Vaccinated folks now angry at vaccine hestitators

10,659 Views | 196 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by 4th and Inches
Jack Bauer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Rules for thee, not for me.

These politicians don't give a **** about you.

Quote:

Two of California Gov. Gavin Newsom's children briefly attended a summer camp that was in defiance of the state's COVID-19 guidance that summer camps require children ages 2-11 to wear masks at all times.

The strange saga started Monday when an anti-Newsom school reopening group called attention to photos on social media that showed one of Newsom's sons maskless at a basketball camp with other maskless campers. The state's mask rules for children have been controversial.

"The real problem is Newsom's own family having mask choice, while he forces a different policy on every other kid in California," the account wrote in a Twitter thread that was widely shared.

Osodecentx
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.B.Katz said:

The NYTimes has an article about the tension between people who are choosing to get vaccinated and those who refuse. This says 57% of adults are fully vaccinated. Fewer than 40% are in my state.

If all you've got to say is snark and right-wing media talking points, skip this thread. If there's tension in your family, church or workplace that's worth discussing, how are you dealing with it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/health/coronavirus-vaccination-hesitancy-delta.html
I am fully vaxxed, I wear a mask when to business I'm visiting asks me to, and I encourage people to get vaccinated. I'll get the booster when my doctor advises.

However, I won't wear a mask indoors anymore. My mask wearing is for the benefit of the unvaxxed. There are 2 types of unvaxxed; those who haven't had Covid and those who will have Covid. The odds are that Covid won't kill the unvaxxed and I believe their antibodies are more durable than the antibodies obtained through vaccinations.

The benefits of being vaccinated far outweigh the potential problems. I don't argue with an anti-vaxxer because they have a 1,000 reasons why they don't want to get vaccinated and it really is their decision. However, I won't let their well being dictate my conduct anymore.

We're going to have to learn to live our lives with coronavirus.
HuMcK
How long do you want to ignore this user?
muddybrazos said:

HuMcK said:

That is what astroturfing misinformation looks like.

Top left in the pic is a tweet by a real ER Doc, the rest are right wing trolls copy/pasting to purposefully set up the exact narrative you're falling for now. Look at their handles, one of them is even a "groyper" (i.e. white nationalist). I picked 3 random accounts to look at (not the "groyper" one), couldn't actually find the screenshotted tweets but they still acknowledged them (as if it's a joke), and they are all Trump loving trolls spreading misinformation on purpose.
Thanks, I follow all based groypers so will have to add that one.

Oh yeah, I totally did Nazi that coming from you...
HuMcK
How long do you want to ignore this user?
GrowlTowel
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HuMcK said:

muddybrazos said:

HuMcK said:

That is what astroturfing misinformation looks like.

Top left in the pic is a tweet by a real ER Doc, the rest are right wing trolls copy/pasting to purposefully set up the exact narrative you're falling for now. Look at their handles, one of them is even a "groyper" (i.e. white nationalist). I picked 3 random accounts to look at (not the "groyper" one), couldn't actually find the screenshotted tweets but they still acknowledged them (as if it's a joke), and they are all Trump loving trolls spreading misinformation on purpose.
Thanks, I follow all based groypers so will have to add that one.

Oh yeah, I totally did Nazi that coming from you...
Nazi were leftists, like you.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:

Neither of those has anything to do with a partisan breakdown of vaccination rates, the second link is even from October 2020 (?).

This one does though:
Quote:

While the share of the total population that is fully vaccinated has increased for both county groups, it has increased faster in counties that voted for Biden, resulting in a widening gap. Three months ago, as of April 22, the average vaccination rate in counties that voted for Trump was 20.6% compared to 22.8% in Biden counties, yielding a relatively small gap of 2.2 percentage points. By May 11, the gap had increased to 6.5% and by July 6, 11.7%, with the average vaccination rate in Trump counties at 35% compared to 46.7% in Biden counties.

https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-red-blue-divide-in-covid-19-vaccination-rates-is-growing/

But anyway, are you vaccinated?
County based doesn't factor in voters for both candidates. Your study just assumes all people in each county are all voting for one candidate. That's bad statistics.

My data shows race based vaccinations, then I correlate race with votes.

