🚨 BREAKING 🚨
— Oversight Committee (@GOPoversight) October 11, 2023
We have discovered new information about the number of White House employees involved in President Biden’s mishandling of classified documents.
President Biden’s attorney stated that the discovery of classified documents at Penn Biden Center occurred on November… pic.twitter.com/rLN1VJyRKC
Biden Approval Ratings
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Last: 2 mo ago by Wangchung
Biden starts shouting out of nowhere while describing how he took Hunter and Beau to Dachau when they were 14. pic.twitter.com/RQ3SVhxy3G
— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) October 11, 2023
BIDEN: "I'll never forget. Well, I won't go into that. Anyway..." pic.twitter.com/UTCrjwEusb
— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) October 11, 2023
GrowlTowel said:I call bull***** You have not checked the actual records. You may be reviewing the opinions of others that checked the actual records but you, yourself, have not. Further up you claimed to have reviewed the court records as well. Unless you are downloading off of PACER or have sent a clerk to the various court houses, stop making such claims.FLBear5630 said:Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...
Look it up. It is easy to see how many were arrested 2020 riots.
NPR has a database of the Jan 6th and a write up on each.
You seem to think I have a pre conceived position. I don't. I literally am looking stuff up. I have said the Stormy Daniels and NY loan valuations were BS.
I do believe Jan 6 people got what they deserved and there is enough for trials on docs and Jan 6 for Trump. If evidence is BS, I will be with you saying acquit. If he did do it, find him guilty.
Not a real radical position.
Thanks for proving my point. Please stop claiming authority for materials that you have not reviewed.FLBear5630 said:GrowlTowel said:I call bull***** You have not checked the actual records. You may be reviewing the opinions of others that checked the actual records but you, yourself, have not. Further up you claimed to have reviewed the court records as well. Unless you are downloading off of PACER or have sent a clerk to the various court houses, stop making such claims.FLBear5630 said:Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...
Look it up. It is easy to see how many were arrested 2020 riots.
NPR has a database of the Jan 6th and a write up on each.
You seem to think I have a pre conceived position. I don't. I literally am looking stuff up. I have said the Stormy Daniels and NY loan valuations were BS.
I do believe Jan 6 people got what they deserved and there is enough for trials on docs and Jan 6 for Trump. If evidence is BS, I will be with you saying acquit. If he did do it, find him guilty.
Not a real radical position.
GrowlTowel said:Thanks for proving my point. Please stop claiming authority for materials that you have not reviewed.FLBear5630 said:GrowlTowel said:I call bull***** You have not checked the actual records. You may be reviewing the opinions of others that checked the actual records but you, yourself, have not. Further up you claimed to have reviewed the court records as well. Unless you are downloading off of PACER or have sent a clerk to the various court houses, stop making such claims.FLBear5630 said:Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...
Look it up. It is easy to see how many were arrested 2020 riots.
NPR has a database of the Jan 6th and a write up on each.
You seem to think I have a pre conceived position. I don't. I literally am looking stuff up. I have said the Stormy Daniels and NY loan valuations were BS.
I do believe Jan 6 people got what they deserved and there is enough for trials on docs and Jan 6 for Trump. If evidence is BS, I will be with you saying acquit. If he did do it, find him guilty.
Not a real radical position.
*** are you talking about? Claiming authority? Geez, so official. It's newspaper articles. An NPR website. Read and make up your own mind.
So... looks like WWIII is backing its way into 2023. Who had their money on Hamas for being the catalyst? Pretty sure everyone was predicting that@POTUS was just the right guy for pulling us into it.
— Adam Barr (@RevAdamTBarr) October 11, 2023
🚨 WOW!! Buried 2007 video of Senator Joe Biden discussing troop removal from
— TONY™️ (@TONYxTWO) October 10, 2023
Afghanistan. It would be a shame if everyone saw this..
