the president."
Trump's election win in 2016 was again welcomed by Moscow. Special counsel Robert Mueller did not establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. But the Moscow Project, an initiative of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, found the Trump campaign and transition team had at least 272 known contacts and at least 38 known meetings with Russia-linked operatives.
Shvets, who has carried out his own investigation, said: "For me, the Mueller report was a big disappointment because people expected that it will be a thorough investigation of all ties between Trump and Moscow, when in fact what we got was an investigation of just crime-related issues. There were no counterintelligence aspects of the relationship between Trump and Moscow."
He added: "This is what basically we decided to correct. So I did my investigation and then got together with Craig. So we believe that his book will pick up where Mueller left off."
Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: "He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we're going to develop this guy and 40 years later he'll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people."
"Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election."
1. You don't know what I believe, anymore than I don't know if you believe in Q, although I suspect you do.CHP Bear said:Sentence 1, but you do.TexasScientist said:I didn't say I believed it. I just thought it was interesting and something to consider. I do think Russia would try to exploit Trump to the greatest extent they could: "The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery." The article is not implausible.OsoCoreyell said:Wow. And you criticize others for believing in nonsense conspiracy theories? Just pathetic.TexasScientist said:
The perfect target': Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years ex-KGB spy
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book
Donald Trump was cultivated as a Russian asset over 40 years and proved so willing to parrot anti-western propaganda that there were celebrations in Moscow, a former KGB spy has told the Guardian.
Yuri Shvets, posted to Washington by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, compares the former US president to "the Cambridge five", the British spy ring that passed secrets to Moscow during the second world war and early cold war.
Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president's relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.
"This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump," Shvets said by phone on Monday from his home in Virginia.
Shvets, a KGB major, had a cover job as a correspondent in Washington for the Russian news agency Tass during the 1980s. He moved to the US permanently in 1993 and gained American citizenship. He works as a corporate security investigator and was a partner of Alexander Litvinenko, who was assassinated in London in 2006.
Unger describes how Trump first appeared on the Russians' radar in 1977 when he married his first wife, Ivana Zelnickova, a Czech model. Trump became the target of a spying operation overseen by Czechoslovakia's intelligence service in cooperation with the KGB.
Three years later Trump opened his first big property development, the Grand Hyatt New York hotel near Grand Central station. Trump bought 200 television sets for the hotel from Semyon Kislin, a Soviet migr who co-owned Joy-Lud electronics on Fifth Avenue
According to Shvets, Joy-Lud was controlled by the KGB and Kislin worked as a so-called "spotter agent" who identified Trump, a young businessman on the rise, as a potential asset. Kislin denies that he had a relationship with the KGB.
Then, in 1987, Trump and Ivana visited Moscow and St Petersburg for the first time. Shvets said he was fed KGB talking points and flattered by KGB operatives who floated the idea that he should go into politics.
The ex-major recalled: "For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery.
"This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time."
Soon after he returned to the US, Trump began exploring a run for the Republican nomination for president and even held a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. On 1 September, he took out a full-page advertin the New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe headlined: "There's nothing wrong with America's Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can't cure."
The ad offered some highly unorthodox opinions in Ronald Reagan's cold war America, accusing ally Japan of exploiting the US and expressing scepticism about US participation in Nato. It took the form of an open letter to the American people "on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves".
The bizarre intervention was cause for astonishment and jubilation in Russia. A few days later Shvets, who had returned home by now, was at the headquarters of the KGB's first chief directorate in Yasenevo when he received a cable celebrating the ad as a successful "active measure" executed by a new KGB asset.
"It was unprecedented. I am pretty well familiar with KGB active measures starting in the early 70s and 80s, and then afterwards with Russia active measures, and I haven't heard anything like that or anything similar until Trump became the president of this country because it was just silly. It was hard to believe that somebody would publish it under his name and that it will impress real serious people in the west but it did and, finally, this guy became the president."
Trump's election win in 2016 was again welcomed by Moscow. Special counsel Robert Mueller did not establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. But the Moscow Project, an initiative of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, found the Trump campaign and transition team had at least 272 known contacts and at least 38 known meetings with Russia-linked operatives.
Shvets, who has carried out his own investigation, said: "For me, the Mueller report was a big disappointment because people expected that it will be a thorough investigation of all ties between Trump and Moscow, when in fact what we got was an investigation of just crime-related issues. There were no counterintelligence aspects of the relationship between Trump and Moscow."
