J.B.Katz said:

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Mothra said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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HuMcK said:

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Deregulation has consequences. Those other grids are subject to federal regs in ways that ours is not (by design). For Abbott to A) be spending any time on Hannity at all during this crisis, and B) to immediately deflect blame to a non-existent "Green New Deal" takes some massive chutzpah and a complete lack of integrity.

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We're having a big discussion here about forcing social media platfforms to host Parler which is regulating them.

Texas runs its own energy grid in most of the state to avoid federal regulation and now you're seeing the results of that in that the grid can't withstand severe winter weather.

Which is most important to regulate--the abilty to guys like Abott to lie on Parler about why the Texas grid collapsed or the supply of power to millions of Texans?

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As a Republican, you are in favor of bigger govt. and more regulation? Hmmm.

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Some things need regulation. The national power grid is one of them. Airways are another. Borders are another.

We also need national freeways that are maintained, railroad tracks that are maintained, and other government sponsored or supervised systems and resources that enable us to function as a nationand that support national security by making sure we can get resources where they're needed fast and deploy military troops fast.

How's Texas functioning right now?

What we don't need is for federal or state govts to step in and tell an internet platform it has to host Parler. My observation of Trump Republicans like you is that you're fine with heavyhanded regulation when it suits your purposes while saying you're against it and you ***** and moan about regulation designed to support infrastructure and public safety until an epic fail like the TX power grid happens and then you lie and blame it on the Green New Deal or anything but your management like Abbott did last night on Hannity.

No business that ran with planning like that and denying basic facts would still be in business.

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I am not sure what a "Trump Republican" is. In your book, is that anyone who voted for Trump? Is that some homogenous group that believes the same things? If so, please tell me what it is I believe.

And where did you get the idea that I am for regulating social media? To the contrary, I am for taking away their special privileges (i.e. deregulation) and making them liable to the same sort of private lawsuits that other publishers experience. But noted, you are against regulation that attempts to silence conservative voices, while apparently against deregulation on all other matters.

You sure you are a Repub?

Texas is not functioning the way it is because of deregulation.

Osodecentx said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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ERCOT needs to be blown up too. Stupid ****ers.

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Do you prefer FERC?

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C. None of the above.

Let the market work it out.

boognish_bear said:

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ERCOT's sovereign immunity hasn't been decided yet; oral arguments SupCtTX were last September and an opinion hadn't come out as of yesterday.

Mothra said:

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HuMcK said:

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Other grids subject to federal regs for winterization aren't having the same level of issues we are, despite enduring the same weather. Imagine that.

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Are you joking? I lived in both California and Connecticut for extended periods, and BOTH states had the exact same issues we are now experiencing. I recall living in Los Angeles during the Gray Davis admin when we had rolling brown outs. I would come home to my apartment, and find a warm refrigerator and all my appliances blinking 12:00. Luckily I lived off ramen noodles during those days instead of refrigerated food, so I was not as effected as my neighbors. I recall one evening going to sleep in my car to cool down because the AC wasn't working.

The year-and-a-half I lived in Connecticut, we had black outs in both the summer and the winter. We were still able to heat our home because we had kerosene heaters, but I can't tell you how many times we had the electricity shut off in ice storms and hot summer days.

The idea that the current issues we are experiencing are unique or due to de-regulation is absurd, like many of your opinions.

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Example: No power for nearly 230,000 in Portland metro, Willamette Valley following winter storm

Quote:

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As of 11 a.m. Tuesday, Portland General Electric was reporting more than 209,000 customers without power, and Pacific Power reported more than 20,000 customers.

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BellCountyBear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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ERCOT needs to be blown up too. Stupid ****ers.

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Do you prefer FERC?

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C. None of the above.

Let the market work it out.

