Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

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Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

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Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

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Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

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Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms.

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Yep.

TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

---

Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

---

Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

---

Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

---

Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

---

https://scienceinpoland.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C82061%2Claws-physics-billions-light-years-away-are-different-those-here.html
"Astrophysicists have found that the laws of physics in outer space are different to those in our galaxy."

Beaneater said:

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Per Richard Hanania of Columbia University, 3 possibilities:
1. Aliens visit and want to be discovered
2. Aliens visit and don't care if they are discovered or not, or
3. Aliens visit and don't want to be discovered
If there is other life, intelligent life, in the universe, then Judeo/Christian/Islam are obsolete.
1--if advanced enough to visit, and want to be discovered, they would just say hello
2--commonly the UFO 'flies away' when seen so unlikely--if they truly didn't care, they would be clearly seen/recorded
3--if advanced enough to visit, and DON'T want to be discovered, they would not be

Thus, Hanania says, aliens have not visited/UFOs are not aliens.

Overall, that sound good to me. However, I see God as amazingly creative--the huge variety of plants, animals, landscapes, etc tell me this. So, it would not surprise me that he has life/"people" on other planets. I do not believe there is anything in the Bible that says this cannot be so (or must be so).

Jim Denison, who sends out a daily email article, takes the next step & opines:
If aliens exist, Jesus made them--the Bible says ALL things were made by God.
If aliens have free will, they need a Savior. Finite beings inevitably choose evil, so they need atonement from a sinless savior, namely Jesus.
The Bible is a practical book. It doesn't say what happened to dinosaurs, or the size of the universe, and many many other valid scientific questions. We don't need to know if aliens exist to believe in/have a personal relationship with God. No biblical text says "no other life" or "yes there is other life."

In the end, the fact is no one knows for sure either way. I "like" to think we are not alone. I HOPE it works out like Star Trek, and by the time the bad aliens discover us we actually have a way of defending ourselves. Except the Borg, of course: resistance is futile.


So to the OP's questions:
1. Are they real?
2. If they are real, are they a threat?
3. What do you hope your role will be after the global conquest?

1. No one knows/but I think so
2. Some are not, some will be
3. I just want a quiet little piece of ground for moisture farming far away from the Hutts and the Sand People, big enough for a living but small enough the Empire never notices me.

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If there is other life, intelligent life, in the universe Judeo/Christian/Islam are obsolete.

TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

---

Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

---

Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

---

Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

---

Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

---

The effects, however, are local.

Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

---

Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

---

Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

---

Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

---

Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

---

The effects, however, are local.

---

If they can get here then their understanding of physics is better than ours. All over, locally, whatever.

90sBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

---

Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

---

Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

---

Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

---

Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

---

https://scienceinpoland.pap.pl/en/news/news%2C82061%2Claws-physics-billions-light-years-away-are-different-those-here.html
"Astrophysicists have found that the laws of physics in outer space are different to those in our galaxy."

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Headlines in a magazine or newspaper don't always match the text. They haven't won the Nobel yet. Their paper says that the alpha constant could be different at 1 billion years. It doesn't change the equation. Some theories of the multiverse allow for the potential possibility of different constants in different regions, but generally on scales too large to observe. The fundamental laws are the same everywhere but the way the Universe developed and cooled in different regions is such that the laws appear different. Spontaneous symmetry breaking for example as cooling occurred unevenly across the Universe.

Trying to determine the truth regarding any specific claim about UFOs can be difficult, but certain basic points of logic are useful. First, there is always a limit to what can be proven, meaning that no matter what is demonstrated, some people will continue to believe things not completely supported by the facts. Notice, for example, that investigators will usually stop once they have determined whether or not they can identify the phenomenon. The Navy videos recently released confirmed they could not identify the objects, but offered no guesses on what they could be.

Project Blue Book, the Air Force inquiry into UFOs back in the 1960s, estimated that over 90% of UFO sightings were simply natural images which were misinterpreted due to perspective, distance, or other factors. But eliminating those cases and focusing on objects which could not be explained away, there are still a limited number of possibilities, including of course military projects which are not discussed in public.