He added: "This is what basically we decided to correct. So I did my investigation and then got together with Craig. So we believe that his book will pick up where Mueller left off."
Unger, the author of seven books and a former contributing editor for Vanity Fair magazine, said of Trump: "He was an asset. It was not this grand, ingenious plan that we're going to develop this guy and 40 years later he'll be president. At the time it started, which was around 1980, the Russians were trying to recruit like crazy and going after dozens and dozens of people."
"Trump was the perfect target in a lot of ways: his vanity, narcissism made him a natural target to recruit. He was cultivated over a 40-year period, right up through his election."
Sentence 2, Russia would try exploiting any POTUS
Sentence 3, opinion and who in this world isn't prone to flattery.
Sentence 4, implausible and belief in the article are synonymous in your mind.
Hell the Georgia admins spent more time looking for their lost tv remote than they did for fraud. Nice try though. There were no investigations, no media digging, no liberals concerned at all. Nothing.TexasScientist said:The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
When Trump gets out of the Republican Party and politics, I'll shut up about him. People of conscience have to speak out against Trump and his radicals. Biden is a whole different matter and subject. So far he has not proven the existential threat to the country that Trump was. It's too early to really grade him and he deserves an opportunity to get his feet on the ground. However, so far in the very early going, I give him an A on Covid response, an incomplete on foreign policy, a B on truthfulness, and a D on domestic policy. In the end, Trump failed at almost everything, F- in truthfulness (not in his wheelhouse), foreign policy, and Covid response, and being generous, a D for domestic policy.
Reality says you are wrong. If there were truth in what you said, the GA admins who are REPUBLICANS would have been all over it. You're drunk on conspiracy elixir. Sober up and let reality take hold.Rawhide said:Hell the Georgia admins spent more time looking for their lost tv remote than they did for fraud. Nice try though. There were no investigations, no media digging, no liberals concerned at all. Nothing.TexasScientist said:The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
When Trump gets out of the Republican Party and politics, I'll shut up about him. People of conscience have to speak out against Trump and his radicals. Biden is a whole different matter and subject. So far he has not proven the existential threat to the country that Trump was. It's too early to really grade him and he deserves an opportunity to get his feet on the ground. However, so far in the very early going, I give him an A on Covid response, an incomplete on foreign policy, a B on truthfulness, and a D on domestic policy. In the end, Trump failed at almost everything, F- in truthfulness (not in his wheelhouse), foreign policy, and Covid response, and being generous, a D for domestic policy.
You should really seek help TS. You're infatuation with Trump is unhealthy.
You give an "A" to biden for covid response..... that's friggin' hilarious. Even for a liberal, you reached far up your ass for that "A".
Just because a politician says their a Republican, doesn't mean they are a real life conservative. The GOP is full of RINOs.TexasScientist said:Reality says you are wrong. If there were truth in what you said, the GA admins who are REPUBLICANS would have been all over it. You're drunk on conspiracy elixir. Sober up and let reality take hold.Rawhide said:Hell the Georgia admins spent more time looking for their lost tv remote than they did for fraud. Nice try though. There were no investigations, no media digging, no liberals concerned at all. Nothing.TexasScientist said:The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
When Trump gets out of the Republican Party and politics, I'll shut up about him. People of conscience have to speak out against Trump and his radicals. Biden is a whole different matter and subject. So far he has not proven the existential threat to the country that Trump was. It's too early to really grade him and he deserves an opportunity to get his feet on the ground. However, so far in the very early going, I give him an A on Covid response, an incomplete on foreign policy, a B on truthfulness, and a D on domestic policy. In the end, Trump failed at almost everything, F- in truthfulness (not in his wheelhouse), foreign policy, and Covid response, and being generous, a D for domestic policy.
You should really seek help TS. You're infatuation with Trump is unhealthy.
You give an "A" to biden for covid response..... that's friggin' hilarious. Even for a liberal, you reached far up your ass for that "A".
What I said above especially applies to you.Oldbear83 said:
TS: "Reality says you are wrong."
Actually, Reality says you have a paranoid obsession with Trump which poisons your judgment and makes you look like someone women tell their children to slowly back away from.