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Texas electric market is deregulated

Quote:

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From a friend in Dallas: Texas is its own island in many respects... including the power grid. Most of the country is part of the US power grid, either East or West grid. Texas decided to be responsible for their own system to avoid federal oversight so they are not allowed to import or export electricity into or out of the state (unless national emergency). On top of that, depending on the day, the state relies on approximately 20-35 percent of their generating capacity from solar and wind turbines in west texas.
So Sunday the temps started dropping and sunday night the organization that manages the Texas power grid (ERCOT) realized that all these hundreds of thousands of brand new poorly built and poorly insulated houses that have been going up all over the state, were now running their full electric houses and furnaces at full tilt (By the way, the state and power companies have been providing rebates for making your whole house electric). As power demand went up, the ice started freezing up the wind turbines and covering the solar panels in West Texas thereby reducing the overall capacity by 20-35percent. (By the way, if you didn't know they use big helicopters burning Jet A to spray deice fluid on the iced up wind turbines).
In the meantime, the gas fired generating plants began increasing their consumption of natural gas to fulfill the demand of extra power needed due the cold event and loss of solar and wind turbines . The increase in usage by the major players to keep the businesses warm or generate power, (generating stations, businesses, large power consumers and homes), caused the overall pressure to drop within the natural gas supply system. The lack of compressed gas (naturally heated due to compression) caused major valves to freeze up which required the gas companies to shut down their supplies due to their inability to control it.
So the natural gas electric generating plants shut down.
So this reduced the generating capacity even further. Some of the remaining coal fired plants still on the system then became overloaded in the system and shut down. Reducing the generating capacity even further.
By midnight Sunday, the cost of electrical generating went from a normal $100-$200 dollars per megawatt hour to over $9000 per hour and ERCOT was calling for 40% reduction of service by providers (basically, "start rolling blackouts of your consumers"). Unfortunately, many of the provider systems are not set up for rolling blackouts and in many cases when they shut down a system, the shut down damaged controls and rolling blackouts turned into... blackouts or just power outages as they were unable to reconnect the power.
As of this moment, 2.8 million customers in North Texas are without power and most of Houston (south Texas) was without power for over 24 hours in sub-freezing temps.
And tonight we are looking at either ice storms or 3-8 inches of snow depending on what model you believe.
AND ADD TO ALL THAT...
Several of the oil refineries in Houston have shut down due to the weather. Also, the trucks that would normally be transporting fuel from the fueling stations to the retail gas stations haven't been operating due to the weather.
SOoooo... as a result, the retail gas stations are running out of gas, and panic buying has started.
AND ADD TO ALL THAT...
The big trucks transporting supplies to the grocery stores have stopped running because the roads are crap and... there's no diesel at the fuel stations. So the stores are running out of groceries and people see the shelves getting bare and are panic buying groceries again.

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TLDR: There is a good reason solar, wind and such are properly referred to as alternative energy.

It means they were never supposed to be the front line.

Oldbear83 said:

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TLDR: There is a good reason solar, wind and such are properly referred to as supplemental energy source for the time being.

It means they were never supposed to be the front line.

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Fixed it for you.

BBear77 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TLDR: There is a good reason solar, wind and such are properly referred to as supplemental energy source for the time being.

It means they were never supposed to be the front line.

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Fixed it for you.

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Yup.

Kind of amusing to see Abbott faking outrage today. Earlier this month he was happy to receive an award for "commitment to wind development"

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/texas-gov-greg-abbott-receives-tri-global-energys-wind-leadership-award-301225238.html#:~:text=AUSTIN%2C%20Texas%20and%20DALLAS%2C%20Feb,Global%20Energy%20Wind%20Leadership%20Award.


Hypocrite,

Oldbear83 said:

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BBear77 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TLDR: There is a good reason solar, wind and such are properly referred to as supplemental energy source for the time being.

It means they were never supposed to be the front line.

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Fixed it for you.

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Yup.

Kind of amusing to see Abbott faking outrage today. Earlier this month he was happy to receive an award for "commitment to wind development"

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/texas-gov-greg-abbott-receives-tri-global-energys-wind-leadership-award-301225238.html#:~:text=AUSTIN%2C%20Texas%20and%20DALLAS%2C%20Feb,Global%20Energy%20Wind%20Leadership%20Award.


Hypocrite,

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What all politicians do.

fence straddlers..all of them. No allegiance to anyone but who has the money

Ted Cruz getting blasted (again) on Twitter right now is about the only solace I can find in these last six days.

