You left out "from a stroke the next day".FLBear5630 said:They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?GrowlTowel said:Now, ask yourself a couple of questions . . . the left was prepared to riot had Trump won the election, there were foot soldiers on the ground, ready to go . . . had Jan 6th been perpetrated by leftists, do you think 1,162 people would have been charged? Do you think there would have been 150 trials? Would there have been a congressional inquiry? Or do you think the call for unity (as opposed to revenge) would have been the national talking point? My God, the national narrative was that it was worse than Pearl Harbor.FLBear5630 said:Doc Holliday said:FLBear5630 said:You do realize you are talking about multiple jurisdictions??Doc Holliday said:ANTIFA, BLM and street thugs robbing, burning down buildings and assaulting people aren't being charged because political targeting is entrenched in our country.FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
One group can get away with it and the other can't. Those that get away with it commit far worse crimes. This is a MASSIVE and widespread problem.
If that doesn't change, this country will break. You need to be FAR more concerned with this issue than being gleeful about J6 grandmas dying in prison. Concerned enough to agree that we shouldn't hand down severe sentences to J6 protestors until that changes.
If only J6 protestors are prosecuted while others aren't, it will make political targeting worse. You embolden them when you don't put your foot down.
ANTIFA and the riots took place in Cities. Those State's laws take precedence.
Jan 6th took place in DC, Federal law takes precedence.
You are complaining of unfairness because the Federal Courts prosecuted and the Cities/States didn't. The two are not connected. Trump's AG didn't charge Federal charges to make it a Federal crime. Once again, like Hillary and Hunter why didn't Trump's Administration do something??????Meanwhile people present at J6, many who didn't even enter the capitol are being charged and spending serious time in prison.Quote:
WASHINGTON Charges have been dropped against the remaining defendants arrested in the wake of violent protests on Inauguration Day 2017.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia said in a statement Friday that they believe "evidence shows that a riot occurred on January 20, 2017, during which more than $100,000 in damage was caused," and that 21 people have pleaded guilty for their actions that day, including one felony.
"In light of the results in the cases brought to trial, however, the U.S. Attorney's Office has now moved to dismiss charges against the 39 remaining defendants in this matter," the statement said.
Dane Powell, of Tampa, Florida, pleaded guilty in April 2017 to a felony charge of assaulting a police officer. He was sentenced to four months. Twenty more protesters pleaded guilty to misdemeanor rioting, paid fines and were placed on probation.
LINK
You really should read up on what you believe. 7% have received jail time. Here is a link,
Explore NPR database of Jan. 6 Capitol riot cases and sentencing status updates : NPR
The website has the stories for everyone. They really have you worked up, you need to learn what is really happening. I am not a NPR fan, but this site goes into some depth about the people and what they did based on Court records. I
Here are the stats...
An overview of the cases so far
- Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
- Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
- Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
- The number with mixed verdicts: 42
- The number convicted on all charges: 106
- The number acquitted on all charges: 2
- Number of people sentenced: 674
- The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
- The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
- The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
You know the answers; everyone does - which is what makes this political hackery.
There are two systems of justice. Everyone sees it.
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
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but Jan 6 caused it! (Not how strokes work but who cares)muddybrazos said:You left out "from a stroke the next day".FLBear5630 said:They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?GrowlTowel said:Now, ask yourself a couple of questions . . . the left was prepared to riot had Trump won the election, there were foot soldiers on the ground, ready to go . . . had Jan 6th been perpetrated by leftists, do you think 1,162 people would have been charged? Do you think there would have been 150 trials? Would there have been a congressional inquiry? Or do you think the call for unity (as opposed to revenge) would have been the national talking point? My God, the national narrative was that it was worse than Pearl Harbor.FLBear5630 said:Doc Holliday said:FLBear5630 said:You do realize you are talking about multiple jurisdictions??Doc Holliday said:ANTIFA, BLM and street thugs robbing, burning down buildings and assaulting people aren't being charged because political targeting is entrenched in our country.FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
One group can get away with it and the other can't. Those that get away with it commit far worse crimes. This is a MASSIVE and widespread problem.
If that doesn't change, this country will break. You need to be FAR more concerned with this issue than being gleeful about J6 grandmas dying in prison. Concerned enough to agree that we shouldn't hand down severe sentences to J6 protestors until that changes.
