Texas Senate passes Constitutional Carry Bill..Heads back to House.

3,606 Views | 166 Replies | Last: 24 days ago by quash
quash
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Oldbear83 said:

quash said:

Oldbear83 said:

quash said:

Oldbear83 said:

quash said:

Oldbear83 said:

quash: "The rule of law protects freedom better than tooth and claw. Tell me when it doesn't."

Prior to 1964, minorities in the U.S. were better protected by the threat of force than by law.

Just the first obvious example/
There's a difference between a poorly functioning rue of law and a functioning one that does not do better than tooth and claw.

Do you think the rule of law is overrated, too?
Not what I said. Try reading again.
Finished.

Do you think the rule of law is overrated, too?
So you 'read' but made sure to ignore.


Well, maybe you should read the thread. The poster I was dialoguing with said the rule of law was overrated. I asked if you felt the same way, too. Twice.

And here we are with you dancing around the question. Here, I'll rephrase it for you:

Do you also think the rule of law is overrated?
Quash, I notice you always refuse to defend your own position, and shimmy when anyone asks you a direct question.

I made my position clear, and am disappointed to see you - once again - try to score points rather than have a substantive discussion.

Law is valuable yes, but it is not absolute, and is historically used to oppress and protect injustice, as I observed. Like any tool, how it is used matters.
I defended my position.

Then I asked if you agreed that the rule of law was overrated. You shimmied in the face of a direct question, not me.

Sounds like you have finally agreed that it is overrated.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Oldbear83
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quash: "I defended my position."

That is not a factually accurate statement in this case.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Osodecentx
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A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.


Canon
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Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...

90sBear
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Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?
Canon
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90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
90sBear
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Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.
Canon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
90sBear
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Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.
Canon
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90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
90sBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?
Carlos Cruz
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?
I do. I think training should be mandatory for everyone whether they own a gun or not. It is always good to hear: (a) your best option, if available, is to de-escalate and avoid confrontation; (b) when non-lethal force is required; (c) when lethal force will be authorized; and (d) what constitutes unlawful escalation of force.
Canon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
90sBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.
Canon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
90sBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
90sBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I agree with quash's Kumbaya approach regarding law enforcement. The communities wanting to eliminate the police should have their wish granted immediately. We should start with the districts of Cortez, Talib, Pressley, and Omar. Pull all law enforcement (city and county) and let quash's social workers and the community organizers respond to calls for help. This plan should save many LEO lives. I like it. Let's light this candle!!!!!!!!

Let's evaluate the progress and maybe revisit after six months.
"Fear does not prevent death. It prevents life."
90sBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
I suspect he grew up shooting and thinks that is enough for his needs. Is it? I don't know. I don't know what his "extensive training" has covered or what he wants to do with his firearms. I suspect he hasn't gotten his LTC 1) because he thinks it is a way for democrats to find him and confiscate his guns and 2) he doesn't think he would get anything out of it and might not really have an interest in carrying.

Traffic accidents and fatalities are still in significant numbers across the US. I have not seen any significant efforts recently towards ratcheting up driving laws other than maybe texting laws. Would requiring a defensive driving course every few years help everyone? Maybe. But I don't see any efforts to establish that as a requirement. Humans continue to be aggressive and reckless with their driving yet we continue to tolerate it and let the courts handle the law breakers.

Mental health is a very difficult thing to deal with. I worked in the mental health field for 5 years. My wife has worked in the ER for 20 years so also sees mental health patients regularly. One big problem is many of them just flat out don't want help and we have yet to come up with a way to handle that.
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
I suspect he grew up shooting and thinks that is enough for his needs. Is it? I don't know. I don't know what his "extensive training" has covered or what he wants to do with his firearms. I suspect he hasn't gotten his LTC 1) because he thinks it is a way for democrats to find him and confiscate his guns and 2) he doesn't think he would get anything out of it and might not really have an interest in carrying.