When you don't have an answer, you resort to the vulgar. What would Jesus say?Rawhide said:Just because a politician says their a Republican, doesn't mean they are a real life conservative. The GOP is full of RINOs.TexasScientist said:Reality says you are wrong. If there were truth in what you said, the GA admins who are REPUBLICANS would have been all over it. You're drunk on conspiracy elixir. Sober up and let reality take hold.Rawhide said:Hell the Georgia admins spent more time looking for their lost tv remote than they did for fraud. Nice try though. There were no investigations, no media digging, no liberals concerned at all. Nothing.TexasScientist said:The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
When Trump gets out of the Republican Party and politics, I'll shut up about him. People of conscience have to speak out against Trump and his radicals. Biden is a whole different matter and subject. So far he has not proven the existential threat to the country that Trump was. It's too early to really grade him and he deserves an opportunity to get his feet on the ground. However, so far in the very early going, I give him an A on Covid response, an incomplete on foreign policy, a B on truthfulness, and a D on domestic policy. In the end, Trump failed at almost everything, F- in truthfulness (not in his wheelhouse), foreign policy, and Covid response, and being generous, a D for domestic policy.
You should really seek help TS. You're infatuation with Trump is unhealthy.
You give an "A" to biden for covid response..... that's friggin' hilarious. Even for a liberal, you reached far up your ass for that "A".
Like I said, no real investigations, no real digging, no concern.
Here's a reality check for ya'... Trump isn't in the current president, but please keep posting BS about him, you seem to be stuck on his dick.
Biden is too busy working with China and corrupt officials in the Ukraine...George Truett said:I don't know if the OP is true, but Trump's deference to Putin was concerning. Was it just an admiration for a strong man dictator? Was it financial entanglements with Putin?Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
This cant be true
Can it?
I'm hopeful that maybe the Biden Administration will be able to bring some of that to light, but I don't think it should be a priority. Let the state courts torture Trump.
I too want to move on from Trump, but McCarthy's trip to Mara Lago to kiss the ring suggests that we're not going to be able to anytime soon.
You are wrong yet again.TexasScientist said:What I said above especially applies to you.Oldbear83 said:
TS: "Reality says you are wrong."
Actually, Reality says you have a paranoid obsession with Trump which poisons your judgment and makes you look like someone women tell their children to slowly back away from.
You are officially TexasCinquentistTexasScientist said:When you don't have an answer, you resort to the vulgar. What would Jesus say?Rawhide said:Just because a politician says their a Republican, doesn't mean they are a real life conservative. The GOP is full of RINOs.TexasScientist said:Reality says you are wrong. If there were truth in what you said, the GA admins who are REPUBLICANS would have been all over it. You're drunk on conspiracy elixir. Sober up and let reality take hold.Rawhide said:Hell the Georgia admins spent more time looking for their lost tv remote than they did for fraud. Nice try though. There were no investigations, no media digging, no liberals concerned at all. Nothing.TexasScientist said:The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
When Trump gets out of the Republican Party and politics, I'll shut up about him. People of conscience have to speak out against Trump and his radicals. Biden is a whole different matter and subject. So far he has not proven the existential threat to the country that Trump was. It's too early to really grade him and he deserves an opportunity to get his feet on the ground. However, so far in the very early going, I give him an A on Covid response, an incomplete on foreign policy, a B on truthfulness, and a D on domestic policy. In the end, Trump failed at almost everything, F- in truthfulness (not in his wheelhouse), foreign policy, and Covid response, and being generous, a D for domestic policy.
You should really seek help TS. You're infatuation with Trump is unhealthy.
You give an "A" to biden for covid response..... that's friggin' hilarious. Even for a liberal, you reached far up your ass for that "A".
Like I said, no real investigations, no real digging, no concern.
Here's a reality check for ya'... Trump isn't in the current president, but please keep posting BS about him, you seem to be stuck on his dick.
Trump (not a conservative) is still trying to influence and manipulate the Republican Party for his own personal benefit, and he is the subject of an impeachment trial. When he steps aside and quits seeking to have political influence, and follow the precedent of previous presidents, I'll shut up.