. "It is just a lie that wind turbines, green energy, are the root causes of the problems in Texas right now," Hayes said. "It is a lie like Donald Trump won the election, a lie like there was widespread voter fraud, a lie pumped into millions of people's brains as they watch TV. And let's be clear, this is probably as consequential a lie as any about the election because energy and how we produce it is the single biggest issue this country will face in the medium term."

"Republicans and right-wing media, they want to take every policy issue and turn it into some painful culture war idiocy," he added.CNN
Another lie comes home to roost.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/feb/16/natural-gas-not-wind-turbines-main-driver-texas-po/?fbclid=IwAR2pkJ0R7S5wVoR4yt_JVOU7yqDv9gMos0K_JloyXJpQ3tApWj-jmLPLVvo

Oldbear83 said:

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BBear77 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TLDR: There is a good reason solar, wind and such are properly referred to as supplemental energy source for the time being.

It means they were never supposed to be the front line.

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Fixed it for you.

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Yup.

Kind of amusing to see Abbott faking outrage today. Earlier this month he was happy to receive an award for "commitment to wind development"

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/texas-gov-greg-abbott-receives-tri-global-energys-wind-leadership-award-301225238.html#:~:text=AUSTIN%2C%20Texas%20and%20DALLAS%2C%20Feb,Global%20Energy%20Wind%20Leadership%20Award.


Hypocrite,

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Politicians going to politician.

Osodecentx said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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ERCOT needs to be blown up too. Stupid ****ers.

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Do you prefer FERC?

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C. None of the above.

Let the market work it out.

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Texas electric market is deregulated

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Not really but ok

Robert Wilson said:

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This really isn't a debate about green vs traditional energy, unless you're a hammer looking for a nail. We had failures all over the place. This is about how much money you want to spend to weather proof everything for a rare occurrence. We get these kinds of deep freezes about once every 30-40-50 years. So do you want to save money and suffer about that often, or do you want to spend a whole lot of money to hope you're bulletproof even in those circumstances? That applies to wind, solar, nat gas, coal, etc. That also applies whether you're regulated or unregulated.

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They may come more frequently in the future like hurricanes.

BaylorBJM said:

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Ted Cruz getting blasted (again) on Twitter right now is about the only solace I can find in these last six days.

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Does BJM stand for blow job man?

BaylorGuy314 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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BBear77 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TLDR: There is a good reason solar, wind and such are properly referred to as supplemental energy source for the time being.

It means they were never supposed to be the front line.

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Fixed it for you.

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Yup.

Kind of amusing to see Abbott faking outrage today. Earlier this month he was happy to receive an award for "commitment to wind development"

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/texas-gov-greg-abbott-receives-tri-global-energys-wind-leadership-award-301225238.html#:~:text=AUSTIN%2C%20Texas%20and%20DALLAS%2C%20Feb,Global%20Energy%20Wind%20Leadership%20Award.


Hypocrite,

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Politicians going to politician.

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I know Abbott won't get my vote This issue is a deal-breaker for me.

J.B.Katz said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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This really isn't a debate about green vs traditional energy, unless you're a hammer looking for a nail. We had failures all over the place. This is about how much money you want to spend to weather proof everything for a rare occurrence. We get these kinds of deep freezes about once every 30-40-50 years. So do you want to save money and suffer about that often, or do you want to spend a whole lot of money to hope you're bulletproof even in those circumstances? That applies to wind, solar, nat gas, coal, etc. That also applies whether you're regulated or unregulated.

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They may come more frequently in the future like hurricanes.

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Well, ****, that's true of everything. Very helpful policy statement. Something may happen. How much time and money do we want to spend on that one?

This is not an easy discussion. It's sure easy to ***** about when you're in the thick of it, though.

I'll make it personal. Most people could fix this problem for themselves with $5-10k for a good generator and making sure their house can transition over no problem. Who is going to do that? I probably will. Most people probably won't.

Kind of surprised Abbott didn't turn it down

How many wind turbines froze and what percent of the load do the frozen turbines represent?
What percent of our load is solar?