If only J6 protestors are prosecuted while others aren't, it will make political targeting worse. You embolden them when you don't put your foot down.
ANTIFA and the riots took place in Cities. Those State's laws take precedence.
Jan 6th took place in DC, Federal law takes precedence.
You are complaining of unfairness because the Federal Courts prosecuted and the Cities/States didn't. The two are not connected. Trump's AG didn't charge Federal charges to make it a Federal crime. Once again, like Hillary and Hunter why didn't Trump's Administration do something??????Meanwhile people present at J6, many who didn't even enter the capitol are being charged and spending serious time in prison.Quote:
WASHINGTON Charges have been dropped against the remaining defendants arrested in the wake of violent protests on Inauguration Day 2017.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia said in a statement Friday that they believe "evidence shows that a riot occurred on January 20, 2017, during which more than $100,000 in damage was caused," and that 21 people have pleaded guilty for their actions that day, including one felony.
"In light of the results in the cases brought to trial, however, the U.S. Attorney's Office has now moved to dismiss charges against the 39 remaining defendants in this matter," the statement said.
Dane Powell, of Tampa, Florida, pleaded guilty in April 2017 to a felony charge of assaulting a police officer. He was sentenced to four months. Twenty more protesters pleaded guilty to misdemeanor rioting, paid fines and were placed on probation.
LINK
You really should read up on what you believe. 7% have received jail time. Here is a link,
Explore NPR database of Jan. 6 Capitol riot cases and sentencing status updates : NPR
The website has the stories for everyone. They really have you worked up, you need to learn what is really happening. I am not a NPR fan, but this site goes into some depth about the people and what they did based on Court records. I
Here are the stats...
An overview of the cases so far
- Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
- Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
- Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
- The number with mixed verdicts: 42
- The number convicted on all charges: 106
- The number acquitted on all charges: 2
- Number of people sentenced: 674
- The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
- The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
- The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
You know the answers; everyone does - which is what makes this political hackery.
There are two systems of justice. Everyone sees it.
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
“The Internet is just a world passing around notes in a classroom.”
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart
Of course they would.FLBear5630 said:They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?GrowlTowel said:Now, ask yourself a couple of questions . . . the left was prepared to riot had Trump won the election, there were foot soldiers on the ground, ready to go . . . had Jan 6th been perpetrated by leftists, do you think 1,162 people would have been charged? Do you think there would have been 150 trials? Would there have been a congressional inquiry? Or do you think the call for unity (as opposed to revenge) would have been the national talking point? My God, the national narrative was that it was worse than Pearl Harbor.FLBear5630 said:Doc Holliday said:FLBear5630 said:You do realize you are talking about multiple jurisdictions??Doc Holliday said:ANTIFA, BLM and street thugs robbing, burning down buildings and assaulting people aren't being charged because political targeting is entrenched in our country.FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
One group can get away with it and the other can't. Those that get away with it commit far worse crimes. This is a MASSIVE and widespread problem.
If that doesn't change, this country will break. You need to be FAR more concerned with this issue than being gleeful about J6 grandmas dying in prison. Concerned enough to agree that we shouldn't hand down severe sentences to J6 protestors until that changes.
If only J6 protestors are prosecuted while others aren't, it will make political targeting worse. You embolden them when you don't put your foot down.
ANTIFA and the riots took place in Cities. Those State's laws take precedence.
Jan 6th took place in DC, Federal law takes precedence.
You are complaining of unfairness because the Federal Courts prosecuted and the Cities/States didn't. The two are not connected. Trump's AG didn't charge Federal charges to make it a Federal crime. Once again, like Hillary and Hunter why didn't Trump's Administration do something??????Meanwhile people present at J6, many who didn't even enter the capitol are being charged and spending serious time in prison.Quote:
WASHINGTON Charges have been dropped against the remaining defendants arrested in the wake of violent protests on Inauguration Day 2017.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia said in a statement Friday that they believe "evidence shows that a riot occurred on January 20, 2017, during which more than $100,000 in damage was caused," and that 21 people have pleaded guilty for their actions that day, including one felony.
"In light of the results in the cases brought to trial, however, the U.S. Attorney's Office has now moved to dismiss charges against the 39 remaining defendants in this matter," the statement said.