But let's talk about the favorite possibility, no matter how unlikely that aliens have visited the Earth. There are some fascinating aspects from the information we have on such sightings:

Assuming these are piloted vehicles, they don't seem to mind us watching, but they prefer small towns and remote locations
There are tons of videos and photos, but none show any clarity or detail, there always seems to be a fair distance between observer and the craft
The possibility of an advanced hologram would explain the silence, lack of heat/radiation, and impossible changes of direction and speed reported
There have been remarkably few collisions between these craft and military planes. In fact, the last such collision I ever heard of was Thomas Mantell's P-51 way back in 1948
Aerodynamics are very different from the physics outside the atmosphere. If those craft are really aliens, then their craft were deployed for use in our skies from ships stationed in space or in the sea
As cool as it seems to think of alien craft like something from Star Wars or Star Trek or some similar show, certain requirements cannot be ignored, including the need for fuel, air and water, food and a means for exercise during a long trip. There are requirements involving mass, energy, life support and other factors which remain in effect regardless of the technology level of the craft or culture
When everything is taken into account, it's more likely you will meet some of the Keebler Elves in real life than beings from another star system

quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

---

Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

---

Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

---

Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

---

Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

---

The effects, however, are local.

---

If they can get here then their understanding of physics is better than ours. All over, locally, whatever.

---

Understanding local physics does not mean you can wave away their effects, or suddenly control impossible logistics problems.

Aliens, for example, would certainly have different diets from us, meaning they have to carry all their food with them. A LOT of food considering the distance involved. Even at the speed of light, that trip is going to take years, meaning a lot of fuel and food and other supplies have to be carried.

A minor medical problem does not exist for an alien visiting Earth. By definition, any injury would run the risk of catastrophic infection given our biosphere and the abundance of germs we have here.

Communication would also be difficult. Having an advanced civilization does not make you psychic, so finding a way to talk to the humans would be tough for the visitors.

Add to that the facts that all beings make mistakes from time to time, but given the distance and complications any mistake would incur severe consequences, yet we never seem to see those from the aliens.

Just for starters.

All humans make mistakes, what if these UFOs are from another galaxy and come to gather info in a secretive manner. What if they dont need nutrition like us. They get fuel from the solar system to sustain life and travel in their space ships

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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The eyewitnesses say that is the odd deal about these things. No noticeable surface control mechanisms. I dont think one can argue any advance civilization out there can only have advanced technology as we humans on earth have dreamed up in our minds. If there are advanced civilizations out there well advanced of humans on earth, I think it somewhat ludicrous to think their technology can only be confined to cooler looking things such as seen in science fiction like star wars which are only cooler versions of our own technology we have now on earth because that is what humans here are limited to understanding right now.

---

Sorry, but Physics does not go away just because someone has a cool story.

Also, the idea that someone from a completely different world would never make mistakes in our environment is laughable.

Technology is just tools, it does not fundamentally change someone into a god.

---

Physics doesnt go away. But I'm not going claim humans of earth understand and have mastery of all there is to know about physics and how those laws operate here and elsewhere in the Milkyway.

---

Oh please.

We will know and understand local physics better than someone popping in from another solar system.

Just turn it around and apply logic.

---

Physics is universally the same throughout the universe.

---

The effects, however, are local.

---

If they can get here then their understanding of physics is better than ours. All over, locally, whatever.

---

Understanding local physics does not mean you can wave away their effects, or suddenly control impossible logistics problems.

Aliens, for example, would certainly have different diets from us, meaning they have to carry all their food with them. A LOT of food considering the distance involved. Even at the speed of light, that trip is going to take years, meaning a lot of fuel and food and other supplies have to be carried.

A minor medical problem does not exist for an alien visiting Earth. By definition, any injury would run the risk of catastrophic infection given our biosphere and the abundance of germs we have here.

Communication would also be difficult. Having an advanced civilization does not make you psychic, so finding a way to talk to the humans would be tough for the visitors.

Add to that the facts that all beings make mistakes from time to time, but given the distance and complications any mistake would incur severe consequences, yet we never seem to see those from the aliens.

Just for starters.

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I think "local conditions" fits what you are describing better than "local physics".

Arthur C. Clarke wrote in We'll Never Conquer Space, essay, 1960
Space can be mapped and crossed and occupied without definable limit; but it can never be conquered.
When our race has reached its ultimate achievements, and the stars themselves are scattered no more
widely than the seed of Adam, even then we shall still be like ants crawling on the face of the Earth. The
ants have covered the world, but have they conquered it for what do their countless colonies know of it,
or of each other? So it will be with us as we spread out from Earth, loosening the bonds of kinship and
understanding, hearing faint and belated rumors at second or third or thousandth hand of an
ever-dwindling fraction of the entire human race. Though Earth will try to keep in touch with her children,
in the end all the efforts of her archivists and historians will be defeated by time and distance, and the
sheer bulk of material. For the number of distinct human societies or nations, when our race is twice its
present age, may be far greater than the total number of all the men who have ever lived up to the present
time.