"And you leave those billions of dollars of weapons behind I promise they're going to be used against your grandchild and mine some day." (h/t… pic.twitter.com/bavntcRuCB
FLBear5630 said:GrowlTowel said:Thanks for proving my point. Please stop claiming authority for materials that you have not reviewed.FLBear5630 said:GrowlTowel said:I call bull***** You have not checked the actual records. You may be reviewing the opinions of others that checked the actual records but you, yourself, have not. Further up you claimed to have reviewed the court records as well. Unless you are downloading off of PACER or have sent a clerk to the various court houses, stop making such claims.FLBear5630 said:Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...
Look it up. It is easy to see how many were arrested 2020 riots.
NPR has a database of the Jan 6th and a write up on each.
You seem to think I have a pre conceived position. I don't. I literally am looking stuff up. I have said the Stormy Daniels and NY loan valuations were BS.
I do believe Jan 6 people got what they deserved and there is enough for trials on docs and Jan 6 for Trump. If evidence is BS, I will be with you saying acquit. If he did do it, find him guilty.
Not a real radical position.
*** are you talking about? Claiming authority? Geez, so official. It's newspaper articles. An NPR website. Read and make up your own mind.
Call an't answer simple questions. Take credit for other people's opinions and work.
Have you ever had an original thought?
GrowlTowel said:FLBear5630 said:GrowlTowel said:Thanks for proving my point. Please stop claiming authority for materials that you have not reviewed.FLBear5630 said:GrowlTowel said:I call bull***** You have not checked the actual records. You may be reviewing the opinions of others that checked the actual records but you, yourself, have not. Further up you claimed to have reviewed the court records as well. Unless you are downloading off of PACER or have sent a clerk to the various court houses, stop making such claims.FLBear5630 said:Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...
Look it up. It is easy to see how many were arrested 2020 riots.
NPR has a database of the Jan 6th and a write up on each.
You seem to think I have a pre conceived position. I don't. I literally am looking stuff up. I have said the Stormy Daniels and NY loan valuations were BS.
I do believe Jan 6 people got what they deserved and there is enough for trials on docs and Jan 6 for Trump. If evidence is BS, I will be with you saying acquit. If he did do it, find him guilty.
Not a real radical position.
*** are you talking about? Claiming authority? Geez, so official. It's newspaper articles. An NPR website. Read and make up your own mind.
Call an't answer simple questions. Take credit for other people's opinions and work.
Have you ever had an original thought?
I have no idea what you are talking about. Credit? What are you talking about. Read it yourself.
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965472049/the-capitol-siege-the-arrested-and-their-stories
https://theprosecutionproject.org/2020/12/22/tracking-federal-cases-related-to-summer-protests-riots-uprisings/
GrowlTowel to FLDemocrat: "Have you ever had an original thought?"
I really am starting to believe Hunter has made a guest appearance. Same entitled attitude, same allergy to common sense, same dishonesty.
FLBear should have invested in better Anti-Hacker protection.
I really am starting to believe Hunter has made a guest appearance. Same entitled attitude, same allergy to common sense, same dishonesty.
FLBear should have invested in better Anti-Hacker protection.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
you are doing what the left does = cherry picking the worst parts of the demonstration as representative of the whole.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
one side gets maximum deference to first amendment rights of speech and assembly. Can have hand-to-hand combat in a federal building with federal officers, shoot incendiary devices at federal officers.....night after night for months = slap on hands, local rather than federal charges, a few hours in jail, back on the streets....Quote:
Now, ask yourself a couple of questions . . . the left was prepared to riot had Trump won the election, there were foot soldiers on the ground, ready to go . . . had Jan 6th been perpetrated by leftists, do you think 1,162 people would have been charged? Do you think there would have been 150 trials? Would there have been a congressional inquiry? Or do you think the call for unity (as opposed to revenge) would have been the national talking point? My God, the national narrative was that it was worse than Pearl Harbor.Quote:Quote:Quote:You do realize you are talking about multiple jurisdictions??Quote:ANTIFA, BLM and street thugs robbing, burning down buildings and assaulting people aren't being charged because political targeting is entrenched in our country.Quote:You always bring in other issues.Quote:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.Quote:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.Quote:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.Quote:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.Quote:
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
One group can get away with it and the other can't. Those that get away with it commit far worse crimes. This is a MASSIVE and widespread problem.