Dane Powell, of Tampa, Florida, pleaded guilty in April 2017 to a felony charge of assaulting a police officer. He was sentenced to four months. Twenty more protesters pleaded guilty to misdemeanor rioting, paid fines and were placed on probation.
LINK
You really should read up on what you believe. 7% have received jail time. Here is a link,
Explore NPR database of Jan. 6 Capitol riot cases and sentencing status updates : NPR
The website has the stories for everyone. They really have you worked up, you need to learn what is really happening. I am not a NPR fan, but this site goes into some depth about the people and what they did based on Court records. I
Here are the stats...
An overview of the cases so far
- Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
- Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
- Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
- The number with mixed verdicts: 42
- The number convicted on all charges: 106
- The number acquitted on all charges: 2
- Number of people sentenced: 674
- The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
- The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
- The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
You know the answers; everyone does - which is what makes this political hackery.
There are two systems of justice. Everyone sees it.
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
Leftoids burn down cities and murder people and our media and politicians excuse it and GOP ignores it.
Oldbear83 said:
There is a lot of spittle on your screen right now, judging by that little outburst.
At least it only when someone say something entirely ridiculous.
Unlike the drool that regularly comes from yours whenever some calls out MAGA.. That Donald tattoo start burning when someone calls out those idiots for what they are? They set the GOP back 50 years with that riot.
Now wipe your chin...
Biden on auto-pilot, struggling to read the teleprompter.
— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) October 10, 2023
"Because the building made up of affordable housing units had no fire safe! None. It was not fire safe. Period." pic.twitter.com/qCQCH1gDj5
What a bitter, sad little man you are.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:
There is a lot of spittle on your screen right now, judging by that little outburst.
At least it only when someone say something entirely ridiculous.
Unlike the drool that regularly comes from yours whenever some calls out MAGA.. That Donald tattoo start burning when someone calls out those idiots for what they are? They set the GOP back 50 years with that riot.
Now wipe your chin...
Is that you, Fetterman?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
"Now wipe your chin..."
Yes, I know Hunter says that to you after your little "art" discussions in private, but it's out of place here.
Yes, I know Hunter says that to you after your little "art" discussions in private, but it's out of place here.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
"Now wipe your chin..."
Yes, I know Hunter says that to you after your little "art" discussions in private, but it's out of place here.
We'll be good you may get jello and they will let you wear your MAGA hat. Getting old sucks....
Just curious. How many people were prosecuted for the ANTIFA attack on the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse in Portland with federal agents barricaded inside?FLBear5630 said:
They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
Malbec said:Just curious. How many people were prosecuted for the ANTIFA attack on the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse in Portland with federal agents barricaded inside?FLBear5630 said:
They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
Here is a link. Looks like 74 were charged. Looks like it went up to 90 and 31 dismissed. My point is each of these is independent from the others. Regardless of what happens in one case doesn't give another a pass.
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-portland-demonstrations
Thanks, but those incidents all occurred in July. The courthouse was attacked and fires set in March. I have been unable to find any prosecutions for the 4 months of rioting, looting and vandalism that was committed prior to July.FLBear5630 said:Malbec said:Just curious. How many people were prosecuted for the ANTIFA attack on the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse in Portland with federal agents barricaded inside?FLBear5630 said:
They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
Here is a link. Looks like 74 were charged. Looks like it went up to 90 and 31 dismissed. My point is each of these is independent from the others. Regardless of what happens in one case doesn't give another a pass.
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-portland-demonstrations
Malbec said:Thanks, but those incidents all occurred in July. The courthouse was attacked and fires set in March. I have been unable to find any prosecutions for the 4 months of rioting, looting and vandalism that was committed prior to July.FLBear5630 said:Malbec said:Just curious. How many people were prosecuted for the ANTIFA attack on the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse in Portland with federal agents barricaded inside?FLBear5630 said:
They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
Here is a link. Looks like 74 were charged. Looks like it went up to 90 and 31 dismissed. My point is each of these is independent from the others. Regardless of what happens in one case doesn't give another a pass.
https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/portland-protest-cases-dismissed-feds/283-002f01d2-3217-4b12-8725-3fda2cad119f
https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/74-people-facing-federal-charges-crimes-committed-during-portland-demonstrations
Thought it was summer riots. Looks like 18 arrested.. Now how many were prosecuted?
https://ktvz.com/news/crime-courts/2020/07/24/fires-set-inside-portland-federal-courthouse-fence-18-arrested-on-federal-charges/
Looks like the Feds did arrest and prosecute alot for 2020. It does not get coverage.
whiterock said:It is.Osodecentx said:It willFLBear5630 said:Osodecentx said:Jacques Strap said:The US is now officially paying more in interests on its debt than on defense (and, as everyone knows, they spend A LOT on defense).