Traffic accidents and fatalities are still in significant numbers across the US. I have not seen any significant efforts recently towards ratcheting up driving laws other than maybe texting laws. Would requiring a defensive driving course every few years help everyone? Maybe. But I don't see any efforts to establish that as a requirement. Humans continue to be aggressive and reckless with their driving yet we continue to tolerate it and let the courts handle the law breakers.

Mental health is a very difficult thing to deal with. I worked in the mental health field for 5 years. My wife has worked in the ER for 20 years so also sees mental health patients regularly. One big problem is many of them just flat out don't want help and we have yet to come up with a way to handle that.
Traffic accidents are a great jumping off point for addressing gun violence. Because insurance.

Two ways to approach this. First, carrying liability insurance for willful or negligent injury. Second, signing up for a national 2A waiver registry to declare yourself gun free to get a discount on life insurance (discountable because of the high rates of gun suicide).

Nowhere is the canard about states as the laboratories of democracy more applicable than in regard to guns. I doubt any two states have identical regulations and the difference between Oklahoma and New York is massive. States have proposed gun liability insurance but nobody that I am aware of has passed it yet. I would want something with HIPPA-like privacy involved to keep ownership data off any federal database. Just in case the perennial Republican bogeyman ever does start going door to door.

These get don't solve the problems completely, but they get us farther down the road with less restrictions to our freedoms.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
HuMcK
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This thread used to have an actual topic...
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
I suspect he grew up shooting and thinks that is enough for his needs. Is it? I don't know. I don't know what his "extensive training" has covered or what he wants to do with his firearms. I suspect he hasn't gotten his LTC 1) because he thinks it is a way for democrats to find him and confiscate his guns and 2) he doesn't think he would get anything out of it and might not really have an interest in carrying.

Traffic accidents and fatalities are still in significant numbers across the US. I have not seen any significant efforts recently towards ratcheting up driving laws other than maybe texting laws. Would requiring a defensive driving course every few years help everyone? Maybe. But I don't see any efforts to establish that as a requirement. Humans continue to be aggressive and reckless with their driving yet we continue to tolerate it and let the courts handle the law breakers.

Mental health is a very difficult thing to deal with. I worked in the mental health field for 5 years. My wife has worked in the ER for 20 years so also sees mental health patients regularly. One big problem is many of them just flat out don't want help and we have yet to come up with a way to handle that.


Just in case the perennial Republican bogeyman ever does start going door to door.



Methinks you may be a little confused about which party wants to confiscate guns. Has Joe Biden made Beto the Gun Czar yet?
"Fear does not prevent death. It prevents life."
90sBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
I suspect he grew up shooting and thinks that is enough for his needs. Is it? I don't know. I don't know what his "extensive training" has covered or what he wants to do with his firearms. I suspect he hasn't gotten his LTC 1) because he thinks it is a way for democrats to find him and confiscate his guns and 2) he doesn't think he would get anything out of it and might not really have an interest in carrying.

Traffic accidents and fatalities are still in significant numbers across the US. I have not seen any significant efforts recently towards ratcheting up driving laws other than maybe texting laws. Would requiring a defensive driving course every few years help everyone? Maybe. But I don't see any efforts to establish that as a requirement. Humans continue to be aggressive and reckless with their driving yet we continue to tolerate it and let the courts handle the law breakers.

Mental health is a very difficult thing to deal with. I worked in the mental health field for 5 years. My wife has worked in the ER for 20 years so also sees mental health patients regularly. One big problem is many of them just flat out don't want help and we have yet to come up with a way to handle that.
Traffic accidents are a great jumping off point for addressing gun violence. Because insurance.

Two ways to approach this. First, carrying liability insurance for willful or negligent injury. Second, signing up for a national 2A waiver registry to declare yourself gun free to get a discount on life insurance (discountable because of the high rates of gun suicide).

Nowhere is the canard about states as the laboratories of democracy more applicable than in regard to guns. I doubt any two states have identical regulations and the difference between Oklahoma and New York is massive. States have proposed gun liability insurance but nobody that I am aware of has passed it yet. I would want something with HIPPA-like privacy involved to keep ownership data off any federal database. Just in case the perennial Republican bogeyman ever does start going door to door.