If that doesn't change, this country will break. You need to be FAR more concerned with this issue than being gleeful about J6 grandmas dying in prison. Concerned enough to agree that we shouldn't hand down severe sentences to J6 protestors until that changes.
If only J6 protestors are prosecuted while others aren't, it will make political targeting worse. You embolden them when you don't put your foot down.
ANTIFA and the riots took place in Cities. Those State's laws take precedence.
Jan 6th took place in DC, Federal law takes precedence.
You are complaining of unfairness because the Federal Courts prosecuted and the Cities/States didn't. The two are not connected. Trump's AG didn't charge Federal charges to make it a Federal crime. Once again, like Hillary and Hunter why didn't Trump's Administration do something??????Meanwhile people present at J6, many who didn't even enter the capitol are being charged and spending serious time in prison.Quote:
WASHINGTON Charges have been dropped against the remaining defendants arrested in the wake of violent protests on Inauguration Day 2017.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia said in a statement Friday that they believe "evidence shows that a riot occurred on January 20, 2017, during which more than $100,000 in damage was caused," and that 21 people have pleaded guilty for their actions that day, including one felony.
"In light of the results in the cases brought to trial, however, the U.S. Attorney's Office has now moved to dismiss charges against the 39 remaining defendants in this matter," the statement said.
Dane Powell, of Tampa, Florida, pleaded guilty in April 2017 to a felony charge of assaulting a police officer. He was sentenced to four months. Twenty more protesters pleaded guilty to misdemeanor rioting, paid fines and were placed on probation.
LINK
You really should read up on what you believe. 7% have received jail time. Here is a link,
Explore NPR database of Jan. 6 Capitol riot cases and sentencing status updates : NPR
The website has the stories for everyone. They really have you worked up, you need to learn what is really happening. I am not a NPR fan, but this site goes into some depth about the people and what they did based on Court records. I
Here are the stats...
An overview of the cases so far
- Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
- Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
- Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
- The number with mixed verdicts: 42
- The number convicted on all charges: 106
- The number acquitted on all charges: 2
- Number of people sentenced: 674
- The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
- The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
- The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
You know the answers; everyone does - which is what makes this political hackery.
There are two systems of justice. Everyone sees it.
People from the other side walks thru an open door into an area they are not authorized to be, walk around & chat with federal officers, and the full weight of federal prosecution for insurrection ensues.
The most outrageous thing about it is that anyone would contest it is true.
1162 people. and it was an insurrection.Quote:Quote:Quote:You always bring in other issues.Quote:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.Quote:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.Quote:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.Quote:
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th?. Far cry from all of them. Median sentence 120 days.
Here you go.
An overview of the cases so far
Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
The number with mixed verdicts: 42
The number convicted on all charges: 106
The number acquitted on all charges: 2
Number of people sentenced: 674
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
what would the battle plan look like for overthrowing the United States Government with a battalion of unarmed, untrained auxilliaries, most of whom were over age 60?
whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You, I know, are reasonable as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
Been saying it for a while now. WWIII has already started. Suspect historians will cite Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea and Donbas as the first salvo.Jacques Strap said:So... looks like WWIII is backing its way into 2023. Who had their money on Hamas for being the catalyst? Pretty sure everyone was predicting that@POTUS was just the right guy for pulling us into it.
— Adam Barr (@RevAdamTBarr) October 11, 2023
Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
4th and Inches said:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
If the Dems run Biden, Trump stands a good chance of winning. Especially since he is getting some court wins, that will help him more than MAGA realize. He needs suburbs and women to win General. Courts confirming his innocence is best medicine.
Will Kennedy hurt him? I think not, I think Kennedy pulls from both equally
Biden has done well so far in this Israeli war.
Done all that is reasonably possible in such a short amount of time.
Meanwhile the Republicans in the house continue to look like a bunch of clueless, spoiled , frat boys .
Done all that is reasonably possible in such a short amount of time.
Meanwhile the Republicans in the house continue to look like a bunch of clueless, spoiled , frat boys .
If Biden is breathing, he'll be on the ticket.FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
national polling shows trump has a chance.. no national polling exists for the gov of MichFLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
The state polling with national canidates actually running for POTUS show Trump has a chance in several of the needed swings.