— Arnaud Bertrand (@RnaudBertrand) October 8, 2023
Throughout history, this is often quite a telling sign that the end of an empire is approaching...https://t.co/9Km9qhJ6ay
Inevitably a result
Yup, something has to change.
look at inflation.
inflation services debt.
Our incompetent government is now spending more on interest to service the rapidly increasing debt than we do on defense. And no one can argue that this is country is secure with our border wide open and controlled by the cartels.
FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Mumbling to yourself like that and ranting about 'MAGA', you must be channeling Joe now.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:
"Now wipe your chin..."
Yes, I know Hunter says that to you after your little "art" discussions in private, but it's out of place here.
We'll be good you may get jello and they will let you wear your MAGA hat. Getting old sucks....
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:Mumbling to yourself like that and ranting about 'MAGA', you must be channeling Joe now.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:
"Now wipe your chin..."
Yes, I know Hunter says that to you after your little "art" discussions in private, but it's out of place here.
We'll be good you may get jello and they will let you wear your MAGA hat. Getting old sucks....
I can do this all night with you Old, but in the East and get up at 5 am...
FLBear5630 said:They stormed Congress during Voter Certification. A Capital Policeman died. The HOR had to leave the Chambers. Secret Service had to draw weapons. You thought they would ignore it?GrowlTowel said:Now, ask yourself a couple of questions . . . the left was prepared to riot had Trump won the election, there were foot soldiers on the ground, ready to go . . . had Jan 6th been perpetrated by leftists, do you think 1,162 people would have been charged? Do you think there would have been 150 trials? Would there have been a congressional inquiry? Or do you think the call for unity (as opposed to revenge) would have been the national talking point? My God, the national narrative was that it was worse than Pearl Harbor.FLBear5630 said:Doc Holliday said:FLBear5630 said:You do realize you are talking about multiple jurisdictions??Doc Holliday said:ANTIFA, BLM and street thugs robbing, burning down buildings and assaulting people aren't being charged because political targeting is entrenched in our country.FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
One group can get away with it and the other can't. Those that get away with it commit far worse crimes. This is a MASSIVE and widespread problem.
If that doesn't change, this country will break. You need to be FAR more concerned with this issue than being gleeful about J6 grandmas dying in prison. Concerned enough to agree that we shouldn't hand down severe sentences to J6 protestors until that changes.
If only J6 protestors are prosecuted while others aren't, it will make political targeting worse. You embolden them when you don't put your foot down.
ANTIFA and the riots took place in Cities. Those State's laws take precedence.
Jan 6th took place in DC, Federal law takes precedence.
You are complaining of unfairness because the Federal Courts prosecuted and the Cities/States didn't. The two are not connected. Trump's AG didn't charge Federal charges to make it a Federal crime. Once again, like Hillary and Hunter why didn't Trump's Administration do something??????Meanwhile people present at J6, many who didn't even enter the capitol are being charged and spending serious time in prison.Quote:
WASHINGTON Charges have been dropped against the remaining defendants arrested in the wake of violent protests on Inauguration Day 2017.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia said in a statement Friday that they believe "evidence shows that a riot occurred on January 20, 2017, during which more than $100,000 in damage was caused," and that 21 people have pleaded guilty for their actions that day, including one felony.
"In light of the results in the cases brought to trial, however, the U.S. Attorney's Office has now moved to dismiss charges against the 39 remaining defendants in this matter," the statement said.
Dane Powell, of Tampa, Florida, pleaded guilty in April 2017 to a felony charge of assaulting a police officer. He was sentenced to four months. Twenty more protesters pleaded guilty to misdemeanor rioting, paid fines and were placed on probation.
LINK
You really should read up on what you believe. 7% have received jail time. Here is a link,
Explore NPR database of Jan. 6 Capitol riot cases and sentencing status updates : NPR
The website has the stories for everyone. They really have you worked up, you need to learn what is really happening. I am not a NPR fan, but this site goes into some depth about the people and what they did based on Court records. I
Here are the stats...