These get don't solve the problems completely, but they get us farther down the road with less restrictions to our freedoms.
I don't know that I see gun liability insurance any time soon. Seems like something that would catch a lot of criticism just for the concept, let alone the finances. I would be interested to see it though.

In terms of the thread topic, as I said on the first page of this thread my gut reaction is I'm not a fan. I just like having the LTC course to carry in public. If you are looking for constitutional commentary I suppose I consider it to be a descendent (so to speak) of prefatory clause, "well regulated militia." If you want to carry in public, go through the training and testing.

As to the more often quoted operative clause, "shall not be infringed", the right to keep and bear arms already has limits. In fact I would be willing to bet that every poster on this board agrees with some of those limits (I'm sure we can all come up with extreme examples). Then it just becomes a matter of where your beliefs lie on the spectrum of limitations.
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:



As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
I suspect he grew up shooting and thinks that is enough for his needs. Is it? I don't know. I don't know what his "extensive training" has covered or what he wants to do with his firearms. I suspect he hasn't gotten his LTC 1) because he thinks it is a way for democrats to find him and confiscate his guns and 2) he doesn't think he would get anything out of it and might not really have an interest in carrying.

Traffic accidents and fatalities are still in significant numbers across the US. I have not seen any significant efforts recently towards ratcheting up driving laws other than maybe texting laws. Would requiring a defensive driving course every few years help everyone? Maybe. But I don't see any efforts to establish that as a requirement. Humans continue to be aggressive and reckless with their driving yet we continue to tolerate it and let the courts handle the law breakers.

Mental health is a very difficult thing to deal with. I worked in the mental health field for 5 years. My wife has worked in the ER for 20 years so also sees mental health patients regularly. One big problem is many of them just flat out don't want help and we have yet to come up with a way to handle that.


Just in case the perennial Republican bogeyman ever does start going door to door.



Methinks you may be a little confused about which party wants to confiscate guns. Has Joe Biden made Beto the Gun Czar yet?
Methinks you don't know what a bogeyman is.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
quash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

quash said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

90sBear said:

Canon said:

Osodecentx said:

A little training on gun safety would be nice before everyone starts packing

Shopper wounded when another customer's gun accidentally discharges in Walmart, DeSoto police say
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road.

Updated at 7:20 p.m.: Revised to include additional information from police.
A customer suffered minor injuries after being shot when another shopper's concealed gun accidentally discharged in a Walmart in DeSoto on Tuesday, police said.
The incident took place shortly after 5 p.m. in the Walmart Supercenter in the 900 block of West Belt Line Road, near Westmoreland Road.
Police said the gun's discharge appeared to be accidental and that the person who was shot was "slightly injured." That person was taken to a hospital for treatment.

According to police, the man whose gun went off left the store before officers arrived, but he was later identified by authorities.
Police said his gun was concealed and he did not have a license to carry a handgun, and that charges may be filed. They did not release his name.





Uh huh....see what training does for you around the 0:50 mark...


So your stance is any people who intend to carry firearms should not train in their safety and use?


My stance is pointing out one off incidents to justify your position goes both ways. His story is pointless.
Not to the person who was shot.

And your video does not demonstrate that training is useless but rather that everyone who carries, including those that carry frequently, need to always be mindful of their training. If anything, your video shows an even greater need for training for everyone - including a reminder to the trainers themselves.

As it happens I watched this video during my LTC course done by a sheriff's deputy who says it is used in their deputy training program.


Put away your straw men and emotional appeals. We're all full up here.

He posted a story to object to constitutional carry by suggesting his story would be the outcome. The response demonstrated accidents happen regardless of licensing or training and his story is just pointless fear mongering.
Not my straw man, I responded to your post and your video.

Your response was a bad one, as any LTC trainer will tell you that if you intend to carry you should train in your shooting proficiency and always be mindful of your safety checks - is it loaded, is there a bullet in the chamber, where is my finger, etc.

Your video showed that the police officer needed a reminder of his own training, not that everyone should be able to carry without any training at all. In short, your video showed the exact opposite of your intent.