The poll is junk
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
4th and Inches said:national polling shows trump has a chance.. no national polling exists for the gov of MichFLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
The state polling with national canidates actually running for POTUS show Trump has a chance in several of the needed swings.
The poll is junk
Of course it is. There is not way to read the data as good for Donald. Everything is coming up Donald on this site.
OK, Hunter.FLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:national polling shows trump has a chance.. no national polling exists for the gov of MichFLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
The state polling with national canidates actually running for POTUS show Trump has a chance in several of the needed swings.
The poll is junk
Of course it is. There is not way to read the data as good for Donald. Everything is coming up Donald on this site.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
not trying to read it as good for Trump.. its called objectivityFLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:national polling shows trump has a chance.. no national polling exists for the gov of MichFLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
The state polling with national canidates actually running for POTUS show Trump has a chance in several of the needed swings.
The poll is junk
Of course it is. There is not way to read the data as good for Donald. Everything is coming up Donald on this site.
Just like when RDS was considered the hot ticket and now is getting beat down nationally in the polls.
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
Oldbear83 said:OK, Hunter.FLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:national polling shows trump has a chance.. no national polling exists for the gov of MichFLBear5630 said:4th and Inches said:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyFLBear5630 said:whiterock said:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:you are not holding the other side to the same standard.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
The state polling with national canidates actually running for POTUS show Trump has a chance in several of the needed swings.
The poll is junk
Of course it is. There is not way to read the data as good for Donald. Everything is coming up Donald on this site.
There is a great way to settle this, there are elections coming. We will see who is right. And unlike you, if I am wrong I will say it and say you were right on Trump. I suspect if Trump loses it will be some point excuse and call me another name.
In Key West, drinking tequila, eating new fish types and listening to surprisingly good live music. 35th wedding anniversary. Key West may be liberal, but it is a hell of a party.
FLBear5630: 'There is a great way to settle this, there are elections coming. We will see who is right."
The problem Hunter is that you don't seem to notice what I am actually saying.
Regardless of who wins next November, that won't make your bigotry right or wrong.
And you keep seeming to confuse me for a Trump supporter. I am not. I just make fun of a-hole haters.
The problem Hunter is that you don't seem to notice what I am actually saying.
Regardless of who wins next November, that won't make your bigotry right or wrong.
And you keep seeming to confuse me for a Trump supporter. I am not. I just make fun of a-hole haters.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I just give you a hard time calling you MAGA to get a rise out of you.
President has the least impact on your day to day life of any elected office. County Commissioner or City Council will **** with your life more. You think you calling me Hunter bothers me? Come on. I actually work in Govt and build ***** I know I impacted thousands of people's life's positively. Some Baylor ultra conservative isn't going to bothere.
President has the least impact on your day to day life of any elected office. County Commissioner or City Council will **** with your life more. You think you calling me Hunter bothers me? Come on. I actually work in Govt and build ***** I know I impacted thousands of people's life's positively. Some Baylor ultra conservative isn't going to bothere.
Congrats on your anniversary, first. A good marriage is vital to my idea of character, sure wish we had candidates running whose behavior towards women was a strong plus.
But re: MAGA, don't forget Trump stole MAGA from Reagan. To my mind, putting America first is a vital priority and something the Left hates.
As for barbs, don't forget I'm an old umpire. Trading shots on a forum is a call back to exchanging pleasantries with rules-challenged coaches.
Anyone who takes an internet forum very seriously is in need of a vacation and several stiff drinks.
But re: MAGA, don't forget Trump stole MAGA from Reagan. To my mind, putting America first is a vital priority and something the Left hates.
As for barbs, don't forget I'm an old umpire. Trading shots on a forum is a call back to exchanging pleasantries with rules-challenged coaches.
Anyone who takes an internet forum very seriously is in need of a vacation and several stiff drinks.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
Congrats on your anniversary, first. A good marriage is vital to my idea of character, sure wish we had candidates running whose behavior towards women was a strong plus.
But re: MAGA, don't forget Trump stole MAGA from Reagan. To my mind, putting America first is a vital priority and something the Left hates.