A tree falling on a power line has nothing to do with wind turbines or solar?

Robert Wilson said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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This really isn't a debate about green vs traditional energy, unless you're a hammer looking for a nail. We had failures all over the place. This is about how much money you want to spend to weather proof everything for a rare occurrence. We get these kinds of deep freezes about once every 30-40-50 years. So do you want to save money and suffer about that often, or do you want to spend a whole lot of money to hope you're bulletproof even in those circumstances? That applies to wind, solar, nat gas, coal, etc. That also applies whether you're regulated or unregulated.

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They may come more frequently in the future like hurricanes.

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Well, ****, that's true of everything. Very helpful policy statement. Something may happen. How much time and money do we want to spend on that one?

This is not an easy discussion. It's sure easy to ***** about when you're in the thick of it, though.

I'll make it personal. Most people could fix this problem for themselves with $5-10k for a good generator and making sure their house can transition over no problem. Who is going to do that? I probably will. Most people probably won't.

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Did it two years ago. Generac 42Kw nat gas power replacement setup. It has been fantastic. Highly recommend.

boognish_bear said:

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Spoken like someone who never lost his electricity.

fadskier said:

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Osodecentx said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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BellCountyBear said:

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ERCOT needs to be blown up too. Stupid ****ers.

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Do you prefer FERC?

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C. None of the above.

Let the market work it out.

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Texas electric market is deregulated

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Not really but ok

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Yes, really

OsoCoreyell said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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This really isn't a debate about green vs traditional energy, unless you're a hammer looking for a nail. We had failures all over the place. This is about how much money you want to spend to weather proof everything for a rare occurrence. We get these kinds of deep freezes about once every 30-40-50 years. So do you want to save money and suffer about that often, or do you want to spend a whole lot of money to hope you're bulletproof even in those circumstances? That applies to wind, solar, nat gas, coal, etc. That also applies whether you're regulated or unregulated.

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They may come more frequently in the future like hurricanes.

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Well, ****, that's true of everything. Very helpful policy statement. Something may happen. How much time and money do we want to spend on that one?

This is not an easy discussion. It's sure easy to ***** about when you're in the thick of it, though.

I'll make it personal. Most people could fix this problem for themselves with $5-10k for a good generator and making sure their house can transition over no problem. Who is going to do that? I probably will. Most people probably won't.

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Did it two years ago. Generac 42Kw nat gas power replacement setup. It has been fantastic. Highly recommend.

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Gracias. I'm thinking home and ranch.

bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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HuMcK said:

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Deregulation has consequences. Those other grids are subject to federal regs in ways that ours is not (by design). For Abbott to A) be spending any time on Hannity at all during this crisis, and B) to immediately deflect blame to a non-existent "Green New Deal" takes some massive chutzpah and a complete lack of integrity.

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We're having a big discussion here about forcing social media platfforms to host Parler which is regulating them.

Texas runs its own energy grid in most of the state to avoid federal regulation and now you're seeing the results of that in that the grid can't withstand severe winter weather.

Which is most important to regulate--the abilty to guys like Abott to lie on Parler about why the Texas grid collapsed or the supply of power to millions of Texans?

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As a Republican, you are in favor of bigger govt. and more regulation? Hmmm.

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A functioning electrical grid and safe/running water aren't big or small government issues. They are just government issues. If you don't have those things in the 21st century, you don't have government.

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We have a functioning electric grid. Its just not prepared for a once in a generation storm.

All other states with regulated electrical grids experience the same sorts of things from time to time - some much more frequent than others. The difference is, electricity in those states is typically a hell of a lot more expensive than Texas. You should have seen my electric bills for a one bedroom apartment when I lived in LA a couple of decades ago.

bear2be2 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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Spoken like someone who never lost his electricity.

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You think these things are unique to Texas? They're not. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with deregulation.

Give me cheaper electricity any day of the week.

Osodecentx said:

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How many wind turbines froze and what percent of the load do the frozen turbines represent?
What percent of our load is solar?

A tree falling on a power line has nothing to do with wind turbines or solar?

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wind and solar equal 6%-8%