Occupy space, possibly; conquer it, no way. He also said that a sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic. Magic food , medicine, fuel and communication.

Life as we know it on earth may not be how life is anywhere else. To some degree even scientist seem to not grasp this. Our scientist tend to look at other planets and say, life as we know it can't exist there so the mark it off as uninhabitable. Hell Venus or Jupiter could in theory have a civilization almost as advanced as humans here, but we have blown it off because there is no way plants and animals of earth could survive there. I'm not saying either may btw, just using it as an illustration. We are also always searching for radio waves. I always wonder why on earth (no pun intended really) do we assume advanced civilizations or even not so much more advanced civilizations communicate using the save waves we do on earth. I think our search is probably a little too earth centric in nature. Sometimes I think scientist in this area need a philosopher or two cross examining them in their search as to why they think fir example the building blocks of life are are the same all through this galaxy or even the universe as they are on this planet.

The fact that these objects can just "disappear" without any physical evidence of flying away at high speed (sonic boom) and instantaneously appearing elsewhere miles away makes me think we are not just dealing with something other-worldly, but rather other-dimensionally, i.e. something that exists in higher dimensions.

Think of it like this: in a 2-dimensional world, a completely flat plane, where only 2-dimensional objects exists, having only length and width, objects can only move around the x and y axis (left, right, forwards, backwards; there is no "up" or "down" in the 2-d world). A 3rd dimension would be extending that 2-dimensional plane in a direction that is perpendicular to the plane (z axis). If a 2 dimensional object moved into that 3rd dimension by moving "up" or "down" along the z axis, it would move out of the 2 dimensional plane in an instant, and appear to the other objects in that plane to have instantly disappeared.

So if we take that idea and apply it to our 3-dimensional world, a 4th dimension then, would be some kind of extension of our 3-d world in a "perpendicular" or "right angle" direction from the 3-dimensional world (however that would work- our 3-dimensional existence prevents us from conceiving this, just like 2-dimensional objects could never conceive of the concept of "up" or "down"). Similarly, there is an "up" or "down" sort of speak (up "prime" or down "prime" if you want) relative to this 3-dimensional universe. Now, if a 4th-dimensional being moved into and out of the 3-dimensional world in a direction along this new "axis", it would similarly appear to us as having instantly disappeared.

Carl Sagan does a better job of explaining this in a video where he explains a conceptual 4-dimensional object, the hypercube, aka tesseract, if you want to look it up.

Just something I was thinking about. I find these objects very fascinating and thought provoking. I am fascinated about the idea that there is so much more to reality than we know, like multidimensional existence. I want to say more about all this, especially how it relates to God, Jesus, angels, fallen angels, demos, the bible, etc. but I don't want to be too long-winded here. I'll bring that up later. But to anyone who thinks that the revelation of beings of higher intelligence, such as what's behind these objects, somehow weakens the belief in God, you are too small-minded and you have no understanding. This stuff only elevates His mystery and as well as our desire to know Him as it expands our thinking and mindset about Him and ultimate reality, and it actually also makes things in the bible make more sense, imo.

PartyBear said:

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Life as we know it on earth may not be how life is anywhere else. To some degree even scientist seem to not grasp this. Our scientist tend to look at other planets and say, life as we know it can't exist there so the mark it off as uninhabitable. Hell Venus or Jupiter could in theory have a civilization almost as advanced as humans here, but we have blown it off because there is no way plants and animals of earth could survive there. I'm not saying either may btw, just using it as an illustration. We are also always searching for radio waves. I always wonder why on earth (no pun intended really) do we assume advanced civilizations or even not so much more advanced civilizations communicate using the save waves we do on earth. I think our search is probably a little too earth centric in nature. Sometimes I think scientist in this area need a philosopher or two cross examining them in their search as to why they think fir example the building blocks of life are are the same all through this galaxy or even the universe as they are on this planet.