As for barbs, don't forget I'm an old umpire. Trading shots on a forum is a call back to exchanging pleasantries with rules-challenged coaches.
Anyone who takes an internet forum very seriously is in need of a vacation and several stiff drinks.
No issues here. I can actually disagree with people on some issues and still like and respect them.
Trump, Gaetz, Greene, Briebart have perverted Reagans Make America Great. Reagan saw a shining city on the hill a model FG or the world. Not a vindictive revenge, blame others for our problems place like Trump and his cronies. Reagans vibe was positive, MAGA is not. I hold that against Trump, he perverted Reagan.
Plus when Reagan was a Conservative Trump was a Dem. He had a chance to support the real MAGA under Reagan and chose to play for Dems. Have a hard time getting past that fact.
In the end, I vote policy. But right now it is an open question...
A year ago, the race was within the margin of error in all the swing states, and Trump was behind in most of them.4th and Inches said:
national polling shows trump has a chance.. no national polling exists for the gov of MichQuote:Quote:it is a dumb poll.. she has no shot to win nationallyQuote:Quote:Polls are just a snapshot in time. They don't dictate where we are going tomorrow. Just give us a reference point for where we are today. You cannot just ignore them. You have to use them to check perspective, to ensure you're asking the right questions. Some polls show a super-majority think the feds instigated the riots. What should the polling numbers on such a question look like? I'd suggest that there's always 3-4 points worth totally irrational crackpots, and another 8-10% or so worth of wild-eyed ideologues. Add in the hard-core partisans and you're up into the 20-30 range. So how do the numbers get to 60+ without some pretty level headed moderate/centrist type people nodding & saying "yeah....Houston, we have a problem...."?Quote:Quote:
you are not holding the other side to the same standard.
Sorry don't agree with you on Jan 6th. Believe rioters are getting what they deserve. Pretty surprised people expected a slap on the wrist.
As for other rioters, they too should be arrested and prosecuted fully. Really don't think that is a far left position. But unlike some on here, I think Gaetz is a disgrace and Briebart and Greene are whack jobs.
You really think not buying into the polls without a vote being cast is an extreme position, huh? You I know are reasonable, as we have aligned on other positions. I expect no less from the other "original thinkers".
You see the Michigan interactive poll on the 2024 thread, Whitmer beating Trump 46 to 40... That one don't count right. Trump should hope he is against Biden.
LOL. You would take it like that. It shows that Trump is not as strong state by state unless facing the idiot Biden. Trump may do well in a National Poll, but will it hold state by state.
The state polling with national canidates actually running for POTUS show Trump has a chance in several of the needed swings.
The poll is junk
Today, the race is within the margin of error in most of the swing states, and Trump is ahead in all of them.
The trend: moving toward Trump. That should not be a surprise to anyone, given the circumstances.
The delta: we have double digits of undecideds/other, and we have several third party candidates poised to run. That should give a net assist to Trump, but we'll have to wait for the field to settle firm.
Just said if Wisconsin had a recent poll it is likely Trump would be leading the RCP in that state, as well.
— Rich Baris "The People's Pundit" (@Peoples_Pundit) October 12, 2023
There it is. He's leading in all the Rust Belt State averages.
Again, never in 2015/2016 or 2019/2020.
Never. https://t.co/GAsyQ0UPhc
I served under Reagan. You are correct that the personas are different, and that Reagan's was more pleasing to the ear. But don't take that too far. He was vilified in the same way Trump was, with the same exact epithets (racist, sexist, this-or-that-aphobe) and, like Trump, was always accused of being the proverbial loose cannon that would start off WWIII and get us all immolated in a thermonuclear nightmare. And Reagan never quailed form ridiculing Democrats. He just did it with avuncular humor rather than biting snark.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:
Congrats on your anniversary, first. A good marriage is vital to my idea of character, sure wish we had candidates running whose behavior towards women was a strong plus.
But re: MAGA, don't forget Trump stole MAGA from Reagan. To my mind, putting America first is a vital priority and something the Left hates.