An overview of the cases so far
- Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
- Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
- Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
- The number with mixed verdicts: 42
- The number convicted on all charges: 106
- The number acquitted on all charges: 2
- Number of people sentenced: 674
- The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
- The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
- The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
You know the answers; everyone does - which is what makes this political hackery.
There are two systems of justice. Everyone sees it.
You thought they would get a slap on the wrist? That this was the same as a COVID riot in Portland? Who is living in a dream world? Everyone with a shred of common sense knew two things after January 6th.
Trump was going to be investigated and indicted
Those that did this would be made examples, they would throw the book at them.
You really thought they would just say it was political demonstration and call it a day?????
The only dead person was a protester.
I am sorry, I didn't know I wasn't speaking with a rational thinking person.
I apologize and please return to your fantasy world.
historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th?. Far cry from all of them. Median sentence 120 days.
Here you go.
An overview of the cases so far
Number of people charged, federal: 1,162
Number of people who have pleaded guilty: 679
Number of individuals who have had jury, bench, or stipulated bench trials: 150
The number with mixed verdicts: 42
The number convicted on all charges: 106
The number acquitted on all charges: 2
Number of people sentenced: 674
The percentage of people sentenced who have received prison time: 64
The median sentence for those who received prison time, in days: 120
The number of cases dismissed: 6 federal
I know what you mean. I have to pick up my truck from the mechanic tomorrow morning, drop some checks off at Remittance at our Port Northwest office then go in our Tomball office to do some monthly account reviews with analysts and talk to HR about some candidates.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:Mumbling to yourself like that and ranting about 'MAGA', you must be channeling Joe now.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:
"Now wipe your chin..."
Yes, I know Hunter says that to you after your little "art" discussions in private, but it's out of place here.
We'll be good you may get jello and they will let you wear your MAGA hat. Getting old sucks....
I can do this all night with you Old, but in the East and get up at 5 am...
But for now I am enjoying watching a replay of the Astros win. You have a great evening too.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
Context is great when the facts don't back you up. It is not what they are leading you to believe. 670ish plead guilty. Median jail time 120 days. It is not the great witch hunt.
I did misread the 64 it is percent not number. I admit when I make a mistake
You are back to channeling Joe again, I seeFLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
Context is great when the facts don't back you up. It is not what they are leading you to believe. 670ish plead guilty. Median jail time 120 days. It is not the great witch hunt.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:You are back to channeling Joe again, I seeFLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
Context is great when the facts don't back you up. It is not what they are leading you to believe. 670ish plead guilty. Median jail time 120 days. It is not the great witch hunt.
No, just don't see the outrage. Based on what happened. The number of people there. The number arrested. Number plead guilty. The percent of prison sentences and the length of those sentences. I just don't see some left wing conspiracy. That is what I mean by context. It is not over the top for storming the Capital.
If the Parties were reversed I would expect about the same.
NPR is a government run propaganda agency. They are not a reliable source of information, especially on political topics. Even if their database proved to be mostly accurate (doubtful), we have no way of knowing what information they are leaving out. Oftentimes the Left's lies are lies of omission or half truths that appear true but are not.
Context matters.
Actually, the stats you provide are quite telling: only 2 cases acquitted and only 6 with all charges dropped. The laws of probabilities should bring up some red flags, particularly with the numbers of violent criminals that routinely are released these days in Dem controlled cities. Those places are hell holes and that's why so many people are fleeing them.
Context matters.
Actually, the stats you provide are quite telling: only 2 cases acquitted and only 6 with all charges dropped. The laws of probabilities should bring up some red flags, particularly with the numbers of violent criminals that routinely are released these days in Dem controlled cities. Those places are hell holes and that's why so many people are fleeing them.
historian said:
NPR is a government run propaganda agency. They are not a reliable source of information, especially on political topics. Even if their database proved to be mostly accurate (doubtful), we have no way of knowing what information they are leaving out. Oftentimes the Left's lies ard lies of omission or half truths that appear true but are not.
Context matters.
Actually, the stats you provide are quite telling: only 2 cases acquitted and only 6 with all charges dropped. The laws of probabilities solve should bring up some red flags, particularly with the numbers of violent criminals they routinely are released these days in Dem controlled cities. Those places are hell holes and that's why so many people are fleeing them.