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Venus is too hot for a carbon based life form, or most likely any other life form. The temperatures on Venus are virtually hot enough to melt lead. We know that carbon is prevalent throughout the universe. It's most likely that carbon based life forms exist in other locations under the right conditions. Are there other life forms that are not carbon based is the best question? For instance silica based life forms, which can withstand radiation.

BornAgain said:

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All humans make mistakes, what if these UFOs are from another galaxy and come to gather info in a secretive manner. What if they dont need nutrition like us. They get fuel from the solar system to sustain life and travel in their space ships

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If they were from somewhere else, it's most likely they don't have life on board. It's more likely they are locally derived phenomena. It took 4.5 billion years for Homo sapiens to arrive on the scene. It's not too likely that any other life forms out there are much more advanced than us, especially when you consider how hostile the universe is to life.

You really think that we are the most advanced civilization not just in this galaxy but in the entire universe?

PartyBear said:

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You really think that we are the most advanced civilization not just in this galaxy but in the entire universe?

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We are the most advanced ... God help us.

PartyBear said:

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You really think that we are the most advanced civilization not just in this galaxy but in the entire universe?

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I don't know. However, when it comes to any life form surviving very long in a perilous universe is not too likely. Look how many mass extinction events we've had, resets if you will, before our species evolved. Odds of finding advanced life may be much less than the odds of finding life.

What do we know about the entire universe to make one think all the infinite number of galaxies are perilous to life.? What do we know about this galaxy to lead one to think it is perilous to life.?

TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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You really think that we are the most advanced civilization not just in this galaxy but in the entire universe?

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I don't know. However, when it comes to any life form surviving very long in a perilous universe is not too likely. Look how many mass extinction events we've had, resets if you will, before our species evolved. Odds of finding advanced life may be much less than the odds of finding life.

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People don't pay much attention to how oddball our planet is, in the first place. Some acknowledge the 'goldilocks' distance from the sun, but keep in mind as well that our off-axis tilt creates seasons which are known to generate changes in our growth, and our iron-nickel core creates a magnetic field which may have prevented a number of asteroid strikes, in essence protecting life at early, vulnerable stages.

That does not touch our oxygen-rich atmosphere, which would be a poison except that here we are adapted to it.

Then there is the mix of water and land, allowing for many varieties of life in the sea, on land, and in air.

We are weird in possibly a very unique way.

PartyBear said:

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What do we know about the entire universe to make one think all the infinite number of galaxies are perilous to life.? What do we know about this galaxy to lead one to think it is perilous to life.?

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Radiation, extreme temperatures, catastrophic events.

TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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What do we know about the entire universe to make one think all the infinite number of galaxies are perilous to life.? What do we know about this galaxy to lead one to think it is perilous to life.?

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Radiation, extreme temperatures, catastrophic events.

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Yep, I don't imagine you will find much organic life anywhere near a Quasar, for example.

See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

PartyBear said:

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See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

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I didn't say there are no other life forms elsewhere in the universe. I believe there is a high probability of other life. How ubiquitous are advanced life forms is the question, which I think will be rare, when you consider the size and scale of the Universe, inherent risk of survival, and time required to evolve.

PartyBear said:

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See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

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I think a biologist would disagree with you. Life has specific meaning as far as we are concerned. A rock, for example, may be 'alive' if you frame certain words a specific way, but that does not mean the rock can seriously be said to be the same as a mammal in terms we usually use.

For practical purposes, 'Life' must be a form with which we can expect to exchange information and actions. And since we are - in this thread - discussing the phenomena of vehicles and beings with which we can interact, it follows that if these are living beings, there is a common plane of existence which allows us to see and act with those beings. Every credible case I have read or heard where someone claimed to have met one of these beings, is one where the beings are essentially humanoid, usually not even wearing gear for breathing, which means these beings are compatible with our gravity, atmosphere, and do not react adversely to bacteria, insects or plant spores. If that is correct, then it is necessary for those beings to share basic blood chemistry and immune systems with humans. If those accounts are not correct, we must ask why we do not have proper descriptions of these beings; they have not been shy in letting us see them, assuming they are what we are told by witnesses.

TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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You really think that we are the most advanced civilization not just in this galaxy but in the entire universe?

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I don't know. However, when it comes to any life form surviving very long in a perilous universe is not too likely. Look how many mass extinction events we've had, resets if you will, before our species evolved. Odds of finding advanced life may be much less than the odds of finding life.