As for barbs, don't forget I'm an old umpire. Trading shots on a forum is a call back to exchanging pleasantries with rules-challenged coaches.
Anyone who takes an internet forum very seriously is in need of a vacation and several stiff drinks.
No issues here. I can actually disagree with people on some issues and still like and respect them.
Trump, Gaetz, Greene, Briebart have perverted Reagans Make America Great. Reagan saw a shining city on the hill a model FG or the world. Not a vindictive revenge, blame others for our problems place like Trump and his cronies. Reagans vibe was positive, MAGA is not. I hold that against Trump, he perverted Reagan.
Plus when Reagan was a Conservative Trump was a Dem. He had a chance to support the real MAGA under Reagan and chose to play for Dems. Have a hard time getting past that fact.
In the end, I vote policy. But right now it is an open question...
Same for the Congressional Caucus. The press had its whipping boys, particularly Jesse Helms, Ron Paul, etc... Years down the road, Newt Gingrich was an equal threat to democracy, sitting on the back-bench throwing darts at leadership, then finally leading a revolution which caused night-terrors all across the swamp (before leading us to 5 balanced budgets....).
We'd all like to have another Reagan.
We don't.
We have to win with what we have.
And we can.
I served under Reagan and Bush (86-91) Gaetz, Greene and Broebert were not the GOP then. Reagan was snarky, he held the line, but he was never mean, he wasn't vindictive and he wasn't rude. I honestly do not know if the MAGA 8 have any ideals that line up with Reagan. Reagan was able to have a working relationship with O'Neil and move things forward. But, Ronnie was all for the US leading the way in NATO. He would be all in supporting Ukraine and Israel, he was not an isolationist at all, He would make a distaeful deals rather than shut down the Govt, he approved amnesty. He would never do what Gaetz did. Hell, he fired the Air Traffic Controllers for shutting down air travel.whiterock said:I served under Reagan. You are correct that the personas are different, and that Reagan's was more pleasing to the ear. But don't take that too far. He was vilified in the same way Trump was, with the same exact epithets (racist, sexist, this-or-that-aphobe) and, like Trump, was always accused of being the proverbial loose cannon that would start off WWIII and get us all immolated in a thermonuclear nightmare. And Reagan never quailed form ridiculing Democrats. He just did it with avuncular humor rather than biting snark.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:
Congrats on your anniversary, first. A good marriage is vital to my idea of character, sure wish we had candidates running whose behavior towards women was a strong plus.
But re: MAGA, don't forget Trump stole MAGA from Reagan. To my mind, putting America first is a vital priority and something the Left hates.
As for barbs, don't forget I'm an old umpire. Trading shots on a forum is a call back to exchanging pleasantries with rules-challenged coaches.
Anyone who takes an internet forum very seriously is in need of a vacation and several stiff drinks.
No issues here. I can actually disagree with people on some issues and still like and respect them.
Trump, Gaetz, Greene, Briebart have perverted Reagans Make America Great. Reagan saw a shining city on the hill a model FG or the world. Not a vindictive revenge, blame others for our problems place like Trump and his cronies. Reagans vibe was positive, MAGA is not. I hold that against Trump, he perverted Reagan.
Plus when Reagan was a Conservative Trump was a Dem. He had a chance to support the real MAGA under Reagan and chose to play for Dems. Have a hard time getting past that fact.
In the end, I vote policy. But right now it is an open question...
Same for the Congressional Caucus. The press had its whipping boys, particularly Jesse Helms, Ron Paul, etc... Years down the road, Newt Gingrich was an equal threat to democracy, sitting on the back-bench throwing darts at leadership, then finally leading a revolution which caused night-terrors all across the swamp (before leading us to 5 balanced budgets....).
We'd all like to have another Reagan.
We don't.
We have to win with what we have.
And we can.
As for Trump, I liked the 2016 Trump. I thought he would break the dead lock and cut deals. Hell, that is what he said he does. I actually looked forward to him finding a way to cut a deal that would solve some problems.
I do believe the MAGA die-hards bring out the worst in Donald. If what you show holds and votes follow, still remains to be seen, I will end up voting Trump against Biden, Newsome, Harris or even Widmar (sp)