I apologize from my vulgar. I should've said that you're still stuck on his *****.TexasScientist said:When you don't have an answer, you resort to the vulgar. What would Jesus say?Rawhide said:Just because a politician says their a Republican, doesn't mean they are a real life conservative. The GOP is full of RINOs.TexasScientist said:Reality says you are wrong. If there were truth in what you said, the GA admins who are REPUBLICANS would have been all over it. You're drunk on conspiracy elixir. Sober up and let reality take hold.Rawhide said:Hell the Georgia admins spent more time looking for their lost tv remote than they did for fraud. Nice try though. There were no investigations, no media digging, no liberals concerned at all. Nothing.TexasScientist said:The problem, is in most instances, there was nothing found to investigate when it was looked into. The Georgia SOS elections administrators gave an extensive press conference where he went through each of the allegations, one by one, and explained what they found and why they were wrong. They found virtually nothing wrong, and where there was an issue the acknowledged it. For example, the Georgia SOS investigated the alleged claims of two thousand dead people voting. They only found two instances. All of the others were misinformation, based upon misunderstanding of people with the same name (someone's son) or address. Nothing significant panned out.Rawhide said:I don't watch or listen to 24 hour cable news.TexasScientist said:If you only listen to Fox or Newsmax. Broaden your horizons. The Secretary of States for Penn, and Georgia explained and produce evidence that refuted every 'allegation' presented. There was nothing to investigate. They went to great lengths to debunk, and debunked everything that Rudy and Sidney threw out there. In court they produced nothing.Rawhide said:They were not investigated. Hell, they weren't even "looked into". They were ignored. From the get go.TexasScientist said:The allegations looked into and raised by the Trump campaign and the allegations were conclusively answered by state officials.Rawhide said:They didn't investigate it.bubbadog said:I saw a lot of reporting about it.Rawhide said:Funny... I didn't see the media dig any further into the election fraud allegations. The fact the republican watchers were either denied access to vote counts or stuck so far away from the actual counting, covering up the windows in detroit, the numerous witness affidavits, etc...bubbadog said:If this were about, say, emoluments, I would agree with you that it's best to just move on.Mothra said:
Trump is no longer president. Time to move on.
This is a much, much, much more serious allegation.
I do not accept this article as proof of anything. And the Russians buried people so deep for so long that I have to consider the possibility that the Russian defector who supplied a lot of information for this story may not have been a defector after all but is still working for Moscow.
But the questions raised in this story need to be examined further. There at least needs to be much more digging by the media.
The story makes no claim that Trump was getting money from Russia. But being an asset for a foreign government doesn't necessarily involve getting paid or even taking orders. Sometimes it just means getting someone to be useful to your agenda -- maybe without even realizing that they're manipulating you. Is that a plausible scenario in Trump's case? Yes.
Again, plausibility isn't proof.
But it's worth recalling here that people in Trump's own adopted party were asking these questions as recently as 5 years ago, when Kevin McCarthy told fellow Republicans that he thought Trump was on Putin's payroll.
That seemed to raise enough questions to call for further digging. Didn't see any of our resident biden supporters call for it.
And all the evidence was presented in court.
The media didn't dig into it. Politicians ignored it. and Liberals dismissed it.
Like I said, nothing was investigated and the media did no digging.
Let me sum it up for you:
Trump: "The election was stolen"
Various Politicians: "Nuh, uh... was not"
Media: "Okay"
There was no investigation. The media did no digging. The politicians didn't want to talk about and the court didn't want to hear it. Period.
But enough about Trump since he's not in the White House anymore. When are you going to start posting BS articles about Biden? You know, since you're a Republican and everything
When Trump gets out of the Republican Party and politics, I'll shut up about him. People of conscience have to speak out against Trump and his radicals. Biden is a whole different matter and subject. So far he has not proven the existential threat to the country that Trump was. It's too early to really grade him and he deserves an opportunity to get his feet on the ground. However, so far in the very early going, I give him an A on Covid response, an incomplete on foreign policy, a B on truthfulness, and a D on domestic policy. In the end, Trump failed at almost everything, F- in truthfulness (not in his wheelhouse), foreign policy, and Covid response, and being generous, a D for domestic policy.
You should really seek help TS. You're infatuation with Trump is unhealthy.
You give an "A" to biden for covid response..... that's friggin' hilarious. Even for a liberal, you reached far up your ass for that "A".
Like I said, no real investigations, no real digging, no concern.
Here's a reality check for ya'... Trump isn't in the current president, but please keep posting BS about him, you seem to be stuck on his dick.
Trump (not a conservative) is still trying to influence and manipulate the Republican Party for his own personal benefit, and he is the subject of an impeachment trial. When he steps aside and quits seeking to have political influence, and follow the precedent of previous presidents, I'll shut up.