It is based on court records. Go to the site, you can read each individual one if you like. Yes acquittals low, But so is only 1% of who was there charged. Not everything is a conspiracy. Based on attacking Capital it looks quite restrained. I would expect more examples and we have not seen many. But you see what you want to see.
Kamala Harris publicly backed a fund to bond out rioters in 2020. 25+ people died. Thousands of cops injured. $Billions in property damage. C'mon man! You have more common sense than that.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:You are back to channeling Joe again, I seeFLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
Context is great when the facts don't back you up. It is not what they are leading you to believe. 670ish plead guilty. Median jail time 120 days. It is not the great witch hunt.
No, just don't see the outrage. Based on what happened. The number of people there. The number arrested. Number plead guilty. The percent of prison sentences and the length of those sentences. I just don't see some left wing conspiracy. That is what I mean by context. It is not over the top for storming the Capital.
If the Parties were reversed I would expect about the same.
I hope whoever is elected next President pardons every January 6th "rioter". BLMers, Antifa, and other low IQ looting Democrat animals that participated in the 2020 riots have already gotten their pardons.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
Seriously, stop and ask yourself why Trump has such a commanding lead among Republicans. And just a reminder, I am supporting DeSantis, but I do pay attention to everything, like it or no.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:You are back to channeling Joe again, I seeFLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
Context is great when the facts don't back you up. It is not what they are leading you to believe. 670ish plead guilty. Median jail time 120 days. It is not the great witch hunt.
No, just don't see the outrage. Based on what happened. The number of people there. The number arrested. Number plead guilty. The percent of prison sentences and the length of those sentences. I just don't see some left wing conspiracy. That is what I mean by context. It is not over the top for storming the Capital.
If the Parties were reversed I would expect about the same.
There is a clear and - to any honest mind - undeniable vendetta against Conservatives, especially those angered against career politicians.
J6 and Trump need to de-linked if you want to understand what is happening, and why it matters.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:Seriously, stop and ask yourself why Trump has such a commanding lead among Republicans. And just a reminder, I am supporting DeSantis, but I do pay attention to everything, like it or no.FLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:You are back to channeling Joe again, I seeFLBear5630 said:Oldbear83 said:He was looking at context. I understand that kind of thing confuses you.FLBear5630 said:historian said:FLBear5630 said:You always bring in other issues.Doc Holliday said:Dude they're throwing people in jail who didn't even enter the building.FLBear5630 said:No, it is not that theoretical. The building was closed, you trespassed. Cut and dry, not a political philosophical discussion. They only took selfies, they may get a suspended sentence. If they have proof that someone let them in and said the building was open, case dismissed. THEY WENT INSIDE A CLOSED FEDERAL BUILDING WHILE A RIOT WAS GOING ON. That is not a gray area. You are overthinking it.whiterock said:When that is the standard for one side but not the other, you have a real problem.FLBear5630 said:Once again you go to polling. What people think and what actually happened are not alway, actually rarely, the same thing. You should know this based on your background. It doesn't matter if 100% think it was a picnic.whiterock said:Your argument presumes that the whole show was a riot. Not true. Most of the people who went inside that day did not engage in the behavior you describe. The doors were open, not broken down. Once they're open, how is someone to know they were supposed to be closed? lots of videos showing demonstrators standing calmly talking to CAPO, taking direction from CAPO, staying within rope lines, etc... Sure, that's not representative of the whole picture. But neither are the photos of the hand to hand tussling with CAPO and banging at the doors.FLBear5630 said:Huge difference between arguing a point and attacking the closed door to the point the Secret Service drew weapons.whiterock said:a few. most walked around, took selfies, and left of their own accord. insurrection it was not......FLBear5630 said:whiterock said:but not in revolt, which is how they're being treated.FLBear5630 said:Dude, the J6 people deserve what they got. I watched that, it was inexcusable. They were wrong.historian said:
What our Gestapo (aka FBI) are labeling domestic terrorism is anything but. The fascists have already started jailing people randomly (J6 protestors). We have no reason your believe they won't continue this tyranny. When they call parents "domestic terrorists" for protesting the perversion they put in schools or protesting the mass murder of innocent Americans in the womb, anything is possible.
They broke into Congress and threatened elected officials. That isn't going to be a slap on the wrist, nor does the US want that.