Why are minorities not vaccinated as much as whites?
White Republicans are by far the largest unvaccinated group. They're also much more likely to be in the "definitely refuse" category, while minorities are more likely to be in the "wait and see" category.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?
Forest Bueller_bf
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

HIDALGO COUNTY, Texas (CBSDFW.COM) The La Joya Police Department issued a public health announcement after an officer approached an undocumented migrant family at Whataburger who told him Border Patrol released them because they had COVID-19.

On July 26 the police department of the small town along the Rio Grande and Mexican border shared details of the incident. They said a concerned citizen at the restaurant waved down the officer. The citizen told him about the family "coughing and sneezing without covering their mouths and not wearing face masks."

Whataburger management also told the officer that they wanted the group to leave as well due to "their disregard to other people's health."

So long as the current administration policies supports the above situation. And yes releasing immigrants into the general population during a pandemic is supporting it, shots or no shot, it's going to spread.

This is actual disregard for others.
Porteroso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?

Why do you guys project your "I don't care if muy political opposition does" on everyone else? Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

When we had measles outbreaks in 2019, it was vaccinated people that had to right the ship of antivax. You just can't count on antivaxxers to fix the problem.

I agree it should be a personal choice, but it should also be an informed one. The group of white Republicans who are the least vaxxed, are also probably the least informed. Many are even worse, misinformed. Important to fight bs with facts.
Doc Holliday
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?
Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

Because many of them hate the unvaccinated.
Canada2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.

- Aldous Huxley
Unfortunately this is 100% correct.
Porteroso
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?
Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

Because many of them hate the unvaccinated.

Yeah that's true. The fringe extremist leftists probably do, but the fringe extremist right wingers have plenty of hate going on too. Best to ignore both groups when trying to have an actual discussion.
SIC EM 94
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?

Why do you guys project your "I don't care if muy political opposition does" on everyone else? Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

When we had measles outbreaks in 2019, it was vaccinated people that had to right the ship of antivax. You just can't count on antivaxxers to fix the problem.

I agree it should be a personal choice, but it should also be an informed one. The group of white Republicans who are the least vaxxed, are also probably the least informed. Many are even worse, misinformed. Important to fight bs with facts.


Why do you refuse to address or acknowledge one of the largest groups of unvaccinated are your "brothers and sisters"? Why not post charts showing the percentage of minorities that refuse to get vaccinated? Or is it only the dirty Trumpers that matter to you and many others?
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

J.B.Katz said:

fadskier said:

J.B.Katz said:

The NYTimes has an article about the tension between people who are choosing to get vaccinated and those who refuse. This says 57% of adults are fully vaccinated. Fewer than 40% are in my state.

If all you've got to say is snark and right-wing media talking points, skip this thread. If there's tension in your family, church or workplace that's worth discussing, how are you dealing with it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/health/coronavirus-vaccination-hesitancy-delta.html

There is little doubt that the United States has reached an inflection point. According to a database maintained by The New York Times, 57 percent of Americans ages 12 and older are fully vaccinated. Eligible Americans are receiving 537,000 doses per day on average, an 84 percent decrease from the peak of 3.38 million in early April.

As a result of lagging vaccination and lifted restrictions, infections are rising. As of Sunday, the country was seeing 52,000 new cases daily, on average, a 170 percent increase over the previous two weeks. Hospitalization and death rates are increasing, too, although not as quickly.

Communities from San Francisco to Austin, Texas, are recommending that vaccinated people wear masks again in public indoor settings. Citing the spread of the more contagious Delta variant of the virus, the counties of Los Angeles and St. Louis, Mo., have ordered indoor mask mandates.

For many Americans who were vaccinated months ago, the future is beginning to look grim. Frustration is straining relations even within closely knit families.

Josh Perldeiner, 36, a public defender in Connecticut who has a 2-year-old son, was fully vaccinated by mid-May. But a close relative, who visits frequently, has refused to get the shots, although he and other family members have urged her to do so.

She recently tested positive for the virus after traveling to Florida, where hospitals are filling with Covid-19 patients. Now Mr. Perldeiner worries that his son, too young for a vaccine, may have been exposed.

"It goes beyond just putting us at risk," he said. "People with privilege are refusing the vaccine, and it's affecting our economy and perpetuating the cycle." As infections rise, he added, "I feel like we're at that same precipice as just a year ago, where people don't care if more people die."