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Look at the Drake Equation, the odds have gotten better.

TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

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I didn't say there are no other life forms elsewhere in the universe. I believe there is a high probability of other life. How ubiquitous are advanced life forms is the question, which I think will be rare, when you consider the size and scale of the Universe, inherent risk of survival, and time required to evolve.

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Again this is with a rather earth/human centric view of the types of environments life can exist in. I do not think it is necessarily true that life including advanced civilization can only exist on duplicates or extremely close to duplicates of earth. I also do not necessarily think it true that every species in the universe or even in the galaxy if others exist have to evolve on a timeline similar or the same to how it happened on earth.

PartyBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

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I didn't say there are no other life forms elsewhere in the universe. I believe there is a high probability of other life. How ubiquitous are advanced life forms is the question, which I think will be rare, when you consider the size and scale of the Universe, inherent risk of survival, and time required to evolve.

---

Again this is with a rather earth/human centric view of the types of environments life can exist in. I do not think it is necessarily true that life including advanced civilization can only exist on duplicates or extremely close to duplicates of earth. I also do not necessarily think it true that every species in the universe or even in the galaxy if others exist have to evolve on a timeline similar or the same to how it happened on earth.

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I think it is plainly necessary that any humanoid being able to walk around our planet with our gravity, germs, and other biologic conditions, must have developed in a consistent manner.

You can't wish away the necessary prerequisite steps.

Well.... at this time at least, there is no documented declassified evidence of ETs walking around on earth. Even so if there was, that would not be evidence that those ETs are the only forms of life that are well ahead of humans on earth in this galaxy or any other galaxy. Additionally if there were documented ETs from another region of the galaxy that have traveled to here, it means they have technology we are not far enough along to even begin to fathom including technology that allows them to walk around in an environment that is completely alien and harsh for them.

PartyBear said:

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Well.... at this time at least, there is no documented declassified evidence of ETs walking around on earth. Even so if there was, that would not be evidence that those ETs are the only forms of life that are well ahead of humans on earth in this galaxy or any other galaxy. Additionally if there were documented ETs from another region of the galaxy that have traveled to here, it means they have technology we are not far enough along to even begin to fathom including technology that allows them to walk around in an environment that is completely alien and harsh for them.

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First, if we can ignore claims of alien visits, then we can ignore claims of alien spacecraft, so let's use one set of rules.

Second, you can't just say "technology" to wave away the laws of Physics which apply.

Third, once we establish an environment is dangerous for a living being, the lack of protective equipment becomes essential in the credibility of the claim. Calling humans too stupid to understand does not prove the claim has any validity.

I'm not saying there haven't been alien visits. I don't know if there have been or not. I said the Pentagon has not declassified any documented ETs on the ground at least as of today. If they do and the footage shows ETs walking around not needing breathing devices and having no gravity issues, then we can discuss if those came from an earth like planet and even if they did that doesn't mean the visitors are from the only civilization out there well advanced of ours.

There however are now documented and recently declassified cases of the military encountering craft that appears to be (according the the military well advanced of anything humans can do.

PartyBear said:

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I'm not saying there haven't been alien visits. I don't know if there have been or not. I said the Pentagon has not declassified any documented ETs on the ground at least as of today. If they do and the footage shows ETs walking around not needing breathing devices and having no gravity issues, then we can discuss if those came from an earth like planet and even if they did that doesn't mean the visitors are from the only civilization out there well advanced of ours.

There however are now documented and recently declassified cases of the military encountering craft that appears to be (according the the military well advanced of anything humans can do.

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Actually, what we have are unknown images which lack enough detail to really do a proper analysis.


And no, I have not seen anything on film that is legit beyond our capability. What I have seen is craft which behave like advanced AAVs.

Has it occurred to you that maybe one reason these are declassified, is that we have moved beyond that level?

Sorry but there is no credible reason to believe we have been visited by beings from another world, much less one beyond our own tech.

If the witnesses are correct (they appear credible). The craft can vanish into thin air to the human eye and instantaneously reappear hovering 60 miles away according to radar. We don't have anything that can move that fast. And when we declassify our own stuff we don't do it like this.I would also add if we can do this why the hell are we still testing rockets and exploring Mars with a rover.

Credible witnesses can be wrong, and often are.

As to the rest, not buying it.