Many were charged with "obstructing an official proceeding." Think about the precedence that sets..... You walk in. Say something the chair doesn't like. Chair adjourns the meeting over safety concerns. And you now have to hire a lawyer. I'm amazed it hasn't already happened.
Yes, some were taking selfies. Come on, you see the guys pop smoke, storm the doors, the Police are trying to keep you out of a Federal building. What do you do? I think I am going inside and take a picture???? Think about it. The only ones charged went inside. There were hundreds of selfies taken outside and nobody said a word. You really go inside? You wear combat gear with radios and go inside? You bring a Confederate Battle Flag inside?
We all saw what happened that day, you really think it is all right to go inside? They should get a ticket?
Just stand back and look at the discussion we're having. Was it a riot or not? Reasonable people can find common ground on that = sorta, in some places yes, in some places no, in all places not acceptable. But Democrats need it to be an insurrection, so it is as far as the media and law enforcement is concerned. Because the congregants were Republicans.
look at the polling. by numbers approaching 70% the American people think the riot was instigated by by federal agents. Forget the minutia of how the question was asked and margins of error, etc.....you could cut that number in half and it should still alarm you. A lot of Americans did not trust government, so they demonstrated. A riot broke out. And as a result of it all, an even larger part of the American people trust government even less. And the harsh treatment of rioters is furthering the "dual standard of justice" narrative.
the investigations/ prosecutions are the furthest thing from keystone cops. Serious business. But the decision to frame it as an insurrection and crack down harshly has been counterproductive, to say the least.
You also go into "two justice systems" and that crap when discussing individual actions. Did you break the law? Yes or no. The Capital was not open for business, any reasonable person could tell that this was not normal operations. You are mistaking staff trying to de-escalate for permission. Like it or not, the Feds can control and shut Federal land, including the Capital.
Sorry, anyone that went inside should be prosecuted. Anyone that stayed outside and did not take part in violence is good. Very simple, the only ones trying to muddy it are those with an agenda. Sorry, that is my view. Going in and putting your feet up on the Speaker of the Houses desk, when is that acceptable to any reasonable person? We break and go through windows everyday...
The polling just gives you an indicator for where you are. When one side is convinced it cannot get a fair deal, you have a serious problem. And at this point in time, the people in power are doubling down on that serious problem with highly political prosecutions of the front-runner of the opposing party.....a front-runner who is actually leading the incumbent. That of course is not dispositive in all things, but neither can you ignore it, as you consistently do.
Perceptions matter, and nowhere moreso than in politics.
Years in prison!
Contrast that to armed robbers and men committing physical/sexual assault and getting a slap on the wrist.
You're supporting unequal application of law because of your political views
Armed Robbers and sexual assault should be prosecuted fully, No argument. ANTIFA should all be prosecuted for 2020. No doubt. Every jurisdiction determines who gets prosecuted. That is the law.
You make it sound like I am saying prosecute Jan 6th and let everyone else off. I have never said that, nor do I believe it. ALL CRIMES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.
The fact that some corrupt or incompetent DAs are not prosecuting cases DOES NOT make the Jan 6th people innocent or free from prosecution. I do not get what part you don't understand. The two are not related in terms of prosecuting peoplet that broke the law on Jan 6th.
Your argument is just as bad as the corrupt and incompetent DAs, let the Jan 6th people off regardless of what they did because 2020 rioters didn't get prosecuted enough for you. If ANYONE is letting their political views make their decisions it is you.
Actually, you are making yourself sound that way. The govt has already prosecuted multiple J6 protestors, including some who broke no laws, and after imprisoning most if not all of them for months. When the discussion is about the unequal application of justice, that is the issue that needs to be addressed FIRST. On top of all the other gross injustices, the J6 protestors' constitutional rights have been repeatedly violated, especially due process.
This last post might be the first time you argued that antifa & the rest of the 2030 criminals should be prosecuted as well. It's the first I recall seeing. I doubt if that was your intention but that's what you did.
Don't even get me started on the FBI arresting people for being Christian or pro-life! Or declaring a new category of domestic terrorist: anyone who supports Trump. Meanwhile, real terrorists can easily sneak across our open border thanks to the world's top coyote: Joe Biden. There is a genuine reason that the FBI is being compared to the Gestapo.
Did you even look at the stats from Jan 6th? 7% got jail time. 64 of 829. It will probably end up at 10% when sentencing is done. Far cry from all of them.