You don't read a lot, do you?
You don't have a LTC do you?


Sure I do. The constitution.

You didn't have a father who trained you to shoot did you?
So that would be a "no".

That tells me your knowledge, interest, and expertise on this subject that you aren't even willing to go through a course.

My father did teach me to shoot. He also taught me by example by going through the course and getting his license.


You enjoy your name on that government list confirming there are firearms in your home. I'll enjoy my constitutional rights and exercise them with the exceptional and extensive training I've had, with my unregistered firearms.

Government licensing is absurd. Government licensing that targets you for gun grabbing Democrats is foolish.
As I said, tells me all I need to know about your expertise on this subject.

Done with the back and forth. Let me know when you are willing to educate yourself more and go through a course.
Pretty sure he just told you that he has training. As to his expertise on the subject this is a thread on Constitutional Carry, "shall not be infringed..."
My initial response to him was not regarding a constitutional debate but rather his video and comment of "what training does for you." If he thinks so little of training (as evidenced by his post) then why does he now reference his "extensive training"?
I suspect he appreciates the value of training but does not accept it as a cure-all for gun violence.

And here's why: say you make training mandatory. Then somebody with training shoots somebody. Now the gun laws have to be ratcheted up yet again. Humans are violent, you can't train that out of us. But humans in the US are committing violent crimes at rates much lower than twenty years ago, during which time the Brady law had been revoked.

When we make medical providers the gateway to mental health treatment instead of the criminal justice system we will likely reduce gun crime even further. We will definitely reduce LEO on citizen violence.
I suspect he grew up shooting and thinks that is enough for his needs. Is it? I don't know. I don't know what his "extensive training" has covered or what he wants to do with his firearms. I suspect he hasn't gotten his LTC 1) because he thinks it is a way for democrats to find him and confiscate his guns and 2) he doesn't think he would get anything out of it and might not really have an interest in carrying.

Traffic accidents and fatalities are still in significant numbers across the US. I have not seen any significant efforts recently towards ratcheting up driving laws other than maybe texting laws. Would requiring a defensive driving course every few years help everyone? Maybe. But I don't see any efforts to establish that as a requirement. Humans continue to be aggressive and reckless with their driving yet we continue to tolerate it and let the courts handle the law breakers.

Mental health is a very difficult thing to deal with. I worked in the mental health field for 5 years. My wife has worked in the ER for 20 years so also sees mental health patients regularly. One big problem is many of them just flat out don't want help and we have yet to come up with a way to handle that.
Traffic accidents are a great jumping off point for addressing gun violence. Because insurance.

Two ways to approach this. First, carrying liability insurance for willful or negligent injury. Second, signing up for a national 2A waiver registry to declare yourself gun free to get a discount on life insurance (discountable because of the high rates of gun suicide).

Nowhere is the canard about states as the laboratories of democracy more applicable than in regard to guns. I doubt any two states have identical regulations and the difference between Oklahoma and New York is massive. States have proposed gun liability insurance but nobody that I am aware of has passed it yet. I would want something with HIPPA-like privacy involved to keep ownership data off any federal database. Just in case the perennial Republican bogeyman ever does start going door to door.

These get don't solve the problems completely, but they get us farther down the road with less restrictions to our freedoms.
I don't know that I see gun liability insurance any time soon. Seems like something that would catch a lot of criticism just for the concept, let alone the finances. I would be interested to see it though.

In terms of the thread topic, as I said on the first page of this thread my gut reaction is I'm not a fan. I just like having the LTC course to carry in public. If you are looking for constitutional commentary I suppose I consider it to be a descendent (so to speak) of prefatory clause, "well regulated militia." If you want to carry in public, go through the training and testing.

As to the more often quoted operative clause, "shall not be infringed", the right to keep and bear arms already has limits. In fact I would be willing to bet that every poster on this board agrees with some of those limits (I'm sure we can all come up with extreme examples). Then it just becomes a matter of where your beliefs lie on the spectrum of limitations.
Justice Scalia said as much in Heller. And welcome to the very small club of non-binary thinkers.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
 
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