Hospitals have become a particular flash point. Vaccination remains voluntary in most settings, and it is not required for caregivers at most hospitals and nursing homes. Many large hospital chains are just beginning to require that employees be vaccinated.
I respect people and the choices they make for their own healthcare.
Unless it's a woman who wants an abortion or to use a form of contraception you consider an "abortafacient."

Conservatives have no problem mandating healthcare choices. They just won't mandate the one that would help ensure our recovery from the pandemic.


No surprise jinx is too Intellectually dishonest to note the key distinction between abortion and forced vaccination. Only one involves ending a life.

The idea that abortion is a medical decision is humorous.


Abortion is a medical decision in the same way that the electric chair is a medical decision.
BylrFan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

J.B.Katz said:

fadskier said:

J.B.Katz said:

The NYTimes has an article about the tension between people who are choosing to get vaccinated and those who refuse. This says 57% of adults are fully vaccinated. Fewer than 40% are in my state.

If all you've got to say is snark and right-wing media talking points, skip this thread. If there's tension in your family, church or workplace that's worth discussing, how are you dealing with it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/health/coronavirus-vaccination-hesitancy-delta.html

There is little doubt that the United States has reached an inflection point. According to a database maintained by The New York Times, 57 percent of Americans ages 12 and older are fully vaccinated. Eligible Americans are receiving 537,000 doses per day on average, an 84 percent decrease from the peak of 3.38 million in early April.

As a result of lagging vaccination and lifted restrictions, infections are rising. As of Sunday, the country was seeing 52,000 new cases daily, on average, a 170 percent increase over the previous two weeks. Hospitalization and death rates are increasing, too, although not as quickly.

Communities from San Francisco to Austin, Texas, are recommending that vaccinated people wear masks again in public indoor settings. Citing the spread of the more contagious Delta variant of the virus, the counties of Los Angeles and St. Louis, Mo., have ordered indoor mask mandates.

For many Americans who were vaccinated months ago, the future is beginning to look grim. Frustration is straining relations even within closely knit families.

Josh Perldeiner, 36, a public defender in Connecticut who has a 2-year-old son, was fully vaccinated by mid-May. But a close relative, who visits frequently, has refused to get the shots, although he and other family members have urged her to do so.

She recently tested positive for the virus after traveling to Florida, where hospitals are filling with Covid-19 patients. Now Mr. Perldeiner worries that his son, too young for a vaccine, may have been exposed.

"It goes beyond just putting us at risk," he said. "People with privilege are refusing the vaccine, and it's affecting our economy and perpetuating the cycle." As infections rise, he added, "I feel like we're at that same precipice as just a year ago, where people don't care if more people die."

Hospitals have become a particular flash point. Vaccination remains voluntary in most settings, and it is not required for caregivers at most hospitals and nursing homes. Many large hospital chains are just beginning to require that employees be vaccinated.
I respect people and the choices they make for their own healthcare.
Unless it's a woman who wants an abortion or to use a form of contraception you consider an "abortafacient."

Conservatives have no problem mandating healthcare choices. They just won't mandate the one that would help ensure our recovery from the pandemic.


No surprise jinx is too Intellectually dishonest to note the key distinction between abortion and forced vaccination. **Only one involves ending a life.**

The idea that abortion is a medical decision is humorous.
technically not enforcing it can end lives in both scenarios
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?

Why do you guys project your "I don't care if muy political opposition does" on everyone else? Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

When we had measles outbreaks in 2019, it was vaccinated people that had to right the ship of antivax. You just can't count on antivaxxers to fix the problem.

I agree it should be a personal choice, but it should also be an informed one. The group of white Republicans who are the least vaxxed, are also probably the least informed. Many are even worse, misinformed. Important to fight bs with facts.


I see this on social media all the time: anti vaccine individuals talking about how whether to get vaccinated or not is an oft capitalized PERSONAL CHOICE. They seem to think that because it is a PERSONAL CHOICE that their PERSONAL CHOICE is somehow exempt from criticism based on things like, well, math. Then, they come up with arguments against being vaccinated that would not get them out of a freshman-level speech class.
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Doc Holliday said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?
Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

Because many of them hate the unvaccinated.


I wonder how true that is. It would be fascinating to see if there is a political element to the "hating" part.

I don't "hate" the unvaccinated, but I do have concern for them.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SIC EM 94 said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?

Why do you guys project your "I don't care if muy political opposition does" on everyone else? Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

When we had measles outbreaks in 2019, it was vaccinated people that had to right the ship of antivax. You just can't count on antivaxxers to fix the problem.

I agree it should be a personal choice, but it should also be an informed one. The group of white Republicans who are the least vaxxed, are also probably the least informed. Many are even worse, misinformed. Important to fight bs with facts.


Why do you refuse to address or acknowledge one of the largest groups of unvaccinated are your "brothers and sisters"? Why not post charts showing the percentage of minorities that refuse to get vaccinated? Or is it only the dirty Trumpers that matter to you and many others?
We could get close to herd immunity without vaccinating a single minority.
BaylorOkie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.B.Katz said:



If all you've got to say is snark and right-wing media talking points, skip this thread.

"...but by the fifth post of this thread I will drop liberal abortion talking points all over you."
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Canon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
D. C. Bear said:

Porteroso said:

Doc Holliday said:

HuMcK said:


I've already given you the stats. Minorities are less vaccinated than whites.

And why would you care if it's conservatives that are at risk because they're unvaccinated and Democrats who aren't at risk because they are vaccinated? What better way to achieve your political goals than to have a virus kill your political opposition?

Why do you guys project your "I don't care if muy political opposition does" on everyone else? Why would you think vaccinated people just don't care about the unvaccinated?

When we had measles outbreaks in 2019, it was vaccinated people that had to right the ship of antivax. You just can't count on antivaxxers to fix the problem.

I agree it should be a personal choice, but it should also be an informed one. The group of white Republicans who are the least vaxxed, are also probably the least informed. Many are even worse, misinformed. Important to fight bs with facts.


I see this on social media all the time: anti vaccine individuals talking about how whether to get vaccinated or not is an oft capitalized PERSONAL CHOICE. They seem to think that because it is a PERSONAL CHOICE that their PERSONAL CHOICE is somehow exempt from criticism based on things like, well, math. Then, they come up with arguments against being vaccinated that would not get them out of a freshman-level speech class.


LOLOLOLOLOL!!! You think you understand math. You chicken littles can't figure out that it's a mathematical certainty that COVID is deadly to statistically no one.

Here's a math test: Out of 7.7 billion people on earth, there have been 4.2 million deaths. What percentage of the earth has this 'pandemic' killed?

Dial in to richer and fatter populations who pay more for COVID deaths and you still get tiny numbers.

But The sky is falling....
J.B.Katz
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.

They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.

A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.

COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.

I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.

I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Rawhide said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

There is no way a poster as smart as Rawhide would fall for something like this.
Kind of like how y'all have fallen for the russian collusion hoax and that 1/6 was a real insurrection or that the summer of destruction was nothing more than peaceful protests or that that the hunter laptop story was faked and needed to suppressed? And then my favorite, that Trump told people to drink bleach.

It's not like we've ever seen the media parroting the message of their overlords before:



Try again, princess.


I was taking specifically about you. Why are you talking about others? Who is the "y'all"? BTW, I am a man. Your confusion about gender has probably gotten you into some humorous situations. It does explain your choice of names though. Sorry they closed your bar in New York,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawhide_Kid
I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.B.Katz said:

It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.

They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.

A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.

COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.

I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.

I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.


Frankly, that's a BS take.
Whiskey Pete
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Rawhide said:

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

There is no way a poster as smart as Rawhide would fall for something like this.
Kind of like how y'all have fallen for the russian collusion hoax and that 1/6 was a real insurrection or that the summer of destruction was nothing more than peaceful protests or that that the hunter laptop story was faked and needed to suppressed? And then my favorite, that Trump told people to drink bleach.

It's not like we've ever seen the media parroting the message of their overlords before:



Try again, princess.


I was taking specifically about you. Why are you talking about others? Who is the "y'all"? BTW, I am a man. Your confusion about gender has probably gotten you into some humorous situations. It does explain your choice of names though. Sorry they closed your bar in New York,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawhide_Kid
Hey Jr., not confused. You're a princess.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Not into your gender bending ways but I certainly respect your rights


I have found theres only two ways to go:
Living fast or dying slow.
I dont want to live forever.
But I will live while I'm here.
Whiskey Pete
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Not into your gender bending ways but I certainly respect your rights



LOL.... how old are you?
Mothra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.B.Katz said:

It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.

They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.

A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.

COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.

I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.

I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.


So now your position is that conservatives want another COVID outbreak? Jinx, you are a leftist nut job.
D. C. Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

J.B.Katz said:

It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.

They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.

A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.

COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.

I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.

I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.


So now your position is that conservatives want another COVID outbreak? Jinx, you are a leftist nut job.


On this we can agree.
fadskier
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.B.Katz said:

fadskier said:

J.B.Katz said:

The NYTimes has an article about the tension between people who are choosing to get vaccinated and those who refuse. This says 57% of adults are fully vaccinated. Fewer than 40% are in my state.

If all you've got to say is snark and right-wing media talking points, skip this thread. If there's tension in your family, church or workplace that's worth discussing, how are you dealing with it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/27/health/coronavirus-vaccination-hesitancy-delta.html

There is little doubt that the United States has reached an inflection point. According to a database maintained by The New York Times, 57 percent of Americans ages 12 and older are fully vaccinated. Eligible Americans are receiving 537,000 doses per day on average, an 84 percent decrease from the peak of 3.38 million in early April.

As a result of lagging vaccination and lifted restrictions, infections are rising. As of Sunday, the country was seeing 52,000 new cases daily, on average, a 170 percent increase over the previous two weeks. Hospitalization and death rates are increasing, too, although not as quickly.

Communities from San Francisco to Austin, Texas, are recommending that vaccinated people wear masks again in public indoor settings. Citing the spread of the more contagious Delta variant of the virus, the counties of Los Angeles and St. Louis, Mo., have ordered indoor mask mandates.

For many Americans who were vaccinated months ago, the future is beginning to look grim. Frustration is straining relations even within closely knit families.

Josh Perldeiner, 36, a public defender in Connecticut who has a 2-year-old son, was fully vaccinated by mid-May. But a close relative, who visits frequently, has refused to get the shots, although he and other family members have urged her to do so.

She recently tested positive for the virus after traveling to Florida, where hospitals are filling with Covid-19 patients. Now Mr. Perldeiner worries that his son, too young for a vaccine, may have been exposed.

"It goes beyond just putting us at risk," he said. "People with privilege are refusing the vaccine, and it's affecting our economy and perpetuating the cycle." As infections rise, he added, "I feel like we're at that same precipice as just a year ago, where people don't care if more people die."

Hospitals have become a particular flash point. Vaccination remains voluntary in most settings, and it is not required for caregivers at most hospitals and nursing homes. Many large hospital chains are just beginning to require that employees be vaccinated.
I respect people and the choices they make for their own healthcare.
Unless it's a woman who wants an abortion or to use a form of contraception you consider an "abortafacient."

Conservatives have no problem mandating healthcare choices. They just won't mandate the one that would help ensure our recovery from the pandemic.
Your premise is that abortion is healthcare. It is, but only in certain circumstances. If someone CHOOSES not to get vaccinated and gets Covid, that is their consequence. If a woman CHOOSES to have sex and gets pregnant, that is the consequence...and for the record, only one of those consequences end is 100% death...every time.

and also, I support free birth control so stop with your posturing and narrative...
fadskier
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.B.Katz said:

It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.

They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.

A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.

COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.

I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.

I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.
You mean like when Biden and Harris criticized the vaccine under Trump? Biden asked who would agree to get it and Harris said she wouldn't. Did you call THEM out? Or is it just when the other side does it...???
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Back on April 7, I got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine. I chose to do that because my wife works as a nurse at an assisted living center, and while I was confident of my immune system to resist COVID, I did not want to take the chance of causing someone else, especially someone elderly and with health issues, to catch the virus through my selfishness.

I still regard that decision as reasoned, based on the known facts and people my decision would affect, and without regard for who wanted me to get the shot.

That evening, what started as predictable arm soreness had spread across my shoulders and back, and I had body chills and felt very weak, with no appetite. I would contend that I suffered side effects from the vaccine, and while I did not require hospitalization, not being able to walk and being in constant pain for 12 hours would reasonably constitute significant side effects from the vaccine. Looking back, I had knee replacement surgery in January and likely my immune system was not as robust as I believed.

The side effects from my first shot naturally made me concerned about whether I should get the second dose, but the same conditions with my wife working to help people with compromised health conditions were still a fact, and it did not seem that just getting one dose would be effective against COVID when the clear direction was to get both, so on May 5, I got my second dose.

That evening, I again had body aches and chills, but not as severe as before and they only lasted for 4 or 5 hours. After May 6 I have not experienced any pains or concerns which I could say were caused by the vaccine.

I believe I can speak to some degree for both sides of the debate. There are valid reasons to be concerned about vaccines which, for all the media hype, are still considered experimental by the FDA and which have affected thousand of people in ways ranging from mild discomfort to serious health issues, to death. I will say that again - there are people who died from the vaccine. Not many relative to the general population, but thousands of people.

https://undercurrents723949620.wordpress.com/2021/05/22/how-many-have-died-from-covid-vaccines/

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

But that brings me back to the total population. The risk of side effects from the vaccine is statistically small, and if you do experience side effects, they are likely to be mild, and even - as in my case - if there are significant side effects they are unlikely to require hospitalization or have permanent consequences.

And of course, we have to weigh the risk of vaccine side effects to the risk of not taking the vaccine. As we are seeing, new COVID cases are showing up pretty much just among the people who did not get vaccinated, and those who did get COVID after vaccination are suffering much milder symptoms than those who did not. And the number of active COVID cases in the United States right now is 34.6 million.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

So by reasonable measures, we should be able to say that the average person is better off getting vaccinated for COVID.

Ultimately, I believe the most reasonable course a person can take is to read up on all the facts, then consult their personal doctor if they still have concerns. There are valid reasons to be concerned for some folks, but it's also important to understand that just because something is reported somewhere does not mean that you will experience it yourself.

I also believe the CDC needs to understand the difference between lab doctors and practicing physicians. When you want to change public behavior, you need to win over people, not treat them like lab rats without a choice. Fauci's dishonesty about masks is a good example.

Early last year, Fauci came out and said that masks did not really make a difference. He later reversed himself, strongly recommended masks for everyone, and said that he said that out of fear of a run on masks which might make it hard for doctors and nurses to get the masks they needed, but this was an incredibly stupid statement. Fauci admitted he lied to the public, and regardless of the motive it opened him up to doubt from that point on. Fauci's arrogant attitude, especially post-Trump, also puts off a lot of people and - I think - is causing some people to resist cooperating with CDC recommendations because of the way the message is sent.

At this point I believe government needs to understand that the word 'require' in connection with masks will hurt compliance. A rising number of people are refusing to wear masks now, precisely because we were told last year only a few weeks would be necessary. Whether or not masks are helpful in preventing the spread in the general public is irrelevant if anger over masks is causing some people to refuse to get the vaccine.

If the CDC really wants people to get vaccinated in the 90% range, they need to win over public support, not act like people have no choice. And political leaders - on both sides - should shut the hell up. Making the vaccines political, as Biden/Harris did last year, was incredibly stupid and the only way to recover from that is to stop pretending this is East freaking Germany.

People are going to choose for themselves. Your job, feds, is to provide facts and work to persuade, not coerce.

End of rant.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Whiskey Pete
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

J.B.Katz said:

It's a cynical political calculation of Republicans and right-wing news media pundits.

They are discouraging vaccination because they know low vaccinations rates will hamper our COVID recovery, both in terms of new cases and economic recovery as people return to full employment.

A good COVID recovery will reflect well on Biden and the Democrats in the midterms. They've promoted vaccination and the Biden admin got vaccines out to most Americans after a horrible transition where Trump pouted on the golf course and wouldn't cooperate and left no vaccines in the pipeline. Dude's still pouting.

COVID outbreaks are politically convenient for them because they trigger the need for unpopular measures like masks, which means Republicans can bash Democrats for any health-related mandates coming down the pike.

I'm sickened that my former party cares more about staying in power than about American lives. That its leaders are willing to incur tremendous costs in terms of death and ecomomic misery for all Americans means they shouldn't be leaders.

I'm losing hope that the sane Republicans like Cheney and Romney will work with Democrats to stop this result.


So now your position is that conservatives want another COVID outbreak? Jinx, you are a leftist nut job.
She's the leftist nut job's nut job
Chamberman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
4th and Inches said:


every person who had Covid is equal to vaxed.
The science is inconclusive on this
Mothra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Chamberman said:

4th and Inches said:


every person who had Covid is equal to vaxed.
The science is inconclusive on this
Actually read a new study recently that said you actually have better immunity if you have ha COVID.
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.