Context is great when the facts don't back you up. It is not what they are leading you to believe. 670ish plead guilty. Median jail time 120 days. It is not the great witch hunt.
No, just don't see the outrage. Based on what happened. The number of people there. The number arrested. Number plead guilty. The percent of prison sentences and the length of those sentences. I just don't see some left wing conspiracy. That is what I mean by context. It is not over the top for storming the Capital.
If the Parties were reversed I would expect about the same.
There is a clear and - to any honest mind - undeniable vendetta against Conservatives, especially those angered against career politicians.
J6 and Trump need to de-linked if you want to understand what is happening, and why it matters.
I agree to read the data and it is what it is. In terms of the narrative that J6 is being prosecuted and Portland did not is not true. The Feds arrested and indicted in Portland. Just as they did in DC. So that is a false narrative, look at court records. Not media, not polls, court records. Facts.
The narrative that they were allowed to walk in Portland, is true Biden stepped in. It was not the Feds or some Deep State, it was Biden admin. Just like Trump let Hillary and Joe walk. Why? Trump let them all walk after running on lock her up nd is now complaining when Biden is following through on what he said. This is on Trump.
Finally, not one vote has been cast. All this commanding lead is by surveys and polls. Call me skeptical that nothing Trump does impacts his popularity. We are being led down a path.
If the Primaries bear out that Trump is sweeping through with actual electoral votes. I will be the first to say you got something.
Just am not finding proveable data to support the persecution of Conservatives by some deep state that warrants a 2nd civil war liike Doc espouses The data ain't there. That makes me suspicious. Lots of narrative, speculation and media, but the numbers are not that skewed.
Oh yes the data is there. You are just taking your cues from 'The View' instead of stepping back and asking the important questions.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I am taking my cues from the Court Records. Data is data. You guys are way more about spinning it than I am. You like playing the context and narrative thing, what is really behind it. As if you guys are "smarter" than the rest of us. If it makes you feel better, have at it.Oldbear83 said:
Oh yes the data is there. You are just taking your cues from 'The View' instead of stepping back and asking the important questions.
The data shows that the Feds arrested and prosecuted from the riots on Federal Property, not just January 6th.
But, keep thinking Big Brother is trying to get little old you and me, we are such lynchpins in the greater scheme of things right?
Start learning how to find and read data, it takes the context out of the equation. Listening to Gaetz, Brobert and Greene on NewsMax will only get you worked up, that is their goal...
See it is not a conspiracy, if the facts are in his favor, he wins. You guys are worked up over nothing, just like MAGA wants you to be.
Supreme Court Hands Trump Good News (msn.com)
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...
You are in deep denial, son.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
We will see.Oldbear83 said:
You are in deep denial, son.
I call bull***** You have not checked the actual records. You may be reviewing the opinions of others that checked the actual records but you, yourself, have not. Further up you claimed to have reviewed the court records as well. Unless you are downloading off of PACER or have sent a clerk to the various court houses, stop making such claims.FLBear5630 said:Your two facts are wrong.Oldbear83 said:
Nice try, but you are playing spin and ignoring hard facts.
Fact: Trump is crushing the GOP field right now, even though you will have a hard time finding many who really like the guy. Your fairy tales do not explain this condition;
Fact: The public is aware that the tens of thousands of clearly violent rioters from 2020 and on have received very different legal consequences than the thousand or so charged by the Feds for J6, even though the only person actually killed that day was an unarmed protester, and for all the hysterical claims from you and others there remains no credible evidence that the violence was genuinely an attempt at "insurrection" or even a riot as it is normally defined. Your fairy tale may as well have been posted by the women at The View.
I get it. You are afraid that being honest may lead to accidentally defending Trump. You would rather spit on the rights of a few hundred people who really did nothing wrong, rather than consider how much a damned hypocrite you are being.
Fact 1 - Not one vote has been cast. How can he be crushing it? (As I said numerous times, if he starts crushing primaries I will be the first to say the polls were right.
Fact 2 - Have you even checked the actual records on this??? Not what you think or feel. But the actual arrest records. In 2020 there were over 14k arrests from the riots, rightly so. Just like the Jan 6th there were 1200, rightly so. I don't differentiate between the two, they both should be prosecuted and made an example. I call BS on your they were legally in the Capital... That is just your MAGA coming out because you know